cityairline
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Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:20 am

Hey!

It seems like Lufthansa is not allowing any bookings on MUC-SIN-CGK from late October and onwards, which would mean the end of Lufthansa service to Indonesia. Does anyone know more about this?

/Alex
I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
 
EBGflyer
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:28 am

It was posted on airlineroutes.net yesterday


As per 17JUL12 GDS inventory display, Lufthansa from 28OCT12 is cancelling Munich – Singapore – Jakarta service. Reservation for the 5 weekly service is closed, and there are no words whether overall service to Jakarta will be kept.

Schedule:

LH790 MUC2130 – 1640+1SIN1750+1 – 1845+1CGK 343 x13
LH791 CGK1950 – 2235SIN2349 – 0555+1MUC 343 x24
Future flights: CPH-BKK-MNL; MNL-GUM-TKK-PNI-KSA-KWA-MAJ-HNL-LAX
 
gardermoen
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:38 am

If this is the case, they will be sorely missed.
Perhaps the service is to switch back to FRA-SIN-JKT? They have been in JKT for a very long time.

I hope this is not another victim of the EY/QR/EK effect.
 
Cassi
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:54 am

There is no doubt that most of the long (12+ hours) A343/A346 routes are in trouble at the current high fuel prices and we are going to see more cuts. For some competitor airlines like EK it is a much more efficient 6 + 8 hour flight with 77W's.
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:33 am

Quoting gardermoen (Reply 2):
Perhaps the service is to switch back to FRA-SIN-JKT?

I doubt that as long they have the A380 on the FRA-SIN route.
 
smbukas
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:50 am

I think in current environment it makes much more sense just to put code on Singapore Airlines flight. Anyway, passenger experience is the same, AFAIK passengers need to leave the aircraft in SIN.

I was on FRA-BKK-KUL flight last year and it was quite bad experience. Need to leave an aircraft in BKK, 2 hours for completing boarding again and continue journey in almost empty B744. Even it could be better experience just to transfer to Thai in BKK.

I think, tag-on's make sense only if stop is other alliance partner territory.
 
xiaotung
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:56 am

I usually get pretty good price on SIN-CGK on LH. Much cheaper and earn the same amount of miles. Is TK still on this route?
 
TK748
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:13 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 6):
Is TK still on this route?

Yes TK serves daily IST-SIN-CGK
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:22 am

There is talk in Jakarta that LH will delink KUL from BKK and start a nonstop FRA KUL service, which would then be extended to CGK. LH has been suffering the effects from EK/QR/EY as well as TK in CGK and it is losing out in KUL not only to the Middle Eastern carriers, but also to KL, which goes nonstop daily into KUL and will reinforce frequencies there to 10 weekly from the winter.

The FRA SIN service will definitely not be extended into CGK, because CGK cannot handle the A388. So if KUL CGK does not happen, I fear that the only alternative is for the curtain to fall over LH in CGK.
 
ManekS
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:28 am

Very unexpected. I always thought the flight was lucrative, at least the MUC-SIN portion. Does anyone have insights into the route's performance?
 
smbukas
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting ManekS (Reply 9):
Very unexpected. I always thought the flight was lucrative, at least the MUC-SIN portion. Does anyone have insights into the route's performance?

I was on FRA-SIN few times both on SQ and LH.

LH A380 all times was about 60-70% in J and Y classes, so I think they have some issues to fill A380. Maybe they reduce overall capacity to SIN and drop of MUC will help them to fill A380 FRA-SIN.

Actually, I think it is quite hard in-alliance competition. SQ usually are more or less the same price as LH, but better service in many aspects, especially business class on their A380's.
 
FlyingHollander
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:28 pm

Will this in any way affect KLM?
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
SQ325
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:30 pm

There are strong rumors that are saying that BKK will lose its B744 and get an A346 instead.
Maybe there will be a FRA-KUL-CGK in the future! Who knows but currently I have the feeling nobody within LH knows what to expect for the near future.
 
mikey72
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:33 pm

Hats off to LH for lasting this long.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
iainbhx
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting SQ325 (Reply 12):
There are strong rumors that are saying that BKK will lose its B744 and get an A346 instead.

Given that BKK doesn't seem to get a reconfigured 744 very often, I wouldn't be shocked at this.

