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LAXintl
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Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:19 pm

In addition to the new DFW-SJD which I posted prior, Spirit Airlines will add 5 additional markets from Dallas/Ft. Worth.

Ft. Myers - Effective Nov 8 - 3x weekly
New Orleans - Effective Jan 24 - daily, goes 2x daily in June
Minneapolis - Effective Apr 26 - 4x weekly
Philadelphia - Effective Apr 26 - 4x weekly, goes daily in June
Latrobe - Effective Jun 14 - 3x weekly

This will take them to over 20 destinations from DFW !


Story:
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/ne...t-announces-6-new-planned-dfw.html

=
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nkops
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:22 pm

Haha.. you beat me by 2 minutes.....

PHL kind of a blow to ACY I think, but seem to be going after AA business routes on some of these
:evil:
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:29 pm

wow that is quite amazing of all the destinations they will swrve via DFW. at one point will need more room?
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:29 pm

I'll give them six months before half these routes are axed.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 3):
I'll give them six months before half these routes are axed.

Yep

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 2):
wow that is quite amazing of all the destinations they will swrve via DFW. at one point will need more room?

Probably no time in the foreseeable future. Most of their flights are not frequent enough to see more than 1 or 2 NK planes on the ground at the gate at DFW.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
usflyguy
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:00 pm

Quoting nkops (Reply 1):
seem to be going after AA business routes on some of these

3 or 4 weekly flights isn't going after business routes.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
eagle125
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 2):
at one point will need more room?

If NK ever decides to increase the frequency on any of these, or current, routes, there's always the Terminal E satellite. But they have been overlapping with DL and F9 gates @ E during peak hours (11:00PM CST!), eliminating that need...But I don't expect NK to keep all of these routes in the long run.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Minneapolis - Effective Apr 26 - 4x weekly

MSP (and possibly CUN) could be a big blow for SY in DFW
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HPRamper
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting eagle125 (Reply 6):
MSP (and possibly CUN) could be a big blow for SY in DFW

It's unfortunate that with the entry of NK into the MSP market, the much-loved but tiny SY has more to lose than anyone else.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting nkops (Reply 1):
but seem to be going after AA business routes on some of these
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 2):
wow that is quite amazing of all the destinations they will swrve via DFW. at one point will need more room?

It doesn't matter how large the portfolio of destinations is from DFW - the fact remains that NK is flying to most of these only once a day. There will be no immediate need to expand.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7):
It's unfortunate that with the entry of NK into the MSP market, the much-loved but tiny SY has more to lose than anyone else.

And one has to wonder if SY shouldn't have been more aggressive at DFW.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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gdg9
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
This will take them to over 20 destinations from DFW !

26 according to NK's press release.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 8):
It doesn't matter how large the portfolio of destinations is from DFW - the fact remains that NK is flying to most of these only once a day. There will be no immediate need to expand.

Interesting approach, they can pick off those looking for the lowest fares on some of these cities who would otherwise have to take AA in many cases. It seems to be working well for them too, LFs around 90%. NK seems to have done well with the departure of FL.
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yellowtail
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Looking at the glass half full, I am sure AA would much rather see a NK set up shop at DFW than say someone like B6 or a VA That can really steal the higher yield pax.

There is so much (perceived) product differentiation between AA and NK that most of AA's loyal FF base will never go over to NK.

NK is more likely pulling people off of WN at DAL or the bus.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
spiritair97
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Ft. Myers - Effective Nov 8 - 3x weekly
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Minneapolis - Effective Apr 26 - 4x weekly

Unless it is because of fleet shortage, I'm sure that these markets could support at least a daily rotation.
 
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gdg9
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:52 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 12):
Unless it is because of fleet shortage, I'm sure that these markets could support at least a daily rotation.

I would have to think so as well.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9):
And one has to wonder if SY shouldn't have been more aggressive at DFW.

Good point. I'm surprised Volaris hasn't come in yet to pick up some of the Mexicana DFW-MEX flights.
@dfwtower
 
HPRamper
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9):
And one has to wonder if SY shouldn't have been more aggressive at DFW.

