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allrite
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Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:26 pm

According to a letter in The Sydney Morning Herald about a recent A380 Emirates flight from Sydney to Dubai:

Quote:
The plane had "drainage problems". Smelly, dirty water overflowed from sinks, soaking the carpets in the cabin and large volumes of soapy shower water came through the ceiling and into the galley food-preparation area.
My blanket was even requisitioned in the crew's futile attempts to stop the tide. It was not a pleasant experience.

This does not sound good at all!
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NYC777
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:27 pm

Betcha Airbus is rethinking that shower idea.
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roseflyer
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:30 pm

It sounds like the drain mast got plugged which caused the gray water plumbing system to backup everywhere. It likely wasn't isolated to the showers, but the showers use a lot of water so that would have been a place where it was noticeable.

The drain mast vents water overboard in flight. The tube on the drain mast is only about 1/8 thick. It can easily clog. A common clog source is coffee grounds from broken coffee bags. Another common source is debris going down sinks. If the drain mast clogs, the whole grey water system will fail on the airplane. This isn't isolated to the A380.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
Betcha Airbus is rethinking that shower idea.

They're lucky it was shower water...if a black water drain from a toilet let go it would be *much* worse.

Tom.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):

Hmmm, this was bound to happen at some point...
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 4):
Hmmm, this was bound to happen at some point...

I believe there have been issues with leaks from the showers, but isolated to just the showers themselves.
 
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allrite
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:39 pm

Back in 2008 a blockage and subsequent overflow through the aircraft floors knocked out the electrical generators in a Qantas 747 (ATSB release), prompting design and procedural changes. You would hope that the A380 would be protected from a similar situation.
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
I believe there have been issues with leaks from the showers, but isolated to just the showers themselves.

Yes I know, but ive always thought something like this would happen if a blockage happened in the shower system, wasnt really a fan of this idea when it first came out.
Please let me know... If you know this is the end of the world, Let me know... If you know the truth...
 
ghifty
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:52 pm

Kind of a non-issue. Interesting, at least. I wonder how much $$$ damage.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
Betcha Airbus is rethinking that shower idea.

Wait a minute! Are the showers Emirates-installed or an Airbus option? I've always thought it was the former.

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 7):
Yes I know, but ive always thought something like this would happen if a blockage happened in the shower system, wasnt really a fan of this idea when it first came out.

It's bound to happen. Have their been any toilet overflows? Can't imagine the situation is any different.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
This isn't isolated to the A380.

Or airplanes for that matter..  yuck 

[Edited 2012-07-13 16:55:56]
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col
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:53 pm

I think you will find it happens to A and B, I have seen leaks from Bathrooms several times.
 
PHX787
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
Betcha Airbus is rethinking that shower idea.

How much water needs to be pumped into an EK 380 for shower operation?
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1stfl94
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting col (Reply 9):

I think you will find it happens to A and B, I have seen leaks from Bathrooms several times.

I guess the big difference with the A380 is there's more chance of the leak going through onto the deck below and onto passengers, even on a 747 any leak from the toilets or UD galley is more likely to go in the galley below rather than on the passenger seats.
 
ei912
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting allrite (Thread starter):
large volumes of soapy shower water came through the ceiling and into the galley food-preparation area.

The shower spas are directly over the economy forward lavatories, not at all near the economy galley which is at ML2/MR2 doors. The F class galley is actually over the Y class galley. The water could have been coming from anywhere based on the writers knowledge of the aircraft. Unfortunate that there was a leak, however, showers or not, these things happen.
 
einsteinboricua
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:39 am

Maybe EK can rethink its cabin layout and place the shower on the first deck for future A380s entering the fleet. That's just a disaster waiting to happen. They could do a bit like SQ has done.
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NYC777
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 8):
Wait a minute! Are the showers Emirates-installed or an Airbus option? I've always thought it was the former.

Airbus gave airlines the option to have it in there I believe as linefit item. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I hope no body pees while taking a shower on that plane. Is there a concern with water from this leak getting into the electrical and avionics bay?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
imiakhtar
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:02 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):
Is there a concern with water from this leak getting into the electrical and avionics bay?

I shouldn't think so. The showers are on the top deck. Economy class is below.
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:11 am

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 13):
Maybe EK can rethink its cabin layout and place the shower on the first deck for future A380s entering the fleet.

One of the nice things about EK's layout, IMIO, is that all premium cabin seating is on the upper deck.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:13 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
ne of the nice things about EK's layout, IMIO, is that all premium cabin seating is on the upper deck.

