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United_fan
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FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:43 am

Actually they started yesterday. It was really nice to see a heavy 3 holer here! I have never seen a DC-10 here in the 40 years I have been here. I spoke with someone and they said it was here for training and it would be coming in 2 or 3 days a week. Nice to see some variety other than the A300!
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chrisnh
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:38 pm

Sounds like what they did here at Manchester, NH many years ago. Our station migrated from 727s to the A310, then to the A300, and now to the MD-10. The only A300 is an Indianapolis-Manchester-Hartford (3719) run during weekdays.

Our MD-10s come through twice a day from Memphis, as I'm sure yours will.

Our lift is needed for two main reasons. First, much of northern New England's freight is fed to and from MHT using Caravans. Only PWM has its own flight. So MHT is a mini hub of sorts. Second, FedEx has the USPS contract, so mail consumes a fair bit of the capacity. But that contract is at risk, so it will be interesting to see whether UPS wrests that away from them next year.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:05 pm

Our station started out with a 727-100,then a -200. Around 2000 we got the A310 (our first regular heavy) then the A300. We've been getthing the A300 for probably 5-7 years with a 727 added around Christmas. I'm excited to see the MD-10 (and get some nice pics)! I thought we'de see a 757 before a -10,though.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:34 pm

I think the containers carried by the A300 and the MD-10 are interchangeable, although not sure. So it would make sense to go from the A300 to the MD-10 since your ramp has all of the same-sized containers. Going to a 757 means a whole sea-change of containers.

In my recollection we have had one MD-11 substitution here...ever.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:16 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 3):
I think the containers carried by the A300 and the MD-10 are interchangeable



I was wondering if the MD-10 carries more freight than the A300? Does ROC have a real need for the -10 or are the A300's being deployed elsewhere?

I know that seeing a FX MD10 is not a big deal for people who live in bigger cities,but seeing it here is a thrill (lame,I know). I wonder what was the last year ROC saw a DC-10? I know AA used them in the early 70's from LGA. We got a WO MD11 last July operating a troop charter,and a Kalita L1011 back in Christmas '97. Just nice to see the heavy metal instead of the endless CR2/Dash 8's and E145's.

[Edited 2012-07-30 11:25:59]
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:10 pm

Here are some 'capacity' figures directly from a FedEx document. These numbers are defined by them as 'Maximum Operational Revenue Payload:'

(in ascending order)

727-200...38,200
757...........45,800
A310........61,900
A300........85,600
MD-10......113,100

Interestingly, their 777s have a stated capacity of 112,000, but of course it is the range they care about most.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 3):
I think the containers carried by the A300 and the MD-10 are interchangeable, although not sure. So it would make sense to go from the A300 to the MD-10 since your ramp has all of the same-sized containers. Going to a 757 means a whole sea-change of containers.

They are interchangeable, for now. However, the MD10 and Airbus are configured to take the same containers as the 727/757 if need be. There are multiple lock rows on the plane for any configuration necessary.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 4):
I was wondering if the MD-10 carries more freight than the A300? Does ROC have a real need for the -10 or are the A300's being deployed elsewhere?

The MD10 can carry MUCH more freight than the A300. The company is undergoing a serious audit of routes and system right now, I would not be surprised to see aircraft types moving around.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 5):
Interestingly, their 777s have a stated capacity of 112,000, but of course it is the range they care about most.

Strange, as the usable volume of the 777 is vastly more than the MD10 - it can carry something like eight more AMJ containers topside than the MD10 can.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 6):
The company is undergoing a serious audit of routes and system right now, I would not be surprised to see aircraft types moving around.

Thanks,I imagine they would not bring it here and train staff if it wasn't going to stick around . Looking forward to taking many pix of the -10's before they're gone.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:07 pm

You have to be nimble if you want photographs; once we get into the fall/winter, these birds come and go before the sun comes up and after it goes down.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 8):
You have to be nimble if you want photographs; once we get into the fall/winter, these birds come and go before the sun comes up and after it goes down.

True , flight 957 comes in around 18:45 hours.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:07 pm

I think the last time ROC saw a large heavy was when the USAF did some touch-n-go's with C5's back in the mid 90's.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 10):
I think the last time ROC saw a large heavy was when the USAF did some touch-n-go's with C5's back in the mid 90's.

Well,we did get Air Force One (747) in '05 and '06.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 1):

PVD gets a daily 757 as well.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:30 pm

Can the DC10 really be labelled MD10? what about the DC9 and 8 then?
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 13):

Yes, it can be labeled an MD10. Certain mods were made to the aircraft, which made it an MD10.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:24 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 13):
Can the DC10 really be labelled MD10? what about the DC9 and 8 then?

