SA744
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SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:08 am

Hello All

With recent topics on the above heading, i was chatting to a friend last night who happened to mention that some SAA tech guys are/have being sent on training for the new aircraft that SAA are intending to get. My guess ia that Boeing might have this RFP in the hat, the word out is that they will go for 777ER and 777LR and maybe even some 789's. Any further info.
Thanks

[Edited 2012-07-16 23:10:09]
 
weebie
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:16 am

They'll stick with Airbus.
 
imag
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:32 am

Flew out of LHR the other day and overheard the gate agents talking about SAA getting 777's. Also heard that from another source in SAA, but until it's official, it's probably all rumours.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:59 am

I thought that SAA were short of cash at the moment and weren't placing any orders ?
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:03 am

Gate agents and cabin crew are the LAST people to know.

Why would SA want to ditch their A346s for something that cannot lift as much as far ex-JNB? Can the 77L even do IAD or JFK non-stop from JNB with a full payload? Not many places where the A346 makes sense over the triple seven but JNB is certainly one of those places.

Why would SA want to ditch their (brand new) A332s that are absolutely ideal for CPT runs?

A320NEOs - yes. A321NEOs - definitely.

Ok 789s as A343 replacements I get but 772ERs and 77Ls? Dream on.

[Edited 2012-07-17 02:23:54]
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
ka
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting weebie (Reply 1):
They'll stick with Airbus.

...especially when hearing on the net that SA is in talks to lease GF's stored A343s.

Ka.
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jfk777
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:01 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
Why would SA want to ditch their A346s for something that cannot lift as much as far ex-JNB? Can the 77L even do IAD or JFK non-stop from JNB with a full payload

Its already being done, Delta flies a nonstop JNB to ATL daily nonstop on a 777-200LR. Atlanta is about 8500 miles from JNB, JFK is about 7950 from JNB.
 
A388
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:12 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):

Its already being done, Delta flies a nonstop JNB to ATL daily nonstop on a 777-200LR. Atlanta is about 8500 miles from JNB, JFK is about 7950 from JNB.

To my knowledge this flight is weight restricted so the 777 may not be the ideal aircraft for the route.

A388

[Edited 2012-07-17 05:13:37]
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):

Key part of that sentence is "with a full payload"
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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RayChuang
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:45 pm

I think South African Airways will snap up as many A340 models as possible for one reason: they fly a LOT of long over-water flights that other airlines don't do. From JNB and CPT, flying to South America or Australia involves flying over long stretches of ocean with very few diversion airports nearby.
 
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Polot
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:11 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
To my knowledge this flight is weight restricted so the 777 may not be the ideal aircraft for the route.
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Key part of that sentence is "with a full payload"

You guys are assuming that SAA's nonstop A346 flights to (or more specifically from) the US are operating at "full payload." Up until last year SAA was operating from JFK with a stop in DKR before deciding to go nonstop. It is likely that that flight is taking a payload hit. Their IAD flight still stops at DKR on the return. Yes, 4 engines perform better at JNB than 2 engine aircraft...but the A346 also has a lot less range than the 772LR. Even the westbound flights to the US are pushing up against the A340's maximum range.

Note though that I would be surprised to see them order 777s.

[Edited 2012-07-17 06:15:05]
 
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moo
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:20 pm

Before I rejoined A.net, there were a lot of threads on the topic of SAA and the A380, and one of the main arguments against SAA getting it was that they would have to park it up during a lay over as there isnt enough uplift for them to do any more than a single trip per day.

When I was in JoBerg last January, I was staying in a hotel overlooking the north side of the airport - and every single day an Air France and Lufthansa A380 would arrive, discharge their passengers and park up for about 12 hours. Thats two A380s from different airlines sat doing nothing.

If Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

(Note - this post purposefully ignores the other arguments against the A380 for SAA, I just wanted to respond to one previous aspect).
 
