HALFA
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Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:02 pm

Hawaiian Airlines continues with international expansion offering new 3 x weekly service from HNL to Auckland, New Zealand. The new service will commence in March, 2013

More here:
http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1714739&highlight=

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/162528596.html?mobile=true

Aloha,
HALFA

[Edited 2012-07-15 15:17:25]
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
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RWA380
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
Hawaiian Airlines continues with international expansion offering new 3 x weekly service from HNL to Auckland, New Zealand. The new service will commence in March, 2013

Finally, I've been calling this one forever....Awesome move HA love to see how you've grown over the years since I started flying with you as an Inter-Island only carrier.  
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
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Pohakuloa
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:08 pm

Very nice for HA! Our Kiwi friends will have some great news to wake up to this Monday morning!

The press release states flight timings will be well timed for onward connections to the mainland US. I didn't see the flight times shown, any one privy to that information yet?

Pohakuloa's Arm Chair CEO HA expansion prediction board:
2 for 3 on new destinations with 2 yet to be seen.

Kudos to HA on their continued growth in the Pacific region!

[Edited 2012-07-15 15:14:49]
Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
 
PHX787
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:11 pm

HA is doing something right with this expansion!   
Congrats to HA and I hope they continue to expand and be profitable.

Maybe a flight to Taipei?   
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byronicle6
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:17 pm

Great news HA. Had been expecting this for a while now.
Look forward to trying them out with this new service to AKL at some point
Travel is my thing
 
chepos
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:21 pm

Congratulations to Hawaiian, nice to see a US carrier back in AKL.

Regards,

Chepos
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jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:25 pm

This is awesome. Thought AKL would be next as well, and here it is. With all these new routes, HA could legitimately make themselves a players in terms of connectivity, kind of an 'Emirates of the Pacific'. In concept, not scale.

Think of what they could offer from say, Australia/New Zealand to New York. 2 manageable flights and a nights stopover in HNL. That would be a fantastic proposition for Y class passengers.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:30 pm

Looks as if they are going to start the service with the 763.

I'd have expected them to go in the the A332, seeing as how their main competition is NZ, which has a pretty outstanding onboard product.
-Doc Lightning-

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gilesdavies
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:19 pm

Be interesting to see if they could offer connections to other carriers on the AKL route...

People from Europe are very much restricted to flying NZ and connecting through London, if they are going to AKL. I wonder if they could codeshare with European Carriers and allow passengers to connect through the likes of LAX, SFO or SEA for example and fly HA the rest of the way.

Also be good to see more competition on the Pacific between the US and NZ, as I thing NZ are now the only operator... Am I right in thinking QF are no longer operating AKL-LAX route?
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:35 pm

Good news for AKL and HA the more the better, at least someone is going ahead ahead with expansions unlike UA who gave up before they even started, Yes NZ have the whole AKL - North America routes to themselves LAX,SFO,HNL and if you include Canada too then Vancouver  
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aztrainer
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:13 am

Way to go HA on the new expansion.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Maybe a flight to Taipei?

I would think that is a safe bet as they have the 4 to Japan, 2, Australia, 1 to Korea, 1 to Philippines, 1 America Samoa, 1 Tahiti and now 1 to New Zealand.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:55 am

Will the flight connect both ways to the west coast? With QF pulling AKL-LAX, I would assume there will likely be some connecting traffic. NZ operates a monopoly to YVR, SFO and LAX, so I would assume there is some opportunity for HA to pick up connecting traffic at decent yields.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
pualani
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:58 am

I just worked a MNL-HNL flight yesterday and we had four company cargo execs just returning from Singapore. When asked if Singapore was on the horizon they said they couldn't say anything concrete but I'm hoping yes !!
 
KLAXAirport
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:07 am

Wow, HA is on a role! Great news for HA! All I want next is a new US Destination.

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   
 
hnl-jack
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:27 am

Clearly HA is in in the process of building a fortress hub in HNL. While most of the routes serve O&D traffic, the more they add, the more the concoction possibilities become a factor. Hopefully the AKL flights will be and easy connection with their JFK service. Nice alternative to the hustle and bustle of connecting through LAX or SFO.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:45 am

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 8):
People from Europe are very much restricted to flying NZ and connecting through London, if they are going to AKL.

Eh? Yet CX, MH, SQ, KE, TG, EK and CZ all offer decent connections?

