DTWLAX
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DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:37 pm

Just noticed on the DL website that DL is terminating its partnership with 9W & IT effective October 2012.
I was expecting the same with respect to IT but am a bit surprised about Jet Airways.
So now DL has no partner in India and the DL frequent flyers cannot accrue any miles when flying on airlines from India.
I have a feeling this is a hint about 9W and their alliance choice but I have been wrong before.
 
PHX787
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:17 pm

I have a feeling it's with IT's financial issues, so that one isn't so shocking to me.

9W on the other hand is a bit of a surprise.

However, they do have that flight from AMS, along with KL flights from AMS and AF flights from CDG, so maybe those have been doing well enough for the codeshare.
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spiritair97
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:20 pm

I'm sorry but my phone win't tell me what IT is. What airline is it?
 
spartanmjf
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:28 pm

IT=Kingfisher India and the subject of innumerable comments concerning financial viability.
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spiritair97
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 3):

Thanks. I knew I heard learned that a while back but I forgot it.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):
I have a feeling this is a hint about 9W and their alliance choice but I have been wrong before.

With 9W, that was my first thought. With IT... eh, they are not the airline they were a year ago.

Why would DL end the partnership with 9W? That implies that 9W is *not* going with Skyteam. So the question is, which alliance for them?

Lightsaber
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burnsie28
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:53 pm

At the same time didn't 9W basically abandon their Brussels "hub" virtually overnight?
 
TeamintheSky
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:53 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):
Why would DL end the partnership with 9W? That implies that 9W is *not* going with Skyteam. So the question is, which alliance for them?

This is really disappointing as it decreases the likelihood of Jet in SkyTeam. 9W is a great carrier and it's a shame that DL is ending their relationship.
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DTWLAX
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:54 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
However, they do have that flight from AMS, along with KL flights from AMS and AF flights from CDG, so maybe those have been doing well enough for the codeshare.

They have had those flights for years. But one could earn DL miles flying 9W domestic in India as well as other international 9W flights. That will not be possible starting October.

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 6):
At the same time didn't 9W basically abandon their Brussels "hub" virtually overnight?

9W has not abandoned the BRU hub yet. They have only cut the BRU-JFK flight.
 
beeweel15
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:13 am

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):
Just noticed on the DL website that DL is terminating its partnership with 9W & IT effective October 2012.

From what I have heard is that around that time 9W will be consolidating all their NYC operations at EWR
 
WarmNuts
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:48 am

I was a 9W FF from '97-'04. IMO they were a cut above any domestic carrier here in the states, and always a pleasure to fly. I'm sure we'll see them in an alliance irrespective of their partnership (or lack of) with DL.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:08 am

It must mean that DL is about to make a move to buy AS (wooooooo, I know I'm something with this one).

9W is easily the best Indian carrier so it wouldn't be for safety or quality type issues, for sure.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:49 am

Could it be a possible tie up with AL. I remember reading a rumor of an offer for them to join sky team and get into the DL/AF/KLM/AZ cross Atlantic JV.
 
kl692
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:35 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 5):

Why would DL end the partnership with 9W? That implies that 9W is *not* going with Skyteam. So the question is, which alliance for them?

Considering the fact that 9W does code share with SN, they could very well end up joining Star Alliance.

KL692
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aeroblogger
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:45 am

IT was expected - they will be going belly up soon enough..

The 9W decision is likely to do with compensation agreements for mileage crediting, which 9W has been trying to amend with a variety of carriers recently.

Regardless, anybody who follows Indian aviation knows that the political and economic factors which will affect alliance choice have very little to do with current partners or route network.
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DTWLAX
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting beeweel15 (Reply 9):
From what I have heard is that around that time 9W will be consolidating all their NYC operations at EWR

All their operations? 9W has only one flight to JFK and that is going away soon. After that there will be only one 9W flight to the US and that will be the BRU-EWR flight.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 12):
Could it be a possible tie up with AL. I remember reading a rumor of an offer for them to join sky team and get into the DL/AF/KLM/AZ cross Atlantic JV.

