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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:46 pm

Welcome to the #118th Edition of the New Zealand Aviation Thread. In thread #117 New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 117 (by cchan Jul 7 2012 in Civil Aviation) we learnt and discussed:

- New Zealand residents paying more for NZ flights compared to Australians, UK residents
- AKL-HKG-LHR flight number change
- NZs B763s J class
- NZs 'One up' programme has launched
- NZ drops down Skytrax's worlds best airlines list
- NZ announce 'Hobbit' planes are coming! A B772 and B77W will be painted into Hobbit colours for the Hobbit movies
- ATR 72-600 first delivery will be a special livery......All Black design
- NZs special livery fleet
- New Zealand Emergency diversion airports
- Eagle Airs 1900D fleet replacements
- HA announce AKL-HNL 3x per week from Mach 2013
- NZs changing its livery.....black tail with white Koru
- NZs first B789 delivery will seat 300 pax for Asian routes
- Zest Air (Phillipines) announces its intention to launch AKL services
- NZs changing LAX terminals in 2014 with NZ building a new Star Alliance lounge in TBIT
- FedEx are coming to AKL with a once weekly MD11 service starting this weekend
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 217):
Quoting koruman (Reply 216):
my past as a loyal Air NZ passenger and I respect their staff hugely
Quoting koruman (Reply 216):
Air NZ's marvellous staff have worked hard for years to create a top quality airline, an airline which many of us would go out of our way to fly when there were more convenient or more affordable alternatives.

Thats why it would be a shame, front line staff who have and still do go the extra mile (They have for me in the past many times when I traveled as a passenger). I do accept though that staff service is only part of the overall picture

Fully agree that the staff deserve better! The best two memorys I've got of NZs staff was AKL-LAX in Christmas 2010. I was booked in Y and managed to get a seat in the first two rows with a couple in their 50s/60s beside me. An FA from Business/Premium Economy came to my seat before push back and welcomed me by my first name and handed me a J/Y+ headphones as well as an in-flight bag that J pax get as there were spares in J. Shortly after take off the same FA came back to my row and asked the couple beside me if they would like two rows to themselfs further down the back to sleep during the flight. They accepted her offer and she said they were welcome to return to their original seats before landing to enable them to be one of the first Y pax to get off in LAX. After showing the couple to their new seats, the FA returned to my row and thanked me for flying with Air NZ today. Before she returned to J/Y+ she asked me if there was any wine I would like with my meal that wasn't offered in Y or if I would like a breakfast smoothie before breakfast. Naturally I happily accepted both.

In July 2010 returning from SFO, my in-coming UA flight from DEN was very late, after running like mad to the NZ gate, the gate agents re-opened the gate to allow 5 more pax on. On board NZ7 I had a medical emergency before push back which resulted in the aircraft being delayed an extra 30mins as the captain didn't want to take off till I had improved. Finally while taxiing to the runway, one of the FAs stayed with me till the very last minute as I was in J before she needed to take her seat. During the flight FAs frequently stopped and asked how I was. Needless to say after arriving back home I contacted NZ and thanked them

Service like this when front line staff go beyond whats expected of them is what makes an airline
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:43 am

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
Eagle Airs 1900D fleet replacements

Interesting topic. What will be the replacement? Some say the Q200 may be a go as Bombardier may be willing to repoen the line, what about the Brasillia?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):

Yep, thats exactly what I mean. But if the company do get pushed down to 3 stars, I hope they will wake up and claw back some ground. Like Koruman says, many people on here give the impression of 'slagging off the carrier' but in fact they just want NZ to improve and do well
 
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:23 am

NZ's done a nice piece of Olympic PR in flying Nick Willis' aunt to London tomorrow to watch him run the 1500m...

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland...o-have-special-supporter-in-london
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:13 am

How closely do you NZ staffer's examine your payslips?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu.../Overpaid-Air-NZ-worker-keeps-cash
 
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:15 am

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 4):
How closely do you NZ staffer's examine your payslips?

Yea I saw that story aswell, interesting story. Some may say some bad press for NZ as a result?
 
