SCL767
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BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:14 pm

Recently, BA has shown an interest in resuming services to Santiago de Chile. Currently, four oneworld alliance carriers serve SCL. Besides oneworld member LAN, American Airlines serves SCL from DFW and MIA, Iberia serves SCL from MAD, and Qantas serves SCL from SYD.

Quote:
British Airways is to launch vital “trade routes” to the growing economies of the Far East and Latin America despite losing its battle for a third Heathrow runway...Mr Walsh said that some of the 42 slots would be allocated to direct services to fast-growing cities in China such as Guangzhou and Shenyang and South American destinations such as Santiago in Chile.
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Avianca
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:47 pm

sounds interesting, what other destinations in SouthAmerica are on the radar?

I think a CCS flight could be very profitable these days.

Also would be nice to see them back in Bog and of course a LIM flight would make a lot of scence.

cheers
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LX138
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:51 pm

Interesting, you do wonder weather SCL would happen though on BA equipment. It's a long way to send an aircraft from LHR and I'd question how much O&D traffic really exists. I'd imagine if O&D was less than 50%, the remaining connecting pax would keep yields low and the route wouldn't be viable.

Malaysian and Vietnam routes sound good, probably slightly more viable too.
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tonystan
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:15 pm

Just a hunch but I reckon if BA do return to SCL it will be via GRU.
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BA84
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting LX138 (Reply 2):
wonder whether SCL would happen though on BA equipment. It's a long way to send an aircraft from LHR

It would probably be an extension from EZE.
 
AF086
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:28 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 3):
Just a hunch but I reckon if BA do return to SCL it will be via GRU.

Why? GRU can sustain a flight to LHR all by itself so why reduce the seat offer there? Keep in mind that BA already flies GRU-LHR with the 744.

Perhaps BA could use these new slots to shift GIG-LHR to daily redeye both ways (like they do to EZE and GRU). Currently they serve GIG 6x weekly daylight southbound. It would increase the yields of the service since premium pax prefer redeye flights between Brazil and Europe.

As for SCL if BA doesn't try a dedicated nonstop service, perhaps a flight through BOG could work. The detour is small and it would link there two cities to LHR.

At BOG the flight could have feed from LA's subsidiary Aires (LAN Colombia) as well.
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SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:52 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
a LIM flight would make a lot of scence.

Indeed, traffic continues to grow rapidly at LIM and many pax and cargo connect to Asia via Europe. AF/KL are doing well at LIM and KL will soon increase capacity on the daily AMS-LIM route. AF will revert CDG-LIM back to 5x weekly next year.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 3):
Just a hunch but I reckon if BA do return to SCL it will be via GRU.

BA codeshares on LA's SCL-GRU route. Also, LA now codeshares on JJ's GRU-LHR and GIG-LHR routes.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 5):
As for SCL if BA doesn't try a dedicated nonstop service, perhaps a flight through BOG could work. The detour is small and it would link there two cities to LHR.

At BOG the flight could have feed from LA's subsidiary Aires (LAN Colombia) as well.

That won't happen as a SCL-BOG-LHR route would not attract premium customers from SCL! Right now, AF is making a killing on the CDG-SCL route due to the fact that it's the only carrier that offers a non-stop service to Europe with a plethora of connections via CDG; especially to Asia. That's why AF is increasing capacity on the daily CDG-SCL route.
 
Avianca
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
Indeed, traffic continues to grow rapidly at LIM and many pax and cargo connect to Asia via Europe. AF/KL are doing well at LIM and KL will soon increase capacity on the daily AMS-LIM route. AF will revert CDG-LIM back to 5x weekly next year.

increasing to what? every day 777-300?

well no doubt that cargo is increasing to Asia - but AF/KL are to expensive comparing to UA or LP interlining in LAX/SFO also the servcie is quite bad!

Also dont forget that KE is staring with the second weekly 74F frequenzy out of LIM ... also big bunch of the loads are doing to MIA and LAX.
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SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:03 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 7):
increasing to what? every day 777-300?

No, the B772 will operate 4x weekly and B77W will operate 3x weekly.
 
RAGAZZO777
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:04 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
sounds interesting, what other destinations in SouthAmerica are on the radar?

