User avatar
neutrino
Topic Author
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

CSeries For AirAsia?

Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:38 pm

Bombardier swoops on AirAsia at Silverstone summit.
Reuters. SILVERSTONE, England | Mon Jul 9, 2012 5:12am EDT

How high (or low) are the chances of the all-Airbus AirAsia picking up some CSeries?
Is Bombardier pitching a long shot?
How does the CS300 at 160 seats compare with the 180 seater A320 in seat width and pitch?
I travelled on AirAsia quite a lot and would certainly welcome any such addition to those all too familiar Airbuses.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...dier-airasia-idUSLNE86800I20120709
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:36 am

This was noted in the Bombardier C-series thread:

Bombardier CSeries Update (by CRJ900X Jun 19 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting neutrino (Thread starter):
How does the CS300 at 160 seats compare with the 180 seater A320 in seat width and pitch?

Looking at 28" pitch in the C-series. What is with the 180 in the A320? I thought AirAsia had 162 seats in their A320s with 29.5" pitch (more at exit rows) or is Seatguru wrong?

But, the comfort level might not be much different with new slimline seats. I think this is an order for Airbus to loose. I can hope for Bombardier, but I put the chances as low.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Ps76
Posts: 1015
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:10 am

Hi!

Looking at the Bombardier site they do make the C Series look extremely attractive. But personally I don't think it will happen unless Bombardier offer them a really good deal. I don't know much about it but don't Low Cost airlines rely heavily on the savings by only having one aircraft type?

And on a side note that 3-2 5 abreast seating is doing my head it! It's like the cabin is lopsided or something!

http://media.bombardiercms.com/cseries/medias/gallery/cseriesInterior/low/11.jpg

Many thanks.

P.
 
User avatar
neutrino
Topic Author
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
This was noted in the Bombardier C-series thread:

Thanks. I did not see it. Perhaps its because its way past 1am in my timezone. Better to have that cuppa coffee the next time I burn midnight oil.  
Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
And on a side note that 3-2 5 abreast seating is doing my head it! It's like the cabin is lopsided or something!

Thanks for the nice pic, but I would love the 2-seater side as it would mean 1 less person to say "excuse me" to me as I am always on the aisle seat. How I miss the good old DC-9 which I used to ride on eons ago.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
CRJ900
Posts: 1945
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:34 am

Why wouldn't AirAsia be more interested in a 150-seat version? If Indonesia have the rules regarding one FA per 50 seats, they will only need 3 FAs instead of 4 for 160 seats.

Or perhaps BBD is looking into a two or three-frame stretch of the CS300...?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 3952
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:32 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 4):


The way i read it could be interpreted two ways; either they plan on cramming 160 into the 300 or maybe offering a CS500. They weren't specific, in my mind, but I think the 500 is inevitable.
What the...?
 
User avatar
neutrino
Topic Author
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:25 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
What is with the 180 in the A320? I thought AirAsia had 162 seats in their A320s with 29.5" pitch (more at exit rows) or is Seatguru wrong?

All A320s on AirAsia are 180 seaters; 30 rows x 6 seats. Ditto for TigerAir, JetStar and CebuPacific; all of which I travelled on frequently. I believe but not definately sure that the numbers on A319s on Tiger and Cebu are 144 and 150 respectively.
Don't know about the pitch though.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
And on a side note that 3-2 5 abreast seating is doing my head it!

There were two thousand Douglas narrowbodies built in that configuration.   

Quoting neutrino (Reply 6):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
What is with the 180 in the A320? I thought AirAsia had 162 seats in their A320s with 29.5" pitch (more at exit rows) or is Seatguru wrong?

All A320s on AirAsia are 180 seaters

Do you have a link? I'm willing to accept that, but Seatguru isn't usually missing configurations.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
neutrino
Topic Author
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Do you have a link? I'm willing to accept that, but Seatguru isn't usually missing configurations.

Sure. Here you go:-
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Asia/Air_Asia_Airbus_320.php

http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/AirAsia/seatplans/A320-10/

http://www.airasia.com/my/en/flightinfo/pickaseat.page

http://www5.airasia.com/site/en/pres...e41b5b3-c0a8c85d-177e6b40-c956ca0b

edit to add this comment: Seatguru's page is a bit strange. On the layout plan, it clearly shows 180 seats; six each on rows 1 to 31 minus no. 13. But at the top paragraph's table, it shows 162 with 30 "hot seats" and 132 economy. I have used AirAsia for dozens of trips but at no time have I ever encountered the "hot seats" with the stated 21" width.

[Edited 2012-07-10 08:18:53]
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
YLWbased
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:09 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:41 pm

Quoting neutrino (Reply 8):
I have used AirAsia for dozens of trips but at no time have I ever encountered the "hot seats" with the stated 21" width.

I think that'd be the emergency exit roles, I opt for row14 everytime I fly with them (about 10 times a year).

YLWbased
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
User avatar
neutrino
Topic Author
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 9):

But the emer. seats only have greater pitch, not width. How on earth or heaven or hell for that matter could they fit 21" width seats on Y and AirAsia A320 is all-economy.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
YLWbased
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:09 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting neutrino (Reply 10):
But the emer. seats only have greater pitch, not width. How on earth or heaven or hell for that matter could they fit 21" width seats on Y and AirAsia A320 is all-economy.

Woops, I mis-read it pitch. Yes, every seat have the same width on Air Asia flights, my bad.

YLWbased
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
User avatar
neutrino
Topic Author
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 11):
Woops, I mis-read.....my bad.

