wrldtvlr
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PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:30 pm

Quote:
"We are reevaluating our route network to make sure that it is the best plan for us," said Christine DeZarn, vice president and chief marketing officer.

"Although we had envisioned an earlier startup, the process is taking longer than we anticipated and we are not ready at this time to talk about specific plans or dates, but we are moving forward," DeZarn said.

Hmm. Perhaps basing a carrier out of PHF may not be the best idea.

Full article: http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-N...ress-pushes-back-scheduled-launch/

[Edited 2012-07-19 13:31:44]
 
RL757PVD
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:34 pm

I always thought the idea of launching right after the busy summer season didnt make much sense.

Maybe start with PBI to PVD PIT PHF in early 2013 then ramp up the PHF/PIT focus in Spring/Sumemr 2013

(I just noticed that the main airports with the "P" named airline are all "P" airports, coincidence?)
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srbmod
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:46 pm

They probably didn't help their case by getting into trouble with the DOT while in the process of getting certified. It also sounds like they're having issues getting enough financing in place to satisfy the DOT and I guess that's one of the things holding them up in getting their operating certificate. The longer they delay the starting of operations, the longer the odds of them starting up service at all.

PHF does have potential even with FL leaving and ORF being the major airport for the region. Allegiant could potentially add service to their other Florida destinations and maybe even MYR. What about Spirit as a possible new airline at PHF? I know they've been focused on building up their DFW and LAS operations, but they have a/c with the legs that G4's MD-80 family a/c lack from PHF.
 
PHX787
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting srbmod (Reply 2):
They probably didn't help their case by getting into trouble with the DOT while in the process of getting certified. It also sounds like they're having issues getting enough financing in place to satisfy the DOT and I guess that's one of the things holding them up in getting their operating certificate. The longer they delay the starting of operations, the longer the odds of them starting up service at all.

That's what I was thinking. PHF + delays with the DOT and other assorted junk = maybe this won't happen.

I hope it happens though, but maybe this airline needs to reconsider where they operate from.
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RL757PVD
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
That's what I was thinking. PHF + delays with the DOT and other assorted junk = maybe this won't happen.

I hope it happens though, but maybe this airline needs to reconsider where they operate from

My guess is they like what they see in PIT that even thouh they might be based at PHF, the focus may quickly turn to PIT.
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catiii
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:10 pm

I do wonder how they're going to be able to make a go of it. VX is well capitalized at a major city with brand new aircraft and a unique onboard product and they're hemorrhaging. B6 was also well capitalized with brand new aircraft and a revolutionary onboard product at the time in what is probably one of the most desirable markets to be in. People wants to start up with old 737's at a secondary market. Maybe they can fill a niche, and I sure hope they do well because I think it is healthy for the industry, but I kind of wonder...
 
Italianflyer
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:48 am

This is the most realistic thing I have heard from this group since PE 2.0's inception.   

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
Maybe they can fill a niche, and I sure hope they do well because I think it is healthy for the industry, but I kind of wonder...

I hope some of the brain children behind this venture are studying the late Eastwind Airlines....TTN....what they did right and where they went wrong.
 
LAXintl
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:45 pm

Is anyone surprised ?

Even 2013 might not be doable.

Getting certified these days is a multi-year process (go ask California Pacific).

As far as specifics, the airline and DOT have been going back and forth clarifying basic information supplementing the initial March application. Most recently in June DOT received additional financial forecast, and shareholder information.
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N62NA
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:07 pm

From the article:

PeoplExpress did run afoul of the Tranportation Department's enforcement office in May when DOT claimed the carrier violated a ban on premature advertising by soliciting memberships for its travel club before it had received a certificate to fly.

This is absolutely nuts - the DOT is now deciding when soliciting memberships for a travel club is "premature" or not????

P.S. In perfect duplication and waste mode, I'm sure the FTC does exactly the same thing.
 
steeler83
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4):
My guess is they like what they see in PIT that even thouh they might be based at PHF, the focus may quickly turn to PIT.

PIT, to me, does seem to have a larger catchment area around it as opposed to PHF.

