commavia
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AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:44 pm

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3560

Premium transcons (JFK-LAX/SFO) will get 3-class A321s (F10J20W36Y36) beginning next winter.

All 737s/A319s/A321s will get PTVs at every seat.

Major news, and several major positive steps for AA ...

[Edited 2012-07-23 06:56:39]
 
RL757PVD
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:46 pm

10 seats of lie-flat for domestic is probably one of the dumbest things I have heard recently...
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
commavia
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:49 pm

Very interesting that they decided to retain 3-class on the transcons - wasn't sure if that would stay - and that the F cabin will stay basically the same size as what they have now, while Business will shrink (thought it would be the other way around). Looks like AA's A321s will be configured roughly similar to United's p.s. 757s are/were - except it will have both the Main Cabin Extra and regular Coach, whereas United's p.s. 757s were only Economy Plus.
 
CRJ900
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:51 pm

Only 102 seats on these A321s (10F+20J+36Y+ +36Y). Wonder if they'll make it without fuel stops  
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
Josh32121
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:54 pm

So it appears there will be 10 first class in 1-1 configuration, 20 business class in 2-2 configuration, 36 Main Cabin Extra, and 36 Main Cabin in 3-3 configuration. 102 seats? On an A321? That seems ludicrous. How many seats are on UA's transcon 757's?

I take every press release from American with a wheelbarrow of salt until their exit plan from bankruptcy and potential merger with US are dealt with. They're not exactly in the driver's seat right now; their creditors and unions are.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:57 pm

Correction to the OPer. The correct config is F10C20Y72 of which 36 will be “main cabin extra” with a bit more legroom.


But for those that doubled AA would never go narrowbody on its premium transcons, guess this finally blows that myth up.
Good move imo, as the 762's are way past their prime, and the economics of the narrowbody will be much much better.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
10 seats of lie-flat for domestic is probably one of the dumbest things I have heard recently...

Well UA is also putting almost 30 lie-flats on its p.s. remodel.   
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JAAlbert
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:57 pm

I don't know the cabin size of a 321, but it seems with all those premium seats, the economy cabin will be rather small, won't it?
 
lhcvg
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:59 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 4):
So it appears there will be 10 first class in 1-1 configuration, 20 business class in 2-2 configuration, 36 Main Cabin Extra, and 36 Main Cabin in 3-3 configuration. 102 seats? On an A321? That seems ludicrous. How many seats are on UA's transcon 757's?

According to .bomb, the current 3-class PS planes are 108 seats, so right about the same, but arranged differently with +2 F, +4 J, and all of Y is E+. However, the PS fleet is going to get refitted into a BF, E+, and standard Y config that I believe will be somewhere around 120 seats. That should make for some interesting competition to see whose model prevails.
 
tommy767
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:04 pm

I'll be the first to chime in stating that this is a very ground breaking move.

This step should make UA ponder if they should really get rid of the 3 class set up on JFK-SFO/LAX. AA will be the only player on these routes in a 3 class setup.

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
All 737s/A319s/A321s will get PTVs at every seat.

Good! Wonder if the existing 738s will get PTVs as well. 763s? 757?

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 3):
Only 102 seats on these A321s (10F+20J+36Y+ +36Y). Wonder if they'll make it without fuel stops

Shouldn't be an issue with 102 seats on board.
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commavia
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:04 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Correction to the OPer. The correct config is F10C20Y72 of which 36 will be “main cabin extra” with a bit more legroom.

Already corrected.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
But for those that doubled AA would never go narrowbody on its premium transcons, guess this finally blows that myth up.
Good move imo, as the 762's are way past their prime, and the economics of the narrowbody will be much much better.

Agree. Smart move - those 762s are no longer economically viable aircraft.

I am not too terribly surprised AA is keeping a 3-class config on these premium transcon markets, but I am surprised F is staying the same size and C is shrinking - that sort of defies the direction everything in the industry has been going for years. Perhaps AA knows something we don't - although net-net, the premium seats per plane will be coming down by 25% - significant.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 6):
I don't know the cabin size of a 321, but it seems with all those premium seats, the economy cabin will be rather small, won't it?

That's the point - that is the segment of the market AA has less desire to compete in. That being said, this is going to lead, net-net, to a massive reduction in capacity in these markets, so I would not be too totally shocked if we saw a frequency increase in these two markets.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 7):
According to .bomb, the current 3-class PS planes are 108 seats, so right about the same, but arranged differently with +2 F, +4 J, and all of Y is E+. However, the PS fleet is going to get refitted into a BF, E+, and standard Y config that I believe will be somewhere around 120 seats. That should make for some interesting competition to see whose model prevails.

