Virginblue4
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What's Wrong With This Runway?

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:44 pm

Was just watching this video - what's wrong with the runway? It looks like a load of cracks have been filled in. Is that what is actually is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM00W...tgPyI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks  
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FX1816
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:52 pm

It does just appear to be LOTS of cracks that have been repaired/filled in over time. I'd be curiouse to know just how old that runway is though.

FX1816
 
macsog6
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:00 pm

Not sure where it is, but many of the old military runways in the US midwest built to train crews in WWII look like this. They are now sixty plus years old, but were build to last forever and are still in use. They just have a ton of cracks due to the cold winters that have been filled in over the decades.

[Edited 2012-07-25 14:05:17]
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Viscount724
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting virginblue4 (Thread starter):
Was just watching this video - what's wrong with the runway? It looks like a load of cracks have been filled in. Is that what is actually is?

Yes, that's very common. Look at the following video of a First Air 737-200 (probably with gravel runway kit) landing and taking off at Norman Wells (YVQ), a small community (population about 800) in Canada's Northwest Territories. Note the thousands of filled cracks in the 6,000 ft. runway. With summer-winter temperature variations that can range from 30C to -50C, paved surfaces are very prone to cracking. That's why there are only very few airports with paved runways in Canada's far north and why elderly 737-200s, mostly combis with gravel-runway equipment, are still used by half a dozen operators serving that region. Nothing else today can do the same job.

Landing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbob_malone/5784228823/in/photostream/

Takeoff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbob_malone/5774027457/in/photostream/

[Edited 2012-07-25 14:17:08]
 
steex
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:10 pm

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):
Not sure where it is, but many of the old military runways in the US midwest built to train crews in WWII look like this. They are now sixty plus years old, but were build to last forever and are still in use. They just have a ton of cracks due to the cold winters that have been filled in over the decades.

Your description here is pretty much an exact match for this airport's history. It is Strother Field (WLD/KWLD)serving Winfield, KS and Arkansas City, KS, and was formerly Strother Army Airfield during the 1940s.
 
macsog6
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 4):
Your description here is pretty much an exact match for this airport's history. It is Strother Field (WLD/KWLD)serving Winfield, KS and Arkansas City, KS, and was formerly Strother Army Airfield during the 1940s.

Seeing as I first learned to fly in Wichita, I thought it looked familiar. Probably have fifty touch-and-goes there from way back when.
Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
 
Virginblue4
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:49 pm

Thank you everyone for the replies and interesting information  
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beau222
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:44 am

New meaning to Raised and Grooved.
 
AA757MIA
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:44 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
Yes, that's very common.

It is, many roads look like that around here in CO and WY.
 
bthebest
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:10 am

Am i right in thinking it's a gyrocopter that the video's taken from?
 
cptspeaking
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:07 am

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 9):
Am i right in thinking it's a gyrocopter that the video's taken from?

Looks like a glider - no engine noise, and there's somebody waiting to drag it off the runway at the end of the video. Also, you can tell there are points when the wingtips drag, which wouldn't be good in a gyro  
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FlyHossD
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:26 am

Quoting cptspeaking (Reply 10):
Looks like a glider - no engine noise, and there's somebody waiting to drag it off the runway at the end of the video. Also, you can tell there are points when the wingtips drag, which wouldn't be good in a gyro  

There's another YouTube video, "Chris Swam Takeoff" that answers the question. Indeed, it's a glider (take a look).
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NBGSkyGod
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:48 am

Its a common sight at many small airports in colder climates and very hot climates. Its a result of heating and cooling of the surface eventually leads to cracking. While larger airports can afford more crack resistant surfaces, many of these smaller airports cannot, so a result is more patched cracks. Take a look a google earth around the midwest and northeast and you will see many of the airports in the countryside are very heavily patched.
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brilondon
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:57 pm

There is nothing wrong with this runway unless you try to land on it with an A380, than it is too short.
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YYCSpotter
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
That's why there are only very few airports with paved runways in Canada's far north and why elderly 737-200s, mostly combis with gravel-runway equipment, are still used by half a dozen operators serving that region. Nothing else today can do the same job.

Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities? I can't find anything anywhere. If there were more modern options, the airlines of north Canada would probably use them! I know that 4N and Canadian North operate 737 classic aircraft, but they operate strictly from paved runways (ie. YYC, YVR, YEG, YXY)
I
 
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ADent
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities?

727
 
steex
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:53 pm

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities?

I believe the majority of Russian birds are designed with the ability to operate from gravel given the prevalence of unpaved airfields in remote areas of Russia.
 
SAAFNAV
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting cptspeaking (Reply 10):

Looks like a glider - no engine noise, and there's somebody waiting to drag it off the runway at the end of the video. Also, you can tell there are points when the wingtips drag, which wouldn't be good in a gyro

Also, the beep/whine of the variometer gives it away.

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Viscount724
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
I know that 4N and Canadian North operate 737 classic aircraft, but they operate strictly from paved runways (ie. YYC, YVR, YEG, YXY)

Canadian North still operates quite a few charter flights with gravel kit-equipped 732 combis to remote mine sites with gravel strips. Example below, departing from the diamond mine at Snap Lake, about 150 miles northeast of Yellowknife.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Pineau Photography



They also still operate scheduled flights to at least 2 airports with gravel runways -- Cambridge Bay (YCB) and Kugluktuk (YCO). Video of a Canadian North 732C landing on the 5,076 ft. gravel runway at Cambridge Bay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-8OIEPB9ZE

[Edited 2012-07-26 15:26:20]
 
YYCSpotter
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):

I know that they operate 732's from gravel strips, But I am talking about the 733/734/735...

too bad airbuses dont have gravel kits avaliable...
I
 
spacecadet
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:41 am

What exactly does a "gravel kit" consist of?
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yeelep
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:11 pm

I would think the lack of demand and engine ground clearance kept any of the CFM powered 737's from having gravel kits.


http://www.b737.org.uk/unpavedstripkit.htm
 
threepoint
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities?

Lockheed L-188 Electra.
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Viscount724
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RE: What's Wrong With This Runway?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting threepoint (Reply 22):
Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities?

Lockheed L-188 Electra.

And of course many others if you include propeller types. For example, ATR-42s and Dash 8s have been using gravel runways in Canada for years.

The only L-188s in Canada are freighters or water bombers.

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