I think a CCS flight could be very profitable these days.

Also would be nice to see them back in Bog and of course a LIM flight would make a lot of scence.

Wouldn't it be nice if BA flew to BOG, LIM and SCL (all of them Oneworld hubs) ? 


.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
Indeed, traffic continues to grow rapidly at LIM and many pax and cargo connect to Asia via Europe. AF/KL are doing well at LIM and KL will soon increase capacity on the daily AMS-LIM route. AF will revert CDG-LIM back to 5x weekly next year.

That's right. KLM will deploy the 77W on the AMS-LIM route and AF will do the same on the CDG-SCL route this coming southern summer.  
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SJOtoLIR
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:36 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
I think a CCS flight could be very profitable these days

BA used to fly to Caracas in the past.
I didn't remember exactly when was it trimmed.
The coverage of BA is limited into the Latin American landscape as compared to other European carriers such as IB and AF/KL.

Regards.
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HB-IWC
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 3):
Just a hunch but I reckon if BA do return to SCL it will be via GRU.
Quoting BA84 (Reply 4):
It would probably be an extension from EZE.

On top of the other arguments offered here against routing any future SCL operation throuhg GRU or EZE, the original article clearly states that BA will be using some of its newly acquired slots for these services. If the airline were planning to tag the destination to an existing flight, then there would not be any need to use new slots for these services.

Whatever the setup of a potential SCL service may be, it will be in the form of a brand new flight and not a tag on to an existing flight.
 
PPVRA
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:00 am

I wonder how much the synergies achieved through IAG are helping this flight. . .
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SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12):
I wonder how much the synergies achieved through IAG are helping this flight. . .

Interesting to note that BA does codeshare with IB on the MAD-SCL route; which has not helped IB to increase its LFs on the route...
 
Motorhussy
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:58 am

Why not a less conventional route like LHR-Belem-SCL?
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:40 am

Perhaps a goos route for a new 788 next year?
 
migair54
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:42 am

Interesting.

However I don´t see this happening with BA planes, using slots and also a couple of planes to serve such a distant destination.... it must be very high yield place to be profitable. And I don´t think BA can achieve any profit in the route if they go direct.

However we might see LAN flying to London in the future with the B787, but right now even that is highly unlikely given the 2 daily to MAD and plenty of fast connection to LHR. But why not getting a slice of the Kangaroo route flowing via SCL??? I know it´s longer but i´m sure they can get some pax.
 
SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:04 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
Whatever the setup of a potential SCL service may be, it will be in the form of a brand new flight and not a tag on to an existing flight.

That is correct. LHR offers more connectivity; especially to destinations in Asia compared to MAD.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 16):
However we might see LAN flying to London in the future with the B787, but right now even that is highly unlikely given the 2 daily to MAD and plenty of fast connection to LHR.

IMO, we will most likely see LA operating to BCN and FCO either as non-stop services from SCL and/or via Brazil with the B-787s in the future.
 
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:07 am

Hmmm going via EZE might be the way forward. Due to very strained relations with Argentina at the moment, the economic demand for the route is sure diminishing so any way to fill up seats may be an attarctive way to keep it afloat.
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SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:13 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 18):
Hmmm going via EZE might be the way forward. Due to very strained relations with Argentina at the moment, the economic demand for the route is sure diminishing so any way to fill up seats may be an attarctive way to keep it afloat.

A tag-on via EZE will only increase BA's costs in resuming services to SCL. Besides, LA operates SCL-EZE 50x weekly; thus connections are already available.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:55 am

Assuming the new combined LAN / TAM stays in Oneworld, it is almost inevitable that there will be a direct nonstop LHR - SCL link.

A major business objective of airline alliances is to leverage connections of partner airlines and this surely cannot be maximised without an expedient BA hub to LAN hub connection.
 
mikey72
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:13 am

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 20):
Assuming the new combined LAN / TAM stays in Oneworld, it is almost inevitable that there will be a direct nonstop LHR - SCL link.

Yes and what about BOG as a CCS tag-on like before ?

Is LIM likely ?

Ooh I love South America....I may have to dig out my poncho and claves and go off on an adventure.

