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enilria
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:45 pm

I guess the subsidy stopped. :p Odd that they are leaving a market with no WN DEN service. My guess is that it was coming anyway. It'll be interesting to see if WN is still interested with F9 gone.

http://www.bizjournals.com/wichita/m...nes-leaving-wichita.html?ana=yfcpc
 
Bobloblaw
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
I guess the subsidy stopped. :p

Seems to be F9's MO
 
kcrwflyer
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:55 pm

I'd imagine they'll need the F9 money, the FL money, and then some to pay for WN's service there. That's purely based on WN having higher costs than F9 and FL and them probably having more daily flights.
 
PlaneAdmirer
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
I guess the subsidy stopped. :p

How unreasonable of F9 not to be willing to lose money on an unprofitable route....   

The subsidy was offered to secure flights and the market didn't materialize so why should F9 or any other carrier continue?
 
kcrwflyer
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 3):
The subsidy was offered to secure flights and the market didn't materialize so why should F9 or any other carrier continue?

Is that how it's supposed to work? I thought the name of the game was to pay for the otherwise unprofitable service forever because of all of the money the community saved. I didn't think the routes were ever supposed to "work"
 
Bobloblaw
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 3):
How unreasonable of F9 not to be willing to lose money on an unprofitable route....

Well F9 has become an airline that chases revenue guarantees, fails to develop the market, then leaves. This isnt much of a long term business plan.
 
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enilria
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:56 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 2):
I'd imagine they'll need the F9 money, the FL money, and then some to pay for WN's service there.

I bet you are right.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 4):
Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 3):
The subsidy was offered to secure flights and the market didn't materialize so why should F9 or any other carrier continue?

Is that how it's supposed to work? I thought the name of the game was to pay for the otherwise unprofitable service forever because of all of the money the community saved. I didn't think the routes were ever supposed to "work"

You are right again. This was a permanent subsidy. FL never made money there according to their agreement either.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 5):
Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 3):
How unreasonable of F9 not to be willing to lose money on an unprofitable route....

Well F9 has become an airline that chases revenue guarantees, fails to develop the market, then leaves. This isnt much of a long term business plan.

I completely agree, although this lasted quite a while...only because the subsidy went on much longer than normal markets. This subsidy was taxpayer money which also bothers me. Airport money or private money doesn't bother me as much.
 
ouboy79
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Odd that they are leaving a market with no WN DEN service. My guess is that it was coming anyway. It'll be interesting to see if WN is still interested with F9 gone.

IIRC, WN already signed an agreement with ICT for $6-8 million to retain service to the city after the transition from the FL brand.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 2):
I'd imagine they'll need the F9 money, the FL money, and then some to pay for WN's service there. That's purely based on WN having higher costs than F9 and FL and them probably having more daily flights.

Should already be allocated after their agreement was signed. Not sure if the F9 agreement was structured like the FL/WN agreement(s) though.
 
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enilria
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 7):
IIRC, WN already signed an agreement with ICT for $6-8 million to retain service to the city after the transition from the FL brand.

But for what routes?

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 7):
Should already be allocated after their agreement was signed. Not sure if the F9 agreement was structured like the FL/WN agreement(s) though.

It may also be that ICT leaked to F9 that WN was going to start DEN and they just bailed out now. ICT would know because of the contract agreement.
 
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clickhappy
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:34 pm

I fly this route 3-4 times a year and the loads are quite healthy, and the tickets are far from cheap. Even with the upgauge to the E190 this has been the case. Booking 3 weeks out shows most seats full. Bummer.

Hopefully Alaska will offer a once a day SEA-ICT-SEA rotation for the aerospace traffic.
 
ouboy79
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
It may also be that ICT leaked to F9 that WN was going to start DEN and they just bailed out now. ICT would know because of the contract agreement.

Very well could be. The routes in the agreement haven't been disclosed yet, but I would imagine ATL remains one. I would think DEN, DAL, STL, and PHX could all be mixed in.
 
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enilria
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 10):
but I would imagine ATL remains one.

I've been told by a reliable source that ATL will not remain, but things change...
 