Sorry to lose MUC-SIN, but the fact that it was fairly easy to upgrade C to F on it, obviously meant that the premium demand wasn't there.
iainbhx
 
nethkt
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting iainbhx (Reply 14):
Sorry to lose MUC-SIN, but the fact that it was fairly easy to upgrade C to F on it, obviously meant that the premium demand wasn't there.

Correct, and also it's super easy to get award on any classes on MUC-SIN.
Try searching from United.com award travel! There are always seats open for award tickets.

The Munich hub isn't easy to operate the long haul flights to Asia. Even MUC-HKG, NRT etc where aircraft swap to smaller ones and frequency reduced are often seen. That's one indicator LH is trying their best to adjust to the correct operations. If all the premium classes are really lucrative, I don't think they'd swap aircraft and reduce flight that often.

For sure, EK, EY, QR, TK are being main reasons for these cancellations.
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):
The FRA SIN service will definitely not be extended into CGK, because CGK cannot handle the A388.

What is CGK waiting for? Seems to me Indonesia is a perfect candidate for the whale jet.

What is the problem, runways and taxiways cannot handle the weight, or is it something else?Having a look at CGK on google earth, seems to me they have at least a few stands with double air bridges. Might it be that they cant accomodate Code F aircraft ?

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SKY1
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting FlyingHollander (Reply 11):
Will this in any way affect KLM?

In not any way, maybe slightly positive as they are going to be the solely european to fly CGK.

KLM has got the fifth rights between KUL and CGK and SIN-DPS as well. They do good numbers in South-East Asia.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
WROORD
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting smbukas (Reply 10):
LH A380 all times was about 60-70% in J and Y classes, so I think they have some issues to fill A380. Maybe they reduce overall capacity to SIN and drop of MUC will help them to fill A380 FRA-SIN.

This iseactly what hey are doing. SIN-CGK can be done on other airline even if SQ des not want to code-share with LH.
 
mandala499
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:07 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16):
What is the problem, runways and taxiways cannot handle the weight, or is it something else?Having a look at CGK on google earth, seems to me they have at least a few stands with double air bridges. Might it be that they cant accomodate Code F aircraft ?

It's not the apron... Stand D11 (gate D1) can probably handle the 380... D21 (gate D2) probably aswell, but not concurrently.
On the rest of the gates at T2, don't the appearance deceive you, it is VERY tight in some spots that not even a 744 can get in (D71 is one, and then D/E/F41 and D/E/F42).
And then... the boarding gate space is a nightmare. Even an EK 773 boarding is enough to get some people quite irate!

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
SIA747Megatop
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:44 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 19):
the boarding gate space is a nightmare. Even an EK 773 boarding is enough to get some people quite irate!

Even boarding a fully loaded A320 leaves people standing in those gate hold rooms. It's ridiculous! If certain stands can fit the A380, they'll need to control boarding from the entrance to the gate, it's really a mess.
"I do not yet know of a man who became a leader as a result of having undergone a leadership course." - Lee Kuan Yew
 
CX288
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:02 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):
There is talk in Jakarta that LH will delink KUL from BKK and start a nonstop FRA KUL service, which would then be extended to CGK.
Quoting SQ325 (Reply 12):
There are strong rumors that are saying that BKK will lose its B744 and get an A346 instead.
Maybe there will be a FRA-KUL-CGK in the future!

I heard that the FRA-BKK flight will be moved to MUC and then be operated with Airbus.

So they could use the FRA slot for a KUL-CGK routation. Crew overnight costs in KL should also be substantially cheaper than in S'pore.

Question then remains what will happen to SGN which is currently served via BKK from FRA: Either non-stop to better compete with VN and AF, or via BKK out of Munich several days per week.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:32 am

Interesting, sounds like this may simply be the end of LH's MUC-SIN route but not necessarily a LH withdrawal from CGK/Indonesia.

Quoting gardermoen (Reply 2):
I hope this is not another victim of the EY/QR/EK effect.
Quoting nethkt (Reply 15):
For sure, EK, EY, QR, TK are being main reasons for these cancellations.