Would you all miss me ?
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SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:34 am

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 20):
Assuming the new combined LAN / TAM stays in Oneworld, it is almost inevitable that there will be a direct nonstop LHR - SCL link.

BA could launch the route anytime since it has access to more slots at LHR after acquiring BMI. However, LATAM has not officially joined OW. LAN will most likely stay in OW and TAM may remain unaligned for an unspecified period. LATAM has indicated that it intends to increase long-haul flights from certain hubs, including GRU and GIG, and will launch new routes from Brazil next year. LATAM has also shown an interest in participating in the privatisation of TAP.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 21):
Yes and what about BOG as a CCS tag-on like before

IMO, LHR-BOG would do well. However, LAN Colombia is not an affiliate member of OW and IB continues to codeshare with Avianca.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 13):
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12):I wonder how much the synergies achieved through IAG are helping this flight. . .

Interesting to note that BA does codeshare with IB on the MAD-SCL route; which has not helped IB to increase its LFs on the route...

But then IB offer a fairly unpleasant service, so maybe more people prefer to take LAN on the MAD-SCL route instead!
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LX138
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:20 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 20):
Assuming the new combined LAN / TAM stays in Oneworld, it is almost inevitable that there will be a direct nonstop LHR - SCL link.

A major business objective of airline alliances is to leverage connections of partner airlines and this surely cannot be maximised without an expedient BA hub to LAN hub connection.

True, but at the end of the day it's O&D bums on seats they will need. For connection traffic - ones probably going to have to lower expectations on the number of Spanish, Portuguese and possibly even Italian originating passengers because of the need to backtrack, and it's people from these areas that are likely to make up the largest proportion of connections (unless anyone wants to correct me). It might be the German, French and Scandinavians that make it work though (and of course the traffic from the other end - ex SCL).
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LH526
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:38 pm

If true, that would make it three direct/nonstop oneworld connections Europe-SCL (IB, LA and BA)
... and not a single Star Alliance flight!
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jfk777
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:40 pm

Considering Buenos Aires is the longest nonstop sector BA flies from LHR, Santiago is hard to imagine. One industry such a flight would work for is minning and that industry is going into contraction. Australia may be going into recession from the last decade of boom the minning industry has had in that country. With all the connecting possibilities over Madrid, Miami, JFK, GRU and EZE BA can join up with LAN in many places. This would work better as a LAN flown route.
 
MAV88
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:52 pm

How is BA able to maintain such a large network to North America and such a small one to South America? I am going to assume the demand for them is higher to NA, but South America has to have some good demand too.
 
eastern023
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:16 pm

Quoting BA84 (Reply 4):
It would probably be an extension from EZE.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 18):
Hmmm going via EZE might be the way forward. Due to very strained relations with Argentina at the moment, the economic demand for the route is sure diminishing
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
the original article clearly states that BA will be using some of its newly acquired slots for these services. If the airline were planning to tag the destination to an existing flight, then there would not be any need to use new slots for these services.



Like HB-IWC said. The original article talks about a new slot, in other words it would be a brand new flight....I think BA may be going after AF since they are making a killing on the SCL-CDG route, so my vote is that it would be a SCL-LHR nonstop flight. If the flight was to include a stop in route, it would probably be in northern Brazil, definitely not BOG like SCL767 mentioned...

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 6):
That won't happen as a SCL-BOG-LHR route would not attract premium customers from SCL! Right now, AF is making a killing on the CDG-SCL route due to the fact that it's the only carrier that offers a non-stop service to Europe with a plethora of connections via CDG; especially to Asia
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
That is correct. LHR offers more connectivity; especially to destinations in Asia compared to MAD.


Not to mention the horrendous "Y" service that IB offers on the SCL-MAD route (A la AA on the SCL-USA routes), IB has had so much bad publicity in Chile along with the problems that Chilean citizens have had entering Spain obviously propelled the AF flight...BA/OneWorld might be shifting some connections at MAD to LHR to counter attack.

Quoting lh526 (Reply 25):
If true, that would make it three direct/nonstop oneworld connections Europe-SCL (IB, LA and BA)
... and not a single Star Alliance flight!

