TWA85
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Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:34 pm

Hello,

Both times AA operated a hub in SJC (early 90's and early 00's) AA never really had much of an international network from SJC aside from YVR, NRT, TPE and CDG. Did AA ever have any plans for routes like LGW (vs. LHR due to Bermuda II agreement), KIX, NGO, HKG or even MEX and CUN? Wasn't the whole point of AA opening a west coast hub, so AA could expand internationaly to the west, or was SJC intednded to be primarily a west coast domestic hub?
 
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fxramper
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:39 pm

CDG & TPE; I could have seen them doing a London 4x a week maybe. My uncle use to fill a month of flying doing AUS-SJC-CDG-SJC-AUS x2. How I miss the good old days.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:17 pm

AA B737-800 SJC-SAL 3-4 days per week, Could it work?
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TWA85
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:26 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 1):
My uncle use to fill a month of flying doing AUS-SJC-CDG-SJC-AUS x2. How I miss the good old days.

Was this as a passanger of as a flight crew member?

These were the good old days when AA had MUCH fewer problems than they do today. Lets all hope that AA can sometime return to these good days.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Thread starter):
Did AA ever have any plans for routes like LGW (vs. LHR due to Bermuda II agreement), KIX, NGO, HKG or even MEX and CUN?

Yes. AA intended to start SJC-LGW and SJC-GDL. Someone once posted the planned SJC-LGW schedule on A.net.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:48 pm

Quoting fxramper (Reply 1):
I could have seen them doing a London 4x a week maybe.

That would have been low low yield

Quoting fxramper (Reply 1):
AA B737-800 SJC-SAL 3-4 days per week, Could it work?

Ditto...Low low yield and adds nothing to the SJC hub
 
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:57 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 5):
Ditto...Low low yield and adds nothing to the SJC hub

What hub?

Why couldn't SJC-LHR work now?
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:02 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Thread starter):
Wasn't the whole point of AA opening a west coast hub, so AA could expand internationaly to the west, or was SJC intednded to be primarily a west coast domestic hub?

No, I do not believe so. It is possible you may be confusing AA's experiment at SJC with Delta's experiment at PDX - the latter was MUCH more robust in terms of developing a transpacific gateway for Delta; but even that period was short lived after the 90's ended.

The SJC "hub" was more of a focus-city type operation (similar to the experiments at RDU and BNA) but never designed to become more like the current cornerstone "hubs." Frankly, from what I recall, the facilities at SJC were not all that great and I think the proximity to SFO made it challenging for AA to make the hub work.

Looking at all the data points, SJCNRT and SJCYVR were really the only two "international" routes that operated over the long-term (i.e. from the late 1980's to the early 2000s) whereas the CDG and TPE experiments were fairly brief: from 01APR01 to 30SEP02.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):
Looking at all the data points, SJCNRT and SJCYVR were really the only two "international" routes that operated over the long-term (i.e. from the late 1980's to the early 2000s) whereas the CDG and TPE experiments were fairly brief: from 01APR01 to 30SEP02.

SJC-CDG and SJC-TPE lasted shorter than that. I might have been 30SEP01 that they were discontinued, not 02. I thought it was October 2001 when they were discontinued. They lasted six months.

SJC-NRT started in 1991 IIRC and was discontinued in Oct. 2006.

I think the only reason AA kept SJC-YVR for several years after off-loading most SJC west coast routes to Reno Air was because they didn't transfer the international route authority to QQ.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):
Frankly, from what I recall, the facilities at SJC were not all that great

Yes, but they are excellent now that Terminal B has opened. That wouldn't be an issue now.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):

The SJC "hub" was more of a focus-city type operation (similar to the experiments at RDU and BNA) but never designed to become more like the current cornerstone "hubs.

Actually to the contrary. AA had huge plans for SJC 1989 on and was intended to be as big as UAL at SFO or LAX (unless one counts those as focus cities). At SJC's peak they had a a few big banks of arrivals and departures that included DC-10s, MD-80s, 757s, MD-11 and lots of prop Eagle flights.

There were many reasons for the demise, obviously the dot com bust but also in that every connection SJC had from any city in the west more or less also had nonstop service on WN or AS (why fly SAN to PDX via SJC or SNA to SMF via SJC when you could go nonstop?) . Seems AA didn't really consider that.