Agree. The cabin AA is describing sounds quite nice - I'm sure it will be popular. The question is if they can make money with that many premium seats.
 
commavia
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 8):
Good! Wonder if the existing 738s will get PTVs as well. 763s? 757?

On second reading, my OP may be incorrect. All new deliveries of 737s and A320-family jets starting at a certain point next year will have PTVs - it wasn't clear to me from the PR whether existing 737s will be retrofitted (although that would seem like a fairly substantial product discontinuity across the same fleet).

As for the 757s - doubt they'll get anything at this point since they are rapidly on their way out. As for the 767s - the ones sticking around a while longer may get them at some point, but I don't think AA has indicated as much officially, unfortunately. The 767s leaving the fleet are unlikely to get any major upgrades at this point.
 
atrude777
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:11 pm

I am very excited at the news and announcement AA has released today. It looks sharp and exciting and the employees should be very excited about this!

I think AA is really gonna change things, especially starting with the going from wide bodies down to narrow bodies.

Anyone notice how the livery is non existent in the video? Makes me wonder...food for thought!

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...nYfVGo3AtCewOw&bctid=1748546523001

Alex
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FoxBravo
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:12 pm

There are photos here: http://www.aa.com/i18n/urls/newplane...Location=DirectURL&title=newplanes

The first class seats look virtually the same as AA's new business class seats for the 777-300ERs, and the business class seats look very much like the UA (ex-CO) lie-flat seats. Both are very nice products, so these A321s should be quite comfortable in the premium cabins.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
10 seats of lie-flat for domestic is probably one of the dumbest things I have heard recently...

CO/UA flies their international 752s with 16 lie-flat seats on EWR-MIA / MIA-EWR.

They're actually quite comfy in chaise-position with a novel and a beverage of choice.
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
10 seats of lie-flat for domestic is probably one of the dumbest things I have heard recently...

Not so much if you regularly sell them...

I believe SAG is not quite as generous with First Class travel as they used to be, but I expect a fair bit of the F cabin on those two routes for both UA and AA go out on a paid fare, which is why both continue to offer a higher-level First Class product on them.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 3):
Only 102 seats on these A321s (10F+20J+36Y+ +36Y). Wonder if they'll make it without fuel stops

Why would they stop for fuel ? Usairways has a well documented fuel stop history its PHL to LAX flights but they seat 16 F and 167 Y. AT 102 people AA has left 80 passengers behind which if we assume 200 pounds per is 16,000 pounds. Since AA has a lower payload made up by higher paying F, J and Y+ passengers they should get from JFK to LAX as they say in Jamaica " NO PROBLEM".
 
emirates202
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:15 pm

Am I the only one that thinks the premium cabin aisles look really cramped? I mean seriously? Lie flats on A321's? It's a great idea and concept, but it looks very tight and cramped.
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tommy767
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:17 pm

Great video! AA is making moves. They've been in a deep sleep for over 10 years. I feel like it's the early 90s again  
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
united319
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:19 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 4):
How many seats are on UA's transcon 757's?

12F+26J+72W is the current config on the 57P aircraft.
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lhcvg
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:22 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
Agree. The cabin AA is describing sounds quite nice - I'm sure it will be popular. The question is if they can make money with that many premium seats.

Absolutely. However, that route is one where they can actually make it work. As Stitch notes:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
Not so much if you regularly sell them...

I believe SAG is not quite as generous with First Class travel as they used to be, but I expect a fair bit of the F cabin on those two routes for both UA and AA go out on a paid fare, which is why both continue to offer a higher-level First Class product on them.

The config is probably the result of some data AA has showing that they can move the F (as is often discussed the media and film biz demand for paid F on this route is actually reasonably solid). So if they do in fact sell those at "retail" rates (i.e., not just TOD upgrades) the numbers should work in terms of having F at the expense of J space.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:25 pm

Quoting emirates202 (Reply 16):
Am I the only one that thinks the premium cabin aisles look really cramped? I mean seriously? Lie flats on A321's? It's a great idea and concept, but it looks very tight and cramped.

A narrowbody cabin is never going to look like a widebody, but the personal space in first appears comparable to what you'd get on AA's new 77Ws (or on CX for that matter), and in business it looks similar to UA's 757s which are very comfortable even across the Atlantic. Once you're sitting/lying down, the size of the rest of the cabin doesn't really matter much--in fact, in my experience the service can be better in a smaller cabin.

