dkramer7
Topic Author
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:06 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:38 am

So American have decided to go with both the A320 family NEO and 737MAX.

Would it not have been better to choose 1 only? Especially given they are trying to reduce their costs
 
vaus77w
Posts: 140
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:05 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:49 am

Quoting dkramer7 (Thread starter):
So American have decided to go with both the A320 family NEO and 737MAX.

Would it not have been better to choose 1 only? Especially given they are trying to reduce their costs

Sigh...I'm sure this was discussed extensively at the time of the orders. I think the main reason is that neither manufacturer could meet the volume of planes AA requires in the necessary timeframe for retirement of ther oldest fleets (762s, 752s, MD80s etc). They can also probably leverage A and B off each other for future orders in the future.
 
nws2002
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:01 am

I've heard many on here say that once you reach a certain fleet size there isn't much to gain my sticking to it and you might gain advantages by using the different types in different roles. Don't know if that is true, but it seems to be the party line from DL.
 
dkramer7
Topic Author
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:06 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:15 am

Quoting vaus77w (Reply 2):

I searched but could not find any reference to this
 
b377
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:51 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:17 am

Quoting dkramer7 (Thread starter):
Would it not have been better to choose 1 only? Especially given they are trying to reduce their costs

My recollection of the July 2011 deal, was that both Airbus and Boeing both offered such a cost effective deal, including all financing, so AA's BOD decided to accept both offers.
 
starrymarkb
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:19 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:08 am

Also in a further split IIRC the A319s are planned to have CFM engines and the A321s will have IAEs
 
olddominion727
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:39 am

it was purely for the volume reasons. I believe it went along with their announcement. My only question is the A321NEO going to have the same range as the 757? That way they can use them to HI and EU?
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2637
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:40 am

It came down to one critical thing.
Boeing could not produce enough frames to satisfy AA and their other customers at the same time.
Airbus could not produce enough frames to satisfy AA and their other customers at the same time.

So AA had to split the order since they failed to act on a narrowbody fleet renewal program in sufficent time to avoid having to replace massive portions of their fleet in a relatively short period of time.

I don't think it will matter outside of a modest increase in crewing and mx costs partialy offset by the ability to put the planes on the routes they are more suited for more of the time. Which is far less than the costs they would have seen trying to keep thier fleet limping along under the rates one company alone could have supplied.
 
sweair
Posts: 1816
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:59 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:32 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 6):
My only question is the A321NEO going to have the same range as the 757? That way they can use them to HI and EU?

Actually it looks like the MAX-9 will have greater range than the A321 NEO, you will not see either A321 or MAX-9 go TATL, 757 have 4100nm range and the NEO/MAX have about 3600nm maximum range.

Hawaii, sure, they will make it and trans continental US as well.

757s will get replaced by 767/A330/787 on TATL. And A321/739 on domestic routes. There will be no true NB 757 replacement ever.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22930
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:40 pm

Quoting dkramer7 (Thread starter):
Would it not have been better to choose 1 only? Especially given they are trying to reduce their costs

Yes, but as others have noted, AA's delivery timetable and volume (close to 500 aircraft), would have required either Boeing or Airbus to dedicate most of their narrowbody production to AA and that was not possible as they had other customer contracts.

So AA had no choice but to order both the A320 and 737 families.
 
dbo861
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 2:20 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:11 pm

According to Wikipedia they only ordered 11 A319s. I wonder why so few. It'll be a nice bridge between the E145 and 738.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:55 pm

I don't think Wikipedia knows, since the breakout in detail isn't available.

They ordered mostly A321s, true, as well as A319s. No need for A320s, since they have that size class very well covered with the 738.

NS
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:02 pm

On the day that both orders were announced, I saw an interview with then AMR presdient Tim Hortonon CNBC. IIRC, Horton said that both A and B made very good offers in terms of price and equipment mix (A319/320/321 current and Neo and 737-700/-800/-900 NG and MAX). But, management felt that it needed a larger order than either A or B could handle. AA has a very large fleet of MD-80s that needs to be retired ASAP. AA needs to start replacing the 757s soon. The 762s are also getting older and have cost issues.

So, management and the BoD agreed to order from both A and B, and map out a fleet alignment between A and B: A319 for aircraft somewhat smaller than the MD-80, 738 for aircraft slightly larger than the MD-80, and the A321 for a similar size to the 757, as well as 762s on the trans-con routes.

