LY777
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Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:15 am

Why are AF interiors so basic?

Their short haul a/c (A32S) doesn't even have drop down screens, and the new seats can't even recline. Their short haul C class is a joke.

Concerning their long haul a/c, their 777s have become terrible with 10-abreast in Y, and tiny PTVs (some airlines have 10-abreast in Y, but with at least huge PTVs). And of course, they don't have mood lights....

AF 77W 10 abreast:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jerome Mervelet




TAM 77W 10 abreast:

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Photo © Christian Waser




Even at 10 abreast, TAM 77Ws look much nicer.


Concerning their A380s, they must be the most basic A380s in the world: nothing extraordinary, when we compare to other airlines, inluding LH (!).

The F and C class are also disappointing.

What do you think? Why does AF make the miminum?
Don't they have to improve their cabin to remain competitive?

This is not an AF bashing thread, on the contrary, I love this airline, which represents my country around the world.

[Edited 2012-07-15 02:17:23]
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ghifty
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:32 am

Basic? First of all, there are many airlines with WAY worse hard products than AF.

Have you flown with them? I was always under the impression that they had a rather bland looking cabin, but after flying on their A380 (AF066, CDG-LAX, trip report coming..) I must say their seat is quite comfortable and they have very good IFE. Additionally, they do have some semblance of "mood lighting."

Being someone from the US, I'm going to maintain that AF is at least a step above most of our airlines.
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LY777
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
Basic? First of all, there are many airlines with WAY worse hard products than AF.

Of course.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
Have you flown with them? I was always under the impression that they had a rather bland looking cabin, but after flying on their A380 (AF066, CDG-LAX, trip report coming..) I must say their seat is quite comfortable and they have very good IFE. Additionally, they do have some semblance of "mood lighting."

A380s do have some kind of mood lighting, altough they are not really mood lightings since there is only one colour (purple).
If you compare AF A380s to other airlines, there is no comparison possible...
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
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CARST
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:10 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Why are AF interiors so basic?

I don't feel their cabins are basic compared to other airlines. Perhaps you just feel like that because you are flying on them most of the time and it feels more special when you are on another carrier.

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Their short haul a/c (A32S) doesn't even have drop down screens, and the new seats can't even recline. Their short haul C class is a joke.

Why are screens important on a short-haul fleet in Europe? Most routes are not longer than 1-2 hours and you really don't need a movie etc. on this short hops.
And I don't know about any airline left in Europe that is providing a real C class. You just get what you need for these short hops: 1,5 seats with a blocked middle seat and business treatment from the crew. What else do you expect?

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):

Concerning their long haul a/c, their 777s have become terrible with 10-abreast in Y, and tiny PTVs (some airlines have 10-abreast in Y, but with at least huge PTVs). And of course, they don't have mood lights....

I am not sure about that point and I prefer 9-abreast 777s, too, but I think TAM just got their 777s at a later point, so they have the newer interiors with mood lightning and larger screens. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can enlighten us if new AF 777s are delivered with the same hard-product as their A380s?

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Concerning their A380s, they must be the most basic A380s in the world: nothing extraordinary, when we compare to other airlines, including LH (!).

I have flown the AF A380 in Y and found it to be a very nice experience. And I look forward to fly on that plane again in November. Large screens, good IFE, excellent seats with good width and legroom, USB power, nothing else you could wish for.

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
The F and C class are also disappointing.

Have not flown F or C with AF, but I visited both cabins in the A380 and tried the seats, found them to be comfortable and stylish designed. Lots of personal space, too...
 
airsmiles
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:43 pm

I must say those aisles looking really tiny for so many people to exit from! I'm not used to Y class but are 3-4-3 aisles much smaller than 3-3-3 aisles? No doubt they meet minimum standards but what do others think about the aisle size?
 
AAIL86
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Why are screens important on a short-haul fleet in Europe? Most routes are not longer than 1-2 hours and you really don't need a movie etc. on this short hops.

We are having the same debate here in the USA and I agree with you. Of course long-haul is a different story, but personally I think installing tv screens on short-haul aircraft is a waste of space, money, and maintenance hours...