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:45 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 2):
Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):Eagle Airs 1900D fleet replacements
Interesting topic. What will be the replacement? Some say the Q200 may be a go as Bombardier may be willing to repoen the line, what about the Brasillia?

Previous thread mostly discussed ATR42 and 72 as a future fleet due to the 72-600 order
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:56 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):
Previous thread mostly discussed ATR42 and 72 as a future fleet due to the 72-600 order

The ATR 42 IMO is too close to the DHC8 in terms of capacity.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 7):
The ATR 42 IMO is too close to the DHC8 in terms of capacity.

The manufacturers have to recognise that there is no replacement for the various 19-40 seat fleets around the world - the Twin Otter, Do.228, Emb Bandit & Brasilia, Saab 340, Beech 1900, BA J31 & J41 plus some others that I've forgotten including the various former Soviet builds. Must be well over a thousand that will need some form of imminent or near term replacement?!

NZ's B1900D's are just one of these types.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:11 pm

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 4):
How closely do you NZ staffer's examine your payslips?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...-cash

Having just read this, I hope the airline has sacked a few of its HR team and finance/payroll people.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:25 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 9):

I've been following this since the first news article IIRC last year and IMHO the employee did everything correct in trying to figure out what his correct pay was and NZ 100% stuffed up. Really happy the courts have awarded the win to the employee and not NZ!

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 8):

Some airlines (Great Lakes Aviation USA for example) don't operate anything bigger then a 50 seater and their business fully needs a replacement aircraft in the same markets. Will be interesting to see how this replacement needs go! Will the builders agree to re-opening an aircraft line if they still have the tools required (Bombardier Q100, 200, 300 for example). Maybe Eagle and Air Nelson will be given no option but to merge operations if the 1900D can't be fully replaced or could we see Eagle move to Q200 ops if Bombardier agree to build some Q200s for NZ. I'm sure other airlines like AC would happily jump on some new Q200s if given the chance
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Will the builders agree to re-opening an aircraft line if they still have the tools required (Bombardier Q100, 200, 300 for example).

Threads elsewhere have identified that the Brasilia is still potentially orderable (presumably given a certain minimum order size) as it is built on the same production line as the ERJ-135 and -145. Having said that, I don't know if any have been built since production "ceased", or whether it's just an A-net myth. And I've no idea whether the Brasilia would be a really suitable replacement, or whether it's the only "new" aircraft available.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:09 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Some airlines (Great Lakes Aviation USA for example) don't operate anything bigger then a 50 seater and their business fully needs a replacement aircraft in the same markets. Will be interesting to see how this replacement needs go! Will the builders agree to re-opening an aircraft line if they still have the tools required (Bombardier Q100, 200, 300 for example). Maybe Eagle and Air Nelson will be given no option but to merge operations if the 1900D can't be fully replaced or could we see Eagle move to Q200 ops if Bombardier agree to build some Q200s for NZ. I'm sure other airlines like AC would happily jump on some new Q200s if given the chance

The problem being that such operators have wafer thin profit margins and thus will find it difficult to buy/lease new aircraft. As pretty much all sub 50 seater airlines are no longer in production, whoever brings a new clean-sheet design to production will have a monopoly on the market. Hopefully this should be enough of an incentive for Bombardier or Embraer (or possibly ATR/Alenia) to develop something for this segment sometime in the future.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:34 am

China Airlines to go Daily into AKL
Effective Oct 29th CI will add 4 flights per week AKL-SYD-TPE.
Days 1,3,4,6 CI52 will operate AKL-SYD-TPE
DAys 2,5,7 CI54 will operate AKL-BNE-TPE
With A330-300 aircraft
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:37 am

Update on FEDEX schedule for this Sunday 5th Aug
FX75 LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD-NRT
ETA AKL 1700 ETD AKL 1830
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:41 am

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 13):
Quoting nascarnut (Reply 14):

Thanks a lot for the updates! Good to see another carrier on AKL-SYD.. Might try them out sometime.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:34 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 1):
Service like this when front line staff go beyond whats expected of them is what makes an airline

It is certainly possible to have an overwhelmingly positve 'cabin crew' experience on NZ. My best experiences (I won't bore you with details) surpass anything encountered on any other carrier - including SQ, which I find the most consistently reliable in terms of cabin crew professionalism.

