MEA
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Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:19 pm

Here's the latest QF and EK rumour doing the rounds in Australian media:

QF to cease Frankfurt
LHR only European port for QF
DXB to become QF hub for flights to Europe
QF to focus on flights from Australia to Asia and intra-Asia

source: http://m.businessspectator.com.au/bu...L?opendocument&src=rss&modapt=news
 
macsog6
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:22 pm

Does this give us a clue that EK is going to join 1W?
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 1):

Does this give us a clue that EK is going to join 1W?

Or just sounds like QF is going to bed with the enemy?
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ThomasCook
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:55 pm

Hi,

Two weeks ago, it was QF and QR forming an 'alliance'...

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jumpjets
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:09 pm

Based on various topics kicking around a.net - BA loves QR; AB loves EY and now QF loves EK - so it sounds like all the MEB3 airlines are heading to Oneworld.....
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 2):
Or just sounds like QF is going to bed with the enemy?
Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 3):
Two weeks ago, it was QF and QR forming an 'alliance'...

The first thing that comes to my head is that QF is more or less trying to duplicate DJ's strategy of establishing a "virtual global hub" by entering into codeshare agreements with stronger players in the Middle East, Southeast Asia and the Americas.

Indeed, that strategy has worked for DJ in terms of capturing a higher-yielding segment of the corporate travel market. QF can only outsource its less profitable routes to JQ for so long.
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 3):
Hi,

Two weeks ago, it was QF and QR forming an 'alliance'...

Exactly. Should this be interpreted to mean that QF's deal with QR is off?
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting MEA (Thread starter):
Here's the latest QF and EK rumour doing the rounds in Australian media:

QF to cease Frankfurt
LHR only European port for QF
DXB to become QF hub for flights to Europe
QF to focus on flights from Australia to Asia and intra-Asia

I think this report is a tad mis-guided in that I doubt FRA will cease.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 5):
The first thing that comes to my head is that QF is more or less trying to duplicate DJ's strategy of establishing a "virtual global hub" by entering into codeshare agreements with stronger players in the Middle East, Southeast Asia and the Americas.

Not really. QF already has the "virtual global hub" but it is currently at LHR. Moving it from LHR to DXB means its customers don't have to back track to Europe/Middle East areas.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 1):
Does this give us a clue that EK is going to join 1W?

Highly doubt it. EK has no need for alliance membership.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:36 pm

This rumour almost sounds as bad as the Qantas International are going to stop serving Perth.

Currently from Perth Qantas have 2 flights a day to Singapore and 3 flights a week to Hong Kong, maybe Jetstar can look after these services.
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:38 pm

Story by Reuters now.

Basically says QF-EK are looking at an "alliance", where Qantas will rely on EK to " ferry customers across some European destinations, as well as the Middle East and parts of Africa."

QF would route many of its flights into DXB instead of Singapore currently.

Also report says, deal would leave LHR as QF sole European port, and the BA-QF Kangaroo JV might even come to an end.

Story:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/qantas...lks-emirates-report-232852162.html

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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:46 pm

This will be interesting. Very interesting. Would be weird seeing the red tail at DXB.

Hope this works, for QF's future in international ops
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:58 pm

Would it also be better for QF to move to Star. They could work with NZ/TG/NH and get better access to China with CA.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Basically says QF-EK are looking at an "alliance", where Qantas will rely on EK to " ferry customers across some European destinations, as well as the Middle East and parts of Africa."

QF would route many of its flights into DXB instead of Singapore currently.

While EK gets access to the one thing it wants, the Qantas Frequent Flyer Program. Lets make no mistake, Australia is Emirates 3rd biggest market and access to the largest FF program plus codeshare and connections will help its market presence hugely.

Also QF wouldn't be able to route many of its flight into DXB instead of SIN. The A330's QF uses into SIN from PER, ADL, CNS and other places can't make it to DXB. Realistically the only thing you'll see in DXB, if it happens, are QF A380's.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:40 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 13):
Also QF wouldn't be able to route many of its flight into DXB instead of SIN. The A330's QF uses into SIN from PER, ADL, CNS and other places can't make it to DXB. Realistically the only thing you'll see in DXB, if it happens, are QF A380's.

A QF 744 PER-DXB would work, and maybe BNE-DXB, but not sure where they will find the aircraft?
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 am

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 14):

Agreed.