I don't think SY has the financial wherewithal to do anything other than token route adds. They got two new planes this year and it was a *big* deal, now they have what, 14 total planes?
 
freakyrat
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting eagle 125.

If NK ever decides to increase the frequency on any of these, or current, routes, there's always the Terminal E satellite. But they have been overlapping with DL and F9 gates @ E during peak hours (11:00PM CST!), eliminating that need...But I don't expect NK to keep all of these routes in the long run.

The Terminal E satellite is being prepared for reopening while they remodel sections of Terminal E.
 
commavia
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting nkops (Reply 1):
seem to be going after AA business routes on some of these

Doubtful. Some of these routes themselves may well have lots of business travel, but Spirit isn't catering to it and won't get it - at least not all but a tiny portion of it. Spirit caters to the absolutely most cost-conscious, price-sensitive, demand-elastic travel market, not business travelers who demand global access, upgrades and schedule flexibility.

Quoting eagle125 (Reply 6):
MSP (and possibly CUN) could be a big blow for SY in DFW

  

Would be sad to see them go - I enjoy seeing their 738s at D.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7):
It's unfortunate that with the entry of NK into the MSP market, the much-loved but tiny SY has more to lose than anyone else.

Now that you mention it, MSP as a market looks a lot like DFW - high fares, and a dominant hub carrier. I suspect Spirit could do at MSP what it has done at DFW.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
Looking at the glass half full, I am sure AA would much rather see a NK set up shop at DFW than say someone like B6 or a VA That can really steal the higher yield pax.

There is so much (perceived) product differentiation between AA and NK that most of AA's loyal FF base will never go over to NK.

Oh absolutely. Again - Spirit is going after such a vastly different market than AA that the two virtually don't overlap, and thus this is likely having little to no effect on AA. If anything, Spirit is pulling away from AA - in addition to stimulating new ultra-price-conscious demand - the most price-conscious of AA's customers. Given that AA is in bankruptcy and wants to shed more capacity anyway, this is likely traffic AA was already in the process of dumping anyway.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
NK is more likely pulling people off of WN at DAL or the bus.

Yep. If anybody should be unhappy about this, it's Southwest. I doubt Spirit is taking all too many Southwest customers, but I do think that Spirit is doing some of the market-stimulation that Southwest likely was hoping to do post-Wright in 2014. If anything, Spirit's customer set overlaps far more with Southwest's than AA's.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:49 am

curious I see there are some naysayers about how long some of these routes will last....has NK dropped any of its routes announced at DFW so far?
 
coffeepilot
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:03 am

MSY-DFW should do really well. Market has 550+ Pdews before any stimulation. For $40 bucks I'd come out the wood work to fly it and just about any other route NK adds from MSY.
 
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enilria
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 3):
I'll give them six months before half these routes are axed.
Quoting usflyguy (Reply 5):
3 or 4 weekly flights isn't going after business routes.

Some will go, but I think NK is in a rush to add as much as possible before AA emerges. If US wins out, they will lower the boom on NK. It'll be interesting to see the US response on PHL.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 10):
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
This will take them to over 20 destinations from DFW !

26 according to NK's press release.

I suspect some are seasonal.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 17):
curious I see there are some naysayers about how long some of these routes will last....has NK dropped any of its routes announced at DFW so far?

Nope, don't think so. OTOH, ORD has seen several short-lived flights.

I'm wondering if they are just going to shutdown FLL at some point. LOL. It seems like it is far from a priority.
 
Beechtobus
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:28 am

Did DFW-BOS not get the axe? I know it goes to daytime hours in sept but I thought it ended soon after.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
but I do think that Spirit is doing some of the market-stimulation that Southwest likely was hoping to do post-Wright in 2014

They're getting ahead of WN left and right, and their costs and fares can't be touched by WN. Tough break.

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
. If US wins out, they will lower the boom on NK. It'll be interesting to see the US response on PHL.

Lots of ex-US at NK too

Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
I'm wondering if they are just going to shutdown FLL at some point

It's interesting to see the former business plan just waste away slowly while they add DFWLBE instead of anything at FLL

[Edited 2012-07-16 18:34:34]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
eagle125
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:34 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 12):
Unless it is because of fleet shortage, I'm sure that these markets could support at least a daily rotation.