Seeing 12 years after the bust and you have solid Silicone Valley firms like Apple, Yahoo!, Facebook and Google (that didn't exist or didn't have the travel power they do now in 2000)I wonder if indeed it would now work for AA to rebuild SJC again, skip "inter-west hub" concept and try and mirror more what UA has at SFO and offer at very least LHR and NRT.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Thread starter):
Did AA ever have any plans for routes like LGW (vs. LHR due to Bermuda II agreement), KIX, NGO, HKG or even MEX and CUN?
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
Yes. AA intended to start SJC-LGW and SJC-GDL. Someone once posted the planned SJC-LGW schedule on A.net.

American originally wanted to fly SJC-LGW but because Bermuda II limited the number of cities that were eligible to have flights to London, and it was determined that SJC was not coterminal to SFO, dropped their plans to launch SJC-LGW and went with CDG.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
Why couldn't SJC-LHR work now?

It may be an issue of cannibalizing SFO. There absolutely is a market for an SJC-LHR flight, for O/D and connections to Europe and India. BA's 787-800 would be the perfect aircraft. The issue really comes down to whether LHR-SJC is a better use of a slot than say, LHR-ICN (or any number of other major markets).
 
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fxramper
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:41 pm

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 3):
Was this as a passanger of as a flight crew member?

He was hired out of college in 1978 and has been at AA the entire time driving a jet.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
. AA intended to start SJC-LGW

I said London because I recall they wanted to do Gatwick out of SJC.   
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 5):
Ditto...Low low yield and adds nothing to the SJC hub

What hub?.. SJC-SAL would be an O/D route. Salvadorians in Bay area would use it as an alternate to TA SFO-SAL.
SJC-Mexico routes are pretty much O/D too, not hub routes.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting TWA85 (Thread starter):
Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?  

Unless something drastic changes, no. AA has very few P2P routes left. Who knows what they'll do in restructuring... I honestly think AA dumping most their P2P routes was not smart, then again I'm not an airline exec (but then again, they're in Ch11 for some reason or another)
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:03 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 12):
What hub?.. SJC-SAL would be an O/D route.

You fly routes for the value the route brings to the hub. A nonbusiness OD market with low yields adds NOTHING to the value of the SJC hub or any hub for that matter.
 
chrisair
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:36 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):
Frankly, from what I recall, the facilities at SJC were not all that great

AA was one of the first airlines into the new (at the time) terminal A. They moved over with USAir when it opened. USAir left then WN came in. The terminal facility was actually pretty nice at the time, compared to C, and where AA was, while originally temporary, wasn't bad. The WN/US area was pretty tight from the get go.

The international double wide shack was a bit of a problem, though.

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 9):
Silicone Valley

Wrong silicone. Silicone Valley is in the San Fernando Valley (i.e. Burbank, Chatsworth, Encino etc) where the main export is porn.  

Silicon Valley is the South Bay Area, near SJC, centered around Sunnyvale (my hometown), Santa Clara, Mountain View etc.
 
tommy767
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 9):
Actually to the contrary. AA had huge plans for SJC 1989 on and was intended to be as big as UAL at SFO or LAX (unless one counts those as focus cities). At SJC's peak they had a a few big banks of arrivals and departures that included DC-10s, MD-80s, 757s, MD-11 and lots of prop Eagle flights.

Silicon Valley was BOOMING back then. AA was being quite ahead of the times by trying to make a hub there to compete with UA at SFO. Well, we all know who won out that battle.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
Unless something drastic changes, no. AA has very few P2P routes left. Who knows what they'll do in restructuring... I honestly think AA dumping most their P2P routes was not smart, then again I'm not an airline exec (but then again, they're in Ch11 for some reason or another)

The P2P routes didn't put AA in BK. It was short sighted decisions by upper management over a long period of time that plagued employees that were used to having their cake and eating it too (not hating on them, AA at one point was an AMAZING place to work.) This was of course undermined by high costs, large cuts, and limited growth during the early/mid 2000s. Not good.

But the P2P routes in the early and mid 2000s were really quite impressive and likely made money -- primarily at RDU, SJC, AUS, FLL, LGA, and BOS (back then SJU and STL were also hubs.) I remember the RDU 2nd build up after the JI liquidation. That lasted through the late 2000s as AA even went so far as to operate AUS-RDU-LGA in 2007. Once AA stepped out of RDU, DL jumped in.