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 11):
so I would assume there is some opportunity for HA to pick up connecting traffic at decent yields.

One thing I'd question is the hard product in the 763s which will operate this route. It'd be a different story if they had an A332 competing against the decent IFE offerings of NZ.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:07 am

I'm very glad to see HA expand it's international routes. I'm sorry to be buzzkill here, but I would definitely take NZ over HA any day...not so much for the nonstop, but NZ's product is far superior than HA.
 
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zkojq
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:51 am

Interesting. I wonder how this will affect Air New Zealand and Hawaiian Airline's relationship. Air New Zealand currently performs heavy maintenance on Hawaiian's 767s. Is there a chance of this ceaseing now they are competitors?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
I'd have expected them to go in the the A332, seeing as how their main competition is NZ, which has a pretty outstanding onboard product.

Additionally Air New Zealand's AKL-HNL flights have been upgraded to Boeing 777-200ERs which have better premium seats than the 767-300ERs which previously operated the route.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Also be good to see more competition on the Pacific between the US and NZ, as I thing NZ are now the only operator... Am I right in thinking QF are no longer operating AKL-LAX route?

Correct. Air New Zealand now has a monopoly on flights between New Zealand to North America. Consequently fares have gone up.
First to fly the 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE (2014-10-09, NZ103)
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:23 am

Another nail in FJ's turnaround strategy ...

Good call HA ... now I must call the consultant who has been working on their route plan   ... you know who you are.

Saludos,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:27 am

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 18):
Another nail in FJ's turnaround strategy ...

Speaking of which, I wonder whether they will ever consider HNL-NAN ? They would probably stand a better chance of making it work than UA/CO did.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:39 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
Air New Zealand currently performs heavy maintenance on Hawaiian's 767s. Is there a chance of this ceaseing now they are competitors?

I wouldn't expect the announcement to have any effect on the MX.. It's still extra revenue for NZ. And the fact that NZ has a better product might be the proving point on this route unless their prices can be significantly undercut.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:43 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 15):

One thing I'd question is the hard product in the 763s which will operate this route. It'd be a different story if they had an A332 competing against the decent IFE offerings of NZ.

In economy, I don't think it is a big deal since they can get traffic on fares, and yields are likely to be high enough with so little competition. No one is going to take a flight stopping in HNL unless they want to go to HNL on a stopover or for a lower fare.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
I'm very glad to see HA expand it's international routes. I'm sorry to be buzzkill here, but I would definitely take NZ over HA any day...not so much for the nonstop, but NZ's product is far superior than HA.

Where I see HA having problems is in the premium cabin. HA can't compete in first class with international business class products. HA goes after economy, but with them continuing to serve more international destinations, HA is going up against high quality business class products with a US domestic first class product.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
Interesting. I wonder how this will affect Air New Zealand and Hawaiian Airline's relationship. Air New Zealand currently performs heavy maintenance on Hawaiian's 767s. Is there a chance of this ceaseing now they are competitors?

I doubt it would be an impact as most airlines will gladly do maintenance for other airlines if the price is right. However, I thought HA was shifting more towards contracting with DL for maintenance.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:01 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 21):
Where I see HA having problems is in the premium cabin.

Agreed. They really need to fit a proper long-haul product. The shortest flight HA operates is HNL-SFO (other than intra-island flights), which is a good five hours westbound and close to that eastbound. Yet their F product looks as if it's designed for continental US overland operations.

JFK-HNL is the longest nonstop domestic flight in the world that doesn't pass over foreign territory (CDG-RUN is longer, but crosses foreign countries). They really do need a long-haul premium product to reflect that.
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mariner
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:22 am

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 18):
Another nail in FJ's turnaround strategy ...

Why "another" nail?

Air Pacific has just reported a good operating profit (over $11 million) against a loss last year:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/transport/...icle.cfm?c_id=97&objectid=10815446

"Air Pacific flies back into the black"

- which suggests the strategy is moving in the right direction.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:53 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 23):
Why "another" nail?

Air Pacific has just reported a good operating profit (over $11 million) against a loss last year:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/transport/...icle.cfm?c_id=97&objectid=10815446

"Air Pacific flies back into the black"

- which suggests the strategy is moving in the right direction.

mariner

= Well, it is 1 year - so let's hope it is sustainable. I have a lot of respect for Dave, Josef who did a lot of great work before leaving, and the consultants who have been pivotal and if anyone can keep them sustainable, it is the current team. They must do more to add connectivity however @ NAN.

