jetbluefan1
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JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:23 pm

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/07/10/462...e-announces-its-73rd-bluecity.html

Operates Wednesday and Saturday on the A320. Looks like the DR continues to be a goldmine for B6.
 
spiritair97
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:02 pm

Nicee! Good to see more exotic destinations
 
MaverickM11
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:10 pm

B6 would rather add a Dominican postage stamp with little to no data on passengers than anywhere domestic. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
werdywerd
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
B6 would rather add a Dominican postage stamp with little to no data on passengers than anywhere domestic. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin...

Who knows, you may hear a new domestic announcement real soon.  
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:53 pm

"B6 would rather add a Dominican postage stamp with little to no data on passengers than anywhere domestic. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin..."

Yes. Yes they would...and it seems to work for them
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
B6 would rather add a Dominican postage stamp with little to no data on passengers than anywhere domestic.

This is true, but most domestic markets are very low yielding and have plenty of competition. B6 is adding flights to where no/few US carriers fly. Smart move in my opinion -- less capacity, higher yields, competitive advantage network-wise. Has been working excellently so far.
 
werdywerd
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:32 pm

Also, NYC has the largest Dominican populations outside of the Dominican republic. These routes are all making huge money out of JFK.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
B6 would rather add a Dominican postage stamp with little to no data on passengers than anywhere domestic. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin...

It's not just the Dominican, but I get where your coming from. I think their outlook on US growth is very bleak.. if it exists. There have been so many rumors about PVD that when/if ever they do announce, it won't even be a big deal.

I think Jetblues inability to make some larger markets work with the 190 has scared them out of small-mid sized cities forever. Which is a shame, to me at least, because they actually have an aircraft that should provide flexibility to make them work.
 
airjamaica
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
Yes. Yes they would...and it seems to work for them
Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 5):
B6 is adding flights to where no/few US carriers fly. Smart move in my opinion -- less capacity, higher yields, competitive advantage network-wise. Has been working excellently so far.
Quoting werdywerd (Reply 6):
Also, NYC has the largest Dominican populations outside of the Dominican republic. These routes are all making huge money out of JFK.

Agree 100%. A very pragmatic approach by B6 to new destinations in my opinion. No need for them to fly where '' Tom Sawyers '' and '' Henny Penny '' '' want them to fly '' ..........just for flying sake.  
greenheart
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:08 am

No surprise here! AZS has been lacking a link to the U.S. ever since AA (Eagle) pulled out a few years ago. Like PSE, I imagine this is a unique niche market where B6 will do very well as it is the only option if you want to fly in!

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 7):
I think their outlook on US growth is very bleak.. if it exists. There have been so many rumors about PVD that when/if ever they do announce, it won't even be a big deal.

I think Jetblues inability to make some larger markets work with the 190 has scared them out of small-mid sized cities forever. Which is a shame, to me at least, because they actually have an aircraft that should provide flexibility to make them work.

I hate to say it, but if B6 could back and do it all over again they would have never bought the E-190 in the first place. They had all kinds of teething problems with them, let alone the added costs of adding a second wholly unrelated fleet type. Now they have capped the fleet in favor of much larger types like the A321 and A320neo. Other operators like RW/YX/F9 and US have taken similar measures too - after much initial fanfare and hype over the ability of operators to successfully serve smaller markets with the type, turns out the airlines have turned their focus back to larger markets and aircraft types.

Now, I wouldn't say this type has been a total disappointment for B6. Turns out the A320 is no longer welcome at HPN, and I doubt the A320 could get into ACK or MVY either. Now B6 is looking at serving APF, likely with the E-190. So, there certainly are some very small yet high yielding niche airports that can work for the airline thanks to the E-190. But then I see all these calls for B6 to serve more domestic cities, primarily in the Midwest, which are absolutely ridiculous. There are a handful of domestic markets left that I believe warrant B6's consideration: ATL, PHL, possibly SAT and/or ABQ (I'll explain why in a bit), and MIA if the airport can get a handle on its costs. If B6 can barely manage to make ORD and PIT work, whilst CMH and BNA quickly failed, there is absolutely no reason to suggest they serve even smaller markets in the Midwest or South like STL, MKE, DTW, MEM, MCI, etc. The problem is that B6 does not have adequate hubs to serve these types of markets - LGB is maxed out in terms of slots, not that it would work anyway, BOS is a long, thin route with marginal O&D, JFK is simply not the preferred NYC gateway once you are inside the LGA perimeter, the Florida "hubs" are typically well-served from them by other carriers. Once you get outside the LGA perimeter it's another story, which is why I could possibly see a case for mid-size markets like ABQ, SAT, and maybe even COS, where nonstop LGA service is not an option. I can't see a good case for the Northeastern WN strongholds of MHT, PVD, ALB, and ISP as B6 would simply get into a dog fight against WN on the major routes to Florida. Ditto for ACY, although obviously we are talking NK and not WN in that case. The E-190 isn't the problem, nor is B6 to blame for not trying. The problem is that most markets within the LGA perimeter adamantly prefer LGA/EWR to JFK. There is a reason there are dozens and dozens of daily flights to LGA and EWR from ORD/MDW, whilst there are a scant handful from ORD to JFK. With that in mind, take a look at how much less capacity there is compared to Chicago from places like DTW or MEM to LGA/EWR, and then imagine how very little demand there would ever be for JFK. It is hardly surprising that B6 does not and will not ever serve these markets!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
tharanga
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:23 am

Can somebody explain a bit about what this airport is all about, and why people would fly there? I read the press release (which seemed to emphasize tourism), and looked around the web a bit, but don't have a strong feel for what's there and who's going there. Looks like it's not very near any population centers.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:46 am

Quoting tharanga (Reply 10):
Can somebody explain a bit about what this airport is all about, and why people would fly there?