My favs were the nerd bird routes: SJC/SEA-AUS. Feels like so long ago when AA was operating them.
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ckfred
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:51 pm

Back before CP was purchased by AC, AA's plan was to funnel people into YVR to connect with CP's Asian network. Now, it wouldn't have had the connecting opportunities of UA at SFO or NW, between its Asian departures out of MSP and SEA, but AA and CP had service to YVR for more than just the hubs. If I remember correctly, YVR's terminal map was in American Way magazine and the paper schedules.

I think SJC was more of a hub for north-south traffic, as well as connecting north-south traffic to larger cities east of the Rockies.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 16):
My favs were the nerd bird routes: SJC/SEA-AUS. Feels like so long ago when AA was operating them.

AA only flew SEA-AUS for a very short time. It does well for AS now, as is common for a lot of routes that AA dropped.

SJC-AUS did last much longer, of course. I think AA had as many as four daily flights on that route at one time, including with the 757.
 
tommy767
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:59 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 18):

SJC-AUS did last much longer, of course. I think AA had as many as four daily flights on that route at one time, including with the 757.

IIRC, the 757 was on AUS-SJC in 2007/2008. It lasted a while.

2008 was a real game changer for AA. The ex-TW 757s were sold off and the A300s were returned. They downsized the hell out of BOS, STL, SJU, AUS, BOS, LGA, and RDU. SJC was already a spoke by that time.
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):
SJC was already a spoke by that time.

Yeah, it was about ~2005 that AA really gutted SJC. That's when HNL, OGG, BOS and JFK were discontinued. LAS (one flight), NRT, SNA, SAN and AUS lasted longer but are gone now. SNA was the most recent SJC destination to be canned by AA.
 
mikesairways
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:29 pm

And all thats left is 2x ORD, 5 DFW and a few LAX. Sad to see. I remember sitting at the Terminal C observation deck watching AA after AA after AA. Now its WN and AS (not complaining, both are great airlines). But do miss the variety in aircraft. 737, RJ, Airbus, MD80/90; repeat...

[Edited 2012-07-11 10:29:46]
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IrishAyes
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
SJC-CDG and SJC-TPE lasted shorter than that. I might have been 30SEP01 that they were discontinued, not 02. I thought it was October 2001 when they were discontinued. They lasted six months.

Whoops - I think you're right. My source told me that it was 30SEP02, but that data seemed incorrect to me off the bat anyway. I frankly don't even recall ever knowing about the SJCTPE route operating at the time (and I have been following this information since the mid-90's) so it had to have been 2001, too short lived to make a lot of noise, I suppose.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
I think the only reason AA kept SJC-YVR for several years after off-loading most SJC west coast routes to Reno Air was because they didn't transfer the international route authority to QQ.

Well, there was also the relationships between AA and CP that was important. But I am seeing here that SJCYVR was actually discontinued on 29SEP96, long predating the closure of the AA hub at SJC. Or am I missing something?

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 9):
Actually to the contrary. AA had huge plans for SJC 1989 on and was intended to be as big as UAL at SFO or LAX (unless one counts those as focus cities).

Yeah, I consider LAX a focus city for UA. SFO, on the other hand, I guess depends on the scale of UA's hub at SFO (in context) back in the late 80's/early 90's, which I know nothing about. If indeed it was as robust then as it is now, then certainly you may be on to something.

However, as far as I know, AA did not ever have grandiose plans to turn SJC into a major international west coast gateway. Again, DL at PDX is the only concrete example i can think of in terms of a legacy US carrier that proceeded with plans to build up a major TPAC operation that was eventually dismantled.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
Unless something drastic changes, no. AA has very few P2P routes left. Who knows what they'll do in restructuring... I honestly think AA dumping most their P2P routes was not smart, then again I'm not an airline exec (but then again, they're in Ch11 for some reason or another)

Sigh. Yes, that has sadly become reality with AA, and it seems unlikely to change soon unless they merge with another carrier. To them, it is all about chasing the higher revenue in premium markets rather than market share alone, but to me, "cornerstone strategy" sounds a lot more like "strategy of backing one into a corner" but who am I to judge?

Lots of moving parts going on at AA and I am sure we will see some drastic changes at some point or another.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):
But I am seeing here that SJCYVR was actually discontinued on 29SEP96, long predating the closure of the AA hub at SJC. Or am I missing something?