CO (now UA) has had lie-flats on 757s, which are similar in size to A321s, for years. In fact, BA is also rolling out lie-flats (albeit a different design, more like Swiss's A330s or Delta's 764s) on its ex-BMI A321s for its longer flights to the Middle East. So there's nothing crazy about the concept.
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BMI727
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:26 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
10 seats of lie-flat for domestic is probably one of the dumbest things I have heard recently...

Passengers on that route are willing to pay for it. Plus lower density will ensure that the A321 can make it even on the worst weather days, although the seats themselves will eat up some of the weight reduction.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
blink182
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:26 pm

Anybody else notice that the 77E economy cabin was absent from the video?    All of these narrowbody upgrades will be nice, especially in Y, though AA clearly made that decision in order to keep up with competitors. Yes, AA likes the premium pax, but its nice to see them finally add rather than subtract from Y for once. Soft product needs substantial upgrades, unfortunately, and that's not quite as simple as placing a big order for seats.

I thought the blank fuselage in 77E announcement a few months ago was a fun marketing ploy, but given that this silver has once again been used, I too wonder whether these future aircraft and the Airbuses will wear a different scheme.
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MaverickM11
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:30 pm

Well there goes VX last advantage over AA...

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 20):
CO (now UA) has had lie-flats on 757s, which are similar in size to A321s

The seats in fact look identical; are they the same?
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infinit
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:30 pm

I hope to try AA's transcontinental F product when I'm in SFO next year  

Maybe I'm missing something here but why do American carriers have as much as 12 flights daily on many demestic routes using narrow bodies like A320s? Why not have 6 flights on 777 instead? Is a flight every 45 minutes instead of every 2 hours really needed?
 
fun2fly
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:36 pm

Sure looks like AA will have a competitive product. Good to see the US industry investing in a/c improvements and differentiating themselves.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
Very interesting that they decided to retain 3-class on the transcons - wasn't sure if that would stay

AA has to if they want SAG and Hollywood traffic. VX has made some inroads against UA and AA on JFK-LAX with Hollywood traffic. Jetblue is essentially disqualified from carrying SAG traffic because SAG rules require F class if actors are going to film (not sure about appearences on Letterman or Kelly etc). Delta I think would be allowed so long as their premium cabin is called F.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
10 seats of lie-flat for domestic is probably one of the dumbest things I have heard recently...

Doesnt UA have 12?

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 4):
How many seats are on UA's transcon 757's?

108-112 i think, Even with 112, a 757 with 112 will have a higher CASM than a A321 with 102.
 
william
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:39 pm

Notice in the video the aircraft shown has

1. a chrome or metallic finish

2. no liververy........not even the present one.

A new livery must be on the way.
 
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ManuCH
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 8):
I'll be the first to chime in stating that this is a very ground breaking move.

I agree that this is actually a great move. As a European traveler who has experienced US transcon flights, I can say that I've been a bit disappointed so far. Those flights are almost the same duration like an average TATL flight from the east coast to Europe, but the service quality is not even remotely comparable.

Kudos to AA for bringing such a premium product to the market! I'm sure they will sell a lot. Especially the red eyes are a pain to endure, and lie flats are a great thing to have. If the price is decent, I'd get it anytime!
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting commavia (Thread starter):
Premium transcons (JFK-LAX/SFO) will get 3-class A321s (F10J20W36Y36) beginning next winter.

Beginning in Nov 2013. Next winter is 2012/2013. Next winter is the same as this winter.
 
EricR
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
but I am surprised F is staying the same size and C is shrinking - that sort of defies the direction everything in the industry has been going for years. Perhaps AA knows something we don't


An attempt to stop the loss of premium passengers to other carriers with better premium products. It is odd timing to offer such a premium heavy configuration in an environment where premium travel is under pressure. I kind of question this decision. I guess they could always reduce F in the future if demand is not there for paying passengers.

It is a very nice product though.
 
commavia
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 30):
An attempt to stop the loss of premium passengers to other carriers with better premium products. It is odd timing to offer such a premium heavy configuration in an environment where premium travel is under pressure. I kind of question this decision. I guess they could always reduce F in the future if demand is not there for paying passengers.

Well - again, we have to separate "premium" from First. This will actually mean a net reduction of 25% of premium seats per flight, it's just that that entire reduction will come - surprisingly - in C, not F. But again - perhaps AA knows something we don't about their ability to upsell some current C passengers into F. This does look like a great product, so that should help.
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 24):
Maybe I'm missing something here but why do American carriers have as much as 12 flights daily on many demestic routes using narrow bodies like A320s? Why not have 6 flights on 777 instead? Is a flight every 45 minutes instead of every 2 hours really needed?