Small airport in the DR, all leisure, has had pretty much zero service from North America other than the odd AC/WS scheduled flight and a few charters. Lots of capacity to Europe though. Sort of the 'backpackers' answer to PUJ.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
NWADTWE16
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:23 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
But then I see all these calls for B6 to serve more domestic cities, primarily in the Midwest, which are absolutely ridiculous

Metro Detroit and Windsor have over 4 million people..add on a couple more million within 100 miles... Its not rediculous to desire B6 to serve DTW. B6 offers exceptional service, great fares and is a one stop thru JFK to their beautiful network of beaches in the carribean. Oakland county is one of the richest in the nation. People would CHOOSE B6 if they came here and marketed wisely. Until that happens the millions here have no other way to fly them...
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 7):
I think Jetblues inability to make some larger markets work with the 190 has scared them out of small-mid sized cities forever. Which is a shame, to me at least, because they actually have an aircraft that should provide flexibility to make them work.

That may well be the case, and it's too bad. I'm not buying that a 100-seat a/c can't make money from New York to a lot of domstic markets. Skybus is long gone from CMH, for instance, a tech city made for an upscale LCC.

Remember when B6 was lobbying for JFK slots in 1999-2000, they publicized their list of 40-something domestic markets they wanted to serve, including a lot of medium-size cities. I'll bet they aren't in half of those markets today. I see no reason why 3x E190's daily from JFK to say CMH, CLE, IND, DTW, STL, or ATL wouldn't work. Maybe even GSO or SDF with 2x A320 to lower CASM, since they probably wouldn't support the yields of the larger markets.

B6 botched their own effort in ATL, for instance; had they timed the flights properly and included JFK they probably would have held their own fine. 3x 190 each to JFK and BOS would probably perform fine.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 9):
The problem is that most markets within the LGA perimeter adamantly prefer LGA/EWR to JFK. There is a reason there are dozens and dozens of daily flights to LGA and EWR from ORD/MDW, whilst there are a scant handful from ORD to JFK. With that in mind, take a look at how much less capacity there is compared to Chicago from places like DTW or MEM to LGA/EWR, and then imagine how very little demand there would ever be for JFK. It is hardly surprising that B6 does not and will not ever serve these markets!

Lower fares can have an amazing effect. BUF, ROC, and SYR all send lots more pax to JFK than LGA because of B6. Back in 1981, EWR certainly was not a 'preferred' airport. But People Express made it hum, and it dawned on northern New Jersey that this airport was convenient for them. So when PE went under, EWR was a natural for successor CO's hub. But it was low fares that got the EWR ball rolling. And with aircraft packed with more seats than an EMB-190 holds.

There's still untapped domestic potential at JFK for B6, and not just to the largest markets.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
MaverickM11
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:54 pm

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 12):
People would CHOOSE B6 if they came here and marketed wisely

No they won't, and B6 knows that. They'll say thank you for the competition and low fares, we'll continue to take DL who is matching those fares and giving us points. They don't choose them in CHI.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetbluefan1
Topic Author
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 12):
Metro Detroit and Windsor have over 4 million people..add on a couple more million within 100 miles... Its not rediculous to desire B6 to serve DTW.

Your point can be applied to dozens of other markets that B6 has yet to serve. Just because a city has a large population does not mean that it needs to be in the network. B6 would rather invest its limited resource in flying BOS/NY-Florida/Caribbean/Central America. Bread and butter routes.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting NWADTWE16 (Reply 12):
People would CHOOSE B6 if they came here and marketed wisely.

See:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
No they won't, and B6 knows that. They'll say thank you for the competition and low fares, we'll continue to take DL who is matching those fares and giving us points. They don't choose them in CHI.

"...and marketed wisely" is really, with all respect, an easy out when the service inevitably doesn't succeed. It becomes "Well, I never saw an ad for them, no billboards, they just expected people to show up..." etc.

I don't agree that B6 is virtually out of markets domestically to grow in, but I think the easy ones are long since served. It may not matter, though, as I would not be a bit surprised if they are wedded and gone within the next 3-5 years.

-Dave
-Dave
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 13):
I see no reason why 3x E190's daily from JFK to say CMH, CLE, IND, DTW, STL, or ATL wouldn't work. Maybe even GSO or SDF with 2x A320 to lower CASM, since they probably wouldn't support the yields of the larger markets.

I'd almost give GSO or SDF a better chance than any of those other markets. Big airports don't market new service the way a smaller market will. They don't value or embrace it in the same way, and neither does the community.

I realize the other cities are much larger; but offering a service to 4 million people that don't care or know it exists doesn't work. Offering the same service to 1 million or even 750,000 that think its a God send should be more sustainable.
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: JetBlue To Launch JFK-AZS

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:20 am

DAB would respond very well to B6 I believe. 2 daily E190s to JFK would satisfy the market considering the fact that pax traffic is growing at a steady pace. DL has totally eliminated RJ service there. In fact, they have even gone bigger than their usual MD-88 service and they have 738s mixed with MD-88s over the summer. The upgrade in aircraft at DAB has actually seen increased LFs rather than lower. Airlines like to see load factors increase with aircraft upgrades, I think B6 may want to take another look. Not to mention that NY has the highest O & D from DAB than any other market not served nonstop from DAB.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012