User avatar
ramprat74
Topic Author
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:01 am

From the Employee's website

"We notified Aer Lingus last week of our intent to exercise our right to terminate the enhanced code share on Aug. 1 for service between IAD and MAD (Madrid, Spain). The termination takes effect 90 days after the notification, so the flights will continue through the end of October. We will maintain our other codeshare flights with Aer Lingus, and we will continue to serve MAD via EWR."
 
strfyr51
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:08 am

Well that saved THAT sticking point with the Pilots.. Good Move!!
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:23 am

There was no need for the merged entity to continue this highly contentious outsourced operation. It was instituted as a clever way around PMUA's policy that ALL long haul/intercontinental operations would be flown on premium-heavy 4 class (F/J/Y+/Y) widebody aircraft. The new UA can now reserve those 4 class birds for routes that actually support them, and utilize higher density 3 class (J/Y+/Y) aircraft - be they PMCO 752s/762s/764s/772s or newly refurbished PMUA 763 "ghetto birds", on lower-yielding long haul/intercontinental routes. We have already seen SFO-CDG make a comeback; this route was not viable when operated by a 4 class PMUA aircraft but is an attractive [resumption] opportunity given the availability of the higher density aircraft. I would not be surprised to see this route continue, perhaps after a seasonal break, on some form of UA metal like the refurbished "ghetto bird" 763. Or maybe with all of the economic turmoil in Spain they will simply serve MAD from EWR for now, and possibly reinstate IAD-MAD in the future when the situation there begins to improve...

On that note, I think there are many exciting possibilities for the new UA:

Most or all of the PMCO transpacific routes (IAH-NRT and EWR-NRT/HKG/PEK/PVG) upgraded to premium PMUA metal. The PMCO 772s (and the new 787s) could then be used for new or resumed transpacific routes like SFO-TPE/NGO/CAN, ORD-KIX/ICN, EWR-KIX/ICN, SFO-MEL/AKL, LAX-MEL/AKL, IAH-ICN/PEK/PVG/HKG, etc.

Additional PMCO transatlantic routes could be upgraded to premium PMUA metal, as has already happened on EWR-BRU/ZRH. I would think most or all flights into LHR and FRA could justify such service, not to mention EWR-TLV. PMCO birds could assume routes like ORD-CDG/AMS and IAD-FCO that really don't need premium 4 class service, and perhaps open up possibilities like IAD-BCN/MAD/MXP/TXL/LIS, ORD-DUB/DUS/MAD/BCN/BHX/GLA/MAN, SFO-AMS/BRU, LAX-CDG/FRA, etc.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
acelanzarote
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:52 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:05 am

So what will Aer Lingus do with the A330 I wonder?
from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
 
SaabFA71
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:17 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:43 am

Now that Aer Lingus has an A330 free they can start PHL-DUB!
I used all of my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
 
Eirules
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:58 am

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 3):
So what will Aer Lingus do with the A330 I wonder?
Quoting SaabFA71 (Reply 4):
Now that Aer Lingus has an A330 free they can start PHL-DUB!

Well EI have only just announced increased frequencies on DUB-ORD up from 7x weekly to 11x weekly and many people see DUB-SFO as a likely destination for the aircraft. Looks like the EI / UA relationship isnt exactly blooming
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1102
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:02 am

Quoting SaabFA71 (Reply 4):
Now that Aer Lingus has an A330 free they can start PHL-DUB!

I don't think any new routes are planned, but rather consolidate operations on existing routes such as the already announced extra ORD rotations.

