sennabestever
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United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:26 pm

Is United down to just the one route out of LAX (LAX-SYD) with the 744? I remember flying into LAX a few years ago and seeing as many as 8 744's sitting on the ground and as many as 4 sitting at T7 at the same time in the evening.
 
avek00
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:28 pm

That's right, SYD is it. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the ex-LAX 777 routes flip to 2-cabin birds soon.
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LAXintl
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:43 pm

Yes currently SYD only.

NRT, PVG, LHR along with some domestic flying is 777s.

Quoting sennabestever (Thread starter):
I remember flying into LAX a few years ago and seeing as many as 8 744's sitting on the ground and as many as 4 sitting at T7 at the same time in the evening.

Your eyes were deciving you. Never was there 8 744s on the ground, nor 4 at a get at night. Max at night was 3, about 10-years ago when in winter high season season when SYD went double daily, and UA still had the AKL flight.
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jfk777
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:59 pm

Auckland, New Zealand when United flew there. Sydney is the one destination always flown by a 744. Hong Kong has also been flown by a 744 when UA flew it briefly from LAX, always a 744 from SFO to HKG.
 
roseflyer
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:10 pm

There most certainly were not 8 747s at LAX a few years ago. If by a few years, you mean the late 90s, you might have been seeing 747-200s and 747-400s. LAX had 747-200s flying domestic routes in addition to 747s to HKG, NRT, AKL & SYD. For the last few years LAX has only had SYD as a 747 route. NRT and LHR have been 777 routes for years.

747 C checks are now done in Beijing (after being in South Korea before that), so it has been a while since 747 maintenance was done in LAX. A checks are in ORD and C checks in China. You see a 747 all day at the maintenance facility between the SYD flights and some maintenance can be done. You might also see one of the spares there as during the winter schedule there is a lot of slack in the 747 schedule. 747s regularly were at LAX in the mid 2000s.
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STT757
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:14 pm

At one time, 12 years ago or so, I think UA had nonstop 744s from LAX to:

Auckland
Sydney
Melbourne (separate flight for a short time)
Tokyo
Hong Kong
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mogandoCI
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
At one time, 12 years ago or so, I think UA had nonstop 744s from LAX to:

Auckland
Sydney
Melbourne (separate flight for a short time)
Tokyo
Hong Kong

Is the scenario today a function of partnerships or a function of UA failing to sustain a second Pacific hub next to SFO ?
 
Rdh3e
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
Is the scenario today a function of partnerships or a function of UA failing to sustain a second Pacific hub next to SFO ?

I'd like to add a second part to your question. Does anyone know how the capacity to those destinations (aside AKL) has been dissipated across the other hubs? Could this have contributed to the shrinkage of capacity from LAX TPAC?
 
tommy767
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:11 pm

Of course back in the day UA used to fly 747s from LAX to a few domestic destinations as well. HNL and IAD were two of them offhand.
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LAXintl
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
Is the scenario today a function of partnerships or a function of UA failing to sustain a second Pacific hub next to SFO ?
Quoting RDH3E (Reply 7):
I'd like to add a second part to your question. Does anyone know how the capacity to those destinations (aside AKL) has been dissipated across the other hubs? Could this have contributed to the shrinkage of capacity from LAX TPAC?

Only thing dropped was AKL back in 2002, and HKG which died in the fuel run up in 2008.

AKL had several reasons (there is a current separate thread going), while HKG imo was just terrible timing on bringing the flight back at time when fuel spiked. Loads on HKG were good, but virtually half the plane was Vietnamese going to SGN, so I doubt it was much revenue.

LAX did get a new transpac route - PVG nonstop last summer which loadwise seems to be doing well.

But in fairness with Star partners - LAX is very well covered. Just about everyone has multi-daily flights across the Pacific here. If EVA joins by next year, that will add several more options for UA customers.
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sennabestever
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Quoting sennabestever (Thread starter):
I remember flying into LAX a few years ago and seeing as many as 8 744's sitting on the ground and as many as 4 sitting at T7 at the same time in the evening.

Your eyes were deciving you. Never was there 8 744s on the ground, nor 4 at a get at night. Max at night was 3, about 10-years ago when in winter high season season when SYD went double daily, and UA still had the AKL flight.

You're probably right about 8 being too many. I did take a look at my flight log and in 02/03, I flew a 744 from ORD-LAX (which docked at T6) and connected to MEL later that night on another 744. There were also flights to SYD and AKL within about an hour of my flight that night- both 744's. I can remember also passing a 2 or 3 744's in the United maint area while taxiing for takeoff to MEL at around 10:30pm that night.

I'd say at least 6 on the ground at the same time. This was also when they had about 40 something 744's in their fleet from memory.
 
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 4):
747 C checks are now done in Beijing (after being in South Korea before that), so it has been a while since 747 maintenance was done in LAX. A checks are in ORD and C checks in China. You see a 747 all day at the maintenance facility between the SYD flights and some maintenance can be done. You might also see one of the spares there as during the winter schedule there is a lot of slack in the 747 schedule. 747s regularly were at LAX in the mid 2000s.