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
Being someone from the US, I'm going to maintain that AF is at least a step above most of our airlines.

Agreed - the catering is probably going to be the biggest difference people notice.

[Edited 2012-07-15 08:05:17]
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Mortyman
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:31 pm

The interiors are perhaps a little bland, color wise, but you got everything you need on their A380's. I flew in economy on their A380 and was happy with the experience. Everyone even get complimentary Champagne in economy ...  
 
VC10er
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):

I have only been on a few A380's: AF, LH and SQ. But in Business. I found AF to be very good as was LH. However both were well beaten by SQ. The AF seat was better than LH, but LH was seemingly cleaner.

Too bad LX won't be getting an A380 (or the 748i). I will be on LH's in August with their new seats. It will be interesting.

But in general I have never found AF to live up to the wonderful nation she represents.
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CARST
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 5):
We are having the same debate here in the USA and I agree with you. Of course long-haul is a different story, but personally I think installing tv screens on short-haul aircraft is a waste of space, money, and maintenance hours...

I think you can not compare the short-haul fleets in the USA and from European Airlines as the sector lengths in the US are on average much longer. A lot of national flights in the USA are in the 3-6 hours range, while this is not the case here in Europe. Lisbon - Moscow would be be equal to a US transcon, but flights that long are very rare if you just focus on inner-EU flights.
 
spud757
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:44 pm

The BA 773 config in Y is 3-3-3 but to be honest i prefered EK 773 even in 3-4-3 config. Mood lighting on EK and their ICE AVOD is great. QR have the best Y service though in Y... Well except for TG
 
LY777
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting spud757 (Reply 9):
The BA 773 config in Y is 3-3-3 but to be honest i prefered EK 773 even in 3-4-3 config.

There is no mood light in Y on BA 77Ws?Only in F?
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ferminbrif
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?



maybe because good things are basic. there´s no need to be overloaded of stuff to be good.
 
ba286
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Most routes are not longer than 1-2 hours and you really don't need a movie etc. on this short hops.

While I agree that TV programming or movies are unnecessary for such short flights, I do enjoy glancing at the air show every now and then. Always nice to known where you are!
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citationjet
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Why are AF interiors so basic?

To match their exterior???   
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
Being someone from the US, I'm going to maintain that AF is at least a step above most of our airlines.

Amen to that!
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ghifty
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Why are screens important on a short-haul fleet in Europe? Most routes are not longer than 1-2 hours and you really don't need a movie etc. on this short hops.

That is true. And even on routes in the 4-5 hour range in the US, like Transcon hops, most people don't even use their PTV and instead opt to catch a quick nap before arriving.

That being said, it's not like all of the American airlines aircraft are equipped with PTVs..

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
a real C class.

I feel like OP is pushing at the separated cabin with bigger seats being a "real C class." Glancing through C domestic trip reports in the EU and US, it seems like Europe has the edge when it comes to soft product. Personally, on such a short leg I'd rather get good service than snooty service and a big seat..

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
I have flown the AF A380 in Y and found it to be a very nice experience. And I look forward to fly on that plane again in November. Large screens, good IFE, excellent seats with good width and legroom, USB power, nothing else you could wish for.

Make sure you get the upper deck. And if the config is a V. 2 A380 (check based on whether or not a Y+ cabin is fitted), get seat 89A. The side storage bin and emergency exit protrusion behind the seat make for a lounge chair experience.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
A380s do have some kind of mood lighting, altough they are not really mood lightings since there is only one colour (purple).

Oh. I thought my flight's mood-lighting was broken. Guess not.. though to be fair it did seem to cycle between a purple and indigo-blue.
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LY777
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting ferminbrif (Reply 11):

maybe because good things are basic. there´s no need to be overloaded of stuff to be good.

It depends.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 7):
But in general I have never found AF to live up to the wonderful nation she represents.

This is exactly my guess

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 13):
To match their exterior???

LOL

Quoting ba286 (Reply 12):
I do enjoy glancing at the air show every now and then. Always nice to known where you are!