The key word is 'consistently'- and this I think is where NZ has always struggled. While my most positve cabin crew experiences have been with NZ; so too have my most negative. New Zealand culture struggles with conveying and enforcing specific workplace expectations in terms of personal pride and professionalism, and Air NZ is no excpetion. Most people have integrity and conduct themselves with professionalism anyway. The cohort that don't, unfortunately let the whole side down without any particular personal consequence.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:46 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Will the builders agree to re-opening an aircraft line if they still have the tools required (Bombardier Q100, 200, 300 for example).

Well, Bombardier ceased production of the Q200 and Q300 because they wanted to up the production of the Q400 without expanding the factory. Now Q400 orders have dried up and production has dropped off.

There seems to be a good second hand market for Q300's with recent builds being snapped up for conversion to Maritime Surveillance. Air NZ could probably sell NFB and NFI for about what they paid and get more ATR72-600's.

PA515
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
Really happy the courts have awarded the win to the employee and not NZ!

Agreed! And would not be surprised if this brings about a very well justified civil suit against NZ for unfair dismissal, loss of dignity, loss of earnings etc. Well done HR and payroll.

On the 789 configuration subject, do you think NZ will do a Y+ and Y only version for regional and leisure destinations? Or will it be some weird regional Biz like an updated version of that on the 763's? Presumably there will be a three class version on the LHR and North America bound 789's; NRT too?
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:46 pm

The winner of the best employer in Wellington is.......Air NZ! http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...s-best-employer-is-Air-New-Zealand
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:38 pm

Which type of aircraft do the Japanese charters ?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 20):

B763s
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 18):
On the 789 configuration subject, do you think NZ will do a Y+ and Y only version for regional and leisure destinations?

Highly doubt it. Although S2S is taking over, I'm sure they still want their J revenue on the long haul flights. Y+ just doesn't cut it; or at least it's not enough of a premium product compared to J to allow NZ to drop J.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 22):

I believe the B77Ws Y+ product with better seat paddings would do the trick as a J product on leisure/regional routes since the first B789s are replacing the B763s on Asian routes. The B77W seat is more better IMHO as it provides pax with better privacy for single flyers.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
since the first B789s are replacing the B763s on Asian routes

But how many sectors do 763's fly in a week to Asia? My impression is not that many.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 24):

But how many sectors do 763's fly in a week to Asia? My impression is not that many.

DPS, PVG, KIX, NRT.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):

Still far from sufficient, especially when CX start the A359 on the AKL-HKG route with the new product that is far superior (apart from Y+ at this stage) to NZ's product. You'll lose all your business travellers and actually be left to scrap out the low yielders.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:16 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 25):

Has it been confirmed that CX will fly the A359 to AKL? Can't find any info.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 26):

The A359 has been slated to replace the A343 fleet. So unless they decide on swapping aircraft to the 77W or something, AKL will get the A359.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:42 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 25):
Still far from sufficient, especially when CX start the A359 on the AKL-HKG route with the new product that is far superior (apart from Y+ at this stage) to NZ's product. You'll lose all your business travellers and actually be left to scrap out the low yielders.

I was never suggesting HKG is a leisure market and think it will undoubtedly require a J equipped 789 service. In fact, when the global economy kicks into proper recovery, I could imagine the AKL-HKG-LHR requiring a 77W. The leisure (or less business focused) regional markets I was talking about are those like KIX, DPS, HNL. A sub-fleet of 789's configured in Y+ and Y only would help maximise NZ's load factors in these markets IMHO. Similar to VS's new leisure appointed A333's with Y+ and Y only.

I'd see NRT and HKG as requiring J still. Not sure of PVG's or PER's load factors in J but believe that it will only increase in biz market terms and therefore premium traffic.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 22):

Eek, did not know Seats to Suit was being applied in long-haul.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:58 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 28):

Eek, did not know Seats to Suit was being applied in long-haul.

Well look at the way it's going. If DPS and HNL are both now S2S destinations, who's to say that it'll be rolled out to a bigger market at least by the time the 787 arrives? Japan and China might be next. That is, of course, unless Luxon has a huge strategy turnaround and sends things in a completely different direction.