The Sydney 744 is parked in front of the hangar between the morning flight from SYD and the evening departure to Australia. LAX has several planes sitting there all day, Qantas even has a hangar where 2 A380 and a 744 or two are parked near enjoying the southern California sun.
 
Viscount724
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:31 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 8):
Of course back in the day UA used to fly 747s from LAX to a few domestic destinations as well. HNL and IAD were two of them offhand.

Going way back, in the April 1974 OAG UA had 7 daily 741s to LAX -- 3 from HNL and 1 each from JFK, DTW, ORD, SEA.

In November 1979 it was 10 daily 741s -- 3 each from HNL, ORD, JFK and 1 from ITO.
 
roseflyer
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 7):

Is the scenario today a function of partnerships or a function of UA failing to sustain a second Pacific hub next to SFO ?

I'd like to add a second part to your question. Does anyone know how the capacity to those destinations (aside AKL) has been dissipated across the other hubs? Could this have contributed to the shrinkage of capacity from LAX TPAC?

AKL is covered by Air New Zealand which has a monopoly on US - New Zealand service and has 4-5 daily flights between the mainland west coast and AKL. That's up from 2 when they were competing with QF and UA.

HKG is fed through SFO. SFO-HKG loads are very high and close to the highest in the system. CX also has quite a bit of the traffic. CX is up to almost 3 daily 77Ws.

NRT is down to a 777. It makes sense since UA is competing with 7 other airlines on the route.

LHR has been a 777 for years. At one point they added a second frequency which was sometimes a 767 although it took weight restrictions at times.

Quoting sennabestever (Reply 10):
I'd say at least 6 on the ground at the same time. This was also when they had about 40 something 744's in their fleet from memory.

UA took delivery of 44 brand new 747-400s from Boeing.
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:57 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 8):
Of course back in the day UA used to fly 747s from LAX to a few domestic destinations as well. HNL and IAD were two of them offhand.

SAN, DEN and KOA have also seen UA 747 flights to/from LAX at one point or another, the SAN flight was a tag from HNL.
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boilerla
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:19 am

To be fair, I think I've occasionally have seen more than one 744 at LAX, but always near the hangars. I got a good look at one of them while ATC had us "park" at that end of the airport for a long time; I think one was in the process of being converted to Atlas.

On the other hand, at ORD today I saw 3 UA 744s in a row. I was kind of jealous.
 
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
At one time, 12 years ago or so, I think UA had nonstop 744s from LAX to:

Auckland
Sydney
Melbourne (separate flight for a short time)
Tokyo
Hong Kong

For a while (1995-1996?) LAX-NRT was double daily 744. LAX-KIX was also a single daily 744.
 
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STT757
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:11 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):

UA took delivery of 44 brand new 747-400s from Boeing.

Which is crazy because even with the new larger UA of today I cannot think of enough routes where they would need 44 744s.
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roseflyer
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):

Which is crazy because even with the new larger UA of today I cannot think of enough routes where they would need 44 744s.

Back in the late 1990s basically all transpacific routes were 747s, and the transatlantic and South America routes were going to 767s and 777s. Things have changed and the 777 has become the most common transpacific plane.
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tommy767
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 18):
Back in the late 1990s basically all transpacific routes were 747s, and the transatlantic and South America routes were going to 767s and 777s. Things have changed and the 777 has become the most common transpacific plane.

So when and how many 744s did UA end up returning?
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roseflyer
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):

So when and how many 744s did UA end up returning?

UA didn't lease any of the 747s at original purchase. They were all purchased by UA, although some were sold to finance companies.

UA is down to about 28 747s on their books (some are parked in the desert) and 16 have been sold to other operators.
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STT757
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:51 pm

They currently have 24 active 744s, they removed 20 744s from the fleet beginning after 9/11 and being accelerated in bankruptcy.

16 744s are now with other operators, 3 are stored, and 1 (a 1992 build) was scrapped.

What's interesting is that in UA's active fleet they have 1989 builds, while amongst the aircraft they divested are 1998 builds. I guess they sold off the newer frames because they were more valuable.

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...747-400&fleet=6297&fleetStatus=all
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exFWAOONW
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
Which is crazy because even with the new larger UA of today I cannot think of enough routes where they would need 44 744s.

And yet, there is an anet thread almost every week asking when they will buy A380s   
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STT757
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:06 am

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 22):

And yet, there is an anet thread almost every week asking when they will buy A380s

I'm not saying there's no need for a VLA at UA, there is, just not 44. If UA were ordering A380s I would say they need about ten to fifteen. If they order the 747-8I I would say they need 20-25. I hoping for an 747-8I order because they can do so much more with that aircraft than the A380, they 747-8I can operate into EWR for instance while the A380 cannot.
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STT757
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:10 am

During the post 9/11 period, including bankruptcy, UA shed 20 744s and 8 777s. That's a whole lot of widebody capacity.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:26 am

So if UA has only one 744 in LAX, they must switch out in SYD with SFO so that the 744 isnt isolated from the rest of the system.
 
