MJBATC12
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DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:29 pm

Hey all,

Brand new here, first post. If anyone didn't see, RDU's Facebook page, it said DL was ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS..

I'm from BDL, so figured sooner or later this would happen..

Just as SFO is about to start there at RDU, they lose seasonal B738 to LAX on DL, and 3 other routes, good sized cuts.

No date, anyone find anything on it?
'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:35 pm

Maybe its not loaded in the GDS yet but i just checked different dates all the way to the end of next May and i'm still showint BOS-RDU available for sale.
 
FSDan
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:55 pm

Out of all of those, I'm most surprised/disappointed about RDU-BOS. They currently have 7x daily on that route. I guess B6 will get that one to themselves.

Looks like RDU-MCO and RDU-BWI will remain... Weird.
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Josh32121
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:04 pm

To clarify, it appears someone posted in the comments section of another post on RDU's Facebook page that DL was cutting these cities. I don't see a post by RDU in the last few days that says that.

Enilria posts these very interesting threads weekly, I believe, that show filed schedule changes, and the RDU changes are posted and discussed at some length there: OAG Changes 7/20/2012: B6/DL/UA/WN (by enilria Jul 17 2012 in Civil Aviation)

It appears that BOS is not cut, but two daily frequencies are being dropped. It's also speculated that these cities are seasonal to begin with, so it's plausible that the routes will return next year.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:04 pm

Just to clarify...

RDU-BDL and CMH are ending..

RDU-LAX is just going on its seasonal hiatus

RDU-BOS is not ending at all...
Aiming High and going far..
 
MJBATC12
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:33 pm

That's funny, because I saw it, people were commenting on it, and they said exactly "Delta will end service to los Angeles, Columbus, Hartford and Boston."

No dates were put on there though.... some fraud managing that page I guess? Haha.
'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
 
FWAERJ
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:20 am

Does DL still fly RDU-IND?
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FSDan
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:36 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
Does DL still fly RDU-IND?

Yep. There is even a daily E-Jet on RDU-IND.
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jporterfi
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:39 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):

Yes, through CP (Compass Airlines, not Canadian Airlines) and 9E. The route is operated with E170s and CR2s.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:49 am

It would be very nice if RDU could gt some discontinued routes replaced. Some are sorely missed.
Aiming High and going far..
 
xjramper
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:49 am

Sorry. I just looked through their FB page and it shows nothing of the likes that you posted. Care to share a link?
Look ma' no hands!
 
cessna2
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:39 am

The page says exactly and I quote, "Delta Air Lines will be ending service to Hartford, Los Angeles, and Columbus. Delta will also be cutting flights to Boston."

So i'm not sure how one gets they are ending service to BOS. Its just a flight reduction from 7 back down to 5. LAX is gone for what we think seasonally...but i wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't come back. DL made a mistake with poor departure times giving UA the opportunity to seize a RDU-West coast-Asia business market more catered to the business traveler with better departure times.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:05 am

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 11):
The page says exactly and I quote, "Delta Air Lines will be ending service to Hartford, Los Angeles, and Columbus. Delta will also be cutting flights to Boston."

So i'm not sure how one gets they are ending service to BOS. Its just a flight reduction from 7 back down to 5. LAX is gone for what we think seasonally...but i wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't come back. DL made a mistake with poor departure times giving UA the opportunity to seize a RDU-West coast-Asia business market more catered to the business traveler with better departure times.

Facebook, like wikipedia is not a good source for factual information:

Again to repeat what's been said above:

RDU-CMH - being cut
RDU-BDL - being cut

That's it, the rest is more or less normal adjustments:

RDU-LAX - 5x per week, is suspended for Dec, Jan, Feb (except for 2 weeks around the holidays), like it has been in past years. It is scheduled to return in the spring

RDU-BOS - is already now at 5x per day, there was a reduction in frequency when they upgauged to all 2-class RJs. This route is NOT being cut

RDU-IND - is NOT being cut. This route has been around for many years dating back to the PMNW days. There are several key business ties between IND and RDU that support this route

RDU is losing 4 CRJ flight, thats it for now.
 
ANA787
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:18 am

So much for DL starting RDU-CDG.
 
xjramper
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:23 am

I stand corrected, slightly. RDU has made a statement saying that LAX is seasonal and the only one getting cut is BDL.

The problem with the LAX flight is that Delta doesn't have the equipment/crew to support a 738 to fly from RDU-LAX in the AM. And the only way to sustain the red-eye is to float the flight rdu-lax-rdu in the evening, as opposed to sitting on the ramp for the night after its arrival from DTW (what it does the rest of the week it doesn't operate).

The loss of departures nonstop to LAX is supplemented by the multiple departure available to and from all Delta hubs.
Look ma' no hands!
 
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b727fa
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:47 am

Never quite understood those routes anyway...
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:10 am

Quoting xjramper (Reply 14):
The problem with the LAX flight is that Delta doesn't have the equipment/crew to support a 738 to fly from RDU-LAX in the AM.

