SCL767
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Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:35 pm

LATAM Airlines Group's general manager for Europe, Francisco Vidal, recently stated that the company plans to launch routes to four new destinations in Europe with-in the next two years. LATAM views Europe as being a "strategic" market and currently serves five destinations in Europe: CDG, FRA, LHR, MAD, and MXP.

Quote:
El gerente general para Europa de LATAM Airlines Group, Francisco Vidal, ha señalado que la compañía prevé operar cuatro nuevos destinos europeos en los próximos dos años, unas rutas que se sumarían a las cinco que ya posee en el Viejo Continente. El grupo, resultante de la fusión de la aerolínea chilena LAN con la brasileña TAM, contempla Europa como un mercado "estratégico" en el que prevé desarrollarse, gracias a su "alta especialización" en la unión entre Latinoamérica con España, Francia, Alemania, Italia y Reino Unido.
LATAM prevé operar cuatro nuevos destinos europeos en los próximos dos años

Recently, LAN expressed an interest in opening routes to BCN and FCO. What other destinations in Europe could be of interest to LATAM...
 
LIPZ
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:48 pm

my guess

Paris
London
Madrid
Milan
Frankfurt
Rome
Barcelona
Zurich
Amsterdam
 
rutankrd
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:49 pm

just a guess i would consider Copenhagen Amsterdam and Lisbon as missing links for LATAM
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:52 pm

I would suggest LIS, OPO, BCN, FCO and BER.


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Polot
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:54 pm

I'm kind of surprised that TAM doesn't already serve LIS.
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:55 pm

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 1):

Paris
London
Madrid
Milan
Frankfurt

The article mentions 4 new destinations in Europe. LATAM currently serves all the destinations listed above.

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 1):

Rome
Barcelona

These two destinations have been mentioned several times...
 
LIPZ
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:00 pm

Should all the new European destinations be out of SCL and/or GRU?
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:09 pm

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 6):
Should all the new European destinations be out of SCL and/or GRU?

It could be out of any of LATAM's primary hubs: BOG, BSB, GIG, GRU, LIM, and SCL. However, LATAM's Chairman, Mauricio Rolim Amaro, recently stated in the Chilean press that new routes from SCL, GIG and GRU to Europe are very much on the agenda...
 
LIPZ
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:16 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
It could be out of any of LATAM's primary hubs: BOG, BSB, GIG, GRU, LIM, and SCL. However, LATAM's Chairman, Mauricio Rolim Amaro, recently stated in the Chilean press that new routes from SCL, GIG and GRU to Europe are very much on the agenda...

Thanks for sharing the info.

I guess that apart from MAD (that will be likely linked to many - if not all - of new LATAM's hubs), some airports would get 1 link (GRU or SCL), some 2 routes (GRU & GIG or GRU & SCL), some 3 routes (GRU & GIG & SCL).

I think BOG, LIM will see direct service to Europe to MAD only for a long time.
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:19 pm

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 8):
Thanks for sharing the info.

LAN could also fly between Chile and Europe via points in Brazil.

Mr. Vidal states that LATAM could open four new destinations in Europe with-in the next two years. He also reiterates that LATAM does not view Iberia as a "competitor", but as a "partner"; and that LATAM could strengthen ties not only with Iberia, but with British Airways as well. He also reveals that LAN will be the first airline to operate the Boeing 787 Dreamliner into Madrid.

Quote:
Latam Airlines Group, resultante de la fusión entre la brasileña TAM y la chilena LAN, tiene previsto añadir en los próximos dos años cuatro destinos europeos a los cinco a los que vuela en la actualidad, ha anunciado hoy el nuevo gerente general para Europa del grupo, Francisco Vidal...Al ser preguntado si sería más lógico optar por Star Alliance, toda vez que Iberia, líder del mercado entre Europa y Latinoamérica, forma parte de Oneworld, Vidal ha asegurado que Iberia "no es competidor" de Latam, sino "socio" suyo. "Dentro de las decisiones futuras, obviamente existe la posibilidad de intensificar la relación con Iberia si Latam permanece en Oneworld, obviamente la oportunidad de intensificar la relación con Iberia es grande, y con British Airways también", ha señalado.
Latam Airlines prevé añadir cuatro destinos en Europa a los cinco que tiene actualmente

[Edited 2012-07-24 08:16:57]
 
lisbonbearuk
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:41 pm

LIS will surely depend on two things 1) who buys TAP and 2) which alliances the 'new' TAP and LATAM decide to be members of.
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting lisbonbearuk (Reply 10):
LATAM decide to be members of.