Yes. Schedule flexibility is important on these routes due to many of the people taking these flights not working a set schedule (meetings, film/tv shoots, etc.).
 
LAXintl
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 7):
However, the PS fleet is going to get refitted into a BF, E+, and standard Y config that I believe will be somewhere around 120 seats.

Future p.s config will be 26C with lie flat international config seats, 70Y+ and 44 regular Y.

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
but I am surprised F is staying the same size and C is shrinking

I think choice of 10 for F class is simply due physics. Its the number of seats that fit between door 1 and door 2 on the A321.

For C class, yes quite a reduction. I guess the AAdvantage folks can forget freebie upgrades.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 12):
and the business class seats look very much like the UA (ex-CO) lie-flat seats.

Because it is essentially the same seat. Update B/E Diamond.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
I believe SAG is not quite as generous with First Class travel as they used to be,
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 26):
AA has to if they want SAG and Hollywood traffic.

Hollywood contracts no longer require premium F class. The new labor agreements from last year provide for Biz class, or regular domestic F.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 24):
Is a flight every 45 minutes instead of every 2 hours really needed?

It's not needed, it's preferred. People, particularly on transcons like these, would much rather have the freedom of choice, and by flying more frequencies with smaller aircraft, they can provide more options at about the same (or even less) cost. A 777 is much more expensive to operate than an A321.

Kudos to AA for this. Interesting that they're using their new international J as the Flagship F. The J looks like a totally new product.

Cheers,
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Cheers,
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lhcvg
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 7):
However, the PS fleet is going to get refitted into a BF, E+, and standard Y config that I believe will be somewhere around 120 seats.

Future p.s config will be 26C with lie flat international config seats, 70Y+ and 44 regular Y.

Thanks LAX!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
I guess the AAdvantage folks can forget freebie upgrades.

That's what I assumed the main rationale was - they can sell F via their contracts, but most of J goes to upgrades so like int'l F it's the one that gets squeezed.
 
milemaster
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:18 pm

Sounds to me like the return of the Luxury Liner.
 
co38
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 3):
Only 102 seats on these A321s (10F+20J+36Y+ +36Y). Wonder if they'll make it without fuel stops  
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
Why would they stop for fuel ? Usairways has a well documented fuel stop history its PHL to LAX flights but they seat 16 F and 167 Y. AT 102 people AA has left 80 passengers behind which if we assume 200 pounds per is 16,000 pounds. Since AA has a lower payload made up by higher paying F, J and Y+ passengers they should get from JFK to LAX as they say in Jamaica " NO PROBLEM".

Im pretty sure CRJ900 was being sarcastic in his remark  

How many of their 321s will be configured for coast to coast?
 
ba319-131
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:56 pm

Well this looks like a great product, well done AA!

I can't wait to see the fully finished product!
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
blink182
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:58 pm

With such a premium-heavy configuration and light pax load, is there a chance that the transcon 321s could be used on extra frequencies on MIA-Brazil or BOS/JFK-LHR?
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
ckfred
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:59 pm

One question about Main Cabin Extra. Will they put that product in the MD-80s and 757s. Granted, both fleets are on their way out. But, I would expect both types to still be flying 3 years from now. Would be irritating, if you were someone willing to spend extra for extra legroom, or had elite status, and you found yourself frequently on MD-80s and 757s with the same seating 2 or 3 years from now that exists today.
 
AA94
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 10):
On second reading, my OP may be incorrect. All new deliveries of 737s and A320-family jets starting at a certain point next year will have PTVs - it wasn't clear to me from the PR whether existing 737s will be retrofitted (although that would seem like a fairly substantial product discontinuity across the same fleet).

I had the same question. The wording from the PR makes it seem like only newly-delivered aircraft beginning with the A319s in July '13 will have the enhancements, but that's just my interpretation.

Quoting EricR (Reply 30):
An attempt to stop the loss of premium passengers to other carriers with better premium products. It is odd timing to offer such a premium heavy configuration in an environment where premium travel is under pressure. I kind of question this decision. I guess they could always reduce F in the future if demand is not there for paying passengers.

While generally the market is shifting with a loss of premium pax, the AA Flagship routes of JFK-LAX/SFO are routes that can sustain this kind of paid premium traffic. With UA shifting it's PS 752s to a two-class config, any celebrity or wealthy pax who want the level of service that F provides will have to choose AA, as they'll be the only ones left offering that product.

Quoting co38 (Reply 37):
How many of their 321s will be configured for coast to coast?

No word on that in the PR, but they currently have 15 762s configured for the three-class transcon service.