It's been described at a win for Airbus and a loss for Boeing, since AA hadn't ordered any Airbuses since the A300 fleet. But I heard people from both A and B saying on CNBC, after the Horton interview, that neither manufacturer had the capacity to take the complete order. When AA management started talking about the size of the potential order, both figured that they were going to get part of the order.
 
lhcvg
Posts: 1255
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 2:53 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:17 pm

Quoting dkramer7 (Reply 3):
I searched but could not find any reference to this

It has been mentioned countless times by mx and fleet management folk on here. It's just economies of scale - once you reach a certain fleet size where you can justify special parts and retain a critical mass of mx personnel for that type, the complexity issue goes away pretty fast. As nws notes above, for a big operator there are often advantages to be found in tailoring a/c to specific situations where their particular economics are superior. Small carriers and ardent single-type operators like WN and FR see this complexity as a negative and not worth the hassle, but to a large carrier, the benefits may outweigh the costs. Plus, you avoid the potential for an entire section of your lfeet getting wiped out by a major recall or etc. for one particular model.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22930
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 10):
According to Wikipedia they only ordered 11 A319s. I wonder why so few.

Per the Fleet Renewal presentation AA published, the 737-700/A319-100 fleet would be used for:

Secondary domestic markets
Select markets in Latin America
High-altitude or short-runway airports

(And yes, I know AA does not have any 737-700s in their fleet, but evidently they do have the option with Boeing).
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19597
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting starrymarkb (Reply 5):

Also in a further split IIRC the A319s are planned to have CFM engines and the A321s will have IAEs

Which isn't such a big deal. I believe that the NEO will have swappable engines and AA is going with power-by-the-hour with both, I'm sure, so they will know ahead of time precisely what the costs of operation are (aside from fuel, of course).

Quoting sweair (Reply 8):
757s will get replaced by 767/A330/787 on TATL. And A321/739 on domestic routes. There will be no true NB 757 replacement ever.

Exactly. Just as there will be no true 707 or 727 replacement, there will be no 757 replacement. There will be new aircraft with overlapping capabilities.

Does anyone know, will AA be keeping separate pilot pools for the A319 vs A321? If that's the plan, then ordering the 737-8MAX makes sense.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:09 pm

If you think about it, introducing 1 frame of a new type is very expensive... there is a lot that goes into getting the new type. Add another one, the cost to maintain the 2 go up but the price PER frame goes down. Add more and more, and the price per frame goes down and down and essentially levels off at $X per frame... add more frames and the price will still be $X per frame. Because AA is ordering so many MAX and NEOs, they'll reach that point in both fleets so it isn't substantially more expensive to have the 2 fleet types. In return, they get the planes faster from the 2 manufacturers and have a little bit more of a diverse fleet.

If that was too confusing or flat out wrong, just ignore what I said  
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Exactly. Just as there will be no true 707 or 727 replacement

idk. the 757 is almost identical in size to a 727.

NS
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 19597
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 16):

If you think about it, introducing 1 frame of a new type is very expensive... there is a lot that goes into getting the new type. Add another one, the cost to maintain the 2 go up but the price PER frame goes down. Add more and more, and the price per frame goes down and down and essentially levels off at $X per frame... add more frames and the price will still be $X per frame. Because AA is ordering so many MAX and NEOs, they'll reach that point in both fleets so it isn't substantially more expensive to have the 2 fleet types. In return, they get the planes faster from the 2 manufacturers and have a little bit more of a diverse fleet.

This is called "economy of scale."

There are two sorts of costs associated with a fleet of vehicles (be they rickshaws or A380's). There are fixed overhead costs for the fleet. Training people to maintain them. Establishing a purchasing system for parts. Training people to operate them. These are systematic costs that change little with the overall number of vehicles in the system. The more units you buy, the more you spread these costs out among the units.

Then there are per-unit costs that are directly 1:1 variable with the number of units purchased. The cost of the units. The cost of fuel. The cost of paying for pilots (or rickshaw drivers). Maintenance costs. Etc.

After a certain fleet size, the first type of cost begins to approach zero per unit. Adding more units doesn't significantly decrease those costs. At that point, other considerations (delivery slots, specific performance considerations, etc.) become more important than reducing overheads.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
AirbusA6
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:53 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:05 pm

Back in the 80s AA ordered both the 767-300 and A300-600, so it's not the first time when they've ordered similar products from both A and B
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:06 pm

Good call.

Wish UA would order some 320 NEOs
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
maxpower1954
Posts: 1040
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:14 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Does anyone know, will AA be keeping separate pilot pools for the A319 vs A321? If that's the plan, then ordering the 737-8MAX makes sense.

Highly unlikely. It's a common type rating; at my company I fly the 319, 320 and 321 - sometimes on the same two day trip.