One more reason to pay the big bucks for business or first class - no smelly drainage problems in your cabin!
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):


How much water needs to be pumped into an EK 380 for shower operation?

If I remember correctly it is 1000 l per flight. They started with more, 1500 l if I remember correctly, but found out that less water is sufficient.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:53 am

I only work with 737's at my airline, however me thinks they use potable water on the A380 to accommodate this feature. I have heard stories about whats inside of a potable water tank and makes me not wanna have a cup of hot chocolate, let alone bathe myself in it..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
astuteman
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:11 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 8):
Are the showers Emirates-installed or an Airbus option? I've always thought it was the former.

I'm left with the impression that it will will always be about Airbus on here...  
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
How much water needs to be pumped into an EK 380 for shower operation?

Somewhere close to 2 tonnes I believe

Rgds
 
SASDC8
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:14 am

Quoting EI912 (Reply 12):
The shower spas are directly over the economy forward lavatories, not at all near the economy galley which is at ML2/MR2 doors. The F class galley is actually over the Y class galley. The water could have been coming from anywhere based on the writers knowledge of the aircraft

Exactly my thoughts as well. The water should have come down earlier is it was from the showers.

I have had this happen on a TG 747, when wastewater came down the walls in the in the front galley after 2L/2R. Quite an interesting experience, and the flight attendants futile attempts to stop it was good fun  
2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
 
ghifty
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:15 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 14):
Airbus gave airlines the option to have it in there I believe as linefit item. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 20):
I'm left with the impression that it will will always be about Airbus on here...  

Not trying to open that can of worms! I'm merely curious whether or not it's a customer option or third-party installation. I think depending on whether or not Airbus installed it, liability for the incident could vary, no?
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N14AZ
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:18 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
How much water needs to be pumped into an EK 380 for shower operation?
Quoting astuteman (Reply 20):
Somewhere close to 2 tonnes I believe

There was an flightgobal article about this issue:

Quote:
"We're seeing 75% of the first-class seat load factor using the showers, and the actual total consumption on the 14h sector is 1.2-1.3t.

Source and more details: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-much-lower-than-forecast-318814/
 
astuteman
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:23 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 22):
Not trying to open that can of worms! I'm merely curious whether or not it's a customer option or third-party installation

I know you weren't my friend.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 22):
I think depending on whether or not Airbus installed it, liability for the incident could vary, no?

It could also vary as to whether it was an installation error, or a operating/using error.
Blockages in plumbing unfortunately do happen, e.g. ...

Quoting allrite (Reply 6):
Back in 2008 a blockage and subsequent overflow through the aircraft floors knocked out the electrical generators in a Qantas 747

They'll probably find a gent's toupee in the drain filter from the shower...  

Rgds
 
Andrensn
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:38 am

Would mold have any affect on an aircraft's ability to fly?
 
shankly
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:52 pm

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 25):
Would mold have any affect on an aircraft's ability to fly?

.....probably if it was all over the cockpit windows. In all seriousness, leaky bathrooms and airplanes are a bad combo:

leaky toilet
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flylku
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:59 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
The drain mast vents water overboard in flight. The tube on the drain mast is only about 1/8 thick.

Must be heated like a pitot tube?

Quoting ghifty (Reply 8):
I wonder how much $$$ damage.

I suspect the damage to the aircraft is less than the cost of the cancellations that followed. At least it was headed home.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 19):
I have heard stories about whats inside of a potable water tank and makes me not wanna have a cup of hot chocolate, let alone bathe myself in it..

I've done work for a company that does high end water filters (it may be molecular sieve technology). Their product flies on a number of aircraft and I believe they got the work for the A380. These are literally the kind of filters that enable you to take city river water and drink it.
...are we there yet?
 
Luftymatt
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:35 pm

This is precisely why showers on aircraft are a bad idea! It's common sense really, water has the potential to cause so much damage. I don't want to think what would have happened had it got into the aircraft electrics.
chase the sun
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 28):
This is precisely why showers on aircraft are a bad idea!

There's been water on large aircrafts for decades... Now there's just more of it.
Being the first on board shower system designed for intensive usage, it was bound to show unexpected problems eventually.

I wonder how they dealt with ensuring clog free drains, engineering wise.
...Obviously not that well.