LAN is staying in the oneworld alliance and TAM will be leaving the Star Alliance...
 
jumpjets
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):

LAN is staying in the oneworld alliance and TAM will be leaving the Star Alliance...

The second half of your statement is unquestionably true - the regulatory approval of the LAN/TAM merger specified that LATAM coudn't be in the same alliance as TACA/AVIANCA - who as we know has just joined Star.

Hopefully LAN and TAM will remain/join OneWorld but we have to wait and see. I am sure the OneWorld members have been courting LAN and TAM with increased vigour to make sure this happens.
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:09 am

LATAM's network to Europe:



*LAN Colombia currently holds 11 weekly frequencies between BOG and MAD.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:33 am

what about throwing theses into the game,

1. BCN
2. FCO
3. MAN
4. NCE 
Vietnam time..
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:28 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 14):
what about throwing theses into the game,

1. BCN
2. FCO

Concerning LAN, the B-787s will enable LAN to open new non-stop routes between SCL and Europe. LAN has recently shown an interest in launching routes such as Santiago-Barcelona and Santiago-Roma. IMO, LAN will eventually drop the tag-on to FRA on the SCL-MAD-FRA route and operate SCL-FRA as a non-stop service. By 2014, LAN could be operating:

SCL-MAD
SCL-FRA
SCL-BCN
SCL-FCO


Concerning TAM, it would depend on the privatization process of TAP. However, it would not be surprising to see TAM operating into destinations such as AMS, CPH, FCO, LIS, ZRH, etc. in the future.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:24 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 2):
just a guess i would consider Copenhagen Amsterdam and Lisbon
Quoting lisbonbearuk (Reply 10):
LIS will surely depend on two things 1) who buys TAP and 2) which alliances the 'new' TAP and LATAM decide to be members of

LIS seems to be the most glaring open spot on their European map. I expect them to start LIS sooner than later.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
recently stated in the Chilean press that new routes from SCL, GIG and GRU to Europe are very much on the agenda...

More routes from the Portugese speaking country in S. America to Europe? This solidifies my point that LIS is on the fast track to being part of the LATAM network.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 14):
3. MAN

You know, right after LIS, MAN was my second guess. Many foreign airlines are enjoying some good revenue operating from MAN.
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airbazar
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:53 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 16):
More routes from the Portugese speaking country in S. America to Europe? This solidifies my point that LIS is on the fast track to being part of the LATAM network.

I think they have bigger fish to fry. I'd say ZRH, AMS, BER, FCO, BCN, MOW, would all be ahead of LIS.
TP has a huge advantage in the LIS-Brazil market that LATAM would have a very hard time breaking into. The O&D market is not that big and rich. TP makes it work because they provide conenctions at LIS to just about every major European city and they own the corporate contracts thanks to the amount of frequencies they can provide. LATAM would have next to zero feed at LIS. That is why TAM does not serve LIS today.
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
TP makes it work because they provide conenctions at LIS to just about every major European city and they own the corporate contracts thanks to the amount of frequencies they can provide.

LIS-GRU 11x weekly is hardly impressive; there are more frequencies on the MAD-GRU route.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
TP has a huge advantage in the LIS-Brazil market that LATAM would have a very hard time breaking into.

TP also has an advantage in that it currently code-shares with JJ on all of its routes between Portugal and Brazil. LATAM already knows how much JJ contributes to TP's bottom line. If LATAM views the GRU-LIS and/or GIG-LIS routes as being potentially profitable; they will fly it.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
LATAM would have next to zero feed at LIS. That is why TAM does not serve LIS today.

