VC10er
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Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:58 pm

Yesterday I flew from LGA to RIC to EWR, down on a Delta E145, up on a renovated Unitef E145. All 3 airports had uncountable E135/145's across a number of carriers. Newark looked like the old Embraer 145 factory in Sao Jose dos Campos there were so many. (in fact how many have been built?) they are built like Mac trucks I'm told, so assumably they have a long life in them.

But have they been designed to live as a pax RJ's until they just grow too old then get junked? Or has anyone seen a cargo life for them? I would assume not, otherwise I think I would have seen some working as cargo planes already.

Or be refitted as the military version?

Any facts or conjecture?
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oneskyjet
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:14 pm

with fuel over $80 / barrel, they just don't work
 
PDPsol
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Or be refitted as the military version?

Well, this is certainly an interesting idea, as there are over 900 ERJ examples around the planet and Embraer has already developed several military versions of the platform.

Perhaps the most viable option would be a full re fit as a VIP transport model. Embraer already offers this as the C-99A. Acquiring multiple examples from operators, especially the high volume carriers, should be a reasonable exercise.

Embraer could even designate a highly reputable third-party MRO to carry out the re fit to its specifications. I can only imagine this would be a much more economical option for governments versus a Gulfstream, a Dassault, etc. etc.

There will be plenty of these ERJs to go around in the near future...
 
srbmod
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Or has anyone seen a cargo life for them? I would assume not, otherwise I think I would have seen some working as cargo planes already.

While there have been some CRJs converted into cargo a/c, the market may not really be there for freighter versions of the ERJs and the CRJs even with the sheer number of them out there and potentially being retired in the next 5-10 years or so. This niche is fairly well-covered by conversions (or new build) turboprop freighters like the ATR-42/72, the Dash 8, and the ATP.

I think that as airlines retire their smaller regional jets like the ERJs, you will see some of them sold to be converted into private/business jets, as the costs to acquire and retrofit the cabin would be much cheaper than a new-built Legacy 600/650. Some could be converted for military use and military training use.
 
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Acey559
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:56 pm

A number of ours have gone to Embraer and have been refurbished as Legacy biz jets, although that's not a huge market by any means. It's a decent airplane but we fly them hard and once they reach their cycle limit they're toast.
 
flightsimer
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:52 pm

The one thing that has always shocked me was that no 145 based legacy has been built and none have been converted that I know of. It seems like it would be the perfect aircraft.

I wonder about water bombers though. Could a 145 based bomber work? It should be small enough to get into smaller community airports... But could the airframe support it?

Hopefully they will find second a life in them. I think the ERJ is the sexiest RJ and business jet made.
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VC10er
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 5):

I have been in one new build Legacy at Embraer. We had to wear special slippers and hair nets to go inside. It was a bit gaudy for my taste, but the platform makes a sweet private jet that is sturdy as a Mac truck. It was going to the owner the next day in Saudi. There are a small number of Legacy new builds. I often see one or two in Geneva!
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
Salukipilot
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:46 pm

They just plain burn too much for how many PAX they carry.
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EMBQA
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 4):

No airliner has ever been converted into a Legacy. The cost to do so would be astronomical. The closest they have come was converting 2 Embraer E135 16 passenger Shuttles into E135 37 passenger airliners...and later, one the other way
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:29 pm

I think it will fit into a similar genre of the A380. Lemme finish!   I think you'll still see a trickle of orders / needs for longer, thinner routes to feed hubs. Ones that are too long for turboprops. Other than that, yea, I think the 50 seaters are on thier fourteenth and a half minute of fame.
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EXMEMWIDGET
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting Reply 1):
with fuel over $80 / barrel, they just don't work

Plus the fact that a high number of RJ flights are operated on very short flights where the aircraft doesn't have enough time to reach the higher altitudes where they are the most fuel efficient.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting EXMEMWIDGET (Reply 10):
Plus the fact that a high number of RJ flights are operated on very short flights where the aircraft doesn't have enough time to reach the higher altitudes where they are the most fuel efficient.

So there's probably a niche market for those aircraft in airlines which would like to fly them distances up to 70-80% of its maximum range?
Pretty sure there are passengers out there who would tolerate 4+ hours on one of those aircraft if given 34" pitch between rows.
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PDPsol
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
No airliner has ever been converted into a Legacy. The cost to do so would be astronomical.

Really? What about a military re fit and conversion to a VIP carrier? Surely, this would be less expensive than ordering a new C-99A? Couldn't Embraer subcontract a very reputable third party MRO to perform the re fit to its standards and market the aircraft to governments? There is surely a big market for this type of aircraft.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Will The Embraer 135/145 Have A Second Life?

Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 12):

Sure... with millions-millions of dollars you can do anything. The cost and labor to go from a 37 passenger E135 to a 16 passenger E135 Shuttle is not 'that' bad though extensive modification to the floor and ceiling structure are required To go from a E135..any E135 to a Legacy the cost would be astronomical. Though based off an E135 fuselage, that where it ends. Different fuel systems, different cabin structure....heck different everything.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"