I just don't see NZ dumping J or needing to dump J from the 787 and I figured HKG may be up for 787 use. And nor do I see AKL-HKG-LHR being able to be sustained year round by a 77W (still need at least one more 77W too for that to happen). I think that the market conditions are much different to what VS is facing over the Atlantic. There's heaps of competition there compared to NZ's monopoly over many of these routes. And since VS started off as a LCC type airline, there are probably many people out there still thinking that they are.. Or the people who fly F/J would select another airline regardless anyway. I'm sure NZ can still sell some J seats and I believe that the revenue from selling them would remain more beneficial to the airline than stripping J and filling it in with more Y seats.

With so few 787s, I don't see the point of having different configurations.. It means that you're less flexible when it comes to aircraft changes - a big deal if you've booked J and end up in Y+ because your plane went tech. And that person will probably avoid NZ as much as they can. There's a chance it could be viable with a bigger fleet size but obviously NZ's far too small to be doing such a thing.
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:50 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 18):

There are elements to the case that have not been reported in the media. The individual concerned may have rightly won his case but one should ask why he was not also seeking reinstatement.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:42 am

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 31):
The individual concerned may have rightly won his case but one should ask why he was not also seeking reinstatement

Often people don't want reinstatement if they feel the working relationship has been damaged beyond repair. It is not actually all that unusual not to seek reinstatement. Whether I felt I had done anything wrong or not I would probably prefer to move on after something like this.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:32 am

This is from Monday night but still related to this thread,

''Flight delay after tarmac cracks found''

A Los Angeles-bound Air New Zealand flight from Auckland was delayed by more than four hours after cracks were found on the tarmac underneath the aircraft last night.

Auckland International Airport spokesperson Richard Llewellyn said the cracks were found just beyond the push back area, where aircraft come into the airport terminal.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10823191
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:14 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 29):
I figured HKG may be up for 787 use.

NZ stated that the North Asia will get the 789 first, and the examples being quoted are NRT, KIX and PVG. All of these 3 destinations will be served by 763s in the near future, if not presently. While most airlines would put HKG as part of their North Asia destinations, HKG has not been mentioned by NZ to be among the first to get the 789. It would be interesting what aircraft will operate AKL-HKG-LHR in the medium term. Counting the number of 789s order, it is insufficient to replace 2x 744, 5x 763 and 8x 77E. I suspect the 4 owned 77E will remain in the fleet for medium-long term, and AKL-HKG-LHR will stay with 77E.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:48 am

It has just been announced today from end of March next year, all daily PVG services will be operated by B767 exclusively. KIX will lose its direct service from the same time as well. All KIX flight will be via NRT until end of June.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:53 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 34):
It has just been announced today from end of March next year, all daily PVG services will be operated by B767 exclusively.

Hmmm, wonder what happens with the 772 capacity freed up by this change. Isn't it currently 5 times weekly on the PVG service? Should make K'man happy for once  
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:47 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 25):
Still far from sufficient, especially when CX start the A359 on the AKL-HKG route with the new product that is far superior (apart from Y+ at this stage) to NZ's product. You'll lose all your business travellers and actually be left to scrap out the low yielders.

HKG is NZs biggest Asian market and currently has a LHR service. With this LHR service I highly doubt NZ would put a leisure config B789 on HKG-LHR. IMO expect to see either a B772 or B77W on the route till the premium B789s arrive
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:13 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 33):
NZ stated that the North Asia will get the 789 first

So what happens with SFO - 744s indefinitely? Will the 744s be getting black asses (I suppose we should be happy the fleet is not getting asses the colour of any of Fyfe's shirts)?
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 28):
I could imagine the AKL-HKG-LHR requiring a 77W.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 36):
With this LHR service I highly doubt NZ would put a leisure config B789 on HKG-LHR. IMO expect to see either a B772 or B77W on the route till the premium B789s arrive

I believe NZ cannot operate the 77W HKG-LHR in the same way they operate the 77E on this route. It has to do with the one-engine out performance over part of the airway that they choose to use from HKG. With the 77W's as they are they would need to fly an alternate (longer) airway with its higher operating and airways fee costs.
If you go into FlightAware you can compare the track of a CX 77W and a NZ 77E. The CX track is longer and much more of it is in Russian airspace which is said to be expensive.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 38):
I believe NZ cannot operate the 77W HKG-LHR in the same way they operate the 77E on this route. It has to do with the one-engine out performance over part of the airway that they choose to use from HKG. With the 77W's as they are they would need to fly an alternate (longer) airway with its higher operating and airways fee costs.

