tsnamm
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UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:25 pm

They just announced today that all the remaining former CO Cargo operations are to be outsourced by 2013, including all hubs... not sure the exact number of employees affected, probably close to 1,500 -2,000...so much for all the "growth opportunities"... already cutting costs...
 
N766UA
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:28 pm

Outstanding. Another reason to love the new UA.
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:37 pm

Quoting tsnamm (Thread starter):
They just announced today that all the remaining former CO Cargo operations are to be outsourced by 2013, including all hubs... not sure the exact number of employees affected, probably close to 1,500 -2,000...so much for all the "growth opportunities"... already cutting costs...
Quoting N766UA (Reply 1):
Outstanding. Another reason to love the new UA.

tsnamm, did you even read the whole announcement? That is no where NEAR the full color of the text that was announced. Just so everyone is clear, this was the most minor piece of a major announcement about INSOURCING several airports. And all planeside cargo handling will still be done by mainline employees.

Sheesh.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:39 pm

Jeff makes the best Kool-Aid! I know he hates that the IAM won the Ramp vote. Him and his minions were biting at the bit to have the 15,000 Rampers under that crappy Teamster contract. I feel sorry for those CO guys. I hope they can find jobs somewhere in the system.
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:39 pm

Well much of sUA Cargo side has been outsourced already for years, including even at large stations like LAX.

Management by now certainly must have good data to well compare the benefits/downside of going out for the work.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
tsnamm
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 2):
tsnamm, did you even read the whole announcement? That is no where NEAR the full color of the text that was announced. Just so everyone is clear, this was the most minor piece of a major announcement about INSOURCING several airports. And all planeside cargo handling will still be done by mainline employees.

I didn't have to read it, HR told us face to face...ALL Cargo is being outsourced period...EWR,IAH,JFK,,LAX,CLE,MIA etc...tell all the employees losing their jobs that it's a minor piece...they're not insourcing anything...
 
co/ba
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:01 pm

It does not look like bringing 5 small outstations in house is going to assist all of the displaced cargo employees. I'm sure everyone saw this coming. The rumors have been around for a while.
 
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mayor
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 2):
And all planeside cargo handling will still be done by mainline employees.

And it would be my guess that he's talking about the cargo "processing" not loading on the ramp by ramp employees.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
tsnamm
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:25 pm

[quote=mayor,reply=7]And it would be my guess that he's talking about the cargo "processing" not loading on the ramp by ramp employees.[/quote

Yes all the warehouse and Post Office work...it will be close to 1,000 jobs lost between EWR,IAH alone...what few ramp insourcing jobs they get at those small stations will not be able to make up the difference...also due to the current status of the 2 separate contracts, any bumping rights can only be exercised into sCO ramp operations...
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:27 pm

Yes its the cargo warehouse work.


And United is not the only one. AA just this week notified its MIA staff that it would outsource its cargo customer service and warehouse work commencing in October as well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
cargolex
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:39 pm

Is there anywhere "official" to read this notice?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):

And United is not the only one. AA just this week notified its MIA staff that it would outsource its cargo customer service and warehouse work commencing in October as well.

comparing a BK airline, who can pretty much do anything it wants, to one that isn't in BK? sounds like you work in management
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
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mayor
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11):
comparing a BK airline, who can pretty much do anything it wants, to one that isn't in BK? sounds like you work in management

As has been said, UA did this before, probably when THEY were in BK. All they're doing is completing it after the merger with CO. DL did this, twice, before BK. The first time was in '95 and we finally convinced management that if staffed with DL agents, we could do a better job than the contractor and we did. The second time was right after I retired in '05, just before the BK. I hope it's working this time, but I wouldn't bet on it. The difference with DL is, at least in the hubs, they didn't outsource customer service or any of the other office jobs.....just the warehouse.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:06 pm

Comparisons are valid. Its an industry trend.

UA has had contracted warehouses for ages - I remember when Swissport got the contract maybe 10-years ago for ORD, SFO, LAX, DEN, IAD, and several smaller stations. Now the CO side is simply falling in line with having its stations comparably contracted out.