That's not the reason why TAM does not serve LIS. Also, LATAM has feed from other destinations with-in Brazil into its hubs at GRU and GIG!
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:30 pm

Interesting that, at least one of the airlines in the group is actually downgrading capacity to Europe (LAN withdrawing A340's, putting 767's via GIG until the arrival of 787's). They would actually have less capacity in the route even with the 787's.

I'm guessing that the increase will come from TAM's side.

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A388
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
That's not the reason why TAM does not serve LIS. Also, LATAM has feed from other destinations with-in Brazil into its hubs at GRU and GIG!

That is true, except for Fortaleza, Natal, Porto Alegra, Recife, Salvador, Brasilia, Belo Horizonte which are all served by TP nonstop.

Also, why doesn't JJ fly to LIS?

A388
 
incitatus
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 15):
Concerning LAN, the B-787s will enable LAN to open new non-stop routes between SCL and Europe.

Among cities where LATAM has a large presence, SCL is the worst-located to serve Europe. And Rio and SP are much bigger markets. The only reason LATAM would open SCL-BCN or SCL-FCO would be because LATAM is controlled by Chileans based in Santiago.

Now that LAN has TAM, the only sensible services out of SCL are from oneworld hubs, MAD-SCL and LHR-SCL.
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airbazar
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
LIS-GRU 11x weekly is hardly impressive; there are more frequencies on the MAD-GRU route.

My point exactly. There isn't enough demand for 2 airlines. However keep in mind that TP doesn't need a lot of seats to GRU because they serve 9 cities in Brazil and can send passengers there directly rather than connect via GRU.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
TP also has an advantage in that it currently code-shares with JJ on all of its routes between Portugal and Brazil. LATAM already knows how much JJ contributes to TP's bottom line. If LATAM views the GRU-LIS and/or GIG-LIS routes as being potentially profitable; they will fly it.

My point is that with 2 airlines on the route, neither will be profitable so LATAM won't bother serving LIS when they can fly routes with more potential.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
That's not the reason why TAM does not serve LIS. Also, LATAM has feed from other destinations with-in Brazil into its hubs at GRU and GIG!

Which is irrelevant because there's hardly any traffic from LIS to any destination in S.America that is not already served by TP non-stop.

[Edited 2012-07-25 07:52:57]
 
A388
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:51 pm

Talking about TP's take over, what's the status of Avianca's bid for TP?

A388
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 21):
Among cities where LATAM has a large presence, SCL is the worst-located to serve Europe. And Rio and SP are much bigger markets.

LAN firmly believes that the B-787s will enable the airline to open new non-stop routes to Europe bypassing MAD from both LIM and SCL. Yes, LAN now has a major hub at GRU and will fly alongside TAM to destinations in Europe. LAN will have 12 B-787s in its fleet by 2014.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 21):
The only reason LATAM would open SCL-BCN or SCL-FCO would be because LATAM is controlled by Chileans based in Santiago.

Seriously, LAN would open those routes if LAN sees demand for those services. LIM-BCN is also another possibility.
 
incitatus
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:33 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 24):
Seriously, LAN would open those routes if LAN sees demand for those services. LIM-BCN is also another possibility.

In the context of LATAM SCL-BCN, SCL-FCO or LIM-BCN make no sense if GRU-BCN and GRU-FCO can be had.

SCL-MAD on Lan survives on a large local market and code-share beyond MAD with IB. Beyond replicating SCL-MAD in SCL-LHR w/ code-share with BA, other opportunities for Europe service out of SCL, really, are stamped out by LATAM's presence at GRU.

The market for SCL-Europe is less than half the size of GIG-Europe, which in turn is less than half the size of GRU-Europe. LIM is slightly better but still smaller than GIG.
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SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
In the context of LATAM SCL-BCN, SCL-FCO or LIM-BCN make no sense if GRU-BCN and GRU-FCO can be had.

LATAM operates a "multi-hub multi-destination" system and domestic flights, as well as certain regional flights also feed long-haul flights. International traffic continues to grow at both LIM and SCL. For example, AF is increasing capacity on the CDG-SCL route and now operates the route daily. At LIM, UX now operates the MAD-LIM route daily, KL will increase capacity on the daily AMS-LIM route and AF will revert the CDG-LIM route back to 5x weekly next year. The hypothetical SCL-BCN, SCL-FCO and LIM-BCN routes would not only cater to VFR traffic, but would also enable connections onto domestic flights; as well as certain regional flights.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
The market for SCL-Europe is less than half the size of GIG-Europe, which in turn is less than half the size of GRU-Europe.