Yup, I still thought that LH (or LX) would be the first to open back SCL, especially due to TAM impending Star departure...who knows LH/LX might still have something up their sleeve...I guess nothing is set in stone until there is a plane landed at SCL.
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jfk777
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 27):
How is BA able to maintain such a large network to North America and such a small one to South America

Most of North America is much closer to LHR then Chile is, most about half as far. LAX, which is the longest route from the USA to LHR, is 3 hours closer then then 14 hours SCL to LHR would be and most BA gateways in the USA are east of the Mississippi River. Then there is the cultural issues.

Latin America and the English speaking world have always looked at each other strangely. Spain for cultural reasons is the country many Latins go to first since they speak the language. France is usualy the country most Latins go to second since French and Spanish are close culturally. England just didn't have empire in deep Latin America, they did have a lot in the Caribean. BA's network is to the important cities of Latin America, but its Partner in the merger is Iberia, so it has to feed the Madrid hub to the lesser IB destinations in the Southern Americas.
 
mikey72
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 28):
The original article talks about a new slot, in other words it would be a brand new flight

When I think about the hoops that BA had to jump through to get the AA anti-trust and the BD acquisition....!

Even the IB merger was fair game for some.

So much lost time that neither BA and certainly AA could afford.

Those new aircraft can't come soon enough.
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LX138
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:21 pm

I think actually it could be a good one for the 787.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 29):
Most of North America is much closer to LHR then Chile is, most about half as far. LAX, which is the longest route from the USA to LHR

I think SAN-LHR is longer  
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SJOtoLIR
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
That is correct. LHR offers more connectivity; especially to destinations in Asia compared to MAD.

How competitive is the LA-CX commercial pact for connections to Asia originated in Santiago de Chile as compared to IB-SCL-MAD-Asia?
If BA will launch the intended service to SCL, I don't think it would operate on a daily basis.

Regards.
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SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 32):
How competitive is the LA-CX commercial pact for connections to Asia originated in Santiago de Chile as compared to IB-SCL-MAD-Asia?

There's absolutely no competition since IB does not fly to the Far East.
 
tonystan
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:14 am

Quoting AF086 (Reply 5):
Why? GRU can sustain a flight to LHR all by itself so why reduce the seat offer there? Keep in mind that BA already flies GRU-LHR with the 744.

Wel the GRU has only been going on its own a little over a year now. Previously to that it operated onwards to EZE. Also a vast amount of passengers on this flight are transferring onto the BA codeshare service operated by LAN to SCL. So thats just my hunch!

However as someone has said, it is claimed that they will be using a new slot for it so perhaps it will be a stand alone service. If so I reckon however that it will not start until the 787 arrives as it probably has the best capacity and range for the route!
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steve6666
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 34):
Wel the GRU has only been going on its own a little over a year now. Previously to that it operated onwards to EZE. Also a vast amount of passengers on this flight are transferring onto the BA codeshare service operated by LAN to SCL. So thats just my hunch!

Yesteday morning G-CIVC arrived in Sao Paulo as the fourth mid-J 747 of the year. So for the other 196-odd days of the year thus far they have sent (and largely managed to fill) 70 business class seats. My boss flew back here Saturday night from London - every available seat taken apparently, and let's not forget that a fully flexible business class seat is over GBP 6,000 plus taxes so the yields aren't exactly bad.

Summer and winter there is about 10.5 hours to turn the thing around - sending it on an ~8 hour flying time trip to SCL and back makes that very tight, or put another way, means it won't get back to LHR at 07:20 in the morning.

So why throw a spanner in the works sending it on to SCL? SCL, yes, very possible especially with the B787, but I would almost stake my mortgage on it not being an extension of BA246/247.
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tonystan
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 35):

Yesteday morning G-CIVC arrived in Sao Paulo as the fourth mid-J 747 of the year. So for the other 196-odd days of the year thus far they have sent (and largely managed to fill) 70 business class seats. My boss flew back here Saturday night from London - every available seat taken apparently, and let's not forget that a fully flexible business class seat is over GBP 6,000 plus taxes so the yields aren't exactly bad.

Summer and winter there is about 10.5 hours to turn the thing around - sending it on an ~8 hour flying time trip to SCL and back makes that very tight, or put another way, means it won't get back to LHR at 07:20 in the morning.

