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AC853
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When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:40 pm

Does anyone know when British Airways will take delivery of their first Airbus 380 and what routes will it first fly on?
 
G500
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:47 pm

Is LAX still their first destination in North America?

I read somewhere they were looking at JNB, NRT and LAX as their A380 "launch destinations"
 
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OA260
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:03 am

I heard HKG LAX BJS SIN JFK . They should get the first A380 in March 2013 with training flights LHR-MAD similar to
what AF did CDG-LHR.
 
brilondon
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:05 am

AFAIK it will be next spring, but the recent issues with the wing may make this a little optimistic.

[Edited 2012-07-29 17:06:17]
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G500
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
I heard HKG LAX BJS SIN JFK .

maybe you're right, I think I mixed up NRT with HKG... Hong Kong makes more sense
 
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OA260
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 4):

Well thats just what I heard and read so dont rule out any Asian destination yet it could be on the list , I guess they all make sense but Im really interested in the training flights   I did the AF ones and they were really nice without having to do the longhaul . Maybe time to start racking up the AVIOS  
 
n729pa
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:24 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
Is LAX still their first destination in North America?

I've heard it's JFK, HKG, PEK and SIN in that order initially - how accurate that is I don't know but it's also quoted on A380flights.net too

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
They should get the first A380 in March 2013 with training flights LHR-MAD similar to
what AF did CDG-LHR.

Great news I was hoping this might be the case, let's hope BA do a similiar promotional fare set up that AF did to encourage passengers to fly on it, pointless doing it if it's half empty. That's made my day and will be something to look forward to and make the dreary winter months pass!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:02 am

Quoting n729pa (Reply 6):
Great news I was hoping this might be the case

Indeed. It'll be great if they do.

I thoroughly enjoyed my ultra-cheap AF LHR-CDG-AF 380 flights, especially as I got upgraded to first class from the purser who is saw on A.net that I was flying the machine on that specific day. Very kind fellow.
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AirbusA6
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:06 am

Yes, a short break to Madrid next spring sounds good!

Quoting n729pa (Reply 6):
I've heard it's JFK, HKG, PEK and SIN in that order initially - how accurate that is I don't know but it's also quoted on A380flights.net too

The 3 Asian destinations seem more obvious places than JFK, especially as many of their rivals are already operating A380s from SIN. JFK may be BA's flagship route, but as most of the flights will still be 744/777 operated, someone expecting an A380 is likely to be disappointed?
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jumpjets
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:27 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 8):
The 3 Asian destinations seem more obvious places than JFK

Given that BA are only scheduled to take 3 A380s next year it would seem that unless they only operate a route with A380s once or twice a week they wouldn't be able to dip into more than one Asian destination in the short term. So maybe a daily JFK rotation to start with while they have just one A380; then introduce the second to asia [or maybe LAX] 3 times a week; and then when they are up to 3 they could probably/possibly do one Asian/LAX and one JFK rotation per day.

If they are going to operate more than a handful of A380 routes I think they need really to be topping up their order asap.
 
qf002
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:57 am

My bet -- BA25/26 to HKG (to supplement BA27/28 77W and including the cancellation of the 3 weekly BA21/22 service) and then a North American service (but probably not JFK). There's a whole pile of North American cities that could justify a BA A380.

Having said that, I fully expect to see them move these planes a bit as they build up the fleet, testing different things out before they settle on the best cities to see more permanent service (as they have with the 77W).
 
vv701
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:18 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 6):
I was hoping this might be the case, let's hope BA do a similiar promotional fare set up that AF did to encourage passengers to fly on it, pointless doing it if it's half empty.

The purpose of short haul training flights on new types of long haul aircraft is to maximise the number of complete rotations operated by the flight crews being trained and to minimise the cost per training rotation.

The presence or otherwise of fare-paying passengers or the use of promotional fares to help fill an excessively large aircraft for the service it is operating is a secondary consideration.

.
 
spiritair97
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 8):

Why do you say that JFK is less obvious than the 3 Asian destinations? You even stated that it is their flagship route, and to an airport with connections all over the place on AA! If you ask me, JFK is the MOST obvious launch destination.

Also, not that many people will be disappointed with the a380. Not all people all geeks like us   . Most people just want to get to their destination and don't care whether it is a 767, 777, 747, a319LR, a380, etc. They just care that it flies. There will, however, be a few people in nostalgia that will be upset about the a380 being put on the route, but BA won't base their decision on them (us).
 
G500
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:42 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 12):
If you ask me, JFK is the MOST obvious launch destination.

JFK is a frequency market for BA. There is so much traffic between NYC and London that BA is better off offering more flights with 777/747 than putting the A380 on that route.