Would this problem not be solved by establishing ATL-RDU-LAX? Seems like they could send a plane with crew from ATL as the first flight to RDU around 7a then leave for LAX around 930a with an afternoon return. They could also deadhead crew pretty easily out of ATL on the current 730a to fly at 10a.
 
MJBATC12
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:07 pm

Quoting cessna2 (Reply 11):
Quoting cessna2 (Reply 11):
The page says exactly and I quote, "Delta Air Lines will be ending service to Hartford, Los Angeles, and Columbus. Delta will also be cutting flights to Boston."

THANK YOU! I swear, I'm NOT hallucinating.... it WAS there..... hmm..
'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
 
MJBATC12
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:10 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 13):
Quoting ANA787 (Reply 13):
So much for DL starting RDU-CDG.

They did that to BDL too. They said they would restart BDL-AMS in 2010, but never did and backed out a few weeks before start time...

I remember seeing the post for that flight for RDU-CDG, but looks like they abandoned also...
'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
 
xjramper
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 16):
Would this problem not be solved by establishing ATL-RDU-LAX? Seems like they could send a plane with crew from ATL as the first flight to RDU around 7a then leave for LAX around 930a with an afternoon return. They could also deadhead crew pretty easily out of ATL on the current 730a to fly at 10a.

That's why they don't do it now. That would be a horrible utilization of an aircraft. It would be able to fly ATL-RDU-LAX-RDU and that would be it for the day as RDU's last flight is scheduled to depart before 2000. And with an extra 738 in LAX, where would they send it and how would they get an aircraft back on the line for the redeye?

And on the other hand, that red-eye is a favourite of the business community, as they can finish their business all day in and around the Los Angeles area and then hop on the LAX-RDU red-eye. So Delta wouldn't be able to capture those business folks if it left mid-afternoon.

I am sure that Delta looked at the SFO area with regards to the RTP area here being a solid argument. But since SFO is mainly a spoke city (with the exception of the NRT/HNL routes) and SkyTeam presence isn't as pronounced as it is in LAX, it didn't make sense to start a route there as they would have to heavily rely on O&D traffic.

Now, if only they would start RDU-SLC.....
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cessna2
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting xjramper (Reply 19):
And on the other hand, that red-eye is a favourite of the business community, as they can finish their business all day in and around the Los Angeles area and then hop on the LAX-RDU red-eye. So Delta wouldn't be able to capture those business folks if it left mid-afternoon.

That may be true in some cases but the business community around here have constantly complained about the timing of the flight. The Red-eye isn't as bad as leaving RDU at 7pm and arriving LAX at 10pm. If they could of scheduled a morning departure there wouldn't have been such an uproar.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:11 pm

This thread is exhibit #5,233,749 why FB should never be cited as a reliable source. In other news, RDU is now "in a relationship" with FAY.  

Really, I think this move was expected. As DL cuts more of the CRJ's from its fleet, RDU will probably lose more of its experimental non-stops. DL has upped freqs to DTW and LGA (incl one mainline). They've also up-gauged some ATL rounds for the next few months. Personally, I'll settle for the additional mainline seats.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 13):
So much for DL starting RDU-CDG.

I fail to see the relation to RDU-BDL and RDU-CMH? DL already announced, then unannounced CDG in 2009ish.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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ERJ170
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:26 pm

Nice and all, but let's think of the routes RDU has lost..

BDL
CMH
JAX
MSY
bHM
MCI
AUS
SAT
CUN
PVD
MKE
RSW
PHX

And that's exclusive of the hub days.. And when you think of the other airports the pax size of RDU and what they have, you realize that RDU is kinda short on flights.. RDU counterparts in its class include BNA, PIT, STL, IND.. So I'm thinking some routes listed should be able to hang but they haven't.. Just a lil glum in my opinion..
Aiming High and going far..
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting erj170 (Reply 22):
BNA, PIT, STL, IND

RDU's not quite in the same category as these markets except for BNA....and the main reason BNA sees more destinations is because WN uses it as a mini-hub. They don't do this with RDU.

Combined Statistical Area (CSA) population:

STL 2.89 million
PIT 2.45 million
IND 2.10 million
RDU 1.80 million
BNA 1.70 million

While CSA is not a perfect measure for determine air service population, the bottomline is that RDU is quite a bit smaller than the markets you listed.
 
FSDan
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:14 am

Quoting erj170 (Reply 22):
Nice and all, but let's think of the routes RDU has lost..

BDL
CMH
JAX
MSY
bHM
MCI
AUS
SAT
CUN
PVD
MKE
RSW
PHX

And that's exclusive of the hub days.. And when you think of the other airports the pax size of RDU and what they have, you realize that RDU is kinda short on flights.. RDU counterparts in its class include BNA, PIT, STL, IND.. So I'm thinking some routes listed should be able to hang but they haven't.. Just a lil glum in my opinion..