UNITED91
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:45 pm

I'm surprised, I've taken that flight many times on F9, sad to see it go. Always seemed full, but then again that doesn't make it profitable.
 
point2point
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:57 pm

I believe that UA is still on the route though. I guess that DEN-ICT just doesn' t really have enuf to support two carriers.

 
 
alphascan
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
It may also be that ICT leaked to F9 that WN was going to start DEN and they just bailed out now. ICT would know because of the contract agreement.

Yeah, I'm sure the folks at ICT go around sabotaging themselves all the time.  
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
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enilria
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:19 pm

Quoting alphascan (Reply 14):
Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
It may also be that ICT leaked to F9 that WN was going to start DEN and they just bailed out now. ICT would know because of the contract agreement.

Yeah, I'm sure the folks at ICT go around sabotaging themselves all the time.

Well, they have a long business relationship with F9. I think if you are going to start giving a subsidy to their competitor, you have a moral reason to notify them of it. Additionally, government contracts are subject to Freedom of Information Act requests, so there really can't be any secrets anyway, so they might as well tell them.
 
mli717fan
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:32 pm

Interestingly, the Republic LFs appear to be much healthier than the FL numbers at ICT....

2010 Average: Republic: 86.67% AirTran: 57.14%
2011 Average: Republic: 83.32%; AirTran: 63.69%
2012 Average: Republic: 70.24% AirTran: 44.14%

*2012 Average calculated Jan, Feb, Mar

Source: Transtats Data Elements
 
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mariner
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:30 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 5):
Well F9 has become an airline that chases revenue guarantees, fails to develop the market, then leaves.

Hmmmm?

The subsidy was available for next year - Frontier did not seek it.

http://www.kansas.com/2012/07/16/241...ntier-airlines-to-end-flights.html

"Frontier did not seek another year of revenue guarantee money from the state’s Affordable Airfares program, she said."


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mcg
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:30 pm

Did ICT subsidze F9 while UA provided non-subsidized service/
 
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mariner
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 18):
Did ICT subsidze F9 while UA provided non-subsidized service/

Yep. Just like ICT subsidized Airtran while Delta provided non-subsidized service.

There was a BIG hoo-haa about it back in 2005:

http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg35001.html

"The city of Wichita will defend its subsidy to AirTran Airways today in a
response to federal regulators' claims that the publicly funded payments to
the airline discriminate against one of its competitors.

the city will defend its current stance, that the subsidy to
AirTran does not discriminate against Delta Air Lines, which made the
complaint that touched off the Federal Aviation Administration's examination
of Wichita's subsidy program."


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ginger727
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:58 am

I believe that FL just got awarded another year of subsidy just a few days ago.

[Edited 2012-07-17 20:02:00]
 
kingcavalier
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:12 am

I believe marginal E190 routes will be trimmed in preparation for a downsizing and eventual elimination IMO of the E190. If F9 was simply chasing subsidies they would have sought it again but they did not as Mariner's link states.
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n7371f
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 9):
Hopefully Alaska will offer a once a day SEA-ICT-SEA rotation for the aerospace traffic.

TWA did for awhile some many years ago with one daily MD-80 but that was when Boeing owned Wichita. In about a year, there won't be hardly any Boeing left in ICT. Of course the Spirit contract means there is traffic but...doubt it's anything like it used to be.
 
ouboy79
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting n7371f (Reply 22):
TWA did for awhile some many years ago with one daily MD-80 but that was when Boeing owned Wichita. In about a year, there won't be hardly any Boeing left in ICT. Of course the Spirit contract means there is traffic but...doubt it's anything like it used to be.

Couldn't see a flight to SEA from ICT for Boeing traffic for the reason stated. Majority of the Boeing jobs that are/were in ICT are getting moved to OKC (as well as some LAX area jobs). However, I'm not sure how much of the military side would require travel to SEA versus Chicago.
 
smoot4208
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F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:22 am

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 21):
I believe marginal E190 routes will be trimmed in preparation for a downsizing and eventual elimination IMO of the E190

Where would Republic put those aircraft then? Sell them? Scope clause with the legacies allowed them to transfer over the E170s, but no scope clause would allow E190s, so if they draw them down from F9, they would have to sell them. I thought the E190 was doing well for F9.
 