The MD-10 is a DC-10 that underwent a series of modifications including upgrades of the cockpit to MD-11 common flight deck (common aircraft type) and the ability to eliminate the flight engineer's position.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:32 am

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 15):
The MD-10 is a DC-10 that underwent a series of modifications including upgrades of the cockpit to MD-11 common flight deck (common aircraft type) and the ability to eliminate the flight engineer's position.

Right. It's my understanding that there's no outward distinction to the 'MD-10.' The changes are all 'indoors.'

Indeed, FlightAware started to show the FedEx 'MD-10' designation before reverting back to the DC-10 label.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:18 pm

So,I guess ROC needs MD-10 capacity,as BUF has an A310 and SYR has an A300. Kind of surprising,I figured we would be down graded to a 757. But that's just the pecimist in me.

[Edited 2012-07-31 08:07:15]
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:38 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 1):
Our lift is needed for two main reasons. First, much of northern New England's freight is fed to and from MHT using Caravans. Only PWM has its own flight. So MHT is a mini hub of sorts.

Just a small correction - in addition to PWM, BTV also has it's own flight - a 727 that travels EWR-SYR-BTV most days of the week but occasionally flies via PWM. FX feeds the smaller airports in VT (like RUT) from Albany using Caravans.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:39 pm

Also, ACK and MVY are fed through PVD with the caravans, as well as an occasional Caravan to EWR.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:29 pm

Glad to hear my home airport is getting an MD-10 at last! I'll try to get pictures when I'm there, too. The market must be good, despite Kodak's difficulties.

During one of my trips last year, a KC-10 was doing low passes at ROC. Unfortunately I only could get one picture of a plane pulling away, not close by.

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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 7):
Thanks,I imagine they would not bring it here and train staff if it wasn't going to stick around . Looking forward to taking many pix of the -10's before they're gone.

Well, not necessarily....while I sense this may be a more permanent move, FX has been known to train certain ramps on an aircraft "just in case." Last year, they brought an Airbus into MSP, which does not get an Airbus except in rare cases of substitution, just so the crew could be trained on it for such an occasion. It cost a pretty penny to take a plane out of service for the training, and the ramp only saw two or three of the type in the entire subsequent year. It was necessary - the flying spare for the upper midwest region is an A300 out of ATW.

Quoting United_fan (Reply 17):
So,I guess ROC needs MD-10 capacity,as BUF has an A310 and SYR has an A300. Kind of surprising,I figured we would be down graded to a 757. But that's just the pecimist in me.

There is room for pessimism here, if you are looking for the cloud behind the silver lining. It's quite possible that FX could decide to downgrade SYR to A310 and send that extra freight to ROC instead, to be trucked from ROC to SYR. Those are the types of changes FX is looking at right now and which could be a reason to upgrade a flight to ROC. Personally I think it's just FX deciding that ROC will be responsible for a larger area encroaching on BUF, and ROC is more centrally located than BUF to the western New York markets.

However, by looking at a map of New York, ROC seems to be in the most expendable location, and by seeing an upgrade of equipment, that tells me the state of New York is safe from any threat of ramp closure.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:12 pm

BUF is closer to ROC than SYR. Let's hope it's a mix of A300/MD-10. The A300 was coming in as I went to work this AM.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:42 pm

I think the 'flying spare' ('sweep flight') for New England is Portland's 757, which I would imagine goes out less-than-full just so it has the capacity to drop into an airport and pick up stranded freight.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 20):
Glad to hear my home airport is getting an MD-10 at last! I'll try to get pictures when I'm there, too. The market must be good, despite Kodak's difficulties.

She looked sweet with that #2 engine towering up as yiou drive on Scottsville Road.Looks like it's going to do the usual 967 flight this evening.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:48 pm

Looking ahead at the schedules, ROC's gain may be MHT's pain. I see that our morning MEM-MHT-MEM flight is an MD-10 but our evening one seems to be an A300 now. I can't look too far in advance, and sometimes the A300 will show up for a couple consecutive days while an MD-10 is being serviced.

I'll have to monitor this one.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:56 pm

It appears as though that's what is happening: MHT has lost one of its two daily MD-10s to ROC. Using their 'jumpseat finder' web page, I can see several days in advance. We have an evening A300 now while you get the MD-10.

The lone exception seems to be tomorrow (Friday the 3rd) when our evening flight is the MD-10 and yours is the A300. But there seems to be a correlation between your schedule and ours.

