747400sp
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Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:35 pm

I was wondering, could HA launch HNL-MIA service in the future? Honolulu and Miami, are both beautiful and warm cities, and it would be nice, to have them link. An A330 200, has the legs to do this route, so is there a chance of it happening.
 
kaitak
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:39 pm

While HA's 330s could do it, technically, it doesn't strike me as a route that would be that popular; for a start, Floridians already live somewhere warm, so they wouldn't necessarily choose another warm, sunny place for hols. Secondly, are there any major business or cultural links between FL and HA? And finally, given the level of connection options between the two places (e.g. DL via ATL, AA via DFW, UA via ORD etc), yields would probably be very low. I'd be very surprised to see this happen.
 
phxa340
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I was wondering, could HA launch HNL-MIA service in the future?

Why fly 8-9 + hours when you have a sunny beach right in front of you ?
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:43 pm

You need the right beach to surf, Hawai'i tops them all. (IMHO)
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
747400sp
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
While HA's 330s could do it, technically, it doesn't strike me as a route that would be that popular; for a start, Floridians already live somewhere warm, so they wouldn't necessarily choose another warm, sunny place for hols.
Quoting phxa340 (Reply 2):
Why fly 8-9 + hours when you have a sunny beach right in front of you ?




Los Angeles has plenty of great beaches, with great surfing, but HA operates two A330s from LAX to HNL.      
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:53 pm

Actually there are quite a few travelers from Florida to Hawaii but I doubt it's enough to dedicate its own flight. IMO MIA is in the same boat as BOS when it comes to Hawaii service, There is demand but not enough for a dedicated flight.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 4):
Los Angeles has plenty of great beaches, with great surfing, but HA operates two A330s from LAX to HNL
HNL-LAX has half the cost of operations compared to HNL-MIA. We are talking about namely fuel here.

In order to make HNL-MIA work, you need a healthy premium demand out of MIA. I dont think that's the case. Even with a good premium demand, the route might still not be viable, due to the length of the segment involved.

Same reason why you dont have MIA-East Asia service currently. Demand is there, but chances are the route will still not generate enough yields (if any) to make it work.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2012-07-19 11:57:35]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SANFan
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:28 pm

HNL-MIA, if even on the "list" would be WAY down toward the bottom. Expecially considering that HA is concentrating on intl (Pacific rim) expansion, any domestic (mainland) growth would find almost anything more likely than Florida!

bb
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:28 pm

If Floridians are looking for a tropical island to relax on, there are numerous ones much closer- most only 1 to 3 hours away......
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:29 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
In order to make HNL-MIA work, you need a healthy premium demand out of MIA

That's correct. I am even skeptical that JFK-HNL will do that well for HA. The costs is almost 2x that of HNL-LAX yet the rev/pax wont be double. To fly an A330 that far you need premium demand and cargo.
 
RKSofACinUSA
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 2):
Why fly 8-9 + hours when you have a sunny beach right in front of you ?

A statement like this leads me to believe you are not too familiar with either place. They are nothing alike.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6):
In order to make HNL-MIA work, you need a healthy premium demand out of MIA. I dont think that's the case. Even with a good premium demand, the route might still not be viable, due to the length of the segment involved.

Or HA would need a healthy code-share partner feeding many connecting passengers to their flight in MIA.
 
phxa340
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:50 pm

Quoting RKSofACinUSA (Reply 10):
A statement like this leads me to believe you are not too familiar with either place. They are nothing alike.

Been to both many many times. Yes they are completely different types of sunny beaches if that is what you are trying to say. I just wouldn't want to pay almost a thousand dollars to fly 9+ hours to go to Hawaii from FL.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
The costs is almost 2x that of HNL-LAX yet the rev/pax wont be double.