Both the SCL-Europe and LIM-Europe markets are still growing, and will continue to grow since both the Chilean and Peruvian economies continue to grow robustly.
 
A388
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:18 pm

I have read several times about the economy in Peru being the fastest growing in South America so I can see why KL and AF are increasing their presence there. TK was also rumored to be looking at LIM, is that correct? What's the status on the Asian interest in starting flights to LIM? If things keep growing in Peru who knows, LAN Peru might as well start their Europe bound presence from LIM.

A388
 
incitatus
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 26):
Both the SCL-Europe and LIM-Europe markets are still growing, and will continue to grow since both the Chilean and Peruvian economies continue to grow robustly.

But the acquisition of TAM creates opportunities for LAN to connect passengers in both GRU and GIG and fly them from there nonstop to Europe. Thus new nonstop services on LAN from SCL to Europe become less attractive because SCL is the "end of the line". In the LAN network SCL is a poor location to serve Europe.
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C010T3
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
LIS-GRU 11x weekly is hardly impressive; there are more frequencies on the MAD-GRU route.

TP was barred from flying to GRU more than double daily by the ANAC. GIG was also freezed at 15x weekly. They received the opportunity to fly multiple frequencies to other points in Brazil instead. Only with the Brazil-Europe open skies agreement, TP will be able to increase its presence at either GRU or GIG.
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 28):
But the acquisition of TAM creates opportunities for LAN to connect passengers in both GRU and GIG and fly them from there nonstop to Europe. Thus new nonstop services on LAN from SCL to Europe become less attractive because SCL is the "end of the line".

SCL pax already connect onto TAM operated flights to Europe via GRU. Thus, it's non-stop to Europe from Brazil, not from SCL.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 28):
In the LAN network SCL is a poor location to serve Europe.

That's because LAN does not have an aircraft in its fleet that can operate new non-stop routes to Europe economically. The Boeing 787 will change that.
 
AirGAbon
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:12 am

SCL-CDG non-stop this time, with the B787, to compete with daily AF B777
 
incitatus
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:39 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 30):
That's because LAN does not have an aircraft in its fleet that can operate new non-stop routes to Europe economically. The Boeing 787 will change that.

The 787 won't change the handicaps of SCL.

Imagine Air New Zealand purchases Qantas. Immediately, routes from AKL to secondary destinations in SE Asia will become less attractive.
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A388
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 32):
The 787 won't change the handicaps of SCL.

The most important thing is to look at passenger flows from South America to Europe. If Brazil is the largest market than obviously it makes more sense to fly from GRU and GIG. The disadvantage of SCL is that it is further down south so it makes little sense in traveling from Brazil to SCL to go to Europe. The same goes for almost all South American countries, the only country that can make sense is Argentina as it's the only neighbouring country that is close enough to travel to Europe via SCL. It even makes more sense to fly via BOG to Europe from deep South America but also the other South American countries as the air routes to Europe from these countries don't detour much compared to Brazil-Europe. The only market that SCL can capture to Europe is the local market and Argentina. In this regards SCL indeed has a handicap which is it's geographical location.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 29):
TP was barred from flying to GRU more than double daily by the ANAC. GIG was also freezed at 15x weekly. They received the opportunity to fly multiple frequencies to other points in Brazil instead. Only with the Brazil-Europe open skies agreement, TP will be able to increase its presence at either GRU or GIG.

Thanks for clarifying this so TP actually wanted more frequencies from GRU and GIG but the authorities didn't approve this. That why there only have 11 weekly frequencies.

A388
 
RAGAZZO777
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 27):
I have read several times about the economy in Peru being the fastest growing in South America so I can see why KL and AF are increasing their presence there. TK was also rumored to be looking at LIM, is that correct? What's the status on the Asian interest in starting flights to LIM?

