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BreninTW
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737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:00 am

According to this video Boeing has a life-size replica of the 737MAX on show at Farmborough.

The winglet is shown briefly in the video.
 
ghifty
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:52 am

There's a pic up on Randy Tinseth's blog, as well.

Gives you a good sense of just how *not* small winglets are.
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skipness1E
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:31 am

It's behind the Korean B739, looks like a normal B737 winglet with a strake beneath. Is it markedly taller than the current version? I didn't get that impression, mind you it was at ground level so could be wrong.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:51 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
There's a pic up on Randy Tinseth's blog, as well.
http://boeingblogs.com/randy/
 
spiritair97
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:32 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 3):
Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
There's a pic up on Randy Tinseth's blog, as well.
http://boeingblogs.com/randy/

Holy crap thats big! I'd compare that to the 767 winglets!
 
hiflyeras
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 4):
Holy crap thats big! I'd compare that to the 767 winglets!

It also appears more of a 'sharklet'-type look as opposed to a 'winglet'....similar to what you might see on some Airbus a/c but on steriods.
 
ouboy79
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
It also appears more of a 'sharklet'-type look as opposed to a 'winglet'....similar to what you might see on some Airbus a/c but on steriods.

More so an evolution of the MD-11 winglet IMO. The "sharklet" marketing name is just annoying. Its a winglet. :-P
 
cargolex
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:54 pm

There's one thing that's been bugging me about this new winglet, and I hope that somebody can shed some light on this.

With the lower section of the winglet extended so far down, what happens if a situation like this develops:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paulo Santos - Aerospray



That's obviously a very extreme case, but with the winglet extended considerably downward, it wouldn't take as dramatic an angle for the wing to contact the ground.

Is the lower section of the winglet designed to break away?

[Edited 2012-07-11 09:56:48]
 
CM
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:02 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 6):
More so an evolution of the MD-11 winglet IMO

Not really. The MD-11 winglet has a very small lower "feather", which is little more than a VG to control flow at the tip. The MAX lower feather is an actual lifting airfoil intended to increase the effective span of the wing. It makes a significant improvement to the L/D of the wing, which is where the added performance and efficiency is gained.

MD-11 Winglet:


737 MAX Winglet


Quoting cargolex (Reply 7):
Is the lower section of the winglet designed to break away?

Yes.

[Edited 2012-07-11 10:03:34]
 
UAL777UK
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:19 pm

I thought it was Farnboroough not Farnburrow  

Anyway, looking forward to seeing that winglet attached to the max in the not too distant future and of course getting on a 787!
 
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:24 pm

This site needs a "like" button!  
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 9):
I thought it was Farnboroough

Haven't you added an extra "o"?
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seabosdca
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting cargolex (Reply 7):
With the lower section of the winglet extended so far down, what happens if a situation like this develops:

I would worry more about careless driving on the ramp. I think that's why the lower part of the MD-11 winglet has the red edge.
 
kdhurst380
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 9):

I thought it was Farnboroough not Farnburrow  

It is indeed NOT pronounced as the latter, I was in the show yesterday and Monday and I heard all the Americans finish the word with the 'O' sound as opposed to the 'Ugh', which is incorrect. It's a name, not a word!

I'm from Farnborough so I get quite defensive! :P

Saw the winglet too, and I'm not keen, not aesthetically pleasing at all, but then making aeroplanes look pretty is not the primary goal of the manufacturers.

[Edited 2012-07-11 11:13:12]
 
spiritair97
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:16 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 13):
Saw the winglet too, and I'm not keen, not aesthetically pleasing at all, but then making aeroplanes look pretty is not the primary goal of the manufacturers.

I agree, it's not good looking at all. I like the shape of the top part, but the bottom part looks like the blades the Ancient Spartans had on the wheels of their chariots in battle.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 6):
More so an evolution of the MD-11 winglet IMO

yah, not even close. Most are missing that this is an extremely "3D" device instead of simply a couple new airfoil sections stuck on the end of the wing. Be really interesting to know exactly how critical the shape of that merge between the upper and lower sections are as its seems quite agressively shaped. Might be the result of the mere merge of the two sections or it might be the key to the who thing working much better than the current winglets.
 
ouboy79
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting CM (Reply 8):
Not really. The MD-11 winglet has a very small lower "feather", which is little more than a VG to control flow at the tip. The MAX lower feather is an actual lifting airfoil intended to increase the effective span of the wing. It makes a significant improvement to the L/D of the wing, which is where the added performance and efficiency is gained.

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking the lower feather was bigger than what it actually is. It's been a few years since I've seen one.  
Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 15):
yah, not even close.

Thanks for not being too big of a douche. :-P
 
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CARST
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:01 pm

I love the shape of the new MAX winglet. Do you think Boeing or APB might offer it in this form or in a smaller version to modify NGs and/or classics?

If this new form is a real improvement in terms of efficiency, a smaller and lighter version, optimized for the NG wing could be developed in my opinion.
 
CM
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 16):
It's been a few years since I've seen one.

LOL! Yes, something which probably still chaps the hide of any former MD sales guys who surf these sites. I remember when we were designing the 777; internally, we were worried the MD-11 would be the real competitor for the 777 (not so much the A340). In the end, neither turned out to be competitive, but the MD-11 was in fact the least of our worries. Probably symptomatic of an overall misjudging of Airbus by Boeing that only really ended when we watched the A330 eclipse the 767. Safe to say, nobody is ignoring or underestimating Airbus today!   
 
md80fanatic
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:17 pm

MD-11 .... been there, done that (decades ago).

Of course they don't look the same, manufacturing processes have changed since then. However the reason for putting on the lower winglet, on both aircraft, are/were exactly the same (to keep high pressure air from slipping around the wingtip to the low pressure topside).
 
MountainFlyer
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 2):
Is it markedly taller than the current version?
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 4):

Holy crap thats big! I'd compare that to the 767 winglets!

For some reason I get the idea the upper portion is actually the same or even slightly smaller than the existing winglets. I could be wrong, and I have no technical data to prove or disprove it.

I know it's difficult to tell from the pictures alone, especially with different perspectives.


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ER757
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 14):
the bottom part looks like the blades the Ancient Spartans had on the wheels of their chariots in battle.

Waiting for the jousting between the Max and the NEO on the taxiways  
Quoting CARST (Reply 17):
I love the shape of the new MAX winglet.

I like it too - at least it will be something different to watch for when spotting. The endless procession of today's 737's and A320's is getting old.
 
trnswrld
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 4):
Holy crap thats big! I'd compare that to the 767 winglets!

Interesting, because to me it almost looks tiny in that picture especially compared to the guy standing next to it. No way is that even close to the size of a 767 winglet. Have you seen a 767 winglet? its taller than the tail of a CRJ7 lol.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 2):
It's behind the Korean B739, looks like a normal B737 winglet with a strake beneath

I disagree with this as well. The top portion to me anyway looks very different from the current 737/757/767 style winglet. Looks raked back more and seems to be much skinnier (and pointy towards the top.
 
CM
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:46 pm

Quoting md80fanatic (Reply 19):
Of course they don't look the same, manufacturing processes have changed since then.

The difference in appearance has nothing to do with manufacturing processes. Function drives form... the two devices have very different functions and therefore very different forms.

Quoting md80fanatic (Reply 19):
However the reason for putting on the lower winglet, on both aircraft, are/were exactly the same (to keep high pressure air from slipping around the wingtip to the low pressure topside).

Not the case at all. The 737 lower feather is all about distributing lift over a greater span to reduce induced drag from the wing. It is a L/D feature, not a tip vortex control feature.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:08 pm

Man is that thing sweet looking! Are there any pics floating around of the BBJ that is testing them?
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Tbone354
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:25 pm

Agreed. It looks very cool. I am certain there is an aerodynamic reason behind this though. Also I learned how to pronounce Qatar. Had no idea is was pronounced "cutter". Much like Cooper River is pronounced Cupa River in Charleston, SC.
 
virgin747
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting cargolex (Reply 7):
There's one thing that's been bugging me about this new winglet, and I hope that somebody can shed some light on this.

With the lower section of the winglet extended so far down, what happens if a situation like this develops:

If memory serves me correctly when that Lufthansa Airbus smacked its wing on the ground, the bottom portion of the wingtip fence just bent inwards.
 
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting cargolex (Reply 7):
With the lower section of the winglet extended so far down, what happens if a situation like this develops:

Winglet manufacturer sells more spare parts. And it has to be designed to break away.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 12):
I would worry more about careless driving on the ramp. I think that's why the lower part of the MD-11 winglet has the red edge.

See above.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:15 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 9):
I thought it was Farnboroough not Farnburrow
!

Yeah that gave me a laugh !

Also " Cutter Airways" for Qatar  
 
cal764
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:59 pm

K so where the lights, or has that yet to be determined?
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:17 pm

Quoting cal764 (Reply 29):
K so where the lights, or has that yet to be determined?

Its just a replica, I dont think it would need lights on it yet.
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
railker
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:29 am

For those wondering about size, here's some numbers for everyone, courtesy of our favorite B737 site:

http://www.b737.org.uk/winglets.htm

737NG Winglets: [...] 8 feet long and 4 feet in width at the base, narrowing to approximately two feet at the tip. [...] add approximately 5 feet to the airplane's total wingspan [...] Increased weight to the airplane for modifying wing and installing winglets is about 480 pounds.

737MAX Winglets: The AT Winglets measure 8 feet from root to top of winglet and a total of 9 feet 7 inches from bottom of lower tip to top of higher tip. The top portion is 8 feet 3 inches and the bottom portion is 4 feet 5.8 inches. The ground clearance of the bottom tip is 10 feet 2 inches.

Gotta say regardless, it looks pretty awesome!
 
aeropiggot
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting CM (Reply 23):
Not the case at all. The 737 lower feather is all about distributing lift over a greater span to reduce induced drag from the wing. It is a L/D feature, not a tip vortex control feature.


Very true, but you cannot ignore the strength of the tip vortex, which cause the lift vector to rotate in the free stream direction, this thus results in a drag component (drag due to Lift), hence the term induced drag. The effective lift distribution over the wing, is also taken into account in the aswald span efficiency factor "e". So I guess my point is if you can reduce the strength of the tip vortex, you can reduce the induce drag, and maximise the L/D ratio.
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ghifty
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:01 am

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 28):
Also " Cutter Airways" for Qatar

Is it "cutter" or "cut-tar"?  
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pilotanthony
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RE: 737MAX Winglet -- Life-size Replica At Farnborough

Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:44 am

Yes Qatar - pronounced Cat-tar! and those new MAX winglets look smaller than the current ones, in height!

Quoting ghifty (Reply 33):
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