That sounds about right. What I meant is that AA kept SJC-YVR themselves after they offloaded all the other west coast routes to QQ. QQ had SJC-SEA/PDX/LAX/SAN/SNA, etc but AA kept SJC-YVR. I wasn't equating that to AA's final gutting of SJC after buying QQ.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):
so it had to have been 2001, too short lived to make a lot of noise, I suppose.

Actually one of my co-workers went to TPE on business then and said SJC-TPE was always full. He got on it in one direction and it was full; he got routed TPE-NRT-SJC the other because TPE-SJC was booked out in Business Class. He couldn't even get on the flight. That tells me that SJC-TPE actually was doing well.

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 21):
But do miss the variety in aircraft. 737, RJ, Airbus, MD80/90; repeat...

Don't forget the 777, 763, 762, 757 and MD-90s that AA flew for at least a short time at SJC. They did the 762 to JFK (and maybe BOS); 763 to CDG; 777 to NRT and TPE of course; plenty of 757s all over (even SJC-SNA) and some ex-QQ MD-90s for awhile.

Those were the days!
 
tommy767
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 20):
Yeah, it was about ~2005 that AA really gutted SJC.

Not long after that AA also gutted SFO. Back in 2005 they flew SFO-SNA/BOS/HNL and a few others.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):
Yeah, I consider LAX a focus city for UA.

Technically, it's a hub. It's been so since 1999. Skywest does a ton of regional flying from LAX with United.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
plenty of 757s all over (even SJC-SNA)

When did AA fly the 757 on SJC-SNA?
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codc10
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):

Yeah, I consider LAX a focus city for UA.

With somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 daily flights, I guess it would be a pretty massive focus city.  
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:29 pm

Does AA have more international plans for SJC? Maybe they should complete 1 west coast hub before considering a 2nd one.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:30 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 24):

When did AA fly the 757 on SJC-SNA?

LOL such a question shows how old these birds are and how long they've been in the fleet. So that said I can say for sure in 1990 (maybe 1989) but perhaps other years as well.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:37 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 24):
When did AA fly the 757 on SJC-SNA?

2000, at least. I had jumpseat authorization for a few weeks with AA and did that route on a 757 in December 2000.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
Actually one of my co-workers went to TPE on business then and said SJC-TPE was always full. He got on it in one direction and it was full; he got routed TPE-NRT-SJC the other because TPE-SJC was booked out in Business Class. He couldn't even get on the flight. That tells me that SJC-TPE actually was doing well.

This may have been true pre 9/11, but AA pretty much stated that the flight was bleeding cash in the weeks during the aftermath of the attacks, and they literally announced its closure not even a month after.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business.../09/25/17467/American-Airlines.htm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 25):
With somewhere in the neighborhood of 250 daily flights, I guess it would be a pretty massive focus city.  
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 24):
Technically, it's a hub. It's been so since 1999. Skywest does a ton of regional flying from LAX with United.

I suppose so. Looking at the data, I suppose that because it is the "smallest" of the UA hubs (before CLE), I characterized it more as a focus city, but UA's ops at LAX are larger than that of AA's, so I guess if AA categorizes it as a "hub" then UA deserves the same status.

Thanks for pointing that out  
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tommy767
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 27):

Based on the interiors, they look like they've been around since the mid 80s but I can assure you, the oldest AA 757 is about 1 year older than UA's oldest

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 28):


Geez, my how the mighty have fallen. AA flew a 757 on SNA-SJC in 2000??
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
tommy767
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:58 pm

http://www.departedflights.com/AA070201p86.html

This August 2001 timetable should give us a little more insight on the AA SJC presence:

AUS: 1x 738, 1x M80, 2x 757
BOS: 4x 757 (SFO got the 762s)
CDG: 1x 763
DEN: 3x M80
DFW: 4x 757, 6x M80
HNL: 1x 757
JFK: 1x 738, 1x 757, 1x 762 (wow on the variation.)
LAS: 5x M80
LAX: 7x M80, 3x 738
MIA: 1x 738 (does anybody remember them even flying this route???)
NRT: 1x 777
OGG: 1x 757
ORD: 7x 738
PDX: 3x S80
PHX: 3x S80
SAN: 5x M80
SEA: 3x M80
SNA: 1x 757, 5x 738, 1x M80 (WOW!)
STL: 1x M80
TPE: 1x 777

TOTAL: 74 flights a day.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 31):
MIA: 1x 738 (does anybody remember them even flying this route???)