So why throw a spanner in the works sending it on to SCL? SCL, yes, very possible especially with the B787, but I would almost stake my mortgage on it not being an extension of BA246/247.

Sorry you dont like my hunch, I did say it was only a hunch!

Do BA actually have anything at present which could make SCL nonstop without restrictions?
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RAGAZZO777
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 36):
Do BA actually have anything at present which could make SCL nonstop without restrictions?

Yes, they do. It's the Boeing 777-200ER.
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eastern023
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:27 pm

Would we ever see maybe a decrease of IB MAD-SCL-MAD in favor of the LHR-SCL-LHR flight? Does IB has a smaller airplane that has the pants to fly the route? (my guess is no...) So the smaller they can go its the A343..right?

Another question: Does AF fly SCL-CDG with any restriction on the 77L & 77W?

Thanks!

[Edited 2012-07-17 12:30:59]
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IrishAyes
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 38):
Would we ever see maybe a decrease of IB MAD-SCL-MAD in favor of the LHR-SCL-LHR flight? Does IB has a smaller airplane that has the pants to fly the route? (my guess is no...) So the smaller they can go its the A343..right?

IB is only offering a daily flight between SCL and MAD, so why would they want to decrease it further? Especially because it appears that LA is similarly keeping SCLMAD at a single daily frequency this year even in the high season.

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 28):
Yup, I still thought that LH (or LX) would be the first to open back SCL, especially due to TAM impending Star departure...who knows LH/LX might still have something up their sleeve...I guess nothing is set in stone until there is a plane landed at SCL.

It's possible, but I think LH has its eyes set on LIM before SCL. Definitely a lot of opportunity in LIM given the entry of TA into Star.

I don't know what the future holds in store for Star Alliance at Santiago. There is virtually zero Star presence in the Chile-Europe corridor, sans for AC via YYZ and AV via BOG. Not even UA provides a link to Europe from SCL.

Now, at this stage in the game, LAN has not announced any new routes that will see the 787 once the deliveries come through in a few weeks, which certainly isn't a major deterrent for a new European entrant. I for one thought that LAN would operate SCLFRA at the drop of the hat, eliminating the MAD stopover, but I was proven wrong.

So, for a carrier such as LH, the question is: nonstop, tag-on, or nothing at all? The tag-on situation turned out to be very costly. It has been three years since LX exited SCL, but so much has changed in that period. GOL has dropped its services to Santiago, and TAM is leaving Star. Therefore, in a short matter of time, the only player on the very important SCLGRU corridor will be LATAM. Alternatively, LH could look into adding SCLGIG as a tag-on.

We will just have to see.
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SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 39):
Especially because it appears that LA is similarly keeping SCLMAD at a single daily frequency this year even in the high season.

LAN views Australia and New Zealand as stronger markets from SCL and plans to add more flights into AKL and SYD during the high season with the A343s.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 39):
Now, at this stage in the game, LAN has not announced any new routes that will see the 787 once the deliveries come through in a few weeks, which certainly isn't a major deterrent for a new European entrant. I for one thought that LAN would operate SCLFRA at the drop of the hat, eliminating the MAD stopover, but I was proven wrong.

LAN has not even loaded its initial B-787 routes as yet...

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 39):
Therefore, in a short matter of time, the only player on the very important SCLGRU corridor will be LATAM.

That is incorrect as LATAM will release 4 daily slot pairs at GRU for new entrants to launch non-stop flights between GRU and SCL. It should be noted that the slot pairs are only available to carriers, "who do not have any corporate links or other agreements that will allow LATAM to influence them in any relevant way".

[Edited 2012-07-17 14:08:53]
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:57 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 40):
LAN has not even loaded its initial B-787 routes as yet...

Which is precisely why I used the word, "announced" because that is as official as it has become...

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 40):
That is incorrect as LATAM will release 4 daily slot pairs at GRU for new entrants to launch non-stop flights between GRU and SCL. It should be noted that the slot pairs are only available to carriers, "who do not have any corporate links or other agreements that will allow LATAM to influence them in any relevant way".

You are right, I forgot about this, thank you for mentioning it.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:16 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 41):
Which is precisely why I used the word, "announced" because that is as official as it has become...