I highly doubt TK is a major culprit here. Their CGK service also has a SIN stopover, making it equally unattractive to the LH service for connecting pax - a connection in MUC/IST, and then another hour or so on the ground at SIN. For those that live in markets with nonstop EK, EY, and/or QR service, pax can enjoy a seamless one-stop connection option through DXB/AUH/DOH, given that there is nonstop service to CGK from those hubs. Even so, I would imagine the main reason for this cancellation is SQ, which launched MUC-SIN back in 2010. I would imagine they grabbed a substantial chunk of O&D traffic between Munich and Singapore, leaving LH with much more lower-yielding connecting traffic than before.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):
There is talk in Jakarta that LH will delink KUL from BKK and start a nonstop FRA KUL service, which would then be extended to CGK. LH has been suffering the effects from EK/QR/EY as well as TK in CGK and it is losing out in KUL not only to the Middle Eastern carriers, but also to KL, which goes nonstop daily into KUL and will reinforce frequencies there to 10 weekly from the winter.

If LH is really struggling in KUL, I suspect they would be far more likely to drop service to the market rather than upgrade it to a nonstop service. I have no idea how much traffic there is between Germany and CGK, but I doubt it is enough to save a weak LH Southeast Asian route/market from the axe. If the CGK-bound pax weren't helping MUC-SIN make the cut, I daresay they wouldn't do much good for FRA-KUL either.

First the European majors retrenched from Australasia, ceding the market to Southeast Asian and Middle Eastern competitors. It seems like this is now happening with secondary Southeast Asian markets as well, particularly those like MNL, KUL, and CGK which apparently don't have the yields to support much in the way of nonstop service to Europe. The notable exception appears to be KL, which is not only maintaining service to the likes of MNL (long after all other European competitors pulled out) and apparently thriving in CGK, but also rapidly expanding service in the region with new services to secondary Chinese markets! Obviously with regard to CGK the old colonial ties between the Netherlands and Indonesia must play their part, but why are they also the only European airline able to make TPE, MNL, CTU, etc. work? Is it due to relatively low costs, a strong AMS hub that is not heavily constrained by slots/runway facilities/terminal capacity like other major European hubs, or...?

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16):
What is CGK waiting for? Seems to me Indonesia is a perfect candidate for the whale jet.

CGK is probably waiting for an airline to firmly commit to A380 service before investing in all of the costly facilities improvements necessary to support the aircraft. We saw this happen with a number of U.S. airports, IAH and MIA spring to mind. I would imagine the only potential A380 service at CGK would be EK, and even that may be years off as the airline probably has a lot of other markets in mind for the aircraft before CGK.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
LJ
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 22):
Obviously with regard to CGK the old colonial ties between the Netherlands and Indonesia must play their part, but why are they also the only European airline able to make TPE, MNL, CTU, etc. work?

AF/KL is not the only one making secondary Chinese destinations work (LH and AY are also in this market). However, KL has Skyteam partners GA in Indonesia, CI in Taiwan and MU/CZ in China. This will probably help KL a little bit. Moreover, KL is the only Euroepan major which can't support a dedicated flight to SIN, thus calling it successful.....

Anyway, rumours are that GA will introduce a nonstop CGK-AMS next year when their 77Ws arrive. Will be interesting if this materialises as rumours also suggest that their CGK-DXB-AMS isn't performing well.
 
visualapproach
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting SQ325 (Reply 12):

Well, I had a KUL-BKK booking and my booking management app has just notified me that the times have changed, along with the aircraft from 747 to A340-600.
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting CX288 (Reply 21):
I heard that the FRA-BKK flight will be moved to MUC and then be operated with Airbus.

I highly doubt that BKK will only be connected to MUC and not FRA.
 
docpepz
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:54 am

Lufthansa operates the following services to the far east from Munich:

Delhi
Mumbai
Seoul
Hong Kong
Beijing
Shanghai
Tokyo
Singapore/Jakarta

On the SIN route, they have direct competition from SQ.
On Seoul, from KE (different alliance)
Beijing from CA
Tokyo from NH
Mumbai, Delhi and HKG they're the only airline.

You would probably find that if CX started HKGMUC, there wouldn't be enough demand for both CX and LH to make it work.

Perhaps this means SQ could take SIN-MUC direct, delink it from MAN and link MAN to another city?
 
LJ
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:52 am

Quoting frat (Reply 25):
I highly doubt that BKK will only be connected to MUC and not FRA.