ATWZW170
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:58 am

I'm sure RAH could make some sort of deal to trade in the 190 for 170/175's in hopes of flying them for AA.

This is what, the third time F9 has closed ICT? No one ever wants to see a city closed but lets hope there isn't a fourth time. The community simply will not support a constant in/out of an airline.

I do suspect, as many have said, that E190 cities will be slowly closed if the service can not be supported with an Airbus. It has been stated by a few at Frontier that the E190 will be phased out slowly. I think the phrase that DS used was "We will have fewer E190's this time next year". I personally don't like to hear that because of all the great markets that are currently getting the E190 - BIL, BMI, DSM, OMA, PVU, SBA - markets that are somewhat unique but could go away if the E190 is no longer in the mix.

Sure hope there is some sort of clear direction and road map ahead for Frontier!
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enilria
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:11 pm

Quoting MLI717fan (Reply 16):
Interestingly, the Republic LFs appear to be much healthier than the FL numbers at ICT....
Quoting mariner (Reply 17):
"Frontier did not seek another year of revenue guarantee money from the state’s Affordable Airfares program, she said."

There was a quote in one of the articles from Valerie Wise, who does Air Service Development for ICT, where she said, "they will move the aircraft to somewhere where there will be less competition." I thought that was an interesting quote because 1) there is now less competition in DEN-ICT than nearly all of F9's DEN routes. 2) I also thought it was interesting that the quote implied that the DEN-ICT route *will* have more competition, i.e. WN. I still say that is really what happened.

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 21):

I believe marginal E190 routes will be trimmed in preparation for a downsizing and eventual elimination IMO of the E190.
Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 24):
Where would Republic put those aircraft then?

Interesting. I think with the switch to prorate that makes some sense because Republic said they would sell "Frontier". They have effectively transferred the E190s back to Republic because the prorate puts the financial burden on RJET even if F9 were sold. So, strictly speaking, if they continue the E190 operation and sell Frontier, they haven't really sold all of Frontier as long as the E190s are on prorate operating for F9.

I have no idea who would buy those planes. I also think the model of the regionals buying RJs on speculation of a 20 year useful life is over. AMR would have to buy the planes.
 
azstar
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 25):
Sure hope there is some sort of clear direction and road map ahead for Frontier!

There hasn't been in the past so I'm skeptical that there will be any in the future.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:10 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
There was a quote in one of the articles from Valerie Wise, who does Air Service Development for ICT, where she said, "they will move the aircraft to somewhere where there will be less competition." I thought that was an interesting quote because 1) there is now less competition in DEN-ICT than nearly all of F9's DEN routes. 2) I also thought it was interesting that the quote implied that the DEN-ICT route *will* have more competition, i.e. WN. I still say that is really what happened.

I would have thought Southwest starting ICT-DEN is a lay down misere - a slam dunk - with or without Frontier on the route.

However, as several articles note, the route has been an under-performer for Frontier, so I can't think of any good reason to fly it. The subsidy (half a mil) is peanuts compared with Airtran's subsidy for ICT-ATL:

http://www.kansas.com/2012/07/11/240...commissioners-approve-airtran.html

"The Affordable Airfares agreement requires Wichita to pay half of the AirTran contract after state funding, said Chris Chronis, Sedgwick County’s chief financial officer.

The state is chipping in up to $4.75 million. The city and county will contribute up to $1.75 million, or up to $875,000 each."


It's been at that level for years, despite the pretests of Delta:

http://www.wichita.edu/thisis/wsunews/news/?nid=726

"AirTran also benefits from roughly $1 million from the city and $5 million from the state."

Nice money - if you can get it.

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
So, strictly speaking, if they continue the E190 operation and sell Frontier, they haven't really sold all of Frontier as long as the E190s are on prorate operating for F9.

Once again, I heard "separate" - unlike you the rest of the world, it seems, I didn't hear "sell."

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/85890...ceo-on-frontier-airlines-sale.html

Based on those comments by BB, they have not decided on (i) sale, (ii) private equity investment - or (iii) some participation by RJET shareholders.

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GSPSPOT
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:20 am

What's the problem with the E190 from F9's perspective??
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mikefrommke
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:41 am

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 29):
What's the problem with the E190 from F9's perspective??