LAN has "announced" the destinations which the B-787-8s will service during its first year of operations. However, LAN could receive more than 5 B-787-8s through 2013. Also, other destinations could be announced at a later date; as LAN may see opportunities elsewhere...

We discussed this before: LAN Airlines Interested In Serving Barcelona (by SCL767 May 15 2012 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2012-07-17 15:20:11]
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:34 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 29):
Quoting MAV88 (Reply 27):
How is BA able to maintain such a large network to North America and such a small one to South America

Most of North America is much closer to LHR then Chile is, most about half as far. LAX, which is the longest route from the USA to LHR, is 3 hours closer then then 14 hours SCL to LHR would be and most BA gateways in the USA are east of the Mississippi River. Then there is the cultural issues.

Latin America and the English speaking world have always looked at each other strangely. Spain for cultural reasons is the country many Latins go to first since they speak the language. France is usualy the country most Latins go to second since French and Spanish are close culturally. England just didn't have empire in deep Latin America, they did have a lot in the Caribean. BA's network is to the important cities of Latin America, but its Partner in the merger is Iberia, so it has to feed the Madrid hub to the lesser IB destinations in the Southern Americas.

Another factor is that the U.S. and Canada are Open Skies markets with no restrictions on routes, frequencies, capacity, 5th freedom rights etc. Most South America bilaterals are still very restrictive.

Most North American destinations are also close enough that you can operate a daily round trip with just one aircraft. That can't be done to most points in South America.
 
SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):
Most South America bilaterals are still very restrictive.

Can you explain what you mean by "very restrictive"? Many European carriers have served Chile via Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, etc. in the past. Certain European carriers served Argentina via Brazil in the past as well. Also, some South American countries already have Open Skies with the E.U.
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 44):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):
Most South America bilaterals are still very restrictive.

Can you explain what you mean by "very restrictive"? Many European carriers have served Chile via Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, etc. in the past. Certain European carriers served Argentina via Brazil in the past as well. Also, some South American countries already have Open Skies with the E.U.

Yes, many European carriers have served many points in South America in the past (I wasn't referring specifically to Chile which I'm aware is very liberal in its aviation policies), but under far more restrictive conditions than under an Open Skies agreement. For example, most tradtional bilaterals don't permit unrestricted 5th freedom rights. They also usually limit the number of carriers from each country that can operate (frequently just one).
 
SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:21 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 45):
Yes, many European carriers have served many points in South America in the past (I wasn't referring specifically to Chile which I'm aware is very liberal in its aviation policies), but under far more restrictive conditions than under an Open Skies agreement. For example, most tradtional bilaterals don't permit unrestricted 5th freedom rights. They also usually limit the number of carriers from each country that can operate (frequently just one).

Certain South American countries have changed their aviation policies recently. For example, Brazil and the EU signed an Open Skies Agreement last year that will allow all EU carriers to operate direct flights to any destination in Brazil from any city in Europe without restrictions and with Fifth Freedom Rights to certain countries in South America.

[Edited 2012-07-17 16:22:49]
 
tonystan
Posts: 1332
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:22 am

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 37):
Yes, they do. It's the Boeing 777-200ER

Only just. Throw in a strong headwind into the equation and you are operating with restrictions!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
SCL767
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RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:49 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 47):
Only just. Throw in a strong headwind into the equation and you are operating with restrictions!

The LHR-SCL route would operate with the B744 3 or 4 times weekly; similar to QF's operations on the SYD-SCL route. BA may even launch the route by the end of this year and would capture traffic that would normally travel on AF. AF is doing very well on the CDG-SCL route; however those days will be numbered should BA launch the route!
 
tonystan
Posts: 1332
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

RE: BA Interested In Resuming Services To Santiago

Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:50 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 48):

The LHR-SCL route would operate with the B744 3 or 4 times weekly; similar to QF's operations on the SYD-SCL route. BA may even launch the route by the end of this year and would capture traffic that would normally travel on AF. AF is doing very well on the CDG-SCL route; however those days will be numbered should BA launch the route!

Would it operate with the 744 now? lol! Not sure they have any to spare right now. As an "insider" I reckon this will be a launch route for the B787 although I have heard far more pressing rumours of other route launches before SCL comes on the cards!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.

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