Why not? They also have TG serving BKK 2 daily ex FRA thus no real need to have a flight ex FRA. Moreover the current FRA-BKK flight is scheduled late in the evening (2215), thus any delay will get the flight into trouble with the curfew. Thus it makes alot of sense to move this flight to MUC.
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 27):
Quoting frat (Reply 25):
I highly doubt that BKK will only be connected to MUC and not FRA.

Why not? They also have TG serving BKK 2 daily ex FRA thus no real need to have a flight ex FRA. Moreover the current FRA-BKK flight is scheduled late in the evening (2215), thus any delay will get the flight into trouble with the curfew. Thus it makes alot of sense to move this flight to MUC.

Because LH strategy so far had no longhaul flights in MUC to destinations without FRA connex. So far CLT was the only exception with reasons in the automotive industry. Now the CPT seasonal flight will move to MUC but I don't think that a hub to hub route will be swapped as well.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:55 pm

Interesting that both of SQ's German destinations have tag-ons: MUC (777) continues to MAN and FRA (A380) continues to JFK.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
CX288
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:42 pm

Quoting frat (Reply 28):
Because LH strategy so far had no longhaul flights in MUC to destinations without FRA connex. So far CLT was the only exception with reasons in the automotive industry.



Montreal is also served only out of MUC by LH (AC flies between YMQ and FRA, but US operates between CLT and FRA)
 
Senchingo
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 26):
Lufthansa operates the following services to the far east from Munich:

Delhi
Mumbai
Seoul
Hong Kong
Beijing
Shanghai
Tokyo
Singapore/Jakarta

On the SIN route, they have direct competition from SQ.
On Seoul, from KE (different alliance)
Beijing from CA
Tokyo from NH
Mumbai, Delhi and HKG they're the only airline.

You would probably find that if CX started HKGMUC, there wouldn't be enough demand for both CX and LH to make it work.

"The far east... Delhi, Mumbai" Are they actually considered far east?

"On Seoul from KE (different alliance)" KE is not serving MUC. They did with cargo a/c, but gave up during the economic crisis. I don't know another airline serving MUC-ICN directly.

"Tokyo from NH" LH and NH have a very close tied JV (soon also including Swiss and Austrian), so this is not competition.

"if CX started HKGMUC" CX did serve this, but only cargo. They had 3x weekly 744F but ended the service shortly before KE during economic crisis. I also don't see the market to HKG big enough in MUC to have two airlines competing - just like you.

Quoting Cassi (Reply 3):
There is no doubt that most of the long (12 hours) A343/A346 routes are in trouble at the current high fuel prices and we are going to see more cuts. For some competitor airlines like EK it is a much more efficient 6 8 hour flight with 77W's.

Sure fuel prices are becoming a huge factor and the A346 is not the best a/c to serve long haul routes, but i don't think this is the reason to stop the leg as LH is serving all long haul routes ex MUC by their Airbus.

My personal guess is that there's just not enough demand for a MUC-SIN-CGK flight, especially with SQ offering a very similar ride with a much better product (you can hate me now).

Would it be possible that the news of "ending" a route is not bad but good? What if LH is now going to drop MUC-SIN and instead will offer a MUC-CGK flight soon? If JFK-HKG is possible, then this should be no problem i guess.

Quoting SQ325 (Reply 12):
There are strong rumors that are saying that BKK will lose its B744 and get an A346 instead

That would interest me, really. Just few days ago i missed the 744 and suddenly a 346 was rolling by. Even though i read that it might have been just a VIP charter... We'll see.
 
FlyingHollander
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting Senchingo (Reply 31):
"The far east... Delhi, Mumbai" Are they actually considered far east?

I think I would consider those further east than the Middle East as apposed to the Far East...

On an other note, I hope KLM will now be able to serve CGK nonstop. I've heard some rumors, although never from a reliable source, that this could be possible in the near future. I know many people who would be happy if this were to happen.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 29):
Interesting that both of SQ's German destinations have tag-ons: MUC (777) continues to MAN and FRA (A380) continues to JFK.

SIN-FRA is twice daily though.

SQ25/SQ26 is an early morning arrival/noon depature on the A380, SQ325/SQ326 is an early evening arrival/late evening departure on the B77W.