Quick question for anyone who knows: can the A321s be boarded through the 2L door?

Cheers,

AA94
If you can't take the heat, you best get out of the kitchen
 
tommy767
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:03 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 40):
One question about Main Cabin Extra. Will they put that product in the MD-80s and 757s. Granted, both fleets are on their way out. But, I would expect both types to still be flying 3 years from now. Would be irritating, if you were someone willing to spend extra for extra legroom, or had elite status, and you found yourself frequently on MD-80s and 757s with the same seating 2 or 3 years from now that exists today.

I would guess some, but not very many S80s.

The 757s definitely. They still play a viable role in the network and will likely be concentrated out of MIA heavily with all the new deliveries (south america)
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FoxBravo
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):

The seats in fact look identical; are they the same?

According to LAXIntl in a later post, yes.

Quoting AA94 (Reply 41):
Quick question for anyone who knows: can the A321s be boarded through the 2L door?

My recollection from previous threads is that it's possible, but rarely done because of the proximity of the engine nacelles. Will be interesting to see if AA does it.
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NorthstarBoy
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:20 pm

After comparing the capacity of the 762 to the low density A321 AA is proposing, it appears they're giving up more than a thousand seats a day in capacity spread across 15 frames. The specific capacity difference between the 762 and A321 is 68 seats. I'd be curious how they're going to recoup that capacity. By adding more frequencies? Also with a 10 seat net reduction in Business class per flight, they're going to have alot of pissed off high end customers who often have to fly AA due to substantial corporate discounts and who often are not allowed to fly first but who won't fly coach.

Personally, I think AA should have gone the other way, and refit some of the 763s to offer Flagship transcon service.

IMO AA is just joining the pack, not trying to stay out in front, and they'll have alot of unhappy campers as a result.

IMO, again, it'll only be a matter of time before the lack of business class capacity pisses off someone high enough on the food chain that AA will end up either losing a corporate contract or else have to come back and offer an even more substantial discount to compensate those high value business travelers for the loss of a "guaranteed" business class seat.
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Someone83
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:25 pm

So does this mean they might soon firm up their Airbus order?
 
warren747sp
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:28 pm

Where do they plan to land and refuel during the winter like numerous Jet Blue planes westbound?
747SP
 
laca773
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting emirates202 (Reply 16):
Am I the only one that thinks the premium cabin aisles look really cramped? I mean seriously? Lie flats on A321's? It's a great idea and concept, but it looks very tight and cramped.

What? These are the new economics of flying trips of 4-6 hours. BA is downgauging their mid-hauls to A321s as well with a similar J cabin. Obviously it's something we'd never see EK do, emirates202.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 26):
AA has to if they want SAG and Hollywood traffic. VX has made some inroads against UA and AA on JFK-LAX with Hollywood traffic. Jetblue is essentially disqualified from carrying SAG traffic because SAG rules require F class if actors are going to film (not sure about appearences on Letterman or Kelly etc). Delta I think would be allowed so long as their premium cabin is called F.


SAG, etc.., will get their Biz seats, and if available, perhaps they will pay the difference, to sit in P, though I'm sure many wouldn't as they like to be comp'd for just about everything they receive or own.
It will be interesting to see how many pitch fits when they find out their 9am to JFK or LAX/SFO is full due to a/c downgauging and modernization.

Kudos, to AA! This is a sign of taking things in the right direction.
 
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Stitch
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 44):
After comparing the capacity of the 762 to the low density A321 AA is proposing, it appears they're giving up more than a thousand seats a day in capacity spread across 15 frames.

Reducing capacity is a way to increase RASM. And I expect the A321-200 crushes the 767-300ER on trip costs in a transcon mission.



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 44):
IMO, again, it'll only be a matter of time before the lack of business class capacity pisses off someone high enough on the food chain that AA will end up either losing a corporate contract or else have to come back and offer an even more substantial discount to compensate those high value business travelers for the loss of a "guaranteed" business class seat.

I am quite confident that the Business Class cabin is not going out at 100% load factor on a Business Class fare. A fair bit of that cabin is probably upgrades from Economy.

Therefore, AA's Inventory Management department can hold back Business Class seats until just before departure to ensure that if a walk-up Business Class fare is present, they will be accommodated with a Business Class seat. Any seats unsold can then be released for upgrade at the gate.
 
flyby519
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RE: AA: 3-class A321s On JFK-LAX/SFO, PTVs

Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting warren747sp (Reply 46):
Where do they plan to land and refuel during the winter like numerous Jet Blue planes westbound?

With only 102 pax this shouldnt be an issue
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