If you ask me, tho, I wish they'd stick with their model that included a business class. I know they're doing primarily point-to-point flying, or they plan on it, but wouldn't they benefit by banking at least some of those p2p flights for possible connections? Not everyone is going to be PIT or PHF-bound. PIT does have higher O&D than it had when it was a mega hub for US (not sure about O&D numbers for PHF tho), but I'd be willing to bet that they could serve even more pax if they could bank some flights instead of having just a slew of p2p flights running at random.

For the record, I'm not suggesting they have full-fledged hubs; I know banking all of your flights does have its logistical costs and what not that would seem unfeasible to any start-up. Suppose they could time a handful of their arrivals/departures that could provide some connection possibilities. Doesn't WN do that? I know they pretty much have 150 to 200 p2p flights out of their largest bases...
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Polot
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 8):
This is absolutely nuts - the DOT is now deciding when soliciting memberships for a travel club is "premature" or not????

You had to pay to be a member of its travel club. So PE was basically duping money out of idiots when they technically have no clue if (or when) they will ever get certified to fly.
 
LAXintl
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:42 pm

Here is the thread about the travel club fine.
DOT Fines People Express - Before They Even Fly! (by LAXintl May 10 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Simply put, People Express holds no economic authority, and as such may not engage in advertising or make promises regarding any future travel.
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N62NA
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting poLOT (Reply 10):
You had to pay to be a member of its travel club. So PE was basically duping money out of idiots when they technically have no clue if (or when) they will ever get certified to fly.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):

Simply put, People Express holds no economic authority, and as such may not engage in advertising or make promises regarding any future travel.

Thanks, I missed that. But the DOT???? Then what is the FTC there for???
 
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United_fan
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:05 pm

It also states they are going to use ex-QF 734's. Hasn't QF had a bunch of trouble with them,that's why they're retiring them.
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KDAYflyer
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:39 pm

To me this sounds like another Skybus: Lousy catchment area, lack of connecting flight options, poorly financed, "underserved destinations", etc. I don't think it is ever going to see the light of day.
 
canyonblue17
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
Maybe start with PBI to PVD PIT PHF in early 2013 then ramp up the PHF/PIT focus in Spring/Sumemr 2013



Southwest is scheduled to start PBI-PVD and PBI-PIT nonstop in February 2013. Don't know how well a start-up would fare again WN.
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September11
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:08 pm

Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 14):

To me this sounds like another Skybus: Lousy catchment area, lack of connecting flight options, poorly financed, "underserved destinations", etc. I don't think it is ever going to see the light of day.


or Hooters Air


My idea for PeoplExpress: start w/ one aircraft and 2 cities (preferably 2 major airports) - one daily round trip flight. Stick with it (no growth) for at least 2 years. Earn a reputation first. That is my best idea for start-ups this decade.
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PHX787
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:19 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 16):
My idea for PeoplExpress: start w/ one aircraft and 2 cities (preferably 2 major airports) - one daily round trip flight. Stick with it (no growth) for at least 2 years. Earn a reputation first. That is my best idea for start-ups this decade.

Sounds like my idea-
LAX-CVG-NYC on a couple of 767s.
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Polot
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 16):
My idea for PeoplExpress: start w/ one aircraft and 2 cities (preferably 2 major airports) - one daily round trip flight. Stick with it (no growth) for at least 2 years. Earn a reputation first. That is my best idea for start-ups this decade.

It is also the best way to go out of business this decade. By only flying one route you are making it incredibly easy for competitors to push you out. With one aircraft you are screwed if it has a MX issue. With one daily roundtrip you are again making it easy for competitors to push you out and depending on the distance between the two cities you are getting horrible aircraft utilization.

You can't earn a reputation if you are around for less than a month.
 
September11
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 17):

LAX-CVG-NYC 767s ?

I like your idea. I'd drop CVG. Just one 763. LAX-JFK-LAX. For 2 years and feel.

JFK to LAX on PeoplExpress 767 sounds ideal
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PHX787
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 19):
I like your idea. I'd drop CVG. Just one 763. LAX-JFK-LAX. For 2 years and feel.

Maybe just a 757/737 or something like that, but this is just something out of CVG (recall I flame about them a lot)

Quoting September11 (Reply 19):
JFK to LAX on PeoplExpress 767 sounds ideal

That does sound ideal too.
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EA CO AS
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:53 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
PHF + delays with the DOT and other assorted junk = maybe this won't happen.