My showers is used about 4 times a day and the amount of hair, dirt and soap scum that ends up in the drain is disgustingly amazing. But these showers are used 10 to 20 times a day everyday. And who knows what passengers do in there...
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tdscanuck
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 28):
This is precisely why showers on aircraft are a bad idea! It's common sense really, water has the potential to cause so much damage.

I don't think we'll be pulling the potable water system out of aircraft any time soon, even if the aircraft doesn't have a shower.

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 28):
I don't want to think what would have happened had it got into the aircraft electrics.

Most of the electronics that are in a position to encounter significant quantities of water are treated to deal with it (encapsulated circuit boards at the least). They're surprisingly tolerant. If you combine water where it's not supposed to be with electronics that weren't built for it, that gets bad.

Tom.
 
peanuts
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:57 pm

EK would be better off investing in more business lounges equipped with showers as opposed to putting this nonsense on board anyways.
Make some roomy showers on the ground, soft towels and a cleaning attendant at all times. Much more economical in the long run.

[Edited 2012-07-14 13:02:26]
 
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glideslope
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting col (Reply 9):

I think you will find it happens to A and B, I have seen leaks from Bathrooms several times.

ROF, from the ceilings into the galley. Not on a 747.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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glideslope
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 31):

EK would be better of investing in more business lounges equipped with showers as opposed to putting this nonsense on board anyways.

They certainly would.   
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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glideslope
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:04 pm

Let's hope there are no "Cracked" drain pipes.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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mayor
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:19 pm

Ok.......I finally relent and agree with you guys.......now that that Emirates has hot & cold running water in economy as well, I will agree that their service is better than anyone else's.........  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
ba286
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 35):
Ok.......I finally relent and agree with you guys.......now that that Emirates has hot & cold running water in economy as well, I will agree that their service is better than anyone else's.........

  
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wjcandee
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:36 pm

Okay, engineering-types...this must be a dumb question:

If drain masts routinely clog, why not have, on long-haul aircraft, a couple of backup drain masts that wouldn't be put into use unless the first one clogs?

Or a self-cleaning filter like on a dishwasher?
 
Luftymatt
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 30):
I don't think we'll be pulling the potable water system out of aircraft any time soon, even if the aircraft doesn't have a shower.

There's no where near as much water in a standard potable water system, and it's much less likely to flow out of the toilet/sink into the cabin and cause damage.
chase the sun
 
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mayor
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:42 pm

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 38):

There's no where near as much water in a standard potable water system, and it's much less likely to flow out of the toilet/sink into the cabin and cause damage.

Well, not sure how the systems are on newer a/c, but the potable water and toilets are completely separate systems, so there's not much chance of that, anyway.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
ghifty
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 24):
I know you weren't my friend.

  

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 37):
If drain masts routinely clog, why not have, on long-haul aircraft, a couple of backup drain masts that wouldn't be put into use unless the first one clogs?

Extra weight? Lack of space?

Quoting peanuts (Reply 31):

EK would be better off investing in more business lounges equipped with showers as opposed to putting this nonsense on board anyways.
Make some roomy showers on the ground, soft towels and a cleaning attendant at all times. Much more economical in the long run

+1. It's probably cheaper and more cost effective for them to out real showers on the ground anyways. Convert the shower area into a lounge, or something. That will be a good "fly with us" scheme at not too much additional cost.The area where the showers are don't look like they can generate revenue for EK. It's just a little section forward of the.. forward.. staircase that's really only good for show and not use.
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets
 
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Aesma
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:40 pm

Showering on a plane is unique and makes you save time (and pass time), no comparison possible with showers at the airport.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
They're lucky it was shower water...if a black water drain from a toilet let go it would be *much* worse.

I'm not that sure it was only shower water :

Quoting allrite (Thread starter):
Smelly, dirty water
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
penguins
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:23 pm

I was on a Qantas B743 in mid-'08 and some water leaked from F into J and he had to divert to HNL. What makes a water leak so "dangerous" planes divert over it?
 
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Aesma
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:52 pm

Often it's not that it's not safe to fly, it's that there is too few or no lavatories left, and that's a big problem.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 37):
If drain masts routinely clog, why not have, on long-haul aircraft, a couple of backup drain masts that wouldn't be put into use unless the first one clogs?

Just get rid of the drain mast (they're draggy and get FOD damage). That's what the 787 did.

Tom.
 
zhiao
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RE: Emirates A380 Shower Overflows Into Economy

Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:30 am

Doesn't like to put lots of glitz and gold in their showers? So technically these are golden showers.

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