This is my favourite program on the IFE.
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
spud757
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 10):

Travelled BA on the 77W LHR-BOM-LHR and it was indeed very bland interior with either no lights on or all on. Could see (from a distance) the blue mood light on up in F but obviously cattle class in Y don't deserve a gentle mood light. Now that is extreme cost cutting if the blue light couldn't continue the whole length of the aircraft!
On BA 77w New AVOD is good but the cabin interior bland, food bland, service bland.
Not a patch on recent Y trips on EK or QR.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:07 am

Inter-EU AF is on-par with their competitors. The business model and average sector length currently don't warrant a US or Asian style inter-EU J class.

Long-Haul AF's NEV concept was revolutionary at the time it was introduced, but has fallen drastically behind the expectations of today's long-haul J class passenger. AF is about to embark on a +500Million Euro retrofit of F and J class on the A380 and 777 a/c in which a new P suite will be introduced and J will finally get all-aisle access flat-bed seating. The seat will be developed by SICMA and announcements are forthcoming.

That said, I find AF's long-haul cabin schemes to be neutral and quite pleasing for extended hours. Pale beige, white, grey and dark blue provide for a calming experience.

They're my preferred carrier for TATL travel.
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goldorak
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:21 am

I do not think their interiors are basic at all and their service is on par or better than many carriers. Of course, they're not SQ or CX but...
As said by many posters before me, PTV or screens are a waste of money on European flights. A tablet or a book provide excellent entertainment for one or 2 hrs.
And regarding mood lightning, I'm still waiting for any serious study proving its usefulness. For me, it's just a gadget I don't care about a single second.
 
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euroflyer
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:17 am

You also do have to remember that AF is not and don't want to be a luxury airline as EK, QR, SQ or even LX.
Their positioning is mainly mid-class and absolutely matches with their pax profile, so they tend to offer basic but functional equipment (even if sometimes the prices don't follow). Moreover, and don't see any racism or xenophobia in there but AF serves very different routes and has a great presence on the African market where people don't really take care of things in general. One of my most exotic experience was onboard flight AF888 connecting CDG to FIH (Kinshasa, Congo), I remember at least 3 broken tray-tables and 2 armrests just within a radius of 5-seats around me. What a mess it was for the F/A's, not judging, it was just some kind of a cultural shock.
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LY777
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):
On BA 77w New AVOD is good but the cabin interior bland, food bland, service bland.

I didn't know that BA was so bad in Y. At least, their 777 are still at 9-abreast in Y.

Quoting goldorak (Reply 19):
As said by many posters before me, PTV or screens are a waste of money on European flights. A tablet or a book provide excellent entertainment for one or 2 hrs.

An Airshow map is very appreciated even on short haul.
AF operates their CDG-Moscow flights with A320s with no IFE, and these flights are much longer than one or 2 hours...
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Viscount724
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting airsmiles (Reply 4):
are 3-4-3 aisles much smaller than 3-3-3 aisles?

About 2.5 inches narrower.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):
On BA 77w New AVOD is good but the cabin interior bland, food bland, service bland.
Not a patch on recent Y trips on EK

Can't believe anyone would prefer 10-abreast to 9-abreast on a 777, regardless of other service amenities.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
Quoting airsmiles (Reply 4): are 3-4-3 aisles much smaller than 3-3-3 aisles?
About 2.5 inches narrower.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):On BA 77w New AVOD is good but the cabin interior bland, food bland, service bland.
Not a patch on recent Y trips on EK
Can't believe anyone would prefer 10-abreast to 9-abreast on a 777, regardless of other service amenities.

I agree, having recently flown with AF to HAV, 10Y on the 777 is most unpleasant if you're reasonably large, and that smaller aisle is really noticeable as you squeeze through the bodies flopping into it  

I found the IFE fine, was disappointed in the service though
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zippyjet
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:15 pm

Seems to be the trend of the day for cost effectiveness. Uniform interiors, colors, trim, equipment. Makes parts interchangeable and maintenance supposedly easier. You have to go to the really long haul flights on say Emirates (380's and 787's) for more pizazz in the cabin.
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ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Concerning their long haul a/c, their 777s have become terrible with 10-abreast in Y, and tiny PTVs (some airlines have 10-abreast in Y, but with at least huge PTVs).