Well, possibly FRA if the rumours are true.  
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:54 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 13):
Realistically the only thing you'll see in DXB, if it happens, are QF A380's.

& 787s, leaving the 330s currently used to open more Asian ports.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting MilesDependent (Reply 14):
A QF 744 PER-DXB would work, and maybe BNE-DXB, but not sure where they will find the aircraft?

Exactly! Don't forget the QF plan is for them to be down to 9 744's and there are no more A380's coming into the fleet for a few years.

Quoting tayser (Reply 16):
& 787s, leaving the 330s currently used to open more Asian ports.

First 787's are going to Jetstar. QF 789's aren't scheduled to start joining the fleet until 2015. That's a 3 year gap in capability. So while eventually you might see it, it's a way off. Realistically it's A380 or bust if it happens now.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:14 am

Quoting MEA (Thread starter):
QF to cease Frankfurt
LHR only European port for QF
DXB to become QF hub for flights to Europe
QF to focus on flights from Australia to Asia and intra-Asia

Sounds extremely sensible to me.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 13):
Also QF wouldn't be able to route many of its flight into DXB instead of SIN. The A330's QF uses into SIN from PER, ADL, CNS and other places can't make it to DXB.

I'm surprised the A330 can't make PER-DXB - or is that Qantas specific aircraft?

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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:26 am

I think it makes sense and all of you speaking about the virtual global hub got the biggest issue of QF. It has a very limited home market that with the few exceptions of long-haul flights to JNB and SCL essentially is just in the wrong geographical position for much connecting traffic other than domestic, New Zealand and the rest of Oceania. So what it needs are strong destination points for its long-haul flights with lots of connection opportunities. Working with JetStar subsidiaries overseas (SIN, HKG, NRT) is one thing, but then if you look at oneworld, they are really not in the best position to serve that strategy well. For each long-haul flights, Qantas needs some sort of feed on the other end unless the O&D is strong enough, that is why it for example works closely with China Eastern to make the Shanghai route work.

It needs such partnerships because everyone else (ME, Asian carriers) can beat them by flying to each Australian city non-stop and offering a lot of one-stop connections through their hubs (same problem for the European carriers and what the ME carriers are doing to them, but a bigger issue for QF since they have a smaller home market and fewer own connecting opportunities).

So two, three, four profitable flights to DXB thanks to EK connecting traffic can make a big difference and then it participates itself. MH and UL joining oneworld might help, but they are not the strongest possible partners.
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:15 am

Quoting MEA (Thread starter):
source: http://m.businessspectator.com.au/bu...=news

In relation to this Qantas has made the following announcement to the Stock Exchange;

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20120726/pdf/427m2y4mhzk3w3.pdf

Essentially it's still in discussion with a number of airlines about potential alliances one of which is Emirates. The other, given the media attention, is obviously Qatar. So these articles from Reuters etc are all jumping the gun.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:23 am

Despite QF being a founding member of Oneworld, I wonder if they would consider leaving to start their own alliance with EK.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:13 am

Quoting meta (Reply 21):

I was thinking thinking the same exact thing.

QF isn't really that close with any airline part of oneWorld. Compared to AA/BA/IB/JL, then UA/AC/LH in *A; and last but not least DL/AF/KL/AZ.

QF just provides feed to BA on inter Aussie flights, CX and QF don't cooperate at all (remember QF wanted to open a hub in HKG), QF/AA are close but if QF would leave oneWorld then it wouldn't be a big deal for the two. The DFW flight would just be cut, and then CP isn't around anymore.

QF's biggest problem with leaving oneWorld would be losing feed in LAX from AA, and possibly not having BA behind them in LHR.

This will be an interesting story to follow.
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:40 am

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 22):
CX and QF don't cooperate at all (remember QF wanted to open a hub in HKG)

QF and MU will launch Jetstar Hong Kong next year.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 22):
The DFW flight would just be cut

QF could also cut the SYD-SCL flight and discontinue code-sharing on LA's SCL-AKL-SYD route. Coincidentally, CX code-shares on LA's SCL-AKL-SYD route; which has significantly boosted LFs on the route.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:10 am

QF has reportedly confirmed that they are in talks with EK, along with numerous other airlines.