That offer was for 9W and not for AI... if that is what you meant when you said AL.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:58 pm

Did 9W ever official announce if/where they would move their scissor hub? Or was that just a rumor?

Quoting kl692 (Reply 13):
Considering the fact that 9W does code share with SN, they could very well end up joining Star Alliance.

I thought that, but *A seems to be delaying accepting both an Indian airline and a mid-east airline. I haven't figured out why. It would benefit the alliance. Well... except for TK.  
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 14):
IT was expected - they will be going belly up soon enough..

I'm amazed that 'zombie corporation' is still operating. I do not see to what advantage it is to keep IT going; unless it is to 'smooth the downward transition' and give 6E time to have aircraft delivered.   

Lightsaber
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DTWLAX
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
I thought that, but *A seems to be delaying accepting both an Indian airline and a mid-east airline. I haven't figured out why. It would benefit the alliance. Well... except for TK.

Star Alliance is not delaying accepting 9W. They are very much keen to have 9W in the alliance. It is the Govt. of India that is not allowing 9W to join Star. This has been discussed a lot here on anet.
 
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 17):
Star Alliance is not delaying accepting 9W. They are very much keen to have 9W in the alliance. It is the Govt. of India that is not allowing 9W to join Star. This has been discussed a lot here on anet.

I've read how the GoI only allows one airline per alliance. What I haven't heard is any formal movement on *A and 9W other than expressions of interest.

I've participated in those discussions. It is time for *A to 'get the ball rolling' by making a public announcement that they have chosen 9W as their Indian partner. As of now, they seem to want 9W but to also leave the door open to AI. As long as they are trying to leave the door open for AI, they will not formally make a proposal to 9W.

Last I looked, the GoI is legally able to block two airlines joining one alliance.

At some point the GoI needs to let business grow in India. Blocking effective partnering in hubbing won't get them there.

Lightsaber
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TeamintheSky
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:07 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
At some point the GoI needs to let business grow in India. Blocking effective partnering in hubbing won't get them there.

I do wonder if the impasse will ever be over. SkyTeam has gone to India and made offers both to 9W and AI. Both seem bound and determined to join Star though. As you have alluded too, the GoI has concerns over competion (as it should IMHO, especially with the exit of IT) if one alliance has the major two remaining full service carriers in its fold.

However, no side is backing down. 9W and AI are still having stifling loses. And while entering an alliance certainly won't turn either automatically profitable, it would have to help. As many have speculated, maybe this is where we see AI sign with SkyTeam in October, QR sign with oneworld to help with Indian representation, and 9W finally be able to marry Star.

It could turn out to be an interesting fall in regards to Indian Aviation

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kl692
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 19):
Last I looked, the GoI is legally able to block two airlines joining one alliance.

At some point the GoI needs to let business grow in India. Blocking effective partnering in hubbing won't get them there.

If AI and 9W both are to Join * Alliance, there won't be much of competition in the country as I have a feeling price in both airlines will be the same since they both fall under one alliance. It will be nice to have both AI and 9W join different alliance. Sky team and * Alliance will be my choice.
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RE: DL Terminating Partnership With 9W & IT

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:13 am

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 17):
Star Alliance is not delaying accepting 9W. They are very much keen to have 9W in the alliance. It is the Govt. of India that is not allowing 9W to join Star. This has been discussed a lot here on anet.

That's not accurate.

GoI has declared that both AI and 9W cannot be in the same alliance (for valid competition reasons - having both FSCs in 1 alliance would have a monopolizing effect).

Both AI and 9W want to join *A. AI currently holds an invitation to join *A, although the application is suspended. Therefore, *A cannot issue 9W an invitation.

*A could get out of this mess by rescinding the invitation to AI, or accepting AI into *A and letting 9W go.

However, neither option is particularly pleasant for *A, and since India is a hole for every other alliance too, they are happy to keep delaying.
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