SQ25/SQ26 has a tag-on to JFK, but SQ325/SQ326 turns around in Frankfurt.
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:52 am

Quoting CX288 (Reply 30):
Montreal is also served only out of MUC by LH (AC flies between YMQ and FRA, but US operates between CLT and FRA)

You are right with YUL being also a sole MUC destination for LH but AC is in a JV with LH whereas US is not.
 
OJ99
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:20 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:19 am

Now officially confirmed:

LH will end MUC-SIN-CGK on October 14th 2012. Passengers booked to SIN after this day will be rebooked via FRA. Service to CGK will be discontinued.

Link in German only:
http://presse.lufthansa.com/de/meldu...ive/2012/july/23/article/2197.html
 
airevents
Posts: 755
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2002 7:20 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:31 am

Wow, a lot of network-downsizing at the moment...
www.airevents.com
 
Turkish350XWB
Posts: 463
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting OJ99 (Reply 35):
Link in German only:
http://presse.lufthansa.com/de/meldu....html

They are saying that the reason is the lack of a 3rd runway and that the current infrastructure is not capable. I think this is just a false pretense. They have the slots but they decided to stop this route. This is their way to put pressure on the airport extension.
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:04 am

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 37):
They are saying that the reason is the lack of a 3rd runway and that the current infrastructure is not capable. I think this is just a false pretense. They have the slots but they decided to stop this route. This is their way to put pressure on the airport extension.

Bingo.

Every suspension or downgauching in MUC is because oft the decision to not build the 3rd runway. Same thing in FRA where there reason for reductions is the night curfew.
Sounds better than saying that the loads are too bad.
 
mloew
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:58 am

IMO switching FRA-BKK to MUC would make no sense as
a) TG has a daily 744 MUC-BKK flight (which might gets the new 77W in near future)
b) TG has two daily FRA flights (one 744 which will soon switches to the 388 and one 77W) with a (soon) far better product than LH
c) LH would have to move another a/c from FRA to MUC (the current SIN/CGK will take the new CPT route) and when you take a closer look at their actual downsizing-strategy in MUC this seems not realistic.

I think it would even be possible that LH stops/downgrades BKK from FRA and start a new FRA-KUL-CGK flight.

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 37):
They are saying that the reason is the lack of a 3rd runway and that the current infrastructure is not capable. I think this is just a false pretense. They have the slots but they decided to stop this route. This is their way to put pressure on the airport extension.

There is no other way for LH. They took 50% of the costs for both T2 and the new midfield satellite. If MUC has't got the 3rd RWY in the next decade, LH would have a serious problem in MUC
Proudly flying Oman Air
 
LH506
Posts: 246
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:03 pm

I already wrote about a year ago, after LH closed Kalkotta, CAN & HYD, that the next destinations to be stopped will be CGK, KUL and SGN. Said to see this happening with CGK and the downsizing of BKK-KUL/SGN to 346. At the end LH will downsize itself to become a pure *A Hub to Hub airline plus some metropolitan airports like JFK or LAX. I hope that this strategy works out for them. I fear though, that many of the passengers looking to fly to the likes of KUL, HYD, YYC...instead of connecting in SIN, DEL, YYZ will also fly with SQ, AI or AC from FRA, so the passengers are gone and do not fill their 380s and 748Is.
NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
LH422
Posts: 384
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RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:06 pm

CGK was almost the furthest destination from home (after EZE, I believe?). Hard to believe LH used to fly to Australia.

So how many of these tag-on flights are left for Lufthansa? I believe they're mainly in Africa and Asia.
 
OJ99
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:20 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 41):
So how many of these tag-on flights are left for Lufthansa? I believe they're mainly in Africa and Asia.

There are only a couple of them left that come to my mind:

ex FRA:
- SGN (via BKK)
- KUL (via BKK)
- MCT (via RUH)
- BAH (via DOH)
- ADD (via KRT)
- PHC (via LOS)
- SSG (via ABV)
- ASM (via JED)

ex MUC:
- PUS (via ICN)
 
tailfin
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 7:04 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 37):
this is just a false pretense. They have the slots but they decided to stop this route. This is their way to put pressure on the airport extension

Agreed. But at some stage it just becomes ridiculous. The airports and politicians aren't that stupid surely. And LH could end up doing themselves no favours.