Yes, they started it the same day they started SJC-OGG. It only lasted about six months.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 31):
PDX: 3x S80

AA had already announced this was being discontinued (along with SNA-SEA) before 9/11 hit.
 
mikesairways
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
Don't forget the 777, 763, 762, 757 and MD-90s that AA flew for at least a short time at SJC. They did the 762 to JFK (and maybe BOS); 763 to CDG; 777 to NRT and TPE of course; plenty of 757s all over (even SJC-SNA) and some ex-QQ MD-90s for awhile.

Oh yes of course, I was referring more to today. Yes, indeed, those were the days.

MIA: 1x 738 (does anybody remember them even flying this route???)

Yes, they started it the same day they started SJC-OGG. It only lasted about six months.

I think it was even 757 for a short time as well, arrived into SJC around 4:30 if I recall correctly.

I did the 757 to SNA - ERJ to LAX was weight restricted, so they bumped me up front. Nice ride.
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
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aal151heavy
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 33):
MIA: 1x 738 (does anybody remember them even flying this route???)

I flew SJC-MIA in March 2001, but it was in a 757. The flight was very empty, pretty much everyone had their own rows.

I also flew SJC-CDG-SJC in late April, right after AA started service. Once again, both flights were very empty and we all had our own rows. It was not a good sign for both routes.

Here is a souveneir from my CDG-SJC flight. I had the captain sign it and I had it on my wall for a while. A pretty neat SJC history.



Also wanted to share this AA SJC route map with you guys. It was part of the press release when SJC-TPE and CDG got annouced in Sept 2000.



Ben
 
warden145
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:16 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 26):
Does AA have more international plans for SJC? Maybe they should complete 1 west coast hub before considering a 2nd one.

AFAIK AA has permanently given up on SJC as anything other than a spoke; they're only operating flights to DFW and ORD at this point, and I highly doubt that's going to be changing unless one or both routes are reduced or cut altogether. Even if (aviation gods forbid) AA and AS merge, the new entity would probably gut SJC just like AA did after buying first AirCal and later Reno Air. This thread is more about plans AA had in the past, since I guess AA really wanted to make a go of making SJC a viable hub in the '90's.

FWIW when I was a kid in the early to mid 90's, I flew SJC-LAX on a monthly basis...first on AA, then on QQ. At first, AA was running ex-AirCal 737-200's on the route, and later moved to MD-80's. I did get to fly on a 757 on the route once    (one of only four times I've ever had the pleasure of a 757 flight).

Even though SJC isn't my home airport anymore (I'm a 15 minute drive from SFO, vs 1 hour plus to SJC or OAK), I still miss Reno Air...

[Edited 2012-07-15 01:21:22]

[Edited 2012-07-15 01:22:48]
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
ckfred
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting mikesairways (Reply 21):
And all thats left is 2x ORD, 5 DFW and a few LAX. Sad to see. I remember sitting at the Terminal C observation deck watching AA after AA after AA. Now its WN and AS (not complaining, both are great airlines). But do miss the variety in aircraft. 737, RJ, Airbus, MD80/90; repeat...

Before the first draw down in the early 90s, I think most of AA's flights between ORD and SJC were either DC-10s or 767s.

Quoting warden145 (Reply 35):
AFAIK AA has permanently given up on SJC as anything other than a spoke; they're only operating flights to DFW and ORD at this point, and I highly doubt that's going to be changing unless one or both routes are reduced or cut altogether. Even if (aviation gods forbid) AA and AS merge, the new entity would probably gut SJC just like AA did after buying first AirCal and later Reno Air. This thread is more about plans AA had in the past, since I guess AA really wanted to make a go of making SJC a viable hub in the '90's.

Remember that what led to the first gutting of SJC after the Air Cal merger was the recession of the early 1990s coupled with WN's entry into the north-south market. After WN, about the only legacy carrier who decided to battle WN was UA, with the Shuttle. Much of the PSA route system that US got with the merger disappeared. DL cut back most of the WN flying that didn't go through SLC.

