Ps76
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An Old Ryanair Promise!

Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:40 pm

Hi!

I found this article which must be from a few years back about Ryanair doing transatlantic flights for £7 which I thought was pretty interesting/funny. Obviously this never happened. I'm one of the (very) few who think Michael O'Leary is a genius but what was he smoking when he said what he says in this report!

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/45023-ryanair-plans-to-fly-to-usa-for-7

Apologies if it's been posted before and feel free to delete if it has. I just thought it was interesting/funny!

Many thanks,

Pierre
 
AWACSooner
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:21 pm

Dude...it's MO'L...he always blows smoke out his @**...and the media keeps falling for it!
 
Ps76
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:33 pm

Hi!

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 1):
Dude...it's MO'L...he always blows smoke out his @**...and the media keeps falling for it!

I know what you're saying but I really think he was serious when he was saying that. I mean this was at a time when you could take a 2 hour flight on Ryanair to Eastern Europe for 2 pence! So maybe why not a 7 hour flight for 7 pounds! Ryanair sure has changed in the last few years though. Those 2 pence flights now cost 40-50 pounds! I don't know if the change was solely because of fuel prices or because of shareholder pressure when they realised they could raise fares and get much bigger profits because they would still be the cheapest option and so would hardly lose any customers.

Many thanks,

Pierre
 
irishair98
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:30 am

Michael O'leary has stated that he was going to do translantic flight in the future, but due to the economic downturn he has postponed it. to be honest i wouldn't like to see FR going across the pond at all.
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BestWestern
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:42 am

Originally he was awaiting the economic downturn to get aircraft cheaper... Since the aircraft order boom has not diminished of late, perhaps he needs to wait a little longer. A330 and 767 leases have held up also.

Although, with the lease costs of the 744 collapsing, he perhaps has a ready made answer to his problems - he could operate a corsair style product.
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Ps76
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:15 am

Hi!

The more I think about it the more I think it wouldn't be very successful. And the reason is people don't travel across the Atlantic very often in general so when they do fly they're willing to pay more. If you can fly there for 5 pounds would you go to Bremen for a short break sure. But if you could fly there for 20 pounds would you go to NY for a weekend. Probably not. And 7-8 hours with bad seat pitch and no IFE and no free meals would probably put a lot of people off too. When it's only 1 or 2 hours people are pretty much prepared to put up with anything but for 7-8 hours or longer? Plus there would be a lot more hold luggage which with the current model you'd have to pay for.

So how could Michael O Leary save on costs doing transatlantic? Not with the planes unless he bought a ton of them (unlikely especially at the start). Not with the fuel as you can't really rely on hedging. He'd have to pay his pilots and flight attendants more and put them up in hotels when they're there. He'd still need IFE and meals which people would have to pay for (either with the ticket or on the plane it doesn't really make much difference). He could save by flying to smaller airports. He could save by having only online checkin. He could save by charging for telephoning the call centre. Maybe he could save by buying an A380 and filling it with all economy seats but then you wouldn't be able to fly to a small airport as deplaning would be impossible. It doesn't look too good.

To be honest I think the line between the low cost carriers and full fare is kinda getting closer anyway, at least it seems to be in Europe with Easyjet and Ryanair.

Many thanks,

Pierre
 
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garpd
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 5):
The more I think about it the more I think it wouldn't be very successful. And the reason is people don't travel across the Atlantic very often in general so when they do fly they're willing to pay more.

Of course, the opposite could be true as well: The reason people do not fly TATL is that it is too expensive.
With smart phones and other conveniently portable electronics, there is no need for IFE anymore. On my recent LHR-ATL flight with BA, I had the ONLY PTV that was not working on the plane. Flight was full, so no changing seats. Knowing my kind of luck (all bad) I had taken my tablet on board just in case. Turns out I needed it and it proved to be all the IFE I needed.

So, one could occupy ones self on a Ryanair style TATL flight. I reckon they'd increase the seat pitch a smidgen more so as to entice passengers enough though.
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BrusselsSouth
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:11 am

As recently as last June, MOL was quoted in Belgian media as saying that he envisioned transatlantic flights out of CRL "in three years", adding that "there's no reason to not develop them".

Sorry, my source is in French: http://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/det...noncent-ses-concurrents?id=7794026

I really wonder how low fare transatlantic flights could work, even with FR. I suppose they would be purely point-to-point services (i.e. not relying on connecting traffic on either side of the pond)? With which aircraft?