When is all set and done, as far as the U.S goes, LAX, JFK and probably MIA will see A380 flights, its only logical
 
jfk777
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 13):
JFK is a frequency market for BA. There is so much traffic between NYC and London that BA is better off offering more flights with 777/747 than putting the A380 on that route.

JFK is a frequency and large plane route, I don't believe for one second you can replace 6 744 with 4 A380's but why not one or two A380 with 4 744 or 777 or 787's ? JFK should have A380 service and will since BA will probably launch a Club or First upgrade with their A380's. And it only needs one A380 per daily round trip.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:05 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
The presence or otherwise of fare-paying passengers or the use of promotional fares to help fill an excessively large aircraft for the service it is operating is a secondary consideration.

AF sold heavily discounted fares on the CDG-LHR route because having a mostly full cabin, in all classes, was considered integral to the training process.

However I doubt that BA/IB would need to offer discounted fares to fill an A380 between LHR and MAD. They already have two daily BA 767-300s on the route and a (IIRC weekday only ) A340-300/600 service by IB. Considering the likely seat count on BA's A380s, it won't be that much of a capacity increase to replace a few A346 rotations with it.


Dan  
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qf002
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:21 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 12):
If you ask me, JFK is the MOST obvious launch destination.

Biggest issue with replacing Hi-J 744's is the influx of W/Y seats that this would cause. No doubt they can fill any extra 20-30 J seats per day in the peak, but that doesn't mean that they can fill an extra 150-200 W/Y seats a day in each direction without diluting yields significantly.

The hi-J 744's are good for this route because there are so few W/Y seats for BA to fill. They provide the premium capacity that is needed without overdoing the W/Y capacity, also bearing in mind that AA is increasing Y capacity with their 77W.

It would also be tricky to schedule one aircraft to cover a peak service in both directions. BA would end up having to fly the larger plane on a weaker service in one direction, which undermines the point of the aircraft.

And BA is better of using their most efficient aircraft on their longer sectors to take advantage of the increased efficiency.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
A will probably launch a Club or First upgrade with their A380's. And it only needs one A380 per daily round trip.

F/J will be exactly the same as the existing Hi-J 744's.. The only difference will be the new IFE system (same as what is in the 77W).
 
vv701
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 15):
AF sold heavily discounted fares on the CDG-LHR route because having a mostly full cabin, in all classes, was considered integral to the training process.

What aspects of training did AF have in mind?

I assume not cabin service. With 538 seats on an AF 380 and an elapsed actual flight time of around 28 to 30 minutes between CDG and LHR - even less with the seat belt signs switched off - cabin service would require serving passengers at a rate of above 20 a minute. This would in no way be representative of the training required for cabin crew on a long haul flight.

I also assume that it was not training for the boarding and disembarkation of passengers. This could be most efficiently and economically achieved without any flight between these two activities. This would equally apply to baggage handling.
 
qf002
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:32 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
What aspects of training did AF have in mind?

Familiarisation for the Flight Crew and (more specifically) ground handlers at CDG I imagine. It's no good throwing the plane immediately into a tight long haul schedule if the ground crew aren't familiar with how to load the plane, maintain it between turns etc. A plane full of bags, catering etc is testing the abilities of ground crews to prepare her, and a plane full of mess after the flight tests cleaning teams etc.

They might also have been testing the IFE system, gathering their own data on performance, getting a feel for the balance of the fully loaded aircraft and so on.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
I also assume that it was not training for the boarding and disembarkation of passengers. This could be most efficiently and economically achieved without any flight between these two activities. This would equally apply to baggage handling.

Actually it was considered useful to gain experience with ground handling. They appeared to want as 'real' a scenario as possible.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
What aspects of training did AF have in mind?

I'm afraid I didn't ask in detail.


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chrisnh
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 10):
There's a whole pile of North American cities that could justify a BA A380.

Well, I honestly don't think it's a 'whole pile.' Like other posters have said, many NA cities opt for frequency. While you could take a couple 777s and squash them into one A380, I suspect customers would prefer the 777s spaced several hours apart. Also, it's not much fun to be disgorged from an A380 at Heathrow at Bleary-O'Clock along with a bunch of other aircraft from various U.S. cities. With a hoard like that the day is half over and you still haven't managed to waddle through customs.
 
boeing773er
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 9):
If they are going to operate more than a handful of A380 routes I think they need really to be topping up their order asap.

I was hoping I wasn't the only one who thought that. They actually need to announce a whole bunch of orders in my personal opinion, not just A380's. They have 55 (give or take a few) 747's; still active in their fleet. They have 12 A380's, and 4 more 773ER's on order, so 16 VLA's on order to replace more than 55 VLA's. I know they have plans of operating the 747's for a bit more time, but most of the VLA's besides the 747-8 have huge backlogs. So I don't know if they are waiting for the new 777 or what, but they need to be a bit more proactive with their fleet orders.