A388
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting poLOT (Reply 10):
but the A346 also has a lot less range than the 772LR

... but with more capacity  

A388
 
SASMD82
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting poLOT (Reply 10):
but the A346 also has a lot less range than the 772LR

What about picking up some used A345s? The most ideal aircraft to start new services to the US, Canada and East Asia without adding a brand new aircraft type.
 
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Polot
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 13):
What about picking up some used A345s? The most ideal aircraft to start new services to the US, Canada and East Asia without adding a brand new aircraft type.

There are plenty of used A345s available. Airbus even has some new, never been used, frames. The complete lack of any apparent interest in acquiring them at prices airlines deem fit demonstrates just how subpar they are viewed in today's competitive environment.
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 11):
Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

Yes, but AF and LH also fly the A380 on routes where they don't park them all day, unlike SAA where almost every longhaul destination have a very long groundtime.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
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RWA380
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 11):

When I was in JoBerg last January, I was staying in a hotel overlooking the north side of the airport - and every single day an Air France and Lufthansa A380 would arrive, discharge their passengers and park up for about 12 hours. Thats two A380s from different airlines sat doing nothing.

If Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

(Note - this post purposefully ignores the other arguments against the A380 for SAA, I just wanted to respond to one previous aspect).

Parking one A380 out of your fleet for 12 hours is workable for LH or AF, but an airline with the routes SAA has would mean parking a substantial percentage of your A380 fleet, not unlike SAA does with their fleet currently.
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jfk777
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):


Key part of that sentence is "with a full payload"
Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
To my knowledge this flight is weight restricted so the 777 may not be the ideal aircraft for the route

What airplane would be more "ideal" for this flight ? What is a "full payload " on a flight with a high airport for a 16 hour flight ? Whatever DL carries is a "full payload".
 
KELPkid
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
Why would SA want to ditch their (brand new) A332s that are absolutely ideal for CPT runs?

If the A332 is so ideal for CPT, why is SA dropping a flagship route like LHR-CPT?    The 788 would make more sense here, it is a long thin route specialist  
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speedbird128
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:07 am

Quoting moo (Reply 11):
If Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

Don't give SA too much credit... LOL. Difference being that LH and AF are run properly (or rather, not run into the ground). SAA couldn't turn a profit with a 744 either, yet many airlines do.

SAA are whining again for a R6 BILLION handout from the taxpayer once more. To sustain their whims with fleet choices.
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ZK-NBT
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 19):
If Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

Don't give SA too much credit... LOL. Difference being that LH and AF are run properly (or rather, not run into the ground). SAA couldn't turn a profit with a 744 either, yet many airlines do.

Where else other than LHR would SAA would have the demand to run an A380? FRA maybe do they still run CPT-FRA? JNB-GRU looks to be 11 weekly maybe there? JFK?
 
jfk777
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:12 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 16):
Parking one A380 out of your fleet for 12 hours is workable for LH or AF, but an airline with the routes SAA has would mean parking a substantial percentage of your A380 fleet, not unlike SAA does with their fleet currently.

IF SAA were to have 4 A380 for disscusions sake some would be parked at LHR and JNB all day between flights.
 
imag
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:58 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 20):
Where else other than LHR would SAA would have the demand to run an A380? FRA maybe do they still run CPT-FRA? JNB-GRU looks to be 11 weekly maybe there? JFK?

Not sure Heathrow is an option, unless they go to one flight. The usual JNB flights are the A343 and A332 and more than once I've seen two A332's (and the Cape Town one) used. My flight last month was downgraded to the A332. That said, I've never been on a SA flight between LHR and JNB that hasn't been less than 95% full. But then I guess they'll have the uplift of the Cape Town flight beind dropped.

Doesn't the bilateral say that SA have to have two flights? I'm not sure, just read something on here.

[Edited 2012-07-19 05:00:51]
 
speedbird128
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RE: SAA And New Aircraft

Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:43 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 20):
Where else other than LHR would SAA would have the demand to run an A380?

They personally don't think they have the demand on any route to warrant an A380. And if they did have the demand, I don't think they would manage to make it profitable anyway...
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