Saludos,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
HAL
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:02 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
I wonder how this will affect Air New Zealand and Hawaiian Airline's relationship. Air New Zealand currently performs heavy maintenance on Hawaiian's 767s.

HA uses DL for a lot of maintenance, yet HA competes with DL on several routes. I don't see DL clamoring to end the contract, since they are making a profit on the business.

Companies are not people with big emotional responses. If they can make money doing something, they'll probably do it. Corporate competition is not as personal as so many here on A.net make it out to be.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
JFK-HNL is the longest nonstop domestic flight in the world that doesn't pass over foreign territory (CDG-RUN is longer, but crosses foreign countries). They really do need a long-haul premium product to reflect that.

Does every airline have to have the same product? Isn't there room for something different? No, HA won't pull in the people who want a top-tier F product. But offering a top-tier F product on most of thier flights (US mainland - Hawaii) would cost them dearly, because nobody would pay for it. Keeping a sub-fleet of fully configured first-class aircraft for longer-haul flights wouldn't be cost-effective either.

I think that HA's profit margins for the past few years tell the story: They are providing a product that their passengers want, and will pay for, while allowing for the airline to remain solvent and grow. Just because others offer a particular product, doesn't mean everyone else should.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
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mariner
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:08 am

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 24):
Well, it is 1 year - so let's hope it is sustainable. I have a lot of respect for Dave, Josef who did a lot of great work before leaving, and the consultants who have been pivotal and if anyone can keep them sustainable, it is the current team. They must do more to add connectivity however @ NAN.,

I'm sure we all hope so, but you haven't explained what you mean by "another nail" - and I don't know who you mean by "Dave" and "Josef."

They have last names, I'm sure.

mariner

[Edited 2012-07-15 23:10:13]
aeternum nauta
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:18 am

Good news and not unexpected!!!

I'd imagine timings similar to the new BNE service ex HNL.

HNL 1000 AKL 1730
AKL 2100 HNL 0700

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
Additionally Air New Zealand's AKL-HNL flights have been upgraded to Boeing 777-200ERs which have better premium seats than the 767-300ERs which previously operated the route.

This is only until the end of August then back to 763s.

Quoting abrelosojos (Reply 24):
They must do more to add connectivity however @ NAN.

FJ are pretty small, or tiny really, they do a good job with what they have, its pretty difficult to offer good connections everywhere when HNL flights are what 3 weekly and LAX is 4-5 weekly, sure SYD and AKL are more than daily and BNE is daily but still.
 
HAWAIIAN932
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:55 am

If HA times the connections right I think it would be great for New Zealanders wanting to go to LAS, PHX, PDX, SAC, OAK, SJC, SEA, JFK or SAN and not have to deal with LAX or SFO. Making connections in HNL is a breeze. HA is my favorite airline so I wish them the best of luck on any and all new routes.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 15):
Eh? Yet CX, MH, SQ, KE, TG, EK and CZ all offer decent connections?

Sorry that is me being stupid...

I always think of flying UK to New Zealand has to be westbound over the USA. But there is only a matter of a few hundred miles distance, if you fly east or west to NZ.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:23 am

Quoting HAL (Reply 25):
But offering a top-tier F product on most of thier flights (US mainland - Hawaii) would cost them dearly, because nobody would pay for it. Keeping a sub-fleet of fully configured first-class aircraft for longer-haul flights wouldn't be cost-effective either.

Other airlines with similar fleets to HA manage it. But as HA begins to expand into an increasingly transpac and international market, their product will probably need to change to match it.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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Pohakuloa
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:48 am

Quoting pualani (Reply 12):
I just worked a MNL-HNL flight yesterday and we had four company cargo execs just returning from Singapore. When asked if Singapore was on the horizon they said they couldn't say anything concrete but I'm hoping yes !!

Oh, if so my passport and HawaiianMiles will certainly see an increase in activity! Singapore and soon Taipei makes perfect sense because they are both on the VWP list which as has been said many times by HA brass as being the basis for potential expansion for the HA network.