Too high CASM in this fuel environment for an LCC. But it really isn't F9's problem anymore, as they are prorate with RP.
 
bahadir
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:44 am

Interestingly enough (or should I say ironically enough) Republic is starting to serve DEN-ICT on Q400s for its United regional operations..
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mikefrommke
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:15 pm

Quoting bahadir (Reply 31):
Interestingly enough (or should I say ironically enough) Republic is starting to serve DEN-ICT on Q400s for its United regional operations..

Actually, this may be the sole reason for this change. I believe Republic can't fly any routes for F9 that it flies for its other partners due to contracts, and F9 wasn't prepared to upgauge to the Airbus.
 
rampart
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting bahadir (Reply 31):
Interestingly enough (or should I say ironically enough) Republic is starting to serve DEN-ICT on Q400s for its United regional operations..

Q400 is probably the more appropriate equipment for this route, and other similar ones. How long a flight is that? Longer, but probably more cost effective.
 
mli717fan
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 32):
Actually, this may be the sole reason for this change. I believe Republic can't fly any routes for F9 that it flies for its other partners due to contracts, and F9 wasn't prepared to upgauge to the Airbus.

Could United try to use this as an opportunity to remove F9 competition? I know Republic has to agree with UA to fly those routes, this could be a way for UA to remove competition on some of the smaller routes.
 
gustywinds
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:29 pm

I don't believe there is an issue with Republic operating the Q for UA on the same route that they are operating the E190 for F9. I see Republic will continue to operate the E190 for F9 on DEN MCI and the Q for UA next month for example. And if you really think about it RAH has done this for years by operating Shuttle E170s for UA in direct competition with F9. And Frontier is a subsidiary of RAH operating direct competition against UA.
 
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enilria
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 30):
Too high CASM in this fuel environment for an LCC. But it really isn't F9's problem anymore, as they are prorate with RP.
Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
Based on those comments by BB, they have not decided on (i) sale, (ii) private equity investment - or (iii) some participation by RJET shareholders.

It's irrelevant which. My point is that if RJET is still prorate to F9 for the E190s they basically have retained part of F9 from a risk perspective, so I don't doubt the E190s are going away eliminating that risk. Otherwise it is all just a shell game. If you say you are going separate X from Y and then you rebrand 20% (by their own admission the least cost-effective part) of X as Y, then you aren't really separating anything.

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
However, as several articles note, the route has been an under-performer for Frontier, so I can't think of any good reason to fly it. The subsidy (half a mil) is peanuts compared with Airtran's subsidy for ICT-ATL:

The load factors were extremely high and they were getting a subsidy on top of it, so I'm not sure exactly what that means. I would guarantee you that there are markets where they compete with UA *and* WN that are significantly worse. I propose they left either because WN is entering or...

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 32):
Actually, this may be the sole reason for this change. I believe Republic can't fly any routes for F9 that it flies for its other partners due to contracts, and F9 wasn't prepared to upgauge to the Airbus.

If that is true then it is a wrecking ball for the E190 operation. UA could move the Q400s around just to force F9 to close markets. Maybe they already are. Do we know that this is how the contract is written??
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:42 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 29):
What's the problem with the E190 from F9's perspective??
Quoting enilria (Reply 36):
It's irrelevant which. My point is that if RJET is still prorate to F9 for the E190s they basically have retained part of F9 from a risk perspective, so I don't doubt the E190s are going away eliminating that risk.

But from the git-go Republic was likely to retain a part of Frontier. The first clue was the FAPA agreement, when Republic agreed to take a minority holding by 2014.

Quoting enilria (Reply 36):
I propose they left either because WN is entering or...

As I said at the start of my post, I have no doubt Southwest will start the route and that would clearly affect the thinking.

But there are several Frontier routes that Southwest has started and Frontier has stayed.

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 32):
Actually, this may be the sole reason for this change. I believe Republic can't fly any routes for F9 that it flies for its other partners due to contracts, and F9 wasn't prepared to upgauge to the Airbus.

I always understood that grandfathered routes - pre-Republic routes - were exempt from that, but I could be wrong.

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enilria
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
But from the git-go Republic was likely to retain a part of Frontier. The first clue was the FAPA agreement, when Republic agreed to take a minority holding by 2014.