There's a 77W HKG-LHR 0825/1405 on the 2nd Nov. The elapsed time is the same as for the 77E, but 40 mins earlier to allow it to depart as NZ1 at 1535.

Will be interesting to see if it takes a different track across China and Russia. Mark it on your calendar Hugh.

PA515

[Edited 2012-08-03 08:43:40]
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 31):
Often people don't want reinstatement if they feel the working relationship has been damaged beyond repair. It is not actually all that unusual not to seek reinstatement. Whether I felt I had done anything wrong or not I would probably prefer to move on after something like this.

Very true and a good point you raise. What I meant to say wasn't 'I think' there is more at play here, but rather there is more to the story. Brookfields have actually published some information so as it is well in truely in the public domain now I will quote a passage from the link that follows.

"Air New Zealand terminated Mr Foai's employment in July 2009 for misconduct not related to the overpayment issue."

As is so often the case, the media only ran half the story.
http://www.brookfields.co.nz/newsroo...mployment/employee_overpayment.asp
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:42 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 35):
Hmmm, wonder what happens with the 772 capacity freed up by this change. Isn't it currently 5 times weekly on the PVG service? Should make K'man happy for once

PVG will be daily from end of Jan 13 with a mixture of 772 and 763. The daily 767 service will revert back to 2x763 and 5x772 from end of Jun 13. I wonder if that means DPS will be back next year.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:58 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 35):
Hmmm, wonder what happens with the 772 capacity freed up by this change. Isn't it currently 5 times weekly on the PVG service?

Currently 5 weekly PVG 772s, reducing to 2 weekly in November then back to 3 in January when it first goes daily. The 744s are due for C checks next year so they will each be out for 2-3 weeks. SFO sees 3 744s and 2 772s currently showing in April May, they are considering additional flights to North America so maybe it could be daily overall but that is the slowest time of year. Maybe 772s to HNL over winter with HA in the market.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 36):
HKG is NZs biggest Asian market and currently has a LHR service.

Is it really the biggest? I'd say most important yes but I would have thought PVG and NRT would have more O&D traffic.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 34):

It has just been announced today from end of March next year, all daily PVG services will be operated by B767 exclusively. KIX will lose its direct service from the same time as well. All KIX flight will be via NRT until end of June.

That seems plausible to me.

Quoting cchan (Reply 33):
Counting the number of 789s order, it is insufficient to replace 2x 744, 5x 763 and 8x 77E. I suspect the 4 owned 77E will remain in the fleet for medium-long term, and AKL-HKG-LHR will stay with 77E.

I wouldn't have thought they would have been planning on getting rid of any 772s just yet. 10 789s to replace 2 744s and 5 763s, sure 1 or 2 772s could leave but I'd have my doubts as they are planning some new services with 787s.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 37):
So what happens with SFO - 744s indefinitely?

Unless somewhere like NRT rebounds enough I'd say they will leave the 744s on SFO.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 27):
The A359 has been slated to replace the A343 fleet. So unless they decide on swapping aircraft to the 77W or something, AKL will get the A359.

77Ws would still be possible in the interim atleast and AKL could also see the A351 seasonally. This year it looks like both flights are A343s, we may have seen the last CX 744 in AKL.  
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:49 am

They have just Pulled out of PEK to boost up PVG ' this is basically the gold mine of China' but going all 763's on it is a Hugh risk ! so much will be lost, the product on the 763 for a 12 hr flight is not up to it,!, and have heard from some good sources within PVG that China Eastern are looking very high at flying to AKL and using there flights from LHR to gain the market, something similar to what CZ have done.