Don't everyone of us do? Some more some less.  
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:29 am

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
unless Bombardier offer them a really good deal

For an Airbus stronghold like this, a huge potential entrance into a booming market and to get the program traction, I think BBD would be prepared to drop their pants and wait for the O'Leary treatment...! I really do think the CS will score big with a couple of LCC's, Air Asia may not have been an obvious one with the mammoth neo order, but others mentioned in this thread like Cebu Pacific & Tiger could be good candidates. It wont be a 737/A32S, but I think the CS will do well and there are several good "blue chip" potential clients out there Im sure BBD are courting. LATAM is one (ex F100 & A318 operator), SN Brussels (ARJ), QF Regional. I honestly think it would be a good a/c for BA ex LGW and to expand LCY too.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
There were two thousand Douglas narrowbodies built in that configuration

And the BAe 146 / ARJ (some of them anyway).
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13473
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 13):
For an Airbus stronghold like this, a huge potential entrance into a booming market and to get the program traction, I think BBD would be prepared to drop their pants and wait for the O'Leary treatment...!

But the C-Series was on offer when Air Asia ordered 200 neos, wasn't it? Other LCCs are ordering neos and MAXes by the score and yet the C-Series still fails to gain significant traction in the market.

I'm sure it will be a fine plane, but the lack of significant sales must be starting to cause sleepless nights in Canada. If they can't generate sales when Airbus and Boeing are selling A320s and 737s by the thousands, when will it sell?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:37 am

Quoting neutrino (Reply 8):
Seatguru's page is a bit strange. On the layout plan, it clearly shows 180 seats; six each on rows 1 to 31 minus no. 13. But at the top paragraph's table, it shows 162 with 30 "hot seats" and 132 economy.

That is what confused me. Thank you for the other links. Normally I can be lazy with SeatGuru and just read the numbers at the top...

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
If they can't generate sales when Airbus and Boeing are selling A320s and 737s by the thousands, when will it sell?

It is distressing, but the economics are there. If AirAsia does, as rumors say (but I doubt) order 50 C-series, it would be a HUGE boost for the program.

This is just not the time for *any* orders. So to secure the Air Baltic order is good news. That is 15 more C-series sales than I expected this year.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
aeroblogger
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:53 am

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:02 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Do you have a link? I'm willing to accept that, but Seatguru isn't usually missing configurations.

Quite contrary, SeatGuru is missing a lot of configurations from the Indian carriers.
Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
 
mptpa
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:34 am

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:04 pm

Here is a link from FlightGlobal confirming that AirAsia is in preliminary talks to acquire 100 CS300, with 160 seat layout. Seems like TF is impressed, but being cautious at the same time......

Read more here from FlightGlobal
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
So to secure the Air Baltic order is good news. That is 15 more C-series sales than I expected this year.

Just to clarify, it is an LOI. Considering Air Baltic's recent financial issues (the government had to step in and bail them out last fall) I think that financing potentially might be a stumbling point in closing this deal.

Quoting mptpa (Reply 17):
with 160 seat layout.

I think that some rows would have to be less than 28" pitch while the exit rows will obviously have to be more. As it is, 160 seats is 3 rows more than the C300's high density layout @ 30" pitch. Will be an interesting configuration.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2268
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:01 am

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
If they can't generate sales when Airbus and Boeing are selling A320s and 737s by the thousands, when will it sell?

When it flies and does what BBD promises and the inevitable teething troubles are resolved.

The A320 & 737 is such a known quantity and the airlines dont have alternates. The neo and MAX is only going to be better, even if it does not meet spec and again the airlines dont really have any real alternates (yes, I include MS21 & C919). However, not everyone will want to operate 180 seaters and there is less reason to get the -7 or A319 with an on spec CS300. Most of the current orders and deliveries are for carriers who have fleet commonality with bigger siblings.

IF Air Asia goes ahead, that will be a huge vote of confidence and will encourage others to sign up too. I am not surprised to see interest in a large order from an LCC, but I am surprised it is Air Asia.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
But the C-Series was on offer when Air Asia ordered 200 neos, wasn't it?

I guess they have to get the financing in order for one order at a time. The Airbus one is clearly of greater importance and priority.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
User avatar
neutrino
Topic Author
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting mptpa (Reply 17):
Here is a link from FlightGlobal confirming that AirAsia is in preliminary talks to acquire 100 CS300, with 160 seat layout. Seems like TF is impressed, but being cautious at the same time......


Oh, that's grrrreat. I am crossing my fingers and my toes that something will come from this. 100 or 50 or even 20 CS300 would be cool. For single aisle aircraft, I am sort of getting jaded on the A320s of AirAsia, JetStar,CebuPacific & Tiger for my regionals. The Cseries will certainly break all that monotony. Ah, the good old days when I was crisscrossing the Indonesian archipelago and the East Malaysian states of Sabah & Sarawak on the 727s, 737 jurasics & classics, DC9s, Fokkers (F27, 28, 50 & 100), DHC-6s, Casa C-212s & CN-235s, Short 330, and yes, the Namc YS-11 in the Philippines. From such a huge spread of classics to now mainly A320s with a sprinkling of 737s...sigh.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
ytz
Posts: 3036
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:21 pm

This has to be for a CS500 if it's 160 seats. I don't know how Air Asia could have dramatically lower comfort on a CS300 vs. their A320. I could see the CS300 high density layout (145 pax). But 160?
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 3952
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting neutrino (Reply 20):

You are a true enthusiast in the best senses of the word.
What the...?
 
User avatar
neutrino
Topic Author
Posts: 964
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

RE: CSeries For AirAsia?

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:09 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 22):


:D Tinkering with the avionics in the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk for the majority of a decade was my former occupation. Though in a different profession for a long time now, aerospace have always been in my blood. For airliners I prefer Boeings historically but wouldn't go out of my way to get on one as price and timing always take precedence in my choice of flight.  

Back to the topic; go, Bombardier, go go go!
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis