audidudi
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Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:41 pm

I just heard a news report of a crash at Le Castellet Airport, located next to the Paul Ricard Circuit, near Marseille. The report stated that three Americans were on board, two men and one woman, and were killed. I have no further info at this time.

[Edited 2012-07-13 08:53:38]
 
 
spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:58 pm

Interesting how this occurs on Friday the Thirteenth..............

Either way, extremely sad and I hope for the best from this.
 
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zeke
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting audidudi (Thread starter):
I have no further info at this time.

N823GA - GIV

Not a good result.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 3):
N823GA - GIV

The article states that it was a Mystere Falcon. Not a Gulfstream.
 
gulfstream650
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 4):

The article states that it was a Mystere Falcon. Not a Gulfstream.

There are conflicting reports although there are plenty of tweets stating that it was the below Gulfstream IV (lovely paint job) which was on a ferry flight. All three victims were US citizens.

Here is the spec sheet of N823GA http://www.ujet.com/fleet/N823GA/n823ga.pdf - noticed that it has been flying quite regularly to France lately so could tie-in to reports that it was not a Falcon.



[Edited 2012-07-13 09:17:19]

[Edited 2012-07-13 09:19:23]

[Edited 2012-07-13 09:19:50]
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falkerker
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:19 pm

Any ideas (even rumors) of the cause of the accident?
 
spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:21 pm

MSNBC is saying it was a Mustere Falcon 20 with a 60, 30, and 24 year old on baord.
CNN is saying it was a Gulfstream with a 51, 3, and 24 year old on board.
Dailymail is saying Gulfstream with 61, 30, and 24 year old on board
Yahoo news says it was a GIV with 6 onboard.

The article below I believe has it right.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/w...h-kills-three-americans-in-france/
 
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zeke
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting falkerker (Reply 6):
Any ideas (even rumors) of the cause of the accident?

Just loaded onto aviation safety network http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20120713-0
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spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
Just loaded onto aviation safety network http://aviation-safety.net/database/...713-0

How does a plane just break into two pieces out of nowhere?
 
citationjet
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 9):
How does a plane just break into two pieces out of nowhere?

When it impacts the ground.

The article says: "The airplane broke in two as it crashed near the runway end. One part ended up in a small pond, probably at the end of runway 13, the other part caught fire."
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spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:58 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 10):

Oh I read it wrong. I thought it said it broke up and then crashed
 
PHX787
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Interesting how this occurs on Friday the Thirteenth..............
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 10):
The article says: "The airplane broke in two as it crashed near the runway end. One part ended up in a small pond, probably at the end of runway 13, the other part caught fire."

What an awful coincidence.

my thoughts to the families  
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atalanta89
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:06 pm

oh my god... i landed there just one week ago.

RIP
 
SASDC8
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:29 pm

CNN now reports that there was three people onboard, the flight crew and a flight attendant. No speculation on the reason of the crash, but the according to some news outlets the GIV had reported some technical problems before the crash.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/13/wo...e-plane-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

My thoughts are with the families of the crew.
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highflier92660
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:34 pm

Possibly a positioning flight with only a Captain, First Officer and a Flight Attendant on board. The accident photos show the reverser clam shells deployed so he was trying to stop on that 5,700 ft. runway. Another case of Vref + a bunch?
 
spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 15):
Possibly a positioning flight with only a Captain, First Officer and a Flight Attendant on board.

It says it was a positioning flight here:

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
Just loaded onto aviation safety network http://aviation-safety.net/database/...713-0
 
audidudi
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:27 pm

How was the weather at the time of the crash? Could it have been a factor? I wonder if his approach was too high, and instead of going around, he tried to land with too little runway left?
 
spacecadet
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Interesting how this occurs on Friday the Thirteenth..............

Would it have been less interesting if it occurred Saturday the 14th or Thursday the 12th?

Quoting audidudi (Reply 17):
I wonder if his approach was too high, and instead of going around, he tried to land with too little runway left?

Seems likely, that or something similar.
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spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 18):

It would not have been less interesting, but it is just a known fact that lots of people gets very nervous and suspicious on Friday the thirteenth.
 
Dldiamondboy
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 15):
accident photos show the reverser clam shells deployed

Yea that was the first thing I noticed. The new report I read indicated a wing separation in flight. Clamshells set would mean that the there was load on the main gear. Does anyone have a different picture that may indicate if the spoilers were deployed?
 
ferpe
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting audidudi (Reply 17):
How was the weather at the time of the crash? Could it have been a factor?

It could, there was good weather, clear skies and warm (some 30°C) but very high and gusty winds, up to 80km/h in the area (at least where I live which is pretty close). The link from Zeke makes it clear it was a ferry flight from Nice to Castellet, a 20 min leg. Given the wind conditions I shouldn't want to land any aircraft today on a runway at angle to the wind, it was probably very gusty and variable in angle and could have changed to a tailwing component late on the final.

[Edited 2012-07-13 14:33:32]
Non French in France
 
spacecadet
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:23 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 19):
It would not have been less interesting, but it is just a known fact that lots of people gets very nervous and suspicious on Friday the thirteenth.

I don't agree at all that it's a "known fact" that people "get very nervous" on Friday the 13th - what does that mean? Do you feel nervous right now? I'm not nervous. The only reason to be nervous is if you actually believe there's any difference between Friday the 13th and any other day. Do you believe that?

I'm sorry for the loss of those involved here but I actually think it cheapens their memory to ascribe some significance to some superstitious date for an accident that could just as easily have occurred any other day of the week. You're basically saying it was all just in God's hands, and there was nothing anybody could have done to prevent this... other than flying yesterday or tomorrow, of course.

I don't personally believe that talk of superstitious dates or triangles or whatever else belongs on an aviation forum, unless you believe that flight itself is enabled through witchcraft. We may as well have that discussion if you're going to ascribe significance to Friday the 13th.
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ghifty
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:25 pm

Thrust reversers deployed:


From: Bradenton Herald

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 22):
I don't agree at all that it's a "known fact" that people "get very nervous" on Friday the 13th - what does that mean? Do you feel nervous right now? I'm not nervous. The only reason to be nervous is if you actually believe there's any difference between Friday the 13th and any other day. Do you believe that?

I don't think people actually get "nervous," the media just overblows it by doing the following:

If you add up the registration's numbers 8+2+3.. you get 13. And the airplane has 2x6 side windows and the cockpit glass.. that's 13! OMG!

 



[Edited 2012-07-13 14:30:19]
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spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 22):

It is true hat many people gt nervous when flying on Friay the thirteenth. it IS a fact. If you ask around, people will tell you that they are extra careful today. Not everybody, but a lot of people, like me. I am a very superstitious person. I'm sorry if you don't agree with what I said, but I said it out of experience. All I meant by my original mention of Friday the thirteenth, is that itmis interesting that this HAPPENED to occur today, of all days. Not that I am minimizing the significance of what happened.
 
gulfstream650
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:42 pm

Not that it would have necessarily had any implication as to why this plane crashed but 24 seems to be very young for a 1st officer of a plane like a GIV. I suppose he got a lucky (or unlucky) break.
I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
 
sunking737
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:25 pm

I have some friends here in the U.S. that know the crew. Many folks are very sad to have learned of this crash. So far I have heard nothing but praise for the crew of the jet.

It is always a sad day when any flight crew dies.
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boeingforever
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:58 pm

the body of the plane seems intact. i feel like it could have been very survivable had there been passengers on board, strapped in, of course
 
av757
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:37 am

We have first officers who are 20 years old flying F50's, A318/19/20 here at Avianca, As long as they are properly trained and have demostrated their proficiency, I see no problem there. My condolences to the crews relatives and their families.

AV757


Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 25):
Not that it would have necessarily had any implication as to why this plane crashed but 24 seems to be very young for a 1st officer of a plane like a GIV. I suppose he got a lucky (or unlucky) break.
 
boeingfixer
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting boeingforever (Reply 28):
the body of the plane seems intact. i feel like it could have been very survivable had there been passengers on board, strapped in, of course

Where do you see this? The tail is broken clean off and I have yet to see any photos of the fuselage. Your comment really has no basis in fact.

My condolences to family and friends of the deceased.

Cheers,

John
Cheers, John YYC
 
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longhauler
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:22 am

Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 25):
Not that it would have necessarily had any implication as to why this plane crashed but 24 seems to be very young for a 1st officer of a plane like a GIV.


I was an A310 Captain for Wardair at 27. (And NOT the youngest Captain in the airline). So it is unlikely the First Officer's age has any implication in the accident.
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PHX787
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:32 am

Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 25):
24 seems to be very young for a 1st officer of a plane like a GIV.

Buddy of mine is a F/O for StarFlyer ( 7G ) in Japan and he just turned 25, so age doesn't necessarily matter here.

Anyway,

Quoting ferpe (Reply 21):

Do you think the wind had something to do with it?
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Dainan
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:57 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):

It is not in the least bit interesting that it happened on that date since accidents sadly happen all of the time every single day of the year.
It's 2012 and people are still afraid of number?   
 
soon7x7
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:36 am

I'd be interested to see a wing shot if it exists to see wing flap position. Runway overruns rarely are due to mechanical issues, especially in this case as the aircraft had been on the market, it would have been subject to many inspections, pre buy inspections, pre ferry flight inspections, etc. The G-lV is a tough airframe and for the occupants to be killed on an overrun situation, they must have had much speed behind them. Sad situation for all involved...As far as Fri/13th...I worked on 2 G-lV's yesterday and a G-V and didn't screw anything up. At days end I did have oddly enough, (13) extra fasteners remaining in my pocket. Now I'll admit...that is quite strange!?
 
soon7x7
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:58 am

Quoting av757 (Reply 28):
We have first officers who are 20 years old flying F50's, A318/19/20 here at Avianca, As long as they are properly trained and have demostrated their proficiency, I see no problem there.


I'd take a fifty year old geezer like myself with 35,000 hours in type before I'd subscribe to 22 year old with 3,000 in type. I'm not talking "sims" here either.
 
corey07850
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:15 pm

Im sure the reason they left Nice was due to lack of ramp parking which is common for Nice in the summer. We normally fly to Toulon or Marseilles as they generally do not have the same issues. I read one article that mentioned the aircraft radioed in a problem so i am wondering if it was heading to Toulon or Marseilles and was attempting to divert.

Also looking at the satellite of the area, the bank of trees and pond that part of the plane came to rest in is off to the left of runway centerline. The aircraft tail is also looks to be perpendicular to the runway so it doesnt seem like a "simple" not enough runway to stop excursion, it veered off quite a bit.

Are there any more photos showing the plane with the runway to see skidmarks and its track to final position?

Condolences to anyone affected
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 7):
MSNBC is saying it was a Mustere Falcon 20 with a 60, 30, and 24 year old on baord.
CNN is saying it was a Gulfstream with a 51, 3, and 24 year old on board.
Dailymail is saying Gulfstream with 61, 30, and 24 year old on board
Yahoo news says it was a GIV with 6 onboard.

Journalism schools should make it MANDATORY that all students take 'AVIATION 101.'

There is no other category that media hacks botch more than aviation.
 
ferpe
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:47 pm

Look at this link provided by Zeke, it says the flight plan was Nice-Le Castellet:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20120713-0

This radioing of problems was according to some new sources, might be the same that said it was a Falcon   . We should seek to have that clarified, could be a hoax. IMO it could have been a not to long runway, 5700ft, together with the extremely gusty winds but what do I know, I have never landed a IV. Is it easy to land and to get stopped?
Non French in France
 
cbphoto
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 34):
I'd take a fifty year old geezer like myself with 35,000 hours in type before I'd subscribe to 22 year old with 3,000 in type. I'm not talking "sims" here either.

I have jump seated on many airlines and flown with a few "60+ geezers" with thousands of hours and I can honestly say, they are not the best either! Don't discredit the youth these days, they were brought up on computer games and video games and overall have a good understanding of the systems and the aircraft! Maybe in an Emergency situation I would prefer the expertise and advise of an old geezer, but even then their stick and rudder skills might be lagging as well, just saying!

Either way, it's horrible what happened and it is always sad to loose fellow flight crew!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
foxxray
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:51 pm

Quoting Gulfstream650 (Reply 25):

Not that it would have necessarily had any implication as to why this plane crashed but 24 seems to be very young for a 1st officer of a plane like a GIV. I suppose he got a lucky (or unlucky) break.



What is the right age for you ?

So we could also say 60 seems to be very old for a GIV captain ?!!!?

I've friends who were younger than 24 when the started flying for EK, AF, EY,... on bigger aircrafts !
 
GulfstreamGuy
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:53 pm

This is horrible news! My prayers are with the families of these victims.
"If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane. " -Jimmy Buffett
 
darreno1
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 34):
I'd take a fifty year old geezer like myself with 35,000 hours in type before I'd subscribe to 22 year old with 3,000 in type. I'm not talking "sims" here either.

  

When I step on an Aircraft, I like to see some gray on my captain or least an older person in the left seat. I have flown with younger pilots but don't feel as safe. And yes I know they have to start at some point but experience DOES matter. I'm not saying it's the cause of this crash but it's a factor that cannot be ignored. Colgan Air 3407 comes to mind. That CVR transcript was pretty disturbing.
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Beeski
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:07 pm

Have any names of the pilots/crew been released?
My old flight instructor is now a FO for Universal Jet.
He is older than 24, and his facebook had him in Los Angeles on the 9th.
 
FlySSC
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 23):
If you add up the registration's numbers 8+2+3.. you get 13. And the airplane has 2x6 side windows and the cockpit glass.. that's 13! OMG!

They were landing on Runway ... 13
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting Beeski (Reply 42):
Have any names of the pilots/crew been released?
My old flight instructor is now a FO for Universal Jet.
He is older than 24, and his facebook had him in Los Angeles on the 9th.

From the rip comments on some of the news sites, One of the pilots was named "Bobby" and the female flight attendant was named "Gwen". I dont think they have officialy released names yet.
 
LONGisland89
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:24 pm

I knew the first officer. The man was exceptionally funny and loved by many. Some here are suggesting he was unpracticed because of his age, but he was well trained and an experienced aviator. He had a promising career doing what he loved, and I looked up to him for that. He has very close friends who post photos on this site and read the forums, so please keep these people, his family, his friends, and the other victims in your thoughts and prayers.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting darreno1 (Reply 41):
I'm not saying it's the cause of this crash but it's a factor that cannot be ignored. Colgan Air 3407 comes to mind. That CVR transcript was pretty disturbing.

Really? Let me educate you on Eastern 401, a very senior Captain who was at that nice grey age of 55, with a First Officer who was 39 and a flight engineer who was also at the ripe age of 47 that were flying over the everglades in their L1011. Combined age of all 3 pilots was 141 years old, yet they crashed because of a burned out gear light bulb.  

Crashes and incidents happen due to a number of issues and factors and I am pretty sure in the commercial world, age has never been cited as a reason for a plane crashing. Frankly I have seen 60 year olds driving cars and their reaction time isn't the best, so all the comments about old grey pilots are better, is nonsense and irrelevant to this or any crash for that matter!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
LH707330
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting darreno1 (Reply 41):
When I step on an Aircraft, I like to see some gray on my captain or least an older person in the left seat. I have flown with younger pilots but don't feel as safe. And yes I know they have to start at some point but experience DOES matter. I'm not saying it's the cause of this crash but it's a factor that cannot be ignored. Colgan Air 3407 comes to mind. That CVR transcript was pretty disturbing.

Would Jacob Van Zanten qualify as an experienced graybeard?
 
spiritair97
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:25 pm

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 45):

I live on Long Islanf and judging by your username you visit here or live here too. Was he from around here? It would really hit close to home for me and us Long Islanders
 
gulfstream650
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RE: Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.

Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:30 am

I simply didn't realise that people as young as their early 20s are getting to fly in the left or right seats in planes such as a GIV or bigger.
I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe

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