Unsure if the Peruvian economy is currently the fastest growing in South America, but the truth is that the Chilean, Colombian and Peruvian economies are doing very well despite the global financial crisis. This is reflected in the ongoing growth of the Chilean, Colombian and Peruvian air travel markets.

Currently, Korean Air operates cargo flights into LIM. They have stated that pax operations are possible in the medium term.


.

Quoting A388 (Reply 27):
If things keep growing in Peru who knows, LAN Peru might as well start their Europe bound presence from LIM.

From LIM there's potential for direct flights to Barcelona, Frankfurt and London. BCN and LON should be doable with the 787 for LP.
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SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 34):
This is reflected in the ongoing growth of the Chilean, Colombian and Peruvian air travel markets.

Indeed, the Chilean economy continues to grow robustly, which is reflected by the significant increase in air traffic. Last month, international traffic increased by 27.4% compared to the same month last year. LATAM dominates the Chilean international market by 67.3% and the Chilean domestic market by 74.1%. Interesting to note that traffic to Europe from Chile is also growing; even though the E.U.'s economy is in crisis.

RESUMEN ESTADÍSTICO TRANSPORTE AÉREO COMERCIAL EN CHILE - JUNIO 2012
 
Talaier
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 25):
The market for SCL-Europe is less than half the size of GIG-Europe, which in turn is less than half the size of GRU-Europe. LIM is slightly better but still smaller than GIG.

I agree the market from SCL is small. The only way more SCL-Europe flights can be introduced is reducing the feed the SCL-MAD flights currently have, which might be doable with the 787.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 34):
From LIM there's potential for direct flights to Barcelona, Frankfurt and London. BCN and LON should be doable with the 787 for LP.

I certainly expect the 767 to be substituted by a 787 flying to these destinations.
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting Talaier (Reply 36):
I certainly expect the 767 to be substituted by a 787 flying to these destinations.

Yes, the B-787s will be utilized on new routes to Europe. LAN will also replace the A343 on the SCL-MAD-FRA route with the B-787. The freed up A343s will be redeployed to increase flights into both AKL and SYD.
 
Talaier
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 35):
Indeed, the Chilean economy continues to grow robustly, which is reflected by the significant increase in air traffic. Last month, international traffic increased by 27.4% compared to the same month last year. LATAM dominates the Chilean international market by 67.3% and the Chilean domestic market by 74.1%. Interesting to note that traffic to Europe from Chile is also growing; even though the E.U.'s economy is in crisis.

RESUMEN ESTADÍSTICO TRANSPORTE AÉREO COMERCIAL EN CHILE - JUNIO 2012

Interesting to see that AF carries more passengers than IB (albeit marginally more: 3% vs. 2,7% market share which is not even a 1,000 pax more a month) to Chile. Has IB stopped sending the 346 or is it just their flights are flying emptier?
 
SCL767
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting Talaier (Reply 38):
Interesting to see that AF carries more passengers than IB (albeit marginally more: 3% vs. 2,7% market share which is not even a 1,000 pax more a month) to Chile. Has IB stopped sending the 346 or is it just their flights are flying emptier?


IB operates the A346 at least 3x weekly into SCL and the A343 4x weekly. It's interesting to note that traffic on AF's daily service has increased by 33.4% during the first half of this year; while IB's traffic has declined by -0.8%. Chileans prefer to fly long-haul to MAD on LAN since IB offers an inferior product on the route. Also, AF offers connections at CDG that are not available at MAD.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:57 am

In my view all will come from some interesting routes.

First, we will see Latam consolidating intra-hub routes between 5 of their primary hubs (SCL, LIM, BSB, GIG and GRU). I see the potential development of SCL-BSB and LIM-GIG/BSB.

Second, some routes to Europe will be created, linking some of these intra-hub routes, specially thru GIG and BSB. I do see 2 of the 4 routes as pass thru Rio de Janeiro:

SCL OR LIM-GIG-ZRH
Will be a route using the very best of the sports demand nowadays already in place between Zurich and Rio de Janeiro (for those who don't know, Rio is the HQ for the World Cup and of course... two years later a little more than that). There's of course business and government demand that would support it.
As GIG probably will be linked to all Latam hubs, Rio-Zurich makes a lot of sense as these markets already access ZRH thru one stop. If the product begins at SCL, would create also a morning departure GIG-SCL

LIM-GRU-BCN
I would believe that Latam will try to compete with a high frequency flight to Barcelona. With the chance to consolidate all spanish markets, already linked to Sao Paulo, chances are very good for Latam.