MAYBE this won't happen?   

I'm guessing this one never gets one bird aloft. Ever.
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PHX787
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:15 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 21):
MAYBE this won't happen?

I think the stupidest part of this whole plan is PHF. I mean what are they going to with that?!
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wedgetail737
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 13):
It also states they are going to use ex-QF 734's. Hasn't QF had a bunch of trouble with them,that's why they're retiring them.

QF is getting rid of their 734's because they're getting old. The QF 734's are being replaced by 738's and Jetstar Airbus aircraft.
 
747400sp
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
I think the stupidest part of this whole plan is PHF. I mean what are they going to with that?!

But PHF need another big airline, since Air Tran merge with Southwest and left PHF.
 
xjramper
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:24 pm

Right now, it s really a catch 22 for a start up airline. With an economy as shaky as it is now, the cost of fuel, and an industry that is extremely volitaile and ever changing creates an unbelievably shaky ground to start up on. Without the capital to purchase new aircraft and having to order older/aging aircraft spikes mx costs. Airport fees (gate, ticketcounter, baggage rental space costs), landing fees, fuel prices, catering, employee pay, healthcare, insurance, unforseen costs, etc add up real quickly. If PHF is the best economic choice for long term financial gain, that's probably why they are looking there.

Granted they could find a niche market and capiltalize on those travelers, but as mature (and still ever changing) as the US market is, any start up is going to be behind the 8-ball from the start. I am curious as to how this pans out and how the company leaders take the concept and ultimately the airline forward.
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CIDFlyer
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 24):

But PHF need another big airline, since Air Tran merge with Southwest and left PHF.

PHF would be better off trying to get Frontier expand, or lure Spirit or Jet Blue to counterpart SWA at ORF. Go after an established carrier than try to get a startup based at your airport. The chances of success would be much greater, otherwise you will end up like another CMH with the Skybus debacle.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:25 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 26):
PHF would be better off trying to get Frontier expand, or lure Spirit or Jet Blue to counterpart SWA at ORF. Go after an established carrier than try to get a startup based at your airport. The chances of success would be much greater, otherwise you will end up like another CMH with the Skybus debacle.

You have to understand that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for PHF. Even if you have doubt, it's still something you should support and embrace. If it works out, you hit the jackpot. If not, F9 and B6 will still exist..and if not them someone else.
 
steeler83
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 15):
Southwest is scheduled to start PBI-PVD and PBI-PIT nonstop in February 2013. Don't know how well a start-up would fare again WN.

Yeah, as seasonal service, tho.

I could see PIT working tho. From an operational/competition standpoint, It's no longer a major connecting hub but it still serves a large catchment area. Now, from an economical/financial standpoint, I view it as iffy. Even though the ACAA is working with this airline, I still think the fees at PIT will prove uneconomical. Unfortunately, we're looking at those fees sticking around for perhaps another five years until the airport debt goes away...

For anyone wanting to jump on this saying, "if PIT has so much demand, then someone would have jumped at it already." Well, someone did, and that someone was Southwest. A few years ago, there was discussion about Kelly wanting to operate upwards of 60 to 70 daily departures to more than a dozen new markets out of PIT. Some time later, Penrod thought it was a good idea to hike up the landing and terminal lease fees substantially, thus ending such talk of such service...
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AirCalSNA
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:26 am

Maybe they can merge with California Pacific and get a group discount on their fines ....
 
PHX787
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 24):
But PHF need another big airline, since Air Tran merge with Southwest and left PHF.

Yet another useless result of a merger that wasn't needed, but that's for another thread.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 26):

PHF would be better off trying to get Frontier expand, or lure Spirit or Jet Blue to counterpart SWA at ORF.

  
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RL757PVD
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RE: PeoplExpress Pushes Launch Date To 2013

Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 15):
Southwest is scheduled to start PBI-PVD and PBI-PIT nonstop in February 2013. Don't know how well a start-up would fare again WN.

I think thats a sign that WN is taking them at least semi-seriously, even though on a seasonal basis those flights are safe-bets.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!