Source -- AusBT

EK still doesn't make sense to me... Ending the JV with BA and moving towards a more in depth relationship with an Asian/ME airline does though.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:58 am

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 22):

QF and AA have a JV across the South Pacific. Granted, AA doesn't serve Australia (that was actually a selling point for the JV - no loss of competition) but to claim that they lack closeness with oneworld isn't entirely true. Two JV's seems pretty solid. We all know that CX and QF hate each other, possibly irreparably, but there are opportunities for further cooperation with JL, UL and MH down the road, plus a Middle East partner.

As a counterpoint, given Star's huge footprint, it becomes a harder and harder to argue that Star "wouldn't be a better fit" for feed and network scope. FRA, BKK, SIN, ICN, PEK, NRT, JNB, LAX, SFO, IAH are all roughly equivalent markets or connecting points from what QF has now, but I don't see how this doesn't beat up NZ as collateral damage. Though to be fair, this argument is true literally everywhere now except deep South America.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:30 am

Quoting meta (Reply 21):
Despite QF being a founding member of Oneworld, I wonder if they would consider leaving to start their own alliance with EK.

Not going to happen. QF can stay in OW and partner with EK.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 23):
QF could also cut the SYD-SCL flight and discontinue code-sharing on LA's SCL-AKL-SYD route. Coincidentally, CX code-shares on LA's SCL-AKL-SYD route; which has significantly boosted LFs on the route.

Again, there is no reason for QF to cease co-operating with LAN. Both acknowledge the boost it has given their South American services.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 22):
QF's biggest problem with leaving oneWorld would be losing feed in LAX from AA, and possibly not having BA behind them in LHR.

American currently has an arrangement with Etihad. Considering the size and scale of EK it actually makes more sense for American to switch to Emirates than continue co-operating with Etihad. Or for them to co-operate with both.

The following article is interesting for those following all of this;

Top
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:39 am

Just landed in FRA from QF5 SIN-FRA. I could say load factor was about 40% in business and 70% in economy. What is interesting, as flight was 2 hours late, crew announced rebookings for passengers. I was very surprised that so many passengers had onward connections with Lufthansa. As those airlines do not codeshare the flight, it should be very expensive for QF to issue simple interline tickets on LH meaning general seat yield on QF flight is low.

Anyway, despite global strategy of QF they should do something with their route to FRA as in current environment such ultra long flights to no-partner territory do not make much sense.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:07 am

Regards alliances would QF really be retaining LHR on its own metal if it had any plans to leave Oneworld ?
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
I'm surprised the A330 can't make PER-DXB - or is that Qantas specific aircraft?

No doubt. These have a lower MTOW than 233t. However, they could use A332s.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:49 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 24):
EK still doesn't make sense to me..

It makes sense to this Fairfax writer - he's very excited about it. Perhaps a bit too excited - it'll be a real downer for him if it doesn't happen:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/qa...-with-emirates-20120726-22u75.html

"Qantas on to a winner with Emirates

Emirates has a geographical advantage, they have lower unit costs, they don't pay tax in the oil-rich United Arab Emirates. And they're expanding capacity like there is no tomorrow, but these are all things that Qantas would do if they were in Emirates' shoes, so to speak. It appears that Qantas may now become the socks to Emirates shoes.

The gains to Qantas will be enormous if the relationship goes ahead. Qantas shareholders should be hi-fiving each other."


If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?

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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:41 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):

Hmm, he has a massively idealistic perspective IMO. I could spend all day picking holes in that article...

Reading through it actually affirms my opinion -- the only benefits to EK that are mentioned are (a) air rights (which really aren't an issue in this country for EK) and (b) this idea of getting rid of a 'whinger' (which seems a ludicrous argument to me, given the attitude QF faces from the federal government).

There seems to be a lot of benefits for QF, while EK gets very little. QF has already conceded two daily flights to Europe and EK still has space to expand in Australia (ie ADL, further rights to fly to 'regional' airports') without QF.

Believe me, I'd love to see it. My international travel is basically QF and EK, and being able to funnel all my points to QFF would be excellent. But I don't understand why EK would jump into something like this when they really don't need to.

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?

For QF, perhaps. I'm not sure that's a phrase that I'd associate with EK though...

[Edited 2012-07-26 02:49:57]
 
mikey72
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:00 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 31):
But I don't understand why EK would jump into something like this when they really don't need to.

On the other hand if it is a positive move for them however much a small one then why not ?
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:26 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 13):
Also QF wouldn't be able to route many of its flight into DXB instead of SIN. The A330's QF uses into SIN from PER, ADL, CNS and other places can't make it to DXB. Realistically the only thing you'll see in DXB, if it happens, are QF A380's.