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exFWAOONW
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
In November 1979 it was 10 daily 741s -- 3 each from HNL, ORD, JFK and 1 from ITO.

Sounds about right. I took 747s from ITO to ORD in that time frame.
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RWA380
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:54 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 25):
So if UA has only one 744 in LAX, they must switch out in SYD with SFO so that the 744 isnt isolated from the rest of the system

IIRC, the plane you are referring to is routed LAX-SYD-MEL-SYD-SFO, so the aircraft are rotated through SFO already.
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sennabestever
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:55 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
They currently have 24 active 744s, they removed 20 744s from the fleet beginning after 9/11 and being accelerated in bankruptcy.

16 744s are now with other operators, 3 are stored, and 1 (a 1992 build) was scrapped.

What's interesting is that in UA's active fleet they have 1989 builds, while amongst the aircraft they divested are 1998 builds. I guess they sold off the newer frames because they were more valuable.

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...s=all

I think they're down to 23 active now. Also, I believe 2 have now been scrapped. There are pictures in the database of N173UA at Marana in pretty bad shape.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting sennabestever (Reply 28):
I think they're down to 23 active now.

Yes and no. There are 23 active in the IPTE config. Plus 1 in domestic config that is used for charters only.
 
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STT757
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:44 am

1996 timetables show the following UA 744 flights from LAX:

Auckland 1 daily
Hong Kong 1 daily
Osaka 1 daily
Sydney, Melbourne 1 daily
Tokyo 2 daily

Six daily.
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ZK-NBT
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:45 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 30):
Sydney, Melbourne 1 daily

That would have been AKL-MEL!

I guess these days the only real possibilties for more 744 flights from LAX are NRT and SYD which seasonally do see 744s or in SYDs case additional flights. Where else could they send them?
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:45 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Yes currently SYD only.

and that SYD flight comes down to MEL then back to SYD before heading back to LAX.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:05 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
Auckland, New Zealand when United flew there.

The SYD flight was always direct from LAX and SFO, when UA stopped soley flying to Auckland they tagged Auckland onto the Melbourne flight to LAX. They later dropped Auckland altogether and then tagged Melbourne onto Sydney.
 
LH422
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:42 am

A few years ago, when you searched for a flight from FRA to SYD, UA would be among the cheapest, with a routing either via SFO or LAX (through LH codeshare). Nowadays, the flight is always too expensive (€5,000+ in Y) to be a viable option. I wonder if this is to keep Europeans off the LAX/SFO-SYD sector?
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:59 am

LH422 from Australia, UA still offers good fares to Europe. For example:
http://www.bestflights.com.au/cheap-...-and-europe/united-airlines/112686
 
roseflyer
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 34):
A few years ago, when you searched for a flight from FRA to SYD, UA would be among the cheapest, with a routing either via SFO or LAX (through LH codeshare). Nowadays, the flight is always too expensive (€5,000+ in Y) to be a viable option. I wonder if this is to keep Europeans off the LAX/SFO-SYD sector?

It is because UA stopped publishing a legitimate fare for Europe – Australia. The fares left are essentially buying a round trip SFO-FRA and SFO-SYD fare. The connections are fairly lousy anyways. People self select off of flying UA Europe – Australia. It is longer and requires going through full US customs and immigration.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
strfyr51
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:16 pm

Unied has 24 747-422'a flying and One flies ONLY military charters N194UA. Much of the LAX international flying is done by 777'
 
LAXintl
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:25 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 25):
So if UA has only one 744 in LAX, they must switch out in SYD with SFO so that the 744 isnt isolated from the rest of the system.

They also do fair number of adhoc LAX-SFO hops with the 744 including maintenance positioning flights.

Good plane to have to clear passenger backlogs when weather issues take down SFO.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Did UA ever have 747 service from LAX to South America in the late '90's? I would swear once in about December of 1997 that there was a 747 parked at a T7 gate next to my flight that was being boarded for EZE and MVD. I remember it because the destinations seemed rather exotic from the West Coast at that time. Am I all fuzzy in the head, or did they actually fly this route?
 
roseflyer
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting iahworldflyer (Reply 39):
Did UA ever have 747 service from LAX to South America in the late '90's? I would swear once in about December of 1997 that there was a 747 parked at a T7 gate next to my flight that was being boarded for EZE and MVD. I remember it because the destinations seemed rather exotic from the West Coast at that time. Am I all fuzzy in the head, or did they actually fly this route?

UA was operating EZE out of MIA at the time and would frequently tag the widebodies to SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD and IAD. I
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: United 747 Routes Out Of LAX

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:57 pm

Thanks Roseflyer, that makes sense. It must have been a tag with the same flight number through to EZE.

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