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sturmovik
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A320 NEO Production Begins

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:10 pm

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...-production-of-the-a320neo-family/

I searched the forums and didn't find anything on this, mods please feel free to delete if this has been posted already.

Airbus cuts first metal for the A320 NEO, the part being built is an engine pylon. Not to start an A vs B flamefest, but how far along is the 737MAX? When do you think we'll see a similar milestone on that program?

In any case, this is exciting news, and congrats to Airbus on this milestone.
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redrooster3
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting sturmovik (Thread starter):
but how far along is the 737MAX? When do you think we'll see a similar milestone on that program?

FWIW, the MAX will finalize in 2013. But Boeing has 2x more to do than Airbus. Boeing has to extend the landing gear for the engines, certify the AT winglet, and strengthen the wing. And probably much more.

Quoting sturmovik (Thread starter):
When do you think we'll see a similar milestone on that program?

2013. But Boeing is trying to "Max"imize the 737's efficiency, which is what airlines want. I don't think Airbus has modified the NEO much since they launched it 12/2010. Please correct me if im wrong.
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B777LRF
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 1):
I don't think Airbus has modified the NEO much since they launched it 12/2010. Please correct me if im wrong.

They haven't, and they're unlikely to do so either. Airbus is very keen on avoiding any mission creep, adding complications and time needed to complete the project. They're able to get away with that, because they're very confident what the finished product will look like.

Boeing, on the other hand, are not at the same stage yet. So far they've gone for a NLG extension, a reshaped tail-cone and those silly split winglets. But they haven't even finished defining the diameter of the Leap-X fan, and they may yet find they'll need to do more to have a competitive product. I'm not sure you can call it mission creep, when the aircraft hasn't been fully defined yet, but there is a risk of it becoming a necessity in order to compete.

In so many words: If you order a Neo today, you know almost exactly what you're going to get. If you order a Max, well, you're buying a set of intentions and a set of more or less loosely defined means of getting there.
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cat3dual
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:35 pm

Will MSN 1 A320 be modified to NEO spec?
 
canyonblue17
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 2):
. If you order a Max, well, you're buying a set of intentions and a set of more or less loosely defined means of getting there.

To be fair, a year or so ago you could have said the same thing about the NEO. That is why there are two parts to Research and Development. When Boeing cuts the first metal for the MAX, this will be a moot point.
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CXB77L
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting sturmovik (Thread starter):
but how far along is the 737MAX? When do you think we'll see a similar milestone on that program?

Straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD828p9Nt0U

mid 2013 - finalise configuration
2014 - design
2015 - production
2016 - first flight
2017 - EIS
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AirlineCritic
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:04 am

But how far along is the engine development (for either aircraft)?
 
bomber996
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:16 am

How exactly is Boeing planning on extending the landing gear of the 737? The 737 is a very old aircraft design and the original 737 was meant to use Low bypass turbo jets, not requiring a tall stance like the A320 with its larger bypass turbofan engines. Will they simply move the pivot point of the landing gear further away from the center line of the aircraft to lengthen the landing gear? I've heard the diameter of the engines on the MAX will be smaller than those on the NEO. Will this have a large impact on fuel savings of the aircraft? Sorry for the questions, just want to clear some things up.

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sturmovik
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:32 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 6):

But how far along is the engine development (for either aircraft)?

Since the metal being cut is for an engine pylon, I'd venture that Airbus and PW have a very clear idea of the production spec engine. I'll leave the details to someone more knowledgeable, like lightsaber perhaps. (Unrelated : we need the ability to tag members in posts so they can be dragged into discussions they'd rather avoid   )

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
I've heard the diameter of the engines on the MAX will be smaller than those on the NEO. Will this have a large impact on fuel savings of the aircraft?

The diameter, 69.4 inches at last update, is indeed smaller than that on the GTF. CFM (and Boeing) claim that this will not impact fuel burn significantly, and PW and Airbus claim otherwise. That debate will go on for a while, and flare up again over the next few years as more sales battles happen. We'll know for sure only when an airline has both types in service.
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gigneil
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:40 am

Why compare GTF size to MAX engine size? The CFM engine on the A320NEO is also larger by a fair number of inches.

NS
 
RubberJungle
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:59 am

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 3):
Will MSN 1 A320 be modified to NEO spec?

No. This article says that MSN1 will be retired and replaced:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ests-a320neo-assembly-line-373960/


...while some of the A320neo components have already flown on the A380:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...tailed-design-phase-begins-373958/
 
ghifty
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):

How exactly is Boeing planning on extending the landing gear of the 737? The 737 is a very old aircraft design and the original 737 was meant to use Low bypass turbo jets, not requiring a tall stance like the A320 with its larger bypass turbofan engines. Will they simply move the pivot point of the landing gear further away from the center line of the aircraft to lengthen the landing gear?

Some of Boeing's 737 MAX media clips and images show a small "blister" on the nose's underside. Like the A330F.
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Francoflier
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:01 am

The FG article states that the engine pylons are the first ones to undergo the manufacturing stages, rather that the usual wing box.

I was unaware the wingbox was to be modified on the NEO as well. The only wing modification I was aware of were the blended winglets and I thought those were the same as the ones developed for the OEO.
What kind of modifications would they bring to the wing box? I suppose they're light since they started with the pylons, but could that hint at further MTOW increases down the road? Or is it just a Weight Watchers once over?
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RubberJungle
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:28 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
I was unaware the wingbox was to be modified on the NEO as well.

I think the article simply means that the centre wing box is usually considered the first "metal cut" component, but not on the Neo - precisely because the wing box won't undergo any substantial modification.
 
gigneil
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:29 am

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 10):
No. This article says that MSN1 will be retired and replaced:

Yes, the Sharklets one that was delivered recently will also be the first NEO, and the testbed.

NS
 
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zeke
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:37 am

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
How exactly is Boeing planning on extending the landing gear of the 737?

They have put an external blister on the nose gear, like Airbus did withe the A332F.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
What kind of modifications would they bring to the wing box?

I suspect they have had to strengthen the wing spar, as I think the new engine will be heavier than current installations. This is basically the same reason why they have not put the GEnx or similar on the A330, it is the additional mass of the engine would require some redesign of the wing spar.
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XT6Wagon
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:09 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
What kind of modifications would they bring to the wing box? I suppose they're light since they started with the pylons, but could that hint at further MTOW increases down the road? Or is it just a Weight Watchers once over?

The engine is heavier. Sharklets add wieght, as does the structural reinforcement for the additional loads they cause. Then there is the MTOW the NEO has over the current models.
 
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sturmovik
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RE: A320 NEO Production Begins

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:54 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 14):
Yes, the Sharklets one that was delivered recently will also be the first NEO, and the testbed.

Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression the new Sharklets airplane would be used for testing only Sharklets before being delivered to an airline. Just curious.
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