LH moves the FRA-CPT to MUC to put pressure on policy at FRA airport regarding the night curfew. Win for MUC.

Lufthansa press release: "The evening flight to Cape Town will now be moved from Frankfurt to Munich in the interests of increased flight operation reliability and stability"

LH cancels MUC-SIN(-CGK) because of airport capacity problems at MUC regarding policy on the third runway.

So according to LH logic, I don't know what the definition of "increased flight operation reliability and stability" is available at MUC for a CPT flight if they are forced to cancel SIN/CGK due to the restrictions at MUC. Lufthansa's own politics is becoming inconsistent. Moving flights to the "better" airport and then cancelling other flights already at the "better" airport doesn't add up if both are viable.

FRA flights cannot be transferred sustainably to MUC (apparantly due to restrictions at MUC). Subject MUC flights (e.g. SIN) cannot be transferred to FRA due to restrictions at FRA. Call a spade a spade. The two airports cannot be pitted against each other as competitors as LH has problems at both of them. Neither one is becoming more attractive. They had been good at this up to now, but threatening to move or cancel flights to other airports which also have problems, is not going to work.

The tag-on on certain flights I'm sure are just very expensive to operate where you need separate crews just for the tag-on sectors. The shorter tag-ons where the same crew operates them will not be as big an issue. I think most of the LH tag-on flights now fit into the shorter category with one crew operating to the end destination in Africa and Middle East. Cost control.
 
mloew
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:19 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:10 pm

Quoting OJ99 (Reply 42):
There are only a couple of them left that come to my mind:

ex FRA:
- SGN (via BKK)
- KUL (via BKK)
- MCT (via RUH)
- BAH (via DOH)
- ADD (via KRT)
- PHC (via LOS)
- SSG (via ABV)
- ASM (via JED)

ex MUC:
- PUS (via ICN)

Plus there is a MUC-RUH-JED flight (but it is rather new)
Proudly flying Oman Air
 
LH422
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:21 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:27 pm

Quoting OJ99 (Reply 42):
ex FRA:
- SGN (via BKK)
- KUL (via BKK)
- MCT (via RUH)
- BAH (via DOH)
- ADD (via KRT)
- PHC (via LOS)
- SSG (via ABV)
- ASM (via JED)

ex MUC:
- PUS (via ICN)

I can think of

FRA-SHE-TAO
FRA-GYD-ASB
FRA-KZN-PEE

What did we miss?
 
tailfin
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 7:04 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 45):
What did we miss?

FRA-TSE-ALA (if it counts, as it generally operates a triangle route FRA-TSE-ALA-FRA or FRA-ALA-TSE-FRA)
FRA-LBV-PNR (although operated by Privatair for Lufthansa)
 
LJ
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting tailfin (Reply 43):

So according to LH logic, I don't know what the definition of "increased flight operation reliability and stability" is available at MUC for a CPT flight if they are forced to cancel SIN/CGK due to the restrictions at MUC. Lufthansa's own politics is becoming inconsistent. Moving flights to the "better" airport and then cancelling other flights already at the "better" airport doesn't add up if both are viable.

Have you ever seen a press release announcing a cancellation where they site poor demand as a reason? It's always the fault of an exterior circumstance. I doubt many remember the previous press releases like you did, thus the media just copies it from the LH press release.
 
r2rho
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:50 am

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 37):
They are saying that the reason is the lack of a 3rd runway and that the current infrastructure is not capable. I think this is just a false pretense. They have the slots but they decided to stop this route. This is their way to put pressure on the airport extension.

Though there is no doubt that it will happen in the coming years, it is still far too early to be closing routes citing the still very fresh decision to cancel the airport expansion. This was simply a poor performing route, and LH searched for an excuse to put into its press release. LH needs to be more careful with its communication strategy, the 3rd runway is necessary but they have to go more careful about it in public.
 
docpepz
Posts: 1706
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 8:20 pm

RE: Lufthansa Ending Jakarta Service?

Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:50 am

Word just out that SQ is reducing SINFRAJFK to 77W from A380 in Northern Winter 2012. This means the loss of 200 seats a day SINFRA and with LH, that's 220 seats a day SINMUC.

SQ is probably going to rape the SIN-Germany market by charging whatever fares it so pleases! Maybe QF would be pleased as well.