Well, from the git-go the goal was to get F9 earnings off the RJET balance sheet. As I understand the accounting rules, they would still have to report their interest in F9's earnings if they retained a stake as large at 49% which contradicts the overall goal. I'm beginning to wonder if the whole concept of splintering F9 from RJET was little more than a short-term ploy to mollify shareholders. I see little progress.

Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
But there are several Frontier routes that Southwest has started and Frontier has stayed.

Well, I can only guess that they felt that this market was too small to take 3 airlines.

Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 32):
Actually, this may be the sole reason for this change. I believe Republic can't fly any routes for F9 that it flies for its other partners due to contracts, and F9 wasn't prepared to upgauge to the Airbus.

I always understood that grandfathered routes - pre-Republic routes - were exempt from that, but I could be wrong.

That's a big deal. I hope Mariner is right, otherwise they have given UA a gun to shoot them with.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
I see little progress.

I'm not sure why you should see any progress. The airline isn't ready for separation yet.

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
Well, I can only guess that they felt that this market was too small to take 3 airlines.

And I think they'd be right.

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
I hope Mariner is right, otherwise they have given UA a gun to shoot them with.

If United started to play that game - and if I were Frontier/Republic - I'd go straight to the DOJ, bypassing the DOT along the way.

mariner
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stapleton
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
Quoting mariner (Reply 37):
Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 32):
Actually, this may be the sole reason for this change. I believe Republic can't fly any routes for F9 that it flies for its other partners due to contracts, and F9 wasn't prepared to upgauge to the Airbus.

I always understood that grandfathered routes - pre-Republic routes - were exempt from that, but I could be wrong.

That's a big deal. I hope Mariner is right, otherwise they have given UA a gun to shoot them with.

This segway isn't worth any more discussion since there are several other routes that have the UA Q400 and the F9 EMB190s on the route and they haven't been discontinued. Time to move on.
 
mikefrommke
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:32 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 38):
I'm beginning to wonder if the whole concept of splintering F9 from RJET was little more than a short-term ploy to mollify shareholders. I see little progress.

The question becomes, would the shareholders want to keep F9 if it starts turning a profit?
 
boeing773er
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:32 pm

Wow, this isn't good news for F9 or ICT, it is a shame they are doing this more and more often.

This makes me nervous about the ABE-MCO and MDT-DEN/MCO service they started a few months ago.
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mariner
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 42):
This makes me nervous about the ABE-MCO and MDT-DEN/MCO service they started a few months ago.

I don't know why it should make you nervous. DEN-MDT was been excellent and the season has been extended by two months.

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freakyrat
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:52 pm

There was a quote in one of the articles from Valerie Wise, who does Air Service Development for ICT, where she said, "they will move the aircraft to somewhere where there will be less competition."


They are moving the aircraft to SBN-DEN. The route will be announced Monday.
 
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:26 pm

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 9):
Hopefully Alaska will offer a once a day SEA-ICT-SEA rotation for the aerospace traffic.

Don't see that happening.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 44):

There was a quote in one of the articles from Valerie Wise, who does Air Service Development for ICT, where she said, "they will move the aircraft to somewhere where there will be less competition."


They are moving the aircraft to SBN-DEN. The route will be announced Monday.

twice daily?
 
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 44):
they will move the aircraft to somewhere where there will be less competition
Quoting freakyrat (Reply 44):
They are moving the aircraft to SBN-DEN.

SBN having less westbound competition than ICT is an understatement.

The only true western hub currently served from SBN (ORD doesn't count) is MSP. In addition to MSP, close rival FWA has Eagle to DFW twice a day (3x in winter), with many SBN-area travelers driving there to fly Eagle. By contrast, ICT has nonstop DEN, DFW, IAH, and MSP service. (Both airports also have G4 to AZA and LAS, but that's a different story.)
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RE: F9 Closing Wichita Mid-Continent Airport Flights

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:55 pm

For no other reason than geography It seems to me ICT is best served to one of the Dallas and Chicago airports. Soley for the purposes of filing a larger aircraft on an existing route F9 uses the A320 between DEN-STL I'm curious if DEN-ICT-STL would have worked.
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