I also think that in addition to the ease of transfer in HNL compared to other major US PoE's, the potential for connections based on well timed inbound and outbound connections in HNL. Though not the primary objective in the HA business plan, if traveling anywhere outside of SFO/LAX a HNL connection could in fact be far more desirable.
Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
 
koruman
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:22 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
I'm sorry to be buzzkill here, but I would definitely take NZ over HA any day...not so much for the nonstop, but NZ's product is far superior than HA.
Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
Additionally Air New Zealand's AKL-HNL flights have been upgraded to Boeing 777-200ERs which have better premium seats than the 767-300ERs which previously operated the route.

Sadly, both comments are incorrect.

Air NZ's use of the 77E is a short-term winter holidays move, and then they return to using the 767-300ER, just like Hawaiian. In terms of product:

a) Seats in Economy and Business on both carriers are near-identical, but Air NZ has built-in IFE (albeit highly limited selection on the 763) while Hawaiian has dig-e-players. In Economy you have to pay for IFE on both carriers.

b) Catering in Business on the two carriers is similar: more substantial with Hawaiian's "three plates" offering but classier wines on NZ.

c) All Hawaiian economy tickets include food and baggage, whereas with Air NZ it costs extra.

d) Hawaiian can offer one-stop connections to San Diego, Las Vegas, Portland and Seattle, whereas with Air NZ you have to change terminals and carriers at LAX or SFO.

e) Hawaiian flights offer substantial earning in Virgin's frequent flyer program. Air NZ has recently massively devalued earning in both Business and Economy class to Honolulu.

f) If Hawaiian's Sydney fares are any guide, Hawaiian's fares are likely to undercut Air NZ by around 30% in Economy Class and by around 60% in Business Class.

Unfortunately Air NZ is likely to suffer on this route from the ill-conceived decision to roll out its LCC model on AKL-HNL. It has worked against LCCs on the Tasman routes, but for both HNL and PPT they are offering an LCC model against full-service competitors, which is brave and leaves them exposed to being driven out of the market.
 
aztrainer
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:40 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 27):
I'd imagine timings similar to the new BNE service ex HNL.

HNL 1000 AKL 1730
AKL 2100 HNL 0700

Coming in at 7:00AM HST will be early to connect to HA's mainland flights. It seems as it would be at least a six hour layover in HNL:

HA - 10 LAX - 08:00 HST
HA - 22 SEA - 13:15 HST
HA - 12 SFO - 13:55HST
HA - 20 SMF - 14:00 HST
HA - 2 LAX - 14:05 HST
HA - 36 PHX - 14:22 HST
HA - 26 PDX - 14:40 HST
HA - 18 LAS - 15:00 HST
HA - 50 JFK - 15:05 HST
HA - 4 LAX - 22:20HST
HA - 8 LAS - 22:30 HST
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Other airlines with similar fleets to HA manage it. But as HA begins to expand into an increasingly transpac and international market, their product will probably need to change to match it.

But most of their customers are leisure travelers who are unwilling to pay the premium necessary to justify a long-haul international product.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Other airlines with similar fleets to HA manage it.

How many of those airlines are built mostly around shuttling tourists on vacation?
 
yegbey01
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:47 pm

Nice to see this expansion. I was thinking why Hawaiian doesn't venture into points in Western Canada (like, YEG, YYC and YVR). I am sure there's quite the demand and the possibility to offer many connections now.
 
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mats
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:52 pm

I still remember seeing a Hawaiian DC-8 at Auckland in 1991.

At that time, American, United, and Continental all served Auckland (and Northwest flew to Sydney). I guess it was kind of a heyday for US carriers flying to Australia and New Zealand.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:06 pm

If HA grows too big and too successful, someone will try to buy them
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 27):
HNL 1000 AKL 1730
AKL 2100 HNL 0700
Quoting aztrainer (Reply 33):
Coming in at 7:00AM HST will be early to connect to HA's mainland flights. It seems as it would be at least a six hour layover in HNL:

HA - 10 LAX - 08:00 HST
HA - 22 SEA - 13:15 HST
HA - 12 SFO - 13:55HST
HA - 20 SMF - 14:00 HST
HA - 2 LAX - 14:05 HST
HA - 36 PHX - 14:22 HST
HA - 26 PDX - 14:40 HST
HA - 18 LAS - 15:00 HST
HA - 50 JFK - 15:05 HST
HA - 4 LAX - 22:20HST
HA - 8 LAS - 22:30 HST

The flight to AKL doesnt have any connections from the USA. On the return LAX is a quick connection but the rest arent. The timings could move 2.5 hours to a later HNL and a 2330 AKL departure which would make HNL connections both ways better. The yields even on connections should be good due to lack of competition.