The FR business model certainly generates profits on intra-Europe routes, but I can't see it being applied to long-haul routes.

Regards
BrusselsSouth
 
bennett123
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:19 am

I point that I am not clear on is this;

When he says that he is cheapest, does this mean, for example, the cheapest from London to Frankfurt, or the cheapest from Stansted to Hahn. it does make a difference.
 
Burkhard
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:24 am

MoL's vision always was to get a lot of the costs not from the fares, but from other revenues.

Many european countries now have taxes on air tickets, Germany, the UK, and these limit what can be given away. So when Germany takes a ticket tax for a TATL flight of 50€, this gives the mimumum he has to charge, even if he can cover all costs of lfying elsewhere.

Also due to this the one cent flights are gone, now the minimum I see is at 16€ per flight.
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:10 am

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
I don't know if the change was solely because of fuel prices or because of shareholder pressure when they realised they could raise fares and get much bigger profits because they would still be the cheapest option and so would hardly lose any customers.

From the UK at least I'd argue taxation (APD) has had a lot to do with it, as well as the cost of fuel.
 
boeing773W
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:32 am

This reminds me of the time around 2008 when O'Leary was discussing the planned intercontinental airline (Ryan Atlantic) with the media and said that the airline would have dirt cheap economy fares for 10 pounds, while business class would be considerably more expensive to balance it out but "would feature 'blowjobs'". You'd pay for a bj in economy but it would be free in business class...   

Check out the video here:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b5e_1214473286

[Edited 2012-07-09 04:36:03]
 
Cubsrule
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:57 pm

Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 10):
From the UK at least I'd argue taxation (APD) has had a lot to do with it, as well as the cost of fuel.

In the winter, all manner of European airlines routinely sell TATL tickets for between $100 and $200 r/t. Of course, once the taxes, surcharges and fees are added, it's more like a $700 or $800 ticket. I know FR passengers are accustomed to lots of add-ons, but that level of tax and fee "inflation" seems beyond even what FR does.
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InsideMan
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:03 pm

somewhere a while ago I read that MOL now envisions a start for Ryanair Atlantic not before 2017. Let's wait and see....

I am looking forward to the first LCC doing TATL!
 
kl911
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
I mean this was at a time when you could take a 2 hour flight on Ryanair to Eastern Europe for 2 pence!

This is still the case. I often see the 2,99 euro flights for example BUD - BGY which I often take for a weekend at lake Como, or a continueing flight to somewhere from BGY. My next flight is EIN - ACE in September, for 23 euro one way, 4,5 hour flight.
 
N172DM
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:49 pm

I doubt this would ever happen. But if it did, would they do the Transatlantic flights with a 737?

Danny

[Edited 2012-07-09 12:51:14]
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ayubogg
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:15 pm

I am a bit apprehensive about the idea of intercontinental LCCs. The idea seems interesting, I admit it; but as a consumer I am concerned that many basic services and courtesies inclusive of a Y ticket would suffer on the non-LCC carriers. I usually fly BA, DL and VS when crossing the Atlantic and if FR applies pressure to this market by offering £7 fares, I'm sure we'll quickly lose amenity kits, half-decent IFE and *gasp* complimentary 1st checked bags.

First, can anyone create a business model that would survive/work? It didn't go too well for Oasis, and as far as my aviation knowledge goes, that was the closest to a successful attempt as we've had. The costs of operation are just too high, and offering such low fares on TATL flights makes no business sense in my head.

As a flyer, the thought of making travel cheaper seems great; but we are talking now of the FR experience on 7-12 hour flights! Are we really that thrift-oriented?!?

On an unrelated note, this is my first post on A.net in probably well over three years! Been reading the forums regularly, but this is the first time in a LONG time that I can treat myself to some time to partake in the discussion. It's good to be back!  
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janbrubel
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:49 pm

It doesn't seem very likely that the "nearby" airport strategy would work across the atlantic. I remember one of the possible routes was CRL - PVD. I have lived in PVD, nice city but it isn't close too (and usually not a cheap flight away from) NYC and from a tourist / visitor point of view it isn't that close to BOS neither.
 
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mayor
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:15 am

At those fares, he'd have to run the a/c on water.......
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Ps76
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:22 am

Hi!