EI won't start new long haul destinations unless it can be sure they can be profitable from day one.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 4451
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 5):
Well EI have only just announced increased frequencies on DUB-ORD up from 7x weekly to 11x weekly and many people see DUB-SFO as a likely destination for the aircraft. Looks like the EI / UA relationship isnt exactly blooming

Well actually it is, if ORD gets additional service and SFO new service (both cities being hubs with UA) UA said they will continue the rest of their code sharing with EI, UA gains additional service to ORD and new service to SFO, and looses something that most likely wasn't working.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
fun2fly
Posts: 894
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:44 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:43 am

Following in the footsteps of DUB and MAN, will we see IAD>MAD on UA metal in 2013? CO used to fly 777's and 2x757's in the summer to MAD. Same for BCN.
 
commavia
Posts: 9744
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:09 pm

While I don't see it happening, this seems like a perfect route for an AA 757 if United doesn't reenter the market.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 3709
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:47 pm

IAH!  I can dream, can I not?   
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
speedbrds
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:32 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:59 pm

That's too bad to hear. I took that flight last year. It was nice because the aircraft load was rather moderate and was nice to move about the a/c. However, it was a bit confusing when departing MAD to IAD as I was unsure what terminal/check-in counter since it was an Aer Lingus a/c and boarding at a United gate. I suppose my lack of familiarity with this concept hindered my ability to travel smoothly at that time.
 
a318
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:56 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:51 pm

I recently flew IAD-MAD and will be making the return in the middle of September. It is to my understanding that the flight crews are Dublin based and the cabin crews are IAD based and are not EU nationals. What happens with the cabin crews? Do they get furloughed? Do they have the opportunity to move to one of their EU bases given the circumstances? I'm not sure if there is any sort of contractual language regarding this issue.
Welcome aboard!
 
irishair98
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:10 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:52 pm

This is great news for me as UA could've used there own metal in this route not needing Aer Lingus to do it. With an A330 free'd up for EI 3 times a week with the free'd A330 being used 4 times a week. EI could open a new route with the other 3 days the new route would most likely be SFO
Dún Na Ngall Abú!
 
mcdu
Posts: 901
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 8):
Following in the footsteps of DUB and MAN, will we see IAD>MAD on UA metal in 2013? CO used to fly 777's and 2x757's in the summer to MAD. Same for BCN.

I think this withdrawal is a combination of factors. The biggest is probably the Spanish Debt/Eurozone crisis. The cooperative with UA really needed high load factors and fares to make this route viable. Neither has been the case this summer and with the winter slowdown coming the profits on this route were evasive.

Add to this the contentious issue of having EI crews flying UA flights and the animosity it created. The UA pilot union has been leveraging the "offshoring" of jobs and this flight was the prime example. It will also take some wind out fo the sails of UA-ALPA. I hope that perhaps this may indicate an agreement is near for the pilots that would restrict this type of operation. We are told scope was one of the few remaining items and this flight would be a victim of stronger scope.

Now if we can just eliminate hundreds of those RJ's and bring them back to the mainline.....

I don't think anyone at UA will miss having the green-machine operating from our gates/hauling our passengers. This experiment much like many of the Tilton initiatives has failed. Although I think up to recently there were posters on this forum espousing that EI had inked a lengthy contract with UA and that EI was going to get additional UA flying. Glad to see they were wrong.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 2768
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):
Well that saved THAT sticking point with the Pilots.. Good Move!!

I'm surprised it wasn't announced by the company as a direct piece of pilot negotiations as a PR thing.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 5):
Looks like the EI / UA relationship isnt exactly blooming

Actually it still is, which is part of why they are upping ORD service.

Quoting A318 (Reply 12):
and the cabin crews are IAD based and are not EU nationals.

Correct. The pursor on my flight lived in CLE and commuted to IAD for the flight. I'd assume they would now just commute to ORD instead.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4662
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):

No because the problem is still there, UA just isn't using it. You can expect the pilots union to make sure it doesn't happen twice.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
safetyDemo
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:39 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
Correct. The pursor on my flight lived in CLE and commuted to IAD for the flight. I'd assume they would now just commute to ORD instead.

The flight attendants are employed by Aer Lingus, and not United. I am assuming they will all be furloughed/laid off.

-safetyDemo
Please direct your attention to the flight attendants in the cabin...
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 2768
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:20 pm

Quoting safetyDemo (Reply 17):
The flight attendants are employed by Aer Lingus, and not United. I am assuming they will all be furloughed/laid off.