Also, I am sure they can use some more 787 orders. They have enough to replace 763s but they should be getting some more for growth, these would be perfect to open some more international routes out of MAN or LGW.

Sorry, I know we were talking about the A380's but I kinda got off topic.
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PlymSpotter
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 21):
So I don't know if they are waiting for the new 777 or what, but they need to be a bit more proactive with their fleet orders.

More A380s are a given - you only have to look at the number of A380 stands at LHR T5 to see that.

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 21):
I know they have plans of operating the 747's for a bit more time, but most of the VLA's besides the 747-8 have huge backlogs.

I think the majority of their 747s are from the late 90s - these machines have a good ten years left with BA.


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speedmarque
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:20 pm

The MAD will be sold to Euro 767 loads and all on one deck. The company are asking CAA to operate it with less than minimum crew and ignore one whole deck.

[Edited 2012-07-30 11:27:04]
 
speedbrds
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:11 pm

Another good reason for me to fly to London.
 
qf002
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:50 am

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 20):

The A380 allows them to concentrate supply at peak periods (ie when the most people want to travel), offering additional frequencies with smaller aircraft outside these periods (ie the 77E). I'm sure that BA finds certain services are busier than others on routes with multiple daily 744 frequencies -- having this extra size bracket gives them the flexibility to move their supply around throughout the day without loosing the all important frequency. A daily A380 + 77E combo would supply a very similar number of seats to 2 daily low-J 744's.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 22):
I think the majority of their 747s are from the late 90s - these machines have a good ten years left with BA.

Didn't they say something about wanting to retire these planes by 2017 or 2019 or something crazy like that? I might be getting things mixed up in my head here.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:07 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 12):
Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 8):


Why do you say that JFK is less obvious than the 3 Asian destinations? You even stated that it is their flagship route, and to an airport with connections all over the place on AA! If you ask me, JFK is the MOST obvious launch destination.

Also, not that many people will be disappointed with the a380. Not all people all geeks like us . Most people just want to get to their destination and don't care whether it is a 767, 777, 747, a319LR, a380, etc. They just care that it flies. There will, however, be a few people in nostalgia that will be upset about the a380 being put on the route, but BA won't base their decision on them (us).

Actually I said that passengers would be disappointed if they DIDN't get an A380! Most airlines (running into LHR) have heavily advertised the fact that they are useing the A380, as it's a selling point for them, and many passengers DO know the difference. If only one flight out of 8(?) between LHR and JFK is A380 operated, then there's little scope for promotion, as most passengers won't get to use it.
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FoxBravo
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:37 pm

While I agree that JFK would seem a logical destination, as a practical matter does anyone know if an A380 can actually fit at T7? It's awfully cramped, and I believe all of the gates have only a single jetway--not a good setup for A380 boarding even if it's physically possible to park one there.
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fcogafa
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 15):
They already have two daily BA 767-300s on the route and a (IIRC weekday only ) A340-300/600 service by IB. Considering the likely seat count on BA's A380s, it won't be that much of a capacity increase to replace a few A346 rotations with it.

As I understand it (from pilot sources) the A340s are largely on the route as freighters and the pax count is around A320 levels.
 
rutankrd
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 26):
If only one flight out of 8(?) between LHR and JFK is A380 operated, then there's little scope for promotion, as most passengers won't get to use it

And promotion reflects reality does it ?

How many of BA customers travel First compared to Y, yet which is used for promotions.

Same can be said for the competition.
 
rutankrd
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 29):
And promotion reflects reality does it ?

How many of BA customers travel First compared to Y, yet which is used for promotions.

Same can be said for the competition.

There is always the legalese. No guarantee..... Reserve the right to........... etc...
 
Speedbird2155
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 27):
as a practical matter does anyone know if an A380 can actually fit at T7? It's awfully cramped, and I believe all of the gates have only a single jetway--not a good setup for A380 boarding even if it's physically possible to park one there.

This is what everyone seems to ignore. JFK T7 is not A380 ready and has a very tight ramp where the aircraft are already very close. I suspect that there are no A380 capable ramp spaces, not to mention the issue of the jetways.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: When Does BA Receive Their First 380?

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 25):

Didn't they say something about wanting to retire these planes by 2017 or 2019 or something crazy like that? I might be getting things mixed up in my head here.

They can do that if they want, but they'll have to be a much smaller airline, at least by ASMs. There isn't anything like enough aircraft on order to backfill all that capacity so quickly.
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