NZ should have taken some options up on extra T7's now there playing musical chairs with old chairs!
Vietnam time..
 
xiaotung
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:06 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 43):
and have heard from some good sources within PVG that China Eastern are looking very high at flying to AKL and using there flights from LHR to gain the market, something similar to what CZ have done.

It's only a matter of time in my opinion before MU and CA enter the market. Just watch how Chinese airlines are doing to all major ports in Australia.

Take SYD-PVG as an example, QF used to charge nearly $2000 on this route and never seemd to have sales. With the recent mass expansion of Chinese airlines, QF now constantly run promotions for a return fare of ony $800.

I think it would be suiside for NZ to introduce S2S on PVG as some have suggested here.
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:17 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 42):
77Ws would still be possible in the interim atleast and AKL could also see the A351 seasonally.

I would love it if they brought their new 3-class 77W (J, Y+, Y) to AKL but they simply don't have enough in hand or on order. They're prioritising and obviously AKL isn't as high yielding as the likes of the European ports CX flies to. Once North America goes all 77W, the new configured planes will push onto LHR and Europe to replace the 744s but it's still insufficient to cover for the A343 fleet.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 44):
It's only a matter of time in my opinion before MU and CA enter the market. Just watch how Chinese airlines are doing to all major ports in Australia.

MU seems more likely to me, they do codeshare with QF though through SYD. CA are in star and codeshare with NZ to PVG and also across the Tasman, maybe they will fly PEK-AKL non stop with a 332?

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 45):
I would love it if they brought their new 3-class 77W (J, Y+, Y) to AKL but they simply don't have enough in hand or on order. They're prioritising and obviously AKL isn't as high yielding as the likes of the European ports CX flies to.

How many 3 class 77Ws are CX planning on having? They go to YYZ and YVR currently. There are other routes like AMS and JNB which use 744s seasonally and I think could get 3 class 77Ws along with AKL, as you say though they won't have enough to cover the A343s.

For NZ I wonder if they still plan to do some sort of refit with the 772 fleet? Next winter atleast for April through June long haul may look something like

AKL-LAX-LHR Daily 77W 3 aircraft
AKL-LAX 5 weekly 77W 1.5 aircraft
AKL-SFO 6 weekly 3x 744, 3x 772 (Reverting to 6x 744 from July)
AKL-YVR 3 weekly 772
AKL-HNL 2 weekly 772 (3 weekly from July)
AKL-HKG-LHR Daily (HKG-LHR sector maybe 5 weekly)
AKL-NRT 6 weekly 772 (some services retrun via KIX)
AKL-PVG Daily 763 (Changes to 5 772, 2 763 from July)
AKL-PER Daily 772

Changes happen from July. That uses 7 772s with the SFO 772s going to PVG from July.
Will KIX get its own dedicated service again?
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:09 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 46):
How many 3 class 77Ws are CX planning on having?

Don't know.. Currently there are 4 - the ones which have arrived brand new since the product was released.. The retrofitted ones are in 4 class config and they have 8 of those. 744s still operate to LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA, SFO, YVR. The YVR-JFK flight is operated by the 4 class one and the 3 class one only goes to YYZ and some JNB flights at the moment.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:42 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 42):
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 37):
So what happens with SFO - 744s indefinitely?

Unless somewhere like NRT rebounds enough I'd say they will leave the 744s on SFO.

If the 789s all go to Asian routes, as has been announced, how many years will the 744s be kept on SFO - until D check? Assuming the 789s will have a similar hard product to the 77Ws, that will exacerbate product inconsistency.

Has the retrofitting of the 772s been postponed "indefinitely"? The Y+ product is vastly inferior and not worth the premium. I fly through SFO rather than YVR to avoid the 772 and it's infuriating when a 772 gets subbed in to an SFO flight that I booked as a 744. And I've learned over the last couple of years that complaining to NZ customer relations about anything just results in a form letter.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 39):
There's a 77W HKG-LHR 0825/1405 on the 2nd Nov. The elapsed time is the same as for the 77E, but 40 mins earlier to allow it to depart as NZ1 at 1535.

Does this mean that a 77E will operate LAX-LHR on that date or are NZ 2 and 38 not operating on that day