Many thanks for the replies. I didn't know the rise in fares in the UK was due to taxes but it kinda makes sense. I haven't noticed any other airlines like Easyjet or British Airways prices going up by a lot though but maybe that's just me not looking.

Many thanks.

P.
 
floorrunner
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:36 am

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 13):
I am looking forward to the first LCC doing TATL!

Ryannair would not be the first. It was done in the 80's by Sir Freddie Laker with his Laker Sky Train and by People Express.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:39 am

Quoting janbrubel (Reply 17):
First, can anyone create a business model that would survive/work? It didn't go too well for Oasis, and as far as my aviation knowledge goes, that was the closest to a successful attempt as we've had. The costs of operation are just too high, and offering such low fares on TATL flights makes no business sense in my head.

Also not to forget Flyglobespan who made a disasterous attempt at flying LCC transatlantic flights using an over-stretched, mismatched, botched together fleet of B737's, B757's and B767's on a route network that had more in common with a patchwork quilt. I think on average their flights were 6 hour + behind schedule. I recall one particurarly disasterous flight that routed LPL-NOC-JFK-NOC-LPL (often making unscheduled fuel stops in YQX when they swopped the B757 with a B737) where the plane (a B757 I think) was struck by lightening on final into JFK and it took them over a week to get the passengers home! One generous passenger paid for flights for about 20 of the stranded passengers to fly home to SNN on DL.

Not that this disaster could be blamed entirely on LCC operations across the Atlantic. There were clearly alot of other problems that lead to their demise but along with Oasis, they are the only one that seems to have at given it a go with some success if only for a limited time.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:53 am

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 21):
Not that this disaster could be blamed entirely on LCC operations across the Atlantic. There were clearly alot of other problems that lead to their demise but along with Oasis, they are the only one that seems to have at given it a go with some success if only for a limited time.

TS has been offering LCC transatlantic flights for 20+ years now. There have been others that have come and gone, but they seem to be the only ones who can do it profitably. With their new cabins, there will be very little differentiating TS and AC except for seat width, free alcohol and price, at least in Y.
 
Ps76
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:28 am

Hi!

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 22):

TS has been offering LCC transatlantic flights for 20+ years now. There have been others that have come and gone, but they seem to be the only ones who can do it profitably. With their new cabins, there will be very little differentiating TS and AC except for seat width, free alcohol and price, at least in Y.

This is a good point I think. Although I don't think of their product as low fares in the way Ryanair want to do it they definitely seem to offer something attractive. Just did a search flying from London to Toronto for a couple of weeks in October. Air Transat was £438 and British Airways £685. That's quite a difference and I imagine Air Canada would probably be similar to BA's price.

Regarding what you get onboard:

Onboard all our flights
Water, tea, coffee: free
Soft drinks and juices: free
Bottle of de-mineralized water: $2
Snacks (chips, chocolate and other treats): $2
Alcoholic beverages (wine, beer, cocktails, after-dinner liqueurs): $6
Comfort kit (blanket, inflatable neck pillow, eyeshade, socks, headset, and earplugs): $7

So you don't get a free pillow or alcoholic drinks but at least you get water, tea, coffee, soft drinks and juices which is fine.

To and from Europe
1 meal and breakfast or snack
Air Transat is proud to announce a new, enhanced meal service in Economy class on all flights to European destinations. Starting May 1, 2010, the airline will offer a more complete meal tray with a starter, a choice of three hot main dishes, a glass of wine and a dessert.

That meal plan sounds very similar to what you get on British Airways.

To make your flight as enjoyable as possible, we provide a wide selection of audio and video entertainment. On flights lasting over two and a half hours, we offer newly released movies and a broad selection of videos. Passengers wishing to take advantage of in-flight audiovisual entertainment may purchase Air Transat's re-usable headset for a minimal charge (free for children 11 and under). Air Transat only accepts credit card payments aboard its aircraft.

I think they have seat back screens and you might be able to use your own headphones otherwise I think they're 2 pounds which is not too much.

So overall it seems like they still offer a pleasant flight experience for quite a lot less. I think it's 1 bag of 23kg in the hold and 1 carry on plus a laptop or camera free which is quite a lot like full carriers.

Many thanks.

P.
 
PoianaMarco
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RE: An Old Ryanair Promise!

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:15 pm

I think Im not the only one thinking..: What just happend in Mr.Learys head?
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