  
 
canyonblue17
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:28 pm

As someone who lives in South Florida I would be the first to buy a ticket on that route. Yes, both places are warm, pretty and tropical, but there are significant differences as well. One, you can't mountain bike down a volcano in Florida. Two, surfing is about a billion times better in Hawaii. Three, grass skirts - need I say more. Four, culture - it is a different world and history in Hawaii. These are just a few reasons why I think this route is a great idea. New York and London have similar geographies, but a lot of people fly back and forth between them.
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
RKSofACinUSA
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 12):
As someone who lives in South Florida I would be the first to buy a ticket on that route. Yes, both places are warm, pretty and tropical, but there are significant differences as well. One, you can't mountain bike down a volcano in Florida. Two, surfing is about a billion times better in Hawaii. Three, grass skirts - need I say more. Four, culture - it is a different world and history in Hawaii. These are just a few reasons why I think this route is a great idea. New York and London have similar geographies, but a lot of people fly back and forth between them.

   Well said.
 
phxa340
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:48 pm

Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 12):
New York and London have similar geographies, but a lot of people fly back and forth between them.

Made possible by the high yield business customers between the 2 cities. I think that the route could fill up easily , but not so sure profitably. Fares from JFK-HNL are hovering around 670 not incl taxes. I think the JFK route will do OK , but for Miami to work it will need feed from AA.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:36 pm

HNL-MCO more likely IMHO.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
panpan
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:58 pm

I wonder. It's true that the yields might never be there to support flights based on O&D, Hawaiin has been slowly building their destinations in asia and oceana and I wonder if the day will come where the flight could be supported with connecting traffic. I know if I was heading to Sydney and had to make at least one stop anyway, I'd rather transit through HNL than LAX or SFO.
 
HAL
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
I am even skeptical that JFK-HNL will do that well for HA. The costs is almost 2x that of HNL-LAX yet the rev/pax wont be double. To fly an A330 that far you need premium demand and cargo.

{insert heavy sigh}.   I don't know how many time I have to repeat this in various threads, but the length of a flight is a very poor determination of the cost to the airline. There are huge costs related to the ground operation of an airline, with a very short list including gate rental, ticket counter rental, landing fees, administrative staff, ground staff, training department, advertising, and insurance. Those costs have to be absorbed by the fares, no matter how long or short the flight is. Then there are big per-cycle costs for the aircraft, including per-cycle inspection costs, maintenance, and wear & tear. A much greater portion of the fuel is used in the takeoff and initial climb compared to cruise too. In all, that first foot off the runway is a really expensive one. The additional cost for the longer crew-hours is miniscule compared to the rest of the costs.

It's not all that intuitive of course, which is why the people of Hawaii have complained so loudly about the cost of interisland flights. They say "But it's only 60 miles to Kauai!" Yes, but it still costs the airline almost as much to fly that 60 miles as is would be to fly 300.

Flying MIA-HNL would be more expensive than LAX-HNL, but it certainly wouldn't cost twice as much to the airline. Maybe something on the order of an additional 20% - 30%, yes, but not 100%.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
KLAXAirport
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:27 pm

I was onboard a HA A330 flight from HNL-LAX and I was talking to a FA, that has been with the Airline for 20+ years, and I brought up the question if she thought HA would ever go to Florida and she said HA is very unlikely to go to Florida. However, now with the JetBlue Partnership it may be possible however I highly doubt HA will ever serve Florida.

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   

[Edited 2012-07-19 16:28:44]
 
KLAXAirport
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:29 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 4):

And a daily 767 in the peak season.

Cheers,
KLAXAirport  airplane 

[Edited 2012-07-19 16:30:43]
 
N62NA
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:52 pm

I'm a resident of Miami Beach Florida and I took a trip to Honolulu, Maui and Lanai a few years ago and while it was a great trip and a wonderful place to visit, I found it not worth another 10+ hour flight anytime soon. We've got Freeport and Nassau about 30 to 45 minutes away, both of which, in my opinion, have much nicer beaches and much warmer water.

For those looking for mountains as part of their tropical / sub-tropical island experience, there's a wide variety of choices as close as the Dominican Republic.
 
AJMIA
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:35 am

I think if HA would fly to Florida they would most likely choose MCO over MIA.

If anyone could make MIA-HNL work it would be AA with an am flight out of MIA to pick up connections from all the redeye deep south American flights as well as early am flights from other Florida cities.