SCL or LIM-GIG-OSL
One of the largest business O&D from Europe to GIG without link, and probably the sole market without competition and with great potential. Norway despite the small poppulation, it is very rich, and very likely to look into South America as a good leisure destination. I would bet on Oslo !

I do see comments about FCO, AMS and LIS but i always raise the point of the competition.
AZ is not an easy competitor and already covered the front markets of South America. Not so much to be done even trying the feed from all around South America. I see FCO as a covered market.

KL is even stronger. Already in LIM, GRU, GIG and EZE and against Amsterdam, the fact that it is not such a huge O&D but rather, a limited O&D that take full advantage of connections.

LIS... even worst. O&D from SCL, LIM or BOG is limited and from all over Brazil, as TAP covers 10 markets (GIG, GRU, BSB, POA, SSA, REC, FOR, CNF and NAT) plus CCS with non-stops. This reduces the potential benefit of leisure or business markets
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 40):
First, we will see Latam consolidating intra-hub routes between 5 of their primary hubs (SCL, LIM, BSB, GIG and GRU).

BOG is also a LATAM hub. LATAM will soon operate BOG-GRU 13x weekly, LP currently operates LIM-BOG 2x daily, LA operates SCL-BOG 7x weekly, and LAN Ecuador/LAN Colombia will link BOG with UIO and GYE. LAN Colombia serves MIA and plans on launching BOG-JFK, BOG-LAX and BOG-MAD in the very near term. BOG will serve as a platform for LATAM to open new routes to Central America, the Caribbean, North America, etc.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 40):
Second, some routes to Europe will be created, linking some of these intra-hub routes, specially thru GIG and BSB. I do see 2 of the 4 routes as pass thru Rio de Janeiro:

We will also see new non-stop routes from LIM and SCL to Europe.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 40):
LIM-GRU-BCN
I would believe that Latam will try to compete with a high frequency flight to Barcelona. With the chance to consolidate all spanish markets, already linked to Sao Paulo, chances are very good for Latam.

LIM-GRU-BCN would not be attractive for the LIM hub. Also, IB and SQ already operate non-stop flights between BCN and GRU.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 40):
AZ is not an easy competitor and already covered the front markets of South America. Not so much to be done even trying the feed from all around South America. I see FCO as a covered market.

LAN is very interested in opening a route to FCO. LATAM's CEO actually mentioned FCO as a destination that LAN will eventually operate into when LAN and TAM announced their intention to combine.
 
RAGAZZO777
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:11 am

Interesting analysis, guys. Let me share with you my views on it:

.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 40):
LIM-GRU-BCN
I would believe that Latam will try to compete with a high frequency flight to Barcelona. With the chance to consolidate all spanish markets, already linked to Sao Paulo, chances are very good for Latam.

I'm sorry, but there are already 2 carriers on the BCN-GRU route while there's none on the BCN-LIM route. Add to that the fact that GRU is not really a suitable connection point for LIM-Europe flights as flying via GRU implies a HUGE detour from LIM. People would just continue to fly to BCN via MAD from LIM.


.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 40):
SCL or LIM-GIG-OSL
One of the largest business O&D from Europe to GIG without link, and probably the sole market without competition and with great potential. Norway despite the small poppulation, it is very rich, and very likely to look into South America as a good leisure destination. I would bet on Oslo !

For some reason, I just don't see OSL on LATAM's radar. Just because there are business links between Rio and Oslo, that doesn't mean direct flights are sustainable. I mean, are there any direct flights between Oslo and Houston ?
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:32 am

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 42):
Add to that the fact that GRU is not really a suitable connection point for LIM-Europe flights as flying via GRU implies a HUGE detour from LIM.