Given the rate they are adding destinations to DFW, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. PHL and MSP upgrade to daily next June.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 17):
has NK dropped any of its routes announced at DFW so far?
Quoting beechtobus (Reply 20):
Did DFW-BOS not get the axe? I know it goes to daytime hours in sept but I thought it ended soon after.
BOS does end November 7th for the winter season until April 24th. The way NK's system is set up, meaning low frequencies and small fleet, there is a very fine line between hit and miss.

[Edited 2012-07-16 19:04:57]
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kcrwflyer
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting eagle125 (Reply 22):

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 12):
Unless it is because of fleet shortage, I'm sure that these markets could support at least a daily rotation.

Given the rate they are adding destinations to DFW, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. PHL and MSP upgrade to daily next June.

Their website is selling PHL daily starting next June.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
It's interesting to see the former business plan just waste away slowly while they add DFWLBE instead of anything at FLL

Interesting indeed, but I don't think there is a ton of low hanging fruit left from FLL. I bet pilots are loving the 100ft. wide runway up at LBE.
 
flyboynk
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:48 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
Quoting enilria (Reply 19):
I'm wondering if they are just going to shutdown FLL at some point

It's interesting to see the former business plan just waste away slowly while they add DFWLBE instead of anything at FLL

Nothing to do with bad or low yields at FLL... but it has everything to do with the limits imposed due to construction of the 9R 27L runway and airport modifications including the New Int'l terminal that will be built over the next few years...

NK will lose two gates in Terminal 4 (H gates) and get two in terminal 3 (F Gates) during construction , growth at FLL for NK will be severely restricted for about the next 4 yrs... then they will expand when the runway is completed and new terminal... Add the new A320 NEO that start deliveries in 2016 with more range than today's A320's then more south expansion will/should occur
Flyboynk
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:53 am

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 24):

Nothing to do with bad or low yields at FLL... but it has everything to do with the limits imposed due to construction of the 9R 27L runway and airport modifications including the New Int'l terminal that will be built over the next few years..

They've been down in capacity for years...this isn't a new construction related pulldown.
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a318
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:07 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Ft. Myers - Effective Nov 8 - 3x weekly
New Orleans - Effective Jan 24 - daily, goes 2x daily in June
Minneapolis - Effective Apr 26 - 4x weekly
Philadelphia - Effective Apr 26 - 4x weekly, goes daily in June
Latrobe - Effective Jun 14 - 3x weekly

Latrobe effective June 14th? Isn't that a bit far into the future? Or am I reading something incorrectly?

Also, how do the pairings work? Isn't FLL their only base? Or did I miss something else? (Forgive me, I moved to Spain and have been out of the loop for a bit).
Welcome aboard!
 
flyboynk
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 25):
Quoting flyboynk (Reply 24):

Nothing to do with bad or low yields at FLL... but it has everything to do with the limits imposed due to construction of the 9R 27L runway and airport modifications including the New Int'l terminal that will be built over the next few years..

They've been down in capacity for years...this isn't a new construction related pulldown.

Actually that is incorrect, if the capacity came down it was when they returned 7 A319's a few years back when fuel was reaching the $150 a barrel area.... nothing to do with FLL itself, system wide NK downsized about 5-6 yrs ago... but now in the last 3 yrs they have ramped up in the midwest/west even up north.

Problem is, they have shifted some aircraft from FLL to LAS and DFW but this is due to the limitations at FLL right now and in the near future. You can't add more flights headed south and southwest without adding more connecting flight going north and northwest atleast with the current gate bank/slot setup while providing the highest yields

Grow where the money is, and the money right now is DFW and LAS that allows rapid or steady growth NK wants. If NK had the gates and aircraft they would continue to grow FLL (which will happen in the future) FLL right now for NK simply does not and will not allow NK to do what it wants to do until around 2016/2017... by then Immigration and Customs will hopefully run 24/7 which right now does not allow NK to operate all the redeye international flights it wants. Add more gates, 24/7 customs/imm and widebody gates FLL is certainly a place where NK will grow again in time but not for a few years

[Edited 2012-07-16 19:47:48]
Flyboynk
 
flyboynk
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
It's interesting to see the former business plan just waste away slowly while they add DFWLBE instead of anything at FLL

The LBE airport authorities came out last week and publicly stated that they have been talk to NK officials about adding more destinations/flights from LBE... LBE was continuing talks with the area/city commissioner's about building a new terminal and upgrading various airport amenities.