AJMIA
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Pohakuloa
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting HAL (Reply 17):

I feel your heavy sighs here HAL. Hawaii flying is a different game all together and many here do not quite grasp the differences though many want so badly to make sense of it all without bucking "popular belief". I know yourself being a part of an airline who has made it work for years can see it and enthusiasts who pay close attention to what's said above the white noise are doing so as well.

That being said, the only, repeat, ONLY way HA would even imagine opening a route(s) such as HNL-MIA/MCO is if the cargo demand between the two city pairs were enough to vouch for likely lighter than desired pax loads at even 3x weekly frequencies. However, if it were only 3x weekly and cargo was the only thing keeping the route alive, then likely Kalitta, Atlas, Polar, etc., would already be flying the route year round and HA would still very likely not operate the route.

The carriage of cargo on routes HA flies seems to be very much overlooked by many anetters.... wide bodies arent just good for that spacious feeling inside the cabin...

~ Pohakuloa
Fast cars and 'Jet A' - such a sweet smell!
 
HAL
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:00 am

Quoting Pohakuloa (Reply 22):
That being said, the only, repeat, ONLY way HA would even imagine opening a route(s) such as HNL-MIA/MCO is if the cargo demand between the two city pairs were enough to vouch for likely lighter than desired pax loads at even 3x weekly frequencies.

I agree. My previous post was about the cost of long-haul flights, not promoting MIA as a destination. I could rattle of a dozen or more cities in the U.S. that would be served before MIA, or any other Florida city. I do enjoy going there for my Airbus training, but it's just not a place where HA should be going right now.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:12 am

Connecting vacation destinations is a terrible reason for a route.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 14):

Made possible by the high yield business customers between the 2 cities.

Who? What? Why? When?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
akizidy214
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:13 am

I think the only city SA)">HA will go to east of the LAS is JFK for sometime. MEX is more likely that MIA... What would be interesting is that if SA)">HA had some 737-7 to give SA)">AS and company a run for their money.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 21):
If anyone could make MIA-HNL work it would be SA)">AA with an am flight out of MIA to pick up connections from all the redeye deep south American flights as well as early am flights from other Florida cities.

This would instantly become one of the longest flights if not the longest flight out of MIA on SA)">AA. Its a good 700+ more nautical miles than GRU. With very minimum premium traffic. Anyone coming from SA could easily connect thru DFW.
DCA
 
aztrainer
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:25 am

Could they, Yes....Would/Will they Nope....


Current expansion plan is in Asia with the huge market and not the mainland. As HAL stated the cost on the ground is huge when you are only at a location once a day and do not have dedicated staff. The first 1,000 feet is very expensive on the aircraft, while the rest is where the efficiency of the A/C begins to pay the dividends.
 
AAIL86
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 21):
If anyone could make MIA-HNL work it would be AA with an am flight out of MIA to pick up connections from all the redeye deep south American flights as well as early am flights from other Florida cities.

  

It seems like the most likely scenario for a MIA-HNL route launch will be AA with the 787 ... probably years down the road.

Still, I have my doubts about the viability of this route - we all saw what happened when US tried to make CLT-HNL work.
As everyone keeps mentioning they have all of Florida and the Caribbean right there.
Next
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Could HA Launch HNL-MIA Service In The Future?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
That's correct. I am even skeptical that JFK-HNL will do that well for HA. The costs is almost 2x that of HNL-LAX yet the rev/pax wont be double. To fly an A330 that far you need premium demand and cargo.

Same reason why DL gave up on DTW-HNL. Demand was not that premium as most pax would be connecting out of DTW and can very well connect elsewhere (although DTW is a fantastic airport to connect). NYC might have a lot better chance with high yield o&d than DTW, but that's not granted it is enought to sustain a route. I applaud HA's attempt but I would not be surprised if they drop out one day.
Not sure what are the big cargo hubs that serve HNL, but I'd bet the LAX flights are solidly full, while those from non-Pacific coast airports struggle to fill up the cargo compartments.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
Quoting phxa340 (Reply 14):

Made possible by the high yield business customers between the 2 cities.

Who? What? Why? When?

Initial post refererred to NYC and LON. Yes there are lots of business customers there, as we all know. MIA-HNL, now, that's another story!
When I doubt... go running!

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