This is the first time I can recall somebody complaining on Airliners.net that the PTV screens are too small. Usually the complaint is that there aren't any PTV's at all.

"If I can't have two Porsches, then I don't want any at all." Sounds pretty silly any way it's sliced.
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OA260
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Concerning their A380s, they must be the most basic A380s in the world: nothing extraordinary, when we compare to other airlines, inluding LH (!).

I have had a love hate relationship with AF over the years and many a time I have been flamed for it but I have to say I was impressed by their A380 cabins . I would not hesitate to fly on them . I also had a very nice EU experience on them which can be seen here :

Air France Have You Really Improved? DUB-CDG-ATH. (by OA260 Mar 17 2012 in Trip Reports)

I found the cabins on the EU flights comfortable and meal service pleasant. You dont need drop down screens for 3-4 hours. The only time Im interested in those is when they show moving map and flight info  

Regards the A380 cabins again I think AF have the best F Cabin out there. Im not a fan of these coffin type suites.

Some pics I took can be seen here :

Air France A380 Heathrow To Paris/SkyTeam Lounge (by oa260 Jun 12 2010 in Trip Reports)

Hard to believe it was 2010 when they ran these flights !

I actually hate Longhaul Y but I would actually consider it on the AF A380 Upper deck . I found it quite spacious and comfortable.
 
n729pa
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:32 pm

Perhaps it's easier to clean!!   

  sorry...tongue firmly in cheek!

Actually I do like AF, I've flown them twice LHR-CDG-LHR, A380 and A320 and I was pleasantly surprised and actually impressed with the service and friendliness of the crew....I would seriously consider AF long haul.

Having flown BA on European sectors, I wouldn't want to try them long haul. If I was flying to NYC tomorrow from LHR, I would consider AF over BA if the fare matched. None of the US carriers seem to be that highly rated, so I would look around a bit for something else.
 
LY777
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:30 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 27):
I was pleasantly surprised and actually impressed with the service and friendliness of the crew

I agree with you. Most AF F/As are OK.
Nevertheless, I have once experienced a rude AF F/A on a VCE-CDG flight: she treated passengers like pupils at school (!!!). There was also a passenger who was afraid of flying: instead of trying to comfort the passenger, she said: "why on earth do you fly? Take the train, instead!!!" . Furthermore, we had a 3.5 hour delay that day...
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
maddog888
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 28):
Nevertheless, I have once experienced a rude AF F/A on a VCE-CDG flight: she treated passengers like pupils at school (!!!). There was also a passenger who was afraid of flying: instead of trying to comfort the passenger, she said: "why on earth do you fly? Take the train, instead!!!" . Furthermore, we had a 3.5 hour delay that day...

It is no excuse - being pleasant is part of their job description after all - but I would suggest that the delay may have contributed to her attitude. We all know how a bad day at the office can be and we have no idea how it affected her plans.
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1stfl94
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RE: Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 28):
I agree with you. Most AF F/As are OK.
Nevertheless, I have once experienced a rude AF F/A on a VCE-CDG flight: she treated passengers like pupils at school (!!!). There was also a passenger who was afraid of flying: instead of trying to comfort the passenger, she said: "why on earth do you fly? Take the train, instead!!!" . Furthermore, we had a 3.5 hour delay that day...

It's always nice to see staff disparaging their own business!

Quoting euroflyer (Reply 20):
Their positioning is mainly mid-class and absolutely matches with their pax profile, so they tend to offer basic but functional equipment (even if sometimes the prices don't follow). Moreover, and don't see any racism or xenophobia in there but AF serves very different routes and has a great presence on the African market where people don't really take care of things in general. One of my most exotic experience was onboard flight AF888 connecting CDG to FIH (Kinshasa, Congo), I remember at least 3 broken tray-tables and 2 armrests just within a radius of 5-seats around me. What a mess it was for the F/A's, not judging, it was just some kind of a cultural shock.

I suspect this is more due to the fact that there is little competition on many of these routes, particularly for direct flights. SN only upgraded their A330 cabins with the start of the JFK flights they would have probably kept their old interiors if they had stayed just on African flights and I guess AF probably isn't aiming to high if it doesn't have to.