I figure LBE will get NK service to another city in the near future but not sure which one...

The former business plan is alive and well but it does change when necessary. Overall yes from the outside and even from the inside you scratch your head at times, quite often actually... but NK has been generating and will continue to generate growth / yields / profits making customers and shareholders very happy.
Flyboynk
 
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RWA380
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:10 am

Quoting A318 (Reply 26):
Also, how do the pairings work? Isn't FLL their only base? Or did I miss something else? (Forgive me, I moved to Spain and have been out of the loop for a bit).

They have been adding routes to and from DFW for a while, I wonder why they are announcing routes so far in advance? Take a look at the spirit air route map, DFW is becoming a new hub for NK operations, I'm not surprised someone is taking interest in ops at DFW. As stated earlier, I doubt NK is going to take much from AA except low end fliers anyway.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:20 am

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 27):

Actually that is incorrect, if the capacity came down it was when they returned 7 A319's a few years back when fuel was reaching the $150 a barrel area....

FLL departures are down a third since their peak in Summer 2008. That is way more than many other carriers at FLL; B6 has practically doubled in the same time and DL/WN are flat. This isn't just a distant fuel spike, or construction, and set against what they're adding elsewhere, it's a clear sign that the appetite for growth is outside of FLL.

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 27):
Grow where the money is, and the money right now is DFW and LAS that allows rapid or steady growth NK wants

Sounds to me like "grow anywhere but in FLL". I mean AZA for chrissakes...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
flyboynk
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:47 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
Quoting flyboynk (Reply 27):

Actually that is incorrect, if the capacity came down it was when they returned 7 A319's a few years back when fuel was reaching the $150 a barrel area....

FLL departures are down a third since their peak in Summer 2008. That is way more than many other carriers at FLL; B6 has practically doubled in the same time and DL/WN are flat. This isn't just a distant fuel spike, or construction, and set against what they're adding elsewhere, it's a clear sign that the appetite for growth is outside of FLL.

Why do you think the grow right now is outside of FLL ? Why the appetite elsewhere? Because they can't grow anymore at FLL in recent yrs (2010/2011/2012) and in the next few years in ideal situations.

When JetBlue moved over to Terminal 3, NK had been negotiating with the FLL airport authority to get all the gates in the F concourse and wait for the airport to build a connecting walkway between Terminals 3 and 4 airside (this will be completed in the near future)... eventually JetBlue moved over allowing JetBlue it's growth (increase in gates) while NK has not increased gates. Add that fact more Int'l flights arriving now than a few years ago at Terminal 4 from other carriers affects NK as well... So once again it's not that they want to grow elsewhere first, it's just FLL has not been the ideal or will be for a few years to allow the growth NK wants.

It's funny to see someone who doesn't work for them try and convince someone who does work for them on what's going on... you are missing the point on FLL

About AZA, NK will continue to add service to more destinations (quite a few more on the way) if it restricted on it's grow at an airport or change course if yields are not ideal...
For example, ORD has limited gate space for NK (at it's current cost structure ie: acquiring more gates $$$) so yes other destinations are added, DCA will move operations to BWI due to the restrictions at DCA not allowing NK to grow when it where it wants to fly...NK today has 42 aircraft, expecting 68 by end of 2015 and ordered 75 more last year. by 2021 will have between 113 (based on 30 leases ending by 2021) up to 143 aircraft (full order)... If NK cannot grow at FLL due to lack of gates/ proper slots for profitable routes then of course new aircraft have to fly else where. FLL Terminal 4 is a mess at 7 pm on any given day due to Int'l flights (just talking about NK) and domestic inbound outbound flights. As we all know, the airport was not made for Int'l connecting flights. Resources are being stretched to the max right now...