[Edited 2012-08-02 11:57:40]
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 16):
It's my understanding that there's no outward distinction to the 'MD-10.' The changes are all 'indoors.'

The easy giveaway for me is not winglets, size of control surfaces, landing gear, etc. From a distance, the cowl of #2 on the MD-11 looks like that on the DC-10-40 (done that way to accommodate the PW engine on the D10). I love seeing the FX tails when I drive into FLL. If I recall, the MD10 conversions are all DC10-30 aircraft with GE engines.

[Edited 2012-08-02 12:07:53]
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:19 pm

Yes, the MD-11 is an easy spot thanks to the squared-off tail-cone (a la the 777).
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 1):
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 1):
Sounds like what they did here at Manchester, NH many years ago. Our station migrated from 727s to the A310, then to the A300, and now to the MD-10. The only A300 is an Indianapolis-Manchester-Hartford (3719) run during weekdays.

Would be great if BDL got a MD10 again. We had it for a very short time, only a few months from MEM-BDL-MEM, then they dropped it back again. I think that was FX (367), and went back to A300. All A300 and B752's here at BDL, and 1 CC (Capital Cargo) 727, which will soon be a 757.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 26):
finder' web page, I can see several days in advance. We have an evening A300 now while you get the MD-10.

Sorry you guys are losing one! At least you still have an MD-10, and the second flight is still a jumbo. For ROC, our first scheduled 3-hole jumbo since 1973 is a happy development. (If there's been another scheduled 3-hole jumbo since then, I'd be happy to be corrected. I just know of charters and Christmas-time cargo flights.)

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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:49 pm

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 27):
If I recall, the MD10 conversions are all DC10-30 aircraft with GE engines.

They are -30s and -10s. FX actually operates more MD10-10 than they do MD10-30.

You guys up in the Northeast may be in the right size of markets to see the 767 when it comes out next year, if right now you are juggling the Airbus and MD10.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 31):
FX actually operates more MD10-10 than they do MD10-30.

I didn't know that - thanks! Thats kind of interesting - aren't the -10's generally earlier builds?
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:34 am

Generally speaking, yes, and the 30 can also carry more weight, although not more volume.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:17 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 30):
For ROC, our first scheduled 3-hole jumbo since 1973 is a happy development. (If there's been another scheduled 3-hole jumbo since then, I'd be happy to be corrected. I just know of charters and Christmas-time cargo flights.)

I figured it was early 70's , when AA brought them in . I went to see it take off last night,and those GE CF6's sounded swweeetttt! Rotated around 6,000' . The Cappy 727 that came in not long after sounded equally nice!
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:28 am

Looks like its going to be 3 evenings a week . The AM flights are still the A300. I imagine the afternoon flight brings 2 day freight and the US Mail. It obviously takes that days pickups back to MEM.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1479/image1sq.jpg


[Edited 2012-08-07 17:40:34]

[Edited 2012-08-07 17:42:06]
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:52 am

Quoting United_fan (Reply 35):
Looks like its going to be 3 evenings a week . The AM flights are still the A300. I imagine the afternoon flight brings 2 day freight and the US Mail. It obviously takes that days pickups back to MEM.

You got it.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:20 am

Great photo! Good to see the three-holer back in town!
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 37):
Good to see the three-holer back in town!

It comes in Tues,Wed and Thursday around 6:45. Flight # 957.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:20 pm

MHT is a mirror image of ROC. Your evening switched from A300 to MD-10; ours went the other way. Our AM flight is an MD-10. The weekday A300 from IND remains as-is. Saturday we get 2x MD-10s; Sunday evening we get 1.

One big unknown is the U.S. mail contract, which is up for bid. If that goes to UPS, that will impact the capacity that each of our stations get from both carriers.
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 39):
One big unknown is the U.S. mail contract, which is up for bid. If that goes to UPS, that will impact the capacity that each of our stations get from both carriers.

I hope FX keeps the mail contract . We don't get 5X in ROC,all comes from BUF.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:50 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 40):
I hope FX keeps the mail contract . We don't get 5X in ROC,all comes from BUF.

The current contract runs through September 2013, so 13 months away.

Here's an article on the subject:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...tial-loss-us-postal-service-busin/
 
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:02 pm

Like I said ,I hope we keep the -10 . It's kinda neat to have a scheduled heavy 3-holer in almost 40 years.
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RE: FX To Start MD10 Service To ROC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:51 pm

Here's N559FE at MHT yesterday morning, crossing the bridge to Runway 6 on her way back to MEM

Big version: Width: 432 Height: 243 File size: 72kb
N559FE at Manchester morning of August 16, 2012


[Edited 2012-08-17 14:52:20]

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