QF don't fly CNS-SIN. But they do fly A330-300's from BNE when the 744 isn't doing the route.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:46 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 31):
I could spend all day picking holes in that article...

I'm sure. I could, too, But - why?

I do think he's right - it does remove, or neutralise, a whinger.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 31):
There seems to be a lot of benefits for QF, while EK gets very little.

Oh. I think Emirates gets quite a lot out of it.

Apart form anything else, it gives them intra-Australia, it gives them Oceania and seamless round the world connections. It gives them increased Australian - and potentially some Asian - feed to boost the network, especially to Europe.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 31):
For QF, perhaps. I'm not sure that's a phrase that I'd associate with EK though...

I wasn't thinking of Emirates.

mariner

[Edited 2012-07-26 04:16:34]
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mdavies06
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:49 am

I don't know if it's just me but with all the talks about BA getting in bed with QR (re joining OW) and QF talking to EK, I am thinking that perhaps BA and QF are working together to get EK and QR to each put the best deal on the table. I can't imagine BA and QF acting independently on this - it has to be an airline which both BA and QF are happy with.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
Also QF wouldn't be able to route many of its flight into DXB instead of SIN. The A330's QF uses into SIN from PER, ADL, CNS and other places can't make it to DXB.

I'm surprised the A330 can't make PER-DXB - or is that Qantas specific aircraft?

Hmm maybe this says both remaining LHR flights will go via DXB giving MEL/SYD-DXB daily A380s through to LHR with BNE-DXB on a 744 and PER-DXB a 332 not sure they would probably leave ADL to EK and maybe DRW aswell which JQ currently do CNS-DRW-SIN? SIN then gets A330s from SYD, MEL, BNE terminators.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting smbukas (Reply 27):
Just landed in FRA from QF5 SIN-FRA. I could say load factor was about 40% in business and 70% in economy. What is interesting, as flight was 2 hours late, crew announced rebookings for passengers. I was very surprised that so many passengers had onward connections with Lufthansa. As those airlines do not codeshare the flight, it should be very expensive for QF to issue simple interline tickets on LH meaning general seat yield on QF flight is low.

Some weeks ago I was looking for flights from FRA to Down Under on LH's webpage. Besides LH via SIN there was a connection with QF on offer. I just checked that again, if I am looking for FRA-MEL in October besides LH/SQ there is a connection with JQ via SIN. Its more expensive and fully flexible in Y only.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 35):
I don't know if it's just me but with all the talks about BA getting in bed with QR (re joining OW) and QF talking to EK, I am thinking that perhaps BA and QF are working together to get EK and QR to each put the best deal on the table. I can't imagine BA and QF acting independently on this - it has to be an airline which both BA and QF are happy with.

BINGO!!! Give that man a prize!
The idea of QF/BA killing an alliance that is nearly 80 years old is very unlikely. They have cooperated in so many areas over that time that I would not be surprised if they are doing this. They can still get deeply involved with a ME/Gulf carrier, in fact they could bring them into the JSA. Given the level of competition on the Kangaroo route I doubt either the Australian or UK/EU authorities would have a problem with it.
I would think QR over EK, but who knows.

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ZuluAlpha
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting smbukas (Reply 27):
Anyway, despite global strategy of QF they should do something with their route to FRA as in current environment such ultra long flights to no-partner territory do not make much sense.

You will find that most will agree with you on this matter, that is why there is the ongoing rumour that QF will be moving to BER (Brandenburg) when / if it eventually opens to connect with AB and their extensive network within Europe.
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
I'm surprised the A330 can't make PER-DXB - or is that Qantas specific aircraft?

Believe its an issue of A332 v. A333.
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mogandoCI
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:26 pm

If QF really kills FRA I'd love to hear how the QF loyalists spin it. Just 1 or 2 years ago we constantly hear the "FRA is a cash cow, QF would NEVER kill it off" rhetoric ......

EZE gone, partially replaced. They should launch GRU once TAM is officially onboard.
SFO gone, partially replaced.
HKG/BKK same-airline through flights gone.
AKL-LAX gone.
BOM tag gone.
FRA rumored.

Given QF's recent track record, god knows how long JNB would last.
 
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 41):
EZE gone, partially replaced. They should launch GRU once TAM is officially onboard.SFO gone, partially replaced.HKG/BKK same-airline through flights gone.AKL-LAX gone.BOM tag gone.FRA rumored.