By 2021 you will see NK possibly double in size at FLL including A330 service with service to Europe and South America. This is not something new as talks have been on going for about 2 to 2 1/2 yrs now about future aircraft... like I said not right now but it will grow again when NK operations allow the most profitable routes and slots/banks

[Edited 2012-07-16 20:49:50]

[Edited 2012-07-16 20:54:59]
Flyboynk
 
santi319
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:49 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
FLL departures are down a third since their peak in Summer 2008. That is way more than many other carriers at FLL; B6 has practically doubled in the same time and DL/WN are flat. This isn't just a distant fuel spike, or construction, and set against what they're adding elsewhere, it's a clear sign that the appetite for growth is outside of FLL.

Comparing now to 2008, is not fair, if you were there back then you would understand what a complete and utter disaster that was. FLL T4 simply cannot manage more operations than the ones they currently have. And say what you say about B6 but besides SJU and NAS they haven't really made a shocking entrance in regards to FLL Int'l ops...
 
flyboynk
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:57 am

If you look at Spirit's route map and the 50 largest metropolitan areas just in the US that NK does not serve yet based on largest urban areas:

Seattle *
St Louis *
San Antonio * (used to fly there)
Sacramento
Cincinnati
Cleveland (don't see it happening)
Kansas City
San Jose (too close to OAK?)
Charlotte *
Austin *
Indianapolis
Virginia Beach
Nashville
Providence (I think Hartford would be a better fit)
Milwaukee
Jacksonville
Memphis
Louisville
Oklahoma City
Richmond
Hartford
Raleigh
Salt Lake City
Birmingham

5 in the top 10 metropolitan areas not served yet keeping popping up in chatter about new cities or return to old cities served before

If you add Canada and Mexico then the list grows even larger, I can see 5 or 6 destinations in Mexico being served in the next 2 or 3 years possibly... Canada not so sure to to higher taxes/landing fees
Flyboynk
 
LoneStarMike
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:27 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 29):
They have been adding routes to and from DFW for a while, I wonder why they are announcing routes so far in advance? Take a look at the spirit air route map, DFW is becoming a new hub for NK operations

The Dallas Morning News mentioned that today.

Spirit Airlines to reach 26 cities from Dallas/Fort Worth by next summer
July 16, 2012


Quote:
The new cities are making Dallas/Fort Worth Airport the second biggest airport for Spirit, behind its Fort Lauderdale base. In an interview July 2, Biffle explained why Spirit was growing so rapidly in North Texas, as he announced cities 16 through 20.

“Dallas/Fort Worth has some of the highest fares, and we believe we have a cost advantage versus other carriers in the market,” Biffle said then. “You couple that with a top five metro [area], and it’s a great opportunity for Spirit.”

As far as FLL goes, Brett Snyder of The Cranky Flier posted about NK today:

JetBlue’s Strong Performance Has Spirit on the Run
July 16, 2012


LoneStarMike
 
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:44 am

Quoting nkops (Reply 1):
PHL kind of a blow to ACY I think, but seem to be going after AA business routes on some of these

This is especially interesting considering that NK bills ACY as Atlantic City, NJ / Philadelphia,PA area.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 10):
26 according to NK's press release.

This includes destinations accessible via one-stop thru flights.

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
Oh absolutely. Again - Spirit is going after such a vastly different market than AA that the two virtually don't overlap, and thus this is likely having little to no effect on AA. If anything, Spirit is pulling away from AA - in addition to stimulating new ultra-price-conscious demand - the most price-conscious of AA's customers. Given that AA is in bankruptcy and wants to shed more capacity anyway, this is likely traffic AA was already in the process of dumping anyway.

   The two airlines should be able to coexist peacefully. Spirit isn't big enough to survive an all-out war with an established legacy like AA, and they know it.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
Lots of ex-US at NK too

The CEO, Ben Baldanza, came from US Airways. He was responsible for their focus city attempt in FLL about eight years ago. When he came to Spirit, he brought he idea for a modest Latin American operation him and it seems to have served Spirit well.