Regarding AA, they are also simply catching up to their peers. Having it in-house obviously is part of their greater cost issue.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
GolfBravoRomeo
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Yes its the cargo warehouse work.

As a regular CO Cargo EWR customer (pick ups) I am not happy to hear this.

To the workers, thanks for all the years of outstanding service.
 
CO777DAL
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:37 pm

It is an absolute shame to see what has happen to CO. I have been flying them for years now. I saw them pulled themselves out of the gutter to being number one. Say what you want but IMO no other US airline hit rock bottom like CO did right before Bethune stepped in. Little by little over the past few years, I have seen management chip away at what made this airline great. I really feel sorry for the employees. My heart goes out to all those losing their jobs.
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting cargolex (Reply 10):
Is there anywhere "official" to read this notice?

Not at the moment.
 
dlramp4life
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:16 pm

How about ramp? When will they come to together in cities that had both PMCO and PMUA service?
SEA Ramp, wettest place on earth
 
EWRamp
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:19 pm

I think its crazy that I heard this info here first, instead of hearing it from the company. Looks like I need to start making a plan B.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting EWRamp (Reply 18):
I think its crazy that I heard this info here first, instead of hearing it from the company. Looks like I need to start making a plan B.

Well, we heard it from the company. Some distribution channels internally are faster than others, and being a.net whoever gets it first often feels the compulsive need to post it immediately instead of having the respect for their co-workers to hear it themselves straight from the horses mouth.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:15 pm

Not good news. Man, Smisek really is a POS. For a long time I tried to not compare him to Lorenzo, but he is really turning into a Lorenzo 'lite'.

Supposedly Q2 earnings are not going to be good. Hopefully he'll get removed and this airline can be reborn.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
BC77008
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:23 pm

$mi$ek is a FLIBS (Frank Lorenzo in better suit). But I really love this culture of working together™ and treating eachother with Dignity® and Respect® that he is building. Such an exciting, exciting time at UA.
"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
 
777ord
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:24 pm

BC77008, I assume you are also on the 27th floor here in Chicago?? If so, I'd love to see more interaction from the CO/UA crews. I don't get the whole tension. Oh well.
 
CALMSP
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:19 am

Quoting 777ord (Reply 22):

   haha!!
 
BC77008
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:47 am

Quoting 777ord (Reply 22):
BC77008, I assume you are also on the 27th floor here in Chicago?? If so, I'd love to see more interaction from the CO/UA crews. I don't get the whole tension. Oh well.

No, I don't work on the 27th floor, but my partner does. We moved here from Houston this past April. He says very much the same thing, that he'd like to see more interaction among the CO and UA crews. He says it's like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing right now. Anyway, my post above is to be taken with just a grain of salt and was basically spoken in jest. Please don't take me too seriously. I was lucky enough to get a job at ExpressJet as an FA based in ORD (something I've always wanted to do!)
"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
 
tpaewr
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:08 am

It is all kinda sad, the total sum of this transaction.

Sometimes I am almost thankful we kept the "United" name. It would be worse to have the CO I knew also defamed in addition in vanishing into the abyss as it is doing now.


The "saving grace" will be the new company controls such an amazing franchise it will survive despite the epic malfunction. Then if we get the AA/US merger, this will look like a picnic by comparison. So it will all lumber on.


On the ironic side.....PA's old Pacific, and LHR routes will all have "blue globes" again, lol (albeit not exactly the same)
 
T5towbar
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:13 am

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 8):
Yes all the warehouse and Post Office work...it will be close to 1,000 jobs lost between EWR,IAH alone...what few ramp insourcing jobs they get at those small stations will not be able to make up the difference...also due to the current status of the 2 separate contracts, any bumping rights can only be exercised into sCO ramp operations...

I know there is about 400-500 at EWR.
We were told today that they were going to outsource Cargo The turnover to the vendor will take place early next year. (Don't know who is the vendor, but my guess it would probably be CAS.) I didn't hear anything about buyouts and/or Early Outs yet.