Yeah, I know they don't work for United. I'm thinking they could possibly be moved and based at ORD to work the extra frequencies. I don't know how EI handles that type of thing though, as I believe those FA's were hired just for the IAD-MAD flight originally.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
Quoting A318 (Reply 12):
and the cabin crews are IAD based and are not EU nationals.

Correct. The pursor on my flight lived in CLE and commuted to IAD for the flight. I'd assume they would now just commute to ORD instead.

I expect all the flight attendants to be laid off. EI was hiring relatively recently for the crew at IAD since it had high turnover.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
crj200faguy
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:07 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:58 pm

If I remember correctly the cabin crews weren't able to fly other EI flights. They were hired strictly for IAD and not part of the EI seniority list.
 
Eirules
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:17 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:37 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
Actually it still is, which is part of why they are upping ORD service.

Well one would think this is more EI looking after themselves rather than strengthening their relationship with UA. Since UA and CO merged, UA now fly DUB-EWR and SNN-EWR, the former CO routes, and have introduced IAD-DUB. None of these flights have an EI codeshare on them despite the EI flights to USA having UA numbers. Why? As for rumours of EI launching SFO, I would suspect this is more of a defensive move against UA, rather than one that will strengthen their relationship. Just my opinion however
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1102
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:30 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 21):
As for rumours of EI launching SFO, I would suspect this is more of a defensive move against UA, rather than one that will strengthen their relationship. Just my opinion however

I think these EI SFO rumours are just speculation by a few A-Netters, i'd be surprised if they re-started it with the economic situation still this bad.
They could fill it no problem, but they would need yields high enough to cover all the high costs associated with a route this long.
 
User avatar
Schweigend
Posts: 465
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:47 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:00 am

With this, United now serves Madrid from their Newark hub only. When the winter low season is over, I expect they will upgauge EWR-MAD from the current 1 or 2 757s daily to a 763/4 or 772.

The big question is, will they restart IAD-MAD in the Spring with 757 or 767 service? I hope they will.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 21):
Well one would think this is more EI looking after themselves rather than strengthening their relationship with UA.

Aer Lingus aren't in an alliance, so far as I know, and if they codeshare with UA, it is minimal. Unless EI joins *A, their flying from Dublin to ORD or SFO, etc., is in competition with UA. Maybe with Star's loss of bmi, EI will join up.  
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:38 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:56 am

yup flt atts were route specific. Yup..the announcement of the cessation came quickly after ALPA started up the campaign against it while in negotiations. Very quickly. I would expect route restart spring if Spain's economy holds up...but by UA metal or by *star but not a repeat of the current arrangement.

but your mileage may vary...grin
 
maxamuus
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:49 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:32 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):
Well that saved THAT sticking point with the Pilots.

I suspect that was the main reason for the cancellation. With Spain's economy in the tank, if the flight was even profitable the amount of profit wasn't worth the bad blood it was causing among UA's pilots especially during "difficult" contract negotiations.
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:05 pm

Hopefully this is an early indicator of an agreement pending with the pilots!

-m

  
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 1256
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 26):
Hopefully this is an early indicator of an agreement pending with the pilots!

As others have commented, I think this is more a reflection of Spain's economy than anything else. From the "scuttlebutt" I've been hearing, the contract negotiations with the pilots are not progressing well. Allegedly, the company is now moving away from positions that they had agreed to earlier.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13200
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share

Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):
Well that saved THAT sticking point with the Pilots.. Good Move!!

I wonder if the EI code share cancellation coupled with the latest news about UA terminating outsourced maintenance at PEMCO are signs the company is making proactive overtures towards the unions during negotiations

PEMCO cancellation:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...-lay-off-nearly-500-at-tia/1243844
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 727LOVER, 747classic, Baidu [Spider], flyguy89, hoons90, ikolkyo, Jerseyguy, Mani87, PlaneHunter, PlaneTruth, Qantas16, Softaero and 190 guests