Before US, he worked at TACA during their revitalization and merger with Aviateca, LACSA, and NICA.

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 27):
Problem is, they have shifted some aircraft from FLL to LAS and DFW but this is due to the limitations at FLL right now and in the near future. You can't add more flights headed south and southwest without adding more connecting flight going north and northwest atleast with the current gate bank/slot setup while providing the highest yields

   Until more gates are added and the south runway extension is complete, FLL is effectively at capacity. Terminal 4 is a madhouse during the morning international bank and the evening domestic bank. Instead, what Spirit has been doing in the meantime is upgrading more routes out of FLL to the A320 (a capacity increase of about 30 seats), and gradually shifting the A319 fleet to the new routes out west.

Considering how worn the interiors on some of the A319s are getting, it's a welcome change.
 
point2point
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:58 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
FLL departures are down a third since their peak in Summer 2008. That is way more than many other carriers at FLL; B6 has practically doubled in the same time and DL/WN are flat. This isn't just a distant fuel spike, or construction, and set against what they're adding elsewhere, it's a clear sign that the appetite for growth is outside of FLL.

I would guess that this would make sense in that NK is the airline that has a reputation of not being able to attract repeat flyers so...... it seems that they've already gotten all the traffic that they can at FLL.


 
 
altod
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:15 am

The fact that spirit is coming to SJD is CRAZYYY I have paltinum status with AA and will not switch over but this will definitely bring lower fares on the SJD-DFW and SJD-SAN routes Where AA and Alaska have a monopoly.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:41 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 36):


I would guess that this would make sense in that NK is the airline that has a reputation of not being able to attract repeat flyers so...... it seems that they've already gotten all the traffic that they can at FLL.

I was going to say the same thing. There is a finite pool of people willing to work with NK's business model repeatedly.

Brett Snyder, aka The Cranky Flier also has an interesting analysis on NK's ability to compete with B6:

http://crankyflier.com/2012/07/16/je...ong-performance-spirit-on-the-run/

The current physical restraints at FLL notwithstanding there may be some credence to the B6 competition theories as well.
Next up: STL-CVG-MKE-MSP-STL.
 
nkops
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 35):

I noticed yesterday when they added PHL in their city list , they dropped the Philadelphia Area off the ACY listing..
:evil:
 
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YNGguins
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 33):
Cleveland (don't see it happening)

I would imagine a CAK or YNG would be going after a Spirit for that huge Northeast Ohio market.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 3):
I'll give them six months before half these routes are axed.

And if they do who cares.

Spirit says they already have a list of 300 plus routes they have identified and are ready to operate.

Under their business model each and every route must earn its keep, otherwise it gets dropped and they move on to the next one. They simply don't hang on to losers, and have no care for market share, or frequency. Its all about profit. Quite nice to hear imo.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 34):
As far as FLL goes, Brett Snyder of The Cranky Flier posted about NK today:

I don't buy the general argument. Anyhow, as mentioned above not every route will produce the margin NK demands, so either it will see frequency adjustment, or be cut completely. I believe in an earnings call it was mentioned they would estimate 10-20% of markets probably would not be sustained beyond 6-12months.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 38):
I was going to say the same thing. There is a finite pool of people willing to work with NK's business model repeatedly.

Not according to IATA or actual experience in places like Europe and Asia.

The segment of bargain basement leisure travellers grows everyday. The demographics are on the side of the folks like Spirit, not the majors that prefer to chase a truly small group of business folks as the center of their business models.

There is a large segment of society which has never flown, and a huge segment that only flies maybe once of twice a year. Spirit and ULCCs like Ryanair can inspire these folks to come out of the woodwork. There is tons of stimulation potential in this market segment.

[Edited 2012-07-17 07:31:28]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 31):
Because they can't grow anymore at FLL in recent yrs (2010/2011/2012) and in the next few years in ideal situations.

Other carriers have grown, so while I am sure the terminal constraints are slowing growth, NK has literally handed plenty of growth at FLL over to other carriers

Quoting flyboynk (Reply 31):
Add that fact more Int'l flights arriving now than a few years ago at Terminal 4 from other carriers affects NK as well...