Hopefully there may or may not be a major bump and roll at EWR (our contract has bumping rights on the sCO side), since the hub is (IMHO) short staffed. If they are going to use the sCO staffing model, we can use all the help we can get. (Doing 800's with a lead and 2 agents every day is no fun.) I see that sUA has more people working flights than us. (I don't know their staffing model or how many people working a flight, but it is definitely more people than we use) Hopefully those who want to come to the ramp can do so without bumping someone out of a job. But this is all still open because we still don't have a contract yet, and we are not working and fully integrated between sUA & sCO yet.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
Max Q
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:24 am

Great shame but Smisek the buffoon will be gone soon.



The writing is on the wall.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:48 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 27):
Great shame but Smisek the buffoon will be gone soon.



The writing is on the wall.

Bring back Tilton!   
 
a318
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:39 am

Pardon my ignorance, but why do I keep seeing a lowercase 's' before CO and UA?
Welcome aboard!
 
idlewildchild
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:31 am

Sadly I don't think there's an industry that isn't outsourcing labor, from airlines to accountants to lawyers. Anywhere the 'grunt' work can get done 'off shore,' it's happening. And all to increase profits. I wonder when the working class of the USA are going to revolt against this trend. There won't be folks to buy products because they won't have the money to spend or will the great financial divide so grow deep the 'have's' won't care.

Another bottom line decision that sounds reasonable but is a very frightening trend in the airline industry, and other.s
 
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STT757
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:27 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
Supposedly Q2 earnings are not going to be good

$545 Million dollar profit, $339 Million when including special charges.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united...second-quarter-2012-113000230.html
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
klwright69
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting A318 (Reply 29):
Pardon my ignorance, but why do I keep seeing a lowercase 's' before CO and UA?

To distinguish between what assets were originally CO and UA premerger. S means subsidiary. Remember it is called United Continental Holdings.
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 17):

How about ramp? When will they come to together in cities that had both PMCO and PMUA service?

My guess is the remaining field stations, that have yet to be outsourced will be coming down the line. The trend was already happening on both sides prior to the merger. I see a UA that will have all outsourced employees in the field later on, and only management will remain, along with flight crews, and maybe some maintenance.
UA is in the process of outsourcing the outsourcing. They have pretty much thrown out EV and are working on OO as well, with regards to ground handling. I understand its about cost, however
how much money are they throwing away in the effort to save?
You get no loyalty towards the company, from employees with no benefits, poor service, and those said employees only remain until they can find a better paying job. So attrition is high. It is sad to see some of these airlines do this to themselves, but you cannot demand quality service from your employees and treat them like crap at the same time.

JD CRP soon to be ex EXjet (thanks to outsourcing the outsourced)
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:57 pm

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 33):
I see a UA that will have all outsourced employees in the field later on, and only management will remain

FWIW, when UA outsources a station they don't keep any management IN the station. They have management centrally for each outsourced partner. CO kept a manager in the station, UA has gone away from this back to the way s-UA did it premerger.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 33):
They have pretty much thrown out EV and are working on OO as well, with regards to ground handling. I understand its about cost, however
how much money are they throwing away in the effort to save?

This was actually a concious choice by SkyWest Holdings. They have decided to consolidate all of their subsidiaries ground handling under the OO brand.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 33):
from employees with no benefits, poor service, and those said employees only remain until they can find a better paying job. So attrition is high.

Some companies do plan their attrition high, DGS for example the anecdote I've heard aims for up to 30% attrition to keep their labor rates down. However, most of the partners UA engages with are companies with a relatively stable labor force, ie SkyWest, American Eagle, Air Wisconsin et al.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 17):
How about ramp? When will they come to together in cities that had both PMCO and PMUA service?

They will be together once a joint contract is signed. Probably sometime during '13 would be my guess, but I have no non-public information on the topic.
 
cle757
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:15 pm

Two days later and still no official notice from the union (IAM)
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T5towbar
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:27 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 35):
Two days later and still no official notice from the union (IAM)

You know the IAM has nothing to say on this one. I got the chance to ask Delaney this question when he and his people were at the EWR meet-and-greet, and he had absolutely nothing to say in the matter. I thought that Cargo would be a pawn in the negotiations, and it would be sacrificed later. But this was in the works a long time ago. There was nothing that the IAM (or the IBT can do in that matter.) This was a done deal. And our IBT contract put it in writing (Art. 1, Sec. D). Once we started doing things to "align" ourselves with sUA like removing the food off our planes to match sUA, well you knew where they was taking us. And then when the company announced that brand spanking new cargo warehouse at ORD, and NONE of us on either side would be working it, well that was the final nail in the coffin of cargo.