UA will be kicking themselves over canceling IAH-AKL. Typical of UA. They never consider what other carriers will do as a result of their actions
 
bohica
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
Air New Zealand currently performs heavy maintenance on Hawaiian's 767s. Is there a chance of this ceaseing now they are competitors?
Quoting HAL (Reply 25):
HA uses DL for a lot of maintenance, yet HA competes with DL on several routes. I don't see DL clamoring to end the contract, since they are making a profit on the business.

It may depend on what type of maintenance work that needs to be done that determines if DL or NZ performs it. Just a guess. Many airlines do maintenance work for competing airlines around the world. It is another source of revenue for them.

One benefit of HNL-AKL is that HA can send a 767 there for maintenance on a revenue flight instead of repositioning an empty airplane. Then HA can pick up the other 767 that's there (if there is one there) and fly it back revenue.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
Quoting HAL (Reply 25):
But offering a top-tier F product on most of thier flights (US mainland - Hawaii) would cost them dearly, because nobody would pay for it. Keeping a sub-fleet of fully configured first-class aircraft for longer-haul flights wouldn't be cost-effective either.

Other airlines with similar fleets to HA manage it. But as HA begins to expand into an increasingly transpac and international market, their product will probably need to change to match it.

I don't see any change in their premium product until the A350 comes onto their property. Then again maybe it won't change.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
JFK-HNL is the longest nonstop domestic flight in the world that doesn't pass over foreign territory

I apologize in advance for being nit-picky. The great circle route has JFK-HNL passing over Lake Erie. It is very possible, depending on routing, that the flight can pass over a small area in Canada.  
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Maybe a flight to Taipei?

My crystal ball is saying PEK and HKG.  
 
strfyr51
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 8):

Is LHR to AKL any closer than LHR-LAX- HNL-AKL or LHR- ORD- HNL- AKL?? The overall routing seems longer coming westbound
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:19 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 38):
UA will be kicking themselves over canceling IAH-AKL. Typical of UA. They never consider what other carriers will do as a result of their actions

How does IAH-AKL have anything to do with the HNL-AKL? Their totally different markets with a totally different purpose. HA would have announced HNL-AKL regardless of UA's decision to fly or not fly IAH-AKL.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:28 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 32):
d) Hawaiian can offer one-stop connections to San Diego, Las Vegas, Portland and Seattle, whereas with Air NZ you have to change terminals and carriers at LAX or SFO.

Admittedly, it's one-stop either way. And while switching terminals in LAX is always a "fun and exciting" experience, switching terminals at SFO is actually pretty easy. Either way, you have to go through US Customs at your port of entry, be it HNL, LAX, or SFO.

Quoting bohica (Reply 39):
I don't see any change in their premium product until the A350 comes onto their property. Then again maybe it won't change.

That had also occurred to me. The A330 is more optimized for mid-range flights, while the A350 is better optimized for longer routes. For that reason, they may decide to introduce a true international premium product (herringbone J or something similar) on the A350 once they are on-hand.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):

But most of their customers are leisure travelers who are unwilling to pay the premium necessary to justify a long-haul international product.

Common misconception. While HI is a large leisure market, they also have a lot of business traffic. Fares are high and many passengers on honeymoons and such WILL pay for a premium product. The stereotype of traffic to Hawaii consisting of middle-class Americans with bad perms, pot bellies, skinny dad legs, and loud Hawaiian shirts paying rock-bottom fares is way off the mark.

In fact, I know six people including myself who have been in Hawaii this year and four went on business. Not exacly a large N, I grant, but it makes a point about the sort of traffic there is.
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:54 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 38):
The flight to AKL doesnt have any connections from the USA. On the return LAX is a quick connection but the rest arent. The timings could move 2.5 hours to a later HNL and a 2330 AKL departure which would make HNL connections both ways better. The yields even on connections should be good due to lack of competition.

Thank you for the information and that makes a lot more sense. I was also wondering how quickly people could clear customs in PHNL? I agree that they would have a great network for travel to the western portion of the US as well as to New York with one stop in PHNL, which would not be a bad thing.. IMHO
 
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
While HI is a large leisure market, they also have a lot of business traffic. Fares are high and many passengers on honeymoons and such WILL pay for a premium product.