Indeed, LAN will eventually launch new non-stop routes from its hubs at BOG, LIM and SCL and isn't going to route every flight to Europe via Brazil. Also, the B-787s are needed to replace the B-767-316ERs that currently operate the LIM-MAD and GYE-MAD routes.
 
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:49 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 43):
Also, the B-787s are needed to replace the B-767-316ERs that currently operate the LIM-MAD and GYE-MAD routes.

Hopefully, the LIM-MAD route operated by LP will see the 787-9 as soon as LAN takes delivery of that aircraft type. The current 763s are way too small for that route. Just ask Air Europa or Iberia.
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:53 am

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 44):
Hopefully, the LIM-MAD route operated by LP will see the 787-9 as soon as LAN takes delivery of that aircraft type.

The B-787-9s will initially replace the A-343s.
 
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:40 am

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 34):
Currently, Korean Air operates cargo flights into LIM. They have stated that pax operations are possible in the medium term.

How would that be routed, with both SFO and LAX already having n/s service to LIM, would SEA or YVR be a good fit? Of course with full 5th freedom rights. At over 10K miles, I'm going to expect a mandatory fueling stop vs non-stop is in order.
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 40):
First, we will see Latam consolidating intra-hub routes between 5 of their primary hubs (SCL, LIM, BSB, GIG and GRU). I see the potential development of SCL-BSB and LIM-GIG/BSB

I realize you are talking about international service. But once you put together all the LATAM carriers, GRU is their largest base and the second largest is CGH. In fact, LATAM has three times more seats in Sao Paulo than in Santiago, even though it is so dominant in Chile.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 43):
Indeed, LAN will eventually launch new non-stop routes from its hubs at BOG, LIM and SCL and isn't going to route every flight to Europe via Brazil.

I agree. The other route I see coming out of SCL is LHR, but that is it. LATAM with its presence in Brazil will not support any other nonstops to Europe from SCL. SCL-Europe service will be primarily routed through MAD and LHR, and some of it through Brazil. If LA times SCL-LHR right, it may even do brisk business on AKL-LHR.
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 26):
Both the SCL-Europe and LIM-Europe markets are still growing, and will continue to grow since both the Chilean and Peruvian economies continue to grow robustly.

That may be the case but it doesn't change the fact that the market is relatively small and will continue to be relatively small. Chile's biggest trading partners are in N.America and Asia. As for tourism, it is predominantly regional (S.American visitors), followed by Americans. It's a long way from Europe to get to Chile (and Peru). And outside of Spain there's very little VFR traffic. Yes, European traffic is growing to/from Chile and Peru but so is to every where else.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 28):
But the acquisition of TAM creates opportunities for LAN to connect passengers in both GRU and GIG and fly them from there nonstop to Europe. Thus new nonstop services on LAN from SCL to Europe become less attractive because SCL is the "end of the line". In the LAN network SCL is a poor location to serve Europe.

  

Quoting Talaier (Reply 38):
Interesting to see that AF carries more passengers than IB

Asia is Chile's biggest trading zone (China and Japan predominantly). IB does not serve these markets and I suspect that is where AF gets its advantage.

Quoting incitatus (Reply 47):
SCL-Europe service will be primarily routed through MAD and LHR

I could see FRA being served as non-stop instead of via MAD. Germany is Europe's biggest economy and one of Chile's largest trading partners in Europe. It would make sense to fly SCL-FRA non-stop.
 
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RE: Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe

Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 48):
I could see FRA being served as non-stop instead of via MAD. Germany is Europe's biggest economy and one of Chile's largest trading partners in Europe. It would make sense to fly SCL-FRA non-stop.

We do not know exactly why LA serves FRA. Only LA knows. Multiple German airports can be reached from MAD, so a lot of Germany-bound traffic can change in MAD instead of going to FRA. Then SCL-MAD-FRA possibly shares the benefits Asian traffic like AF: One can fly into FRA on LA then interline/codeshare on either LH or an Asian carrier from there. Finally there is freight. It is possible that the tag into FRA only survives due to freight. It may be that if LA opens SCL-LHR, it will suck in a lot of Asia traffic and will make SCL-FRA nonstop a real struggle.
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