Just hoping that people can be absorbed into the operation with minimal job loss.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
FI642
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:08 am

You get what you pay for. Cargo used to be such an important component. I guess it isn't any more.
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
F9Animal
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:58 am

So glad I didn't take the job offer from CO a few years ago! I would have been really sad today.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
cle757
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:52 am

Well thanks to the IBT contract most of these employees can bump to the ramp.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
EWRamp
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:54 pm

My 5 years senority isnt gonna mean anything compared to the senority of the cargo employees. I guess all I can do is keep my fingers crossed.
 
malaysia
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:51 am

Well I heard that at SFO, they are hiring 100s of new ramp employees 50/50 under sCO and sUA lately, so there could be some opportunity
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
tsnamm
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:53 am

Quoting cle757 (Reply 39):
Well thanks to the IBT contract most of these employees can bump to the ramp.




Actually not so...the IBT contract was little more than the Fly to Win handbook with little job protections at all....there are no bumping rights at all, like there are in the sUA IAM contract...cargo employees can only move to open slots on the ramp. And each cargo station will have 1st dibs to get those slots available at their own ramp before anyone from outside sat ions can try for any that might remain. Current ramp employees past their 6 month probation cannot be bumped from any position....
 
cle757
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 42):
Actually not so...the IBT contract was little more than the Fly to Win handbook with little job protections at all....there are no bumping rights at all, like there are in the sUA IAM contract...cargo employees can only move to open slots on the ramp. And each cargo station will have 1st dibs to get those slots available at their own ramp before anyone from outside sat ions can try for any that might remain. Current ramp employees past their 6 month probation cannot be bumped from any position

Not true, check again they can bump!
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
T5towbar
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:39 pm

Article 7 of the contract says there are bumping rights.

Right now, the goal should be the minimizing of job loss. We don't know how many people will come over to the ramp. Some people went over to cargo not to do the harder work of the ramp, and some may not want to come over. We don't know how many line stations are they going to keep as mainline (like the 7 they were going to farm out after the first union vote). If they are going to open up stations, well that may help on both sides. In IAH (or in all the hubs for that matter) M/L should be doing the express work. That model works well at EWR. And it is protected at ORD. We should be doing that work in a mainline hub. Roitman knows it works, and from what I've heard, the bag numbers & on time numbers show it. (even though on time as a whole sucks)

The only thing I can think of is once a unified contract is agreed to, and the total head count (which I'm quite sure the company knows how many of us they will need), normal attrition; buyouts; early outs; and packages will be offered.

Quoting EWRamp (Reply 40):
My 5 years senority isnt gonna mean anything compared to the senority of the cargo employees. I guess all I can do is keep my fingers crossed.

I know.
A good part of the hub was hired from 2005 (after the concessions) to 2008 (before the oil spike). I'm hoping that the bump and roll won't be severe. We need a lot of people here, because with the sCO staffing model, we are always working short.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
tsnamm
Topic Author
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:43 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 43):
Not true, check again they can bump!



I checked the IBT contract...we are both correct...and both wrong...because this is an outsourcing and not a furlough, bumping is allowed "in station" meaning EWR Cargo can bump into EWR Ramp, CLE Cargo into CLE Ramp etc. as long as it is the sCO ramp obviously. Moving from out of station to these locations or system wide, it is only to open slots or probationary employees. So EWR can bump into EWR but if they wanted to go to FLL there would have to be an opening or probationary employee in order to move there. .
 
cle757
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:13 pm

I think in station bumping is only for part-time employees, but full-time can go to other stations.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
gigneil
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RE: UA To Outsource All Former CO Cargo Stations

Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
Supposedly Q2 earnings are not going to be good. Hopefully he'll get removed and this airline can be reborn.

They were announced days ago. $339 million in profits is nothing to sneeze at.

NS

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