Many of these destinations were from times before the alliances changed the airlines route maps. Santiago replacing EZE with the LAN hub is a no-brainer. SFO is a city Qantas has had a long presence in since they first to the USA as Commonwealth Pacific Airways, tradition and United as the hub airline don't make money for QF.

FRA would be sad to see go but as things stand would it make sense to continue ? AS Qantas alone probably not, but Emirates has a frequency problem to Germany. What if QF operated from Sydney to Dubai and on the FRA, in Dubai QF could get feed from Emirates and give Emirates an extra frequency to FRA they so need. This may work folks !!!
 
Malayil
Posts: 110
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:19 pm

What are EK's biggest markets? India, UK and Australia in that order? What about after that? Germany, Italy, the US?
 
fraspotter
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:07 pm

Could this maybe be (at least partially) due to the restrictions in regards to operating hours at FRA? I've heard on here a few times that QF has on several occasions fallen victim to the cut off due to their late departure time and had to wait until the next day to take off.
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
n729pa
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 22):
QF isn't really that close with any airline part of oneWorld. Compared to AA/BA/IB/JL, then UA/AC/LH in *A; and last but not least DL/AF/KL/AZ.

Aren't QF the sponsor for MH joining One World in Q1/2 2013?

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 3):
Two weeks ago, it was QF and QR forming an 'alliance'...

Personally IMO I think it's a bit of a headline story. If you are trying to set up a new deal, it never hurts to let others know that you are in discussion with other third parties too. It can back fire granted, but if QR are sticking on a few points, sometimes the threat of someone picking up your deal instead and be enough to move things along a bit shall we say.
 
boeing773er
Posts: 478
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 28):

I believe they could retain that flight, it is one of the most important flights they have.

It is also one of those routes I feel like they would operate (even at a loss) just because of the prestige the Kangaroo Route had/has.
Work Hard, Fly Right.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 22):
QF's biggest problem with leaving oneWorld would be losing feed in LAX from AA, and possibly not having BA behind them in LHR.

I'm sure that they could work out a deal with AS to still get some good feed at LAX. AA might want to continue codesharing with QF to Australia anyway.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 42):
SFO is a city Qantas has had a long presence in since they first to the USA as Commonwealth Pacific Airways, tradition and United as the hub airline don't make money for QF.

If you believe most of the other posters, SFO was actually a consistently profitable route ... who knows where the truth is

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 42):
Many of these destinations were from times before the alliances changed the airlines route maps. Santiago replacing EZE with the LAN hub is a no-brainer.

Actually too many people over-value hub-to-hub. Some even suggested moving SYD-SIN-FRA to SYD-SIN-BER.
 
qf002
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RE: Reports QF To Ditch FRA & Codeshare With EK

Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
I do think he's right - it does remove, or neutralise, a whinger.

By that logic, EK should be focusing their efforts on forging alliances with AC, LH, AI etc long before they turn their focus to QF. QF does not pose much of a threat to EK's plans for Australia, nor have they proven to be much of a barrier in the past.

The Australian government has been extremely liberal with providing rights to UAE airlines, and has shown no desire to 'protect' QF in the same way as Canada and Germany, for example.

There really is not threat to EK, as clearly demonstrated by QF's whinging being met with increased EK, SQ, CX etc service.

Quoting mariner (Reply 34):
Apart form anything else, it gives them inter-Australia, it gives them Oceania and seamless round the world connections. It gives them increased Australian - and potentially some Asian - feed to boost the network, especially to Europe.

I'm not sure what the value of an inter-Australia network would be for EK, and they can access 90% of the Australian population with their own services (especially true once their ADL flights start).

The issue I see is that a tie up would see EK sharing their success with QF. Why would EK want to allow the continued survival of one of their biggest competitors on a strongly performing route when they can achieve the same outcomes by themselves, without having the share the spoils?

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 42):
What if QF operated from Sydney to Dubai and on the FRA, in Dubai QF could get feed from Emirates and give Emirates an extra frequency to FRA they so need. This may work folks !!!

Would QF be able to pick up local traffic on the DXB-FRA leg? If so, then it could work quite well.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 46):
It is also one of those routes I feel like they would operate (even at a loss) just because of the prestige the Kangaroo Route had/has.

Loss making commercial airlines cannot afford to maintain routes at a loss simply for the prestige. If the flights to Europe don't make money, then they won't fly them.

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