My opinion is that RDU really can't complain. For starters they have a daily, year-round transatlantic flight... that's more than what any of those other cities you listed currently has. RDU has more flights than PIT and IND (and a similar number of destinations) and more flights than similarly-sized metro areas like Hartford, Buffalo, and Birmingham. St. Louis is a much larger metro area, and deserves more flights. Same could be said (to a lesser extent) for Nashville.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:06 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 12):
Facebook, like wikipedia is not a good source for factual information:

Again to repeat what's been said above:

RDU-CMH - being cut
RDU-BDL - being cut

There appears to have been another schedule update that went out, and it now appears that both CMH and BDL stay, instead of being cut are instead going to operate 1x per day instead of 2 as it is now.

The flights were gone a few days ago, but now appear to be back at 1x per day.

Can anyone confirm whether they are actually dropping these routes?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
RDU's not quite in the same category as these markets except for BNA....and the main reason BNA sees more destinations is because WN uses it as a mini-hub.

Nashville's air service population is understated by the CSA by quite a bit because it excludes Clarksville/Hopkinsville (population ~270,000 plus a very large military base) and Bowling Green (population ~130,000), both of which use BNA exclusively, as they lack airports with commercial service).
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xjramper
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
Nashville's air service population is understated by the CSA by quite a bit because it excludes Clarksville/Hopkinsville (population ~270,000 plus a very large military base) and Bowling Green (population ~130,000), both of which use BNA exclusively, as they lack airports with commercial service).

I cannot speak for the other cities, but RDU tends to capture FAY/GSO/Rocky Mount/Greenville/Goldsboro and basically any surrounding areas to the North/East/South of RDU. And these cities do not include military who get dropped off every single Tuesday from surrounding installations/camps.

So yeah, RDU is in the same category, imo.
Look ma' no hands!
 
MJBATC12
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 25):
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 25):
There appears to have been another schedule update that went out, and it now appears that both CMH and BDL stay, instead of being cut are instead going to operate 1x per day instead of 2 as it is now.

The flights were gone a few days ago, but now appear to be back at 1x per day.

Can anyone confirm whether they are actually dropping these routes?

That would be good if it stayed... Would mean another DL cut to BDL, since we just lost DCA a week ago due to slot swap. If anyone can confirm that CMH and BDL are NOT being cut by DL out of RDU, please advise!
'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 23):
RDU's not quite in the same category as these markets except for BNA....and the main reason BNA sees more destinations is because WN uses it as a mini-hub. They don't do this with RDU.

Combined Statistical Area (CSA) population:

STL 2.89 million
PIT 2.45 million
IND 2.10 million
RDU 1.80 million
BNA 1.70 million

While CSA is not a perfect measure for determine air service population, the bottomline is that RDU is quite a bit smaller than the markets you listed.

Actually, RDU has more pax/yr than all of those except STL (2010 numbers). RDU is a smaller CSA, but with higher demand.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
cessna2
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:54 am

Quoting rduddji (Reply 29):
Actually, RDU has more pax/yr than all of those except STL (2010 numbers). RDU is a smaller CSA, but with higher demand.

  
Simple math...If an area has 2.8 million people they may not fly as often as an area with 1.8 million people. Business markets play a big role in this. RDU happens to be one of the top markets in the south.
 
Lexy
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:09 am

Quoting rduddji (Reply 29):
Actually, RDU has more pax/yr than all of those except STL (2010 numbers). RDU is a smaller CSA, but with higher demand.

BNA had over 9.4 million for 2011 I believe while RDU had around 9.1 million.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting lexy (Reply 31):
BNA had over 9.4 million for 2011 I believe while RDU had around 9.1 million.

Wikipedia showed RDU with a very slight "boardings" lead in 2010, but I'll agree that they are neck and neck. I didn't find 2011 numbers. I would have expected BNA to be significantly larger with the WN hub.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ports_by_total_passenger_boardings
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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CV880
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting rduddji (Reply 29):
Actually, RDU has more pax/yr than all of those except STL (2010 numbers). RDU is a smaller CSA, but with higher demand.

RDU also serves the very mobile student bodies of DUKE, UNC, & NCState, which has to help the numbers.
 
Lexy
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RE: DL Ending RDU-LAX/CMH/BDL/BOS

Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:46 am

Quoting rduddji (Reply 32):
Wikipedia showed RDU with a very slight "boardings" lead in 2010, but I'll agree that they are neck and neck. I didn't find 2011 numbers. I would have expected BNA to be significantly larger with the WN hub.

Both airports websites have that info for 2011 as far as I know. BNA has, in recent memory, been slightly ahead of RDU but you're right they are neck and neck. BNA's has been growing fast and with the recenty flight announcements that is sure to continue. Big thing with them is the tourist/convention traffic and of course, the music industry. It is to Nashville what the phramaceutical industry is the Raleigh.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA

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