Sorry, but fares just aren't that high given the distance. I can fly LAX-HNL-LAX on HA with only a week's notice for $600 r/t. I can fly JFK-HNL for only $900 r/t with only a weeks notice and JFK-HNL is longer than most transatlantic flights from JFK to Europe. Given the distance of the flight that's not high yield. I've paid far more to fly routes like DCA-MEM and IAD-DFW which are far shorter flights.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
While HI is a large leisure market, they also have a lot of business traffic.

While there is some business traffic, it's mainly from the West Coast. There is little business traffic on routes like BNE-HNL, AKL-HNL or even JFK-HNL. These routes are catering overwhelmingly to leisure traffic. Even most of HA's competitors recognize this which is why UA launched IAD-HNL with a domestic bird and QF is converting it's SYD-HNL flights mostly to Jetstar.

Even HA knows the premium traffic is weak which is why they configure the A330's with 18 F seats and 276 Y seats....only 6% of seats are even F. That's a lower percentage of F seats than most short-haul mainline airlines offer domestically in the U.S.
 
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 44):
Sorry, but fares just aren't that high given the distance. I can fly LAX-HNL-LAX on HA with only a week's notice for $600 r/t. I can fly JFK-HNL for only $900 r/t with only a weeks notice and JFK-HNL is longer than most transatlantic flights from JFK to Europe

A more fair comparison would be to compare LAX-HNL to LAX-JFK. Both domestic flights of approximately the same length. The HNL flight generrally costs 50-75% more.

International flights are always significantly more expensive than domestic ones. SFO-SEA is a lot cheaper than SFO-YVR, even though the distance is less than 100 miles.
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
A more fair comparison would be to compare LAX-HNL to LAX-JFK. Both domestic flights of approximately the same length. The HNL flight generrally costs 50-75% more.

Yet even still, HA puts practically no F seats on their planes. Why do you think that is?

Here's the answer. While people will pay a bit more to go to Hawaii on leisure travel, there's not a significant number of people willing to pay the high premiums to get international flat-bed seating. The traffic isn't there and most carriers use aircraft that reflect it.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
International flights are always significantly more expensive than domestic ones.

Not necessarily. Leisure fares on JFK-LHR are dirt cheap for example. I can fly JFK-LHR next week for $800 r/t on DL. However, if I want to fly JFK-TLH (a vastly shorter domestic route next week), DL wants $750 r/t.
 
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
A more fair comparison would be to compare LAX-HNL to LAX-JFK. Both domestic flights of approximately the same length. The HNL flight generrally costs 50-75% more.

For fun here are the average yield stats. I'm using AA & UA as example airlines as they offer service in both pairs.

LAX-JFK
AA - 11.92
UA - 12.32

LAX-HNL
AA - 9.48
UA - 10.06

So its about 20% lower yield to Hawaii compared to NYC.


Doc, I think what you are confusing is the headline ticket price in your mind - lets say $500 to Hawaii, and $299 baragin basement special to NYC. But the problem is majority of folks dont pay that. JFK gets tons of $1000+ one-way premium and walk up fares, while Hawaii sells tons of $200/rt consolidator tickets for people on packages (think Pleasant Holidays etc..)
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 47):
the problem is majority of folks dont pay that. JFK gets tons of $1000+ one-way premium and walk up fares, while Hawaii sells tons of $200/rt consolidator tickets for people on packages (think Pleasant Holidays etc..)

Not to mention all the award tickets.
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RE: Hawaiian Announces HNL-AKL

Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
Interesting. I wonder how this will affect Air New Zealand and Hawaiian Airline's relationship. Air New Zealand currently performs heavy maintenance on Hawaiian's 767s. Is there a chance of this ceaseing now they are competitors?

It won't. AA and DL compete on a bunch of routes but Delta sends its T800(RR Trent 800) overhauls to TESAL.
also Delta does CFM56-7 work for AS, PW4000 work for AC and the HA work listed below just to name a few. Money is money even if it comes from the cross town rival.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 21):
However, I thought HA was shifting more towards contracting with DL for maintenance.

they have been some what. Just of the top of my head TechOps is doing full support of the A330 aircraft (not engines, which I believe are T700s for HA) and CF6 or PW4000 (can't remember which HA has) overhauls for the 767 fleet. Also Delta has been painting the HA 767s. (and Most back shops always seem to have something from HA.)
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