B6 has gone from 0 international weekly arrivals to over 100 in the same time that NK has dropped by a third. That's not terminal constraints.

Quoting santi319 (Reply 32):
Comparing now to 2008, is not fair, if you were there back then you would understand what a complete and utter disaster that was

I remember it well, however other carriers have managed to grow even internationally

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
Not according to IATA or actual experience in places like Europe and Asia.

True, although for the same fare, I think even budget travelers will choose B6 over NK, and I think that is where the problem creeps up
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting nkops (Reply 1):
PHL kind of a blow to ACY I think

PHL-DFW may be more likely in anticipation of both AA's & US' PHL-DFW routes consolidating (reduction) should a merger between AA & US indeed takes place and a possible pre-emptive strike before WN can actually fly PHL-DAL nonstop.

I don't think their ACY ops are threatened yet by their returning to PHL.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
ROSWELL41
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:23 pm

According to the Spirit website, MSP-FLL, MSP-RSW, RSW-BOS, ORD-TPA and ORD-AZA will all be flown seasonally this winter.
 
santi319
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:28 pm

MSP-FLL?? DEN-FLL??? Most of FLL flying to be done with 320s?? But I thought NK was closing down their FLL operation????? Lol..
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting santi319 (Reply 46):
MSP-FLL?? DEN-FLL??? Most of FLL flying to be done with 320s?? But I thought NK was closing down their FLL operation????? Lol..

I thought they couldn't add anything because of the construction . I don't think anyone said NK is shutting FLL down, but rather that the FLL international hub is not quite panning out, certainly not as well as all this new point to point flying.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ROSWELL41
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RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:41 pm

How will SY respond to all of this expansion into MSP? NK will be flying MSP-ORD, DFW, LAS, FLL and RSW.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15455
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:43 pm

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 48):

How will SY respond to all of this expansion into MSP?

Shut down for six months again? 
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
OB1504
Posts: 3029
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Spirit Announces 6 New DFW Routes

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 36):
I would guess that this would make sense in that NK is the airline that has a reputation of not being able to attract repeat flyers so...... it seems that they've already gotten all the traffic that they can at FLL.

People love to state this as fact, but the truth remains that people will continue to come back as long as Spirit's a penny cheaper. The average leisure traveler is a slave to price and nothing else.

Quoting nkops (Reply 39):
I noticed yesterday when they added PHL in their city list , they dropped the Philadelphia Area off the ACY listing..

Interesting. Do the casinos in ACY provide any assistance to NK in filling their flights there?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
Not according to IATA or actual experience in places like Europe and Asia.

The segment of bargain basement leisure travellers grows everyday. The demographics are on the side of the folks like Spirit, not the majors that prefer to chase a truly small group of business folks as the center of their business models.

There is a large segment of society which has never flown, and a huge segment that only flies maybe once of twice a year. Spirit and ULCCs like Ryanair can inspire these folks to come out of the woodwork. There is tons of stimulation potential in this market segment.

   If the ULCC model truly depleted the pool of potential passengers, Ryanair wouldn't be where it is today.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
B6 has gone from 0 international weekly arrivals to over 100 in the same time that NK has dropped by a third. That's not terminal constraints.

NK is facing an equipment shortage. Flight 180 (FLL-LGA) was operated by an Xtra Airways 737-400 today, and these substitutions have become fairly common as of late. The airline is putting its limited assets where they can make the most revenue. There's a difference between the FLL hub being a failure versus it not being as lucrative as opportunities elsewhere.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
True, although for the same fare, I think even budget travelers will choose B6 over NK, and I think that is where the problem creeps up

Anyone would. Spirit's only selling point is the price advantage, but how often is their base fare greater than or equal to JetBlue's? (no one ever seems to factor in the baggage fees, but that's not the airline's fault)

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 46):
I thought they couldn't add anything because of the construction . I don't think anyone said NK is shutting FLL down, but rather that the FLL international hub is not quite panning out, certainly not as well as all this new point to point flying.

They can't do a major expansion because of the construction, but there's obviously space for a handful of flights between banks. The FLL international hub will remain as-is until we see what NK has planned for BOG.

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