The gutting after the QQ merger was mainly due to the collapse of the tech and dot.com sectors. Those dot.com executives, according to an AA friend of mine, were flying first class, booking at the last minute, because they were flush with cash after their IPOs. When the stock market collapsed, and the companies couldn't turn profits, the flying disappeared. Tech was in the same situation. After the massive spending before Y2K, most everyone was happy with their hardware and software for several years. The recession led to very low levels of tech spending, meaning significant cutbacks in travel.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 22):
Well, there was also the relationships between AA and CP that was important. But I am seeing here that SJCYVR was actually discontinued on 29SEP96, long predating the closure of the AA hub at SJC. Or am I missing something?
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):
That sounds about right. What I meant is that AA kept SJC-YVR themselves after they offloaded all the other west coast routes to QQ. QQ had SJC-SEA/PDX/LAX/SAN/SNA, etc but AA kept SJC-YVR. I wasn't equating that to AA's final gutting of SJC after buying QQ
Quoting aal151heavy (Reply 34):
Also wanted to share this AA SJC route map with you guys. It was part of the press release when SJC-TPE and CDG got annouced in Sept 2000

Remember that AA had two chances to make SJC-YVR work, well SJC in general. They had a chance when they took over OC and again after taking over QQ, both times the airline stated bad timing and economics, which IMHO was poor management, but both times AA bought two decent carriers, to try and bring the west coast fold to AA, but what AA failed to ever figure out, is that a person flying SEA-SAN, does not wish to connect in SJC or anywhere for that matter. I think the only route AA ever flew Pacific Northwest to So Cal was SEA-SNA, right?
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 37):
I think the only route AA ever flew Pacific Northwest to So Cal was SEA-SNA, right?

Yes, to the best of my recollection that is correct. AA never did like LAX-SEA, at least not post-QQ.
 
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legacyins
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 38):
Yes, to the best of my recollection that is correct. AA never did like LAX-SEA, at least not post-QQ.

according to their route map,they dd.


http://www.airliners.net/uf/11161/phpFdOflO.jpeg
 
jfk777
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 31):
This August 2001 timetable should give us a little more insight on the AA SJC presence:AUS: 1x 738, 1x M80, 2x 757BOS: 4x 757 (SFO got the 762s)CDG: 1x 763DEN: 3x M80DFW: 4x 757, 6x M80HNL: 1x 757JFK: 1x 738, 1x 757, 1x 762 (wow on the variation.)LAS: 5x M80LAX: 7x M80, 3x 738MIA: 1x 738 (does anybody remember them even flying this route???)NRT: 1x 777OGG: 1x 757ORD: 7x 738PDX: 3x S80PHX: 3x S80SAN: 5x M80SEA: 3x M80SNA: 1x 757, 5x 738, 1x M80 (WOW!)STL: 1x M80 TPE: 1x 777TOTAL: 74 flights a day.

9/11 of 2001 put the kabash on AA's expansion at San Jose. The internet crash of the same time didn't help either.
 
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:36 am

Quoting legacyins (Reply 39):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 38):
Yes, to the best of my recollection that is correct. AA never did like LAX-SEA, at least not post-QQ.

according to their route map,they dd.


http://www.airliners.net/uf/11161/ph....jpeg

That does not show that AA flew SEA-LAX non-stop. You posted the link to a route map showing SJC destinations.
 
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legacyins
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:04 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 41):

My appologise, I misread.
 
laca773
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RE: Did AA Have More International Plans For SJC?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:55 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 23):

Don't forget the 777, 763, 762, 757 and MD-90s that AA flew for at least a short time at SJC. They did the 762 to JFK (and maybe BOS); 763 to CDG; 777 to NRT and TPE of course; plenty of 757s all over (even SJC-SNA) and some ex-QQ MD-90s for awhile.

Those were the days!

Those were the days! AA did fly the 762 on SJC-BOS after they flew the M11s for quite sometime. Then the 762ERs, 757s.

SNA-SJC had an evening 757 flight I took on the 2nd of January after the Air Cal merger. I remember it very well as the flight attendants liked and ended up treating me to the captains steak dinner he didn't want before we landed.
This route was also flown with quite a few M90s after the merger with QQ. QQ got those birds specifically to fly in and out of SNA for some reason (other than the noise abatement rules and issues.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 31):

This August 2001 timetable should give us a little more insight on the AA SJC presence:

Thanks for posting this, Tommy.
I think another obstacle AA had in the SJC hub was the right size a/c. They were so against flying the M87s they got in the QQ merger (as well as the M90s) and the 733s they got from Air Cal. The M87/733s were the right size a/c for many of the routes out of SJC, not M80s on some of these routes that had multiple frequencies. I can see why AA wanted to get rid of the BaE 146s and those comfy 73S, but the other a/c were flown by Air Cal and Reno Air for a reason which I feel AA obviously didn't see (the same can be said about AA & TW's 717s.).

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