[Edited 2012-08-04 15:25:57]
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):

Does anyone know, will AA be keeping separate pilot pools for the A319 vs A321? If that's the plan, then ordering the 737-8MAX makes sense.

I would think the A32S family will all have the same pilot pool as with the 737. My guess is the A321 will have a higher rate than that of the A320/A319. (and any 739s would have higher rates than the 738/G but with the same pool of pilots)

I don't think i have heard of airline keeping A319 pilots separate from 320 or 321.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 10997
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:08 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 6):
My only question is the A321NEO going to have the same range as the 757? That way they can use them to HI and EU?

No, they cannot use the A-321 to go west coast to Hawaii. It has the range but not I don't think it has enough fuel left for the holding requirements over an island destination.

Quoting sweair (Reply 8):
Actually it looks like the MAX-9 will have greater range than the A321 NEO, you will not see either A321 or MAX-9 go TATL, 757 have 4100nm range and the NEO/MAX have about 3600nm maximum range.

Hawaii, sure, they will make it and trans continental US as well.

Even though Hawaii has several airports, and military fields that can easily handle airliners, I believe airliners coming from the CONUS still have to have the holding fuel

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
Wish UA would order some 320 NEOs

Why? They couldn't get them before about 2020 anyway.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5816
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:19 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7):
It came down to one critical thing.
Boeing could not produce enough frames to satisfy AA and their other customers at the same time.
Airbus could not produce enough frames to satisfy AA and their other customers at the same time.

The principle reason AA ordered Boeing and Airbus is no one maker couls make enough planes fast.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
Wish UA would order some 320 NEOs

UA just ordered 100 737 MAX airframes covering any size ( but they specified the -9).

An order for 320 NEOs following that would be incongruous.

Yes there are plenty of economies of scale in AA's fleet - but the fact remains AA did what they did because they had to. UA doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the ex-CO 737s I get aboard very much, and I enjoy the A320s much better. But I doubt it will ever happen.

NS
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4292
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
No, they cannot use the A-321 to go west coast to Hawaii. It has the range but not I don't think it has enough fuel left for the holding requirements over an island destination.

OK, I think you need a cite or more information here. According to the manufactures web sites the B738 has a range of 3115 nm and the A321neo will have a range of 3700 nm. So, if the B738 can operate to HNL, which they do with AS at least, why can't the A321neo? Sure you have the diversion requirements, which are more stringent than most places, but if the B738 can meet them with 3115 nm, why can't the A321neo do so with 3700 nm? I don't get it.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
delawareusa
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:48 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:25 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 17):

The 757-200 has ~ 40 more pax (in all economy) then 727-200. The 757 was a size replacement for the 707. When customers wanted something closer to a 727 size then a 737-300 or 757-200, Boeing brought out the 737-400.
 
SWALUV
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:25 am

Quoting sweair (Reply 8):
Actually it looks like the MAX-9 will have greater range than the A321 NEO, you will not see either A321 or MAX-9 go TATL, 757 have 4100nm range and the NEO/MAX have about 3600nm maximum range.

Hawaii, sure, they will make it and trans continental US as well.

Knowing AA they have tendency to operate 767-300's on there Hawaiian routes. Do you think this could be a viable replacement?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22930
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:01 am

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 28):
Knowing AA they have tendency to operate 767-300's on there Hawaiian routes. Do you think this could be a viable replacement?

Yes.
 
spink
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:58 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
No, they cannot use the A-321 to go west coast to Hawaii. It has the range but not I don't think it has enough fuel left for the holding requirements over an island destination.

GC distance is ~2350 worst case (SEA-LIH, with LAX/SFO/SEA ranging from 2126-2350 nmi to LIH which is worst case). The 737NG/320/?321/Max/NEO should have ~700-1500 nmi to spare on that route.
 
zhiao
Posts: 441
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:52 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:45 am

Can anyone explain why AA only ordered 10 A319s?
 
crAAzy
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:13 am

Quoting zhiao (Reply 31):
Can anyone explain why AA only ordered 10 A319s?
AA has ordered 130 A319s and 130 A321s (options for another 130 of each in NEO version).

The first A319s will be delivered in 2013 (starting Q3) and only 10 will be delivered in 2013. The rest of the A319s will be delivered between 2014 through 2017. I think people are confusing the delivery number for next year vs. the total number ordered.

AA has no confirmed orders for A320s as they expect the 737s and 737Max to continue to fill the role of those missions.

[Edited 2012-08-04 22:16:00]
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:20 am

Quoting delawareusa (Reply 27):
The 757-200 has ~ 40 more pax (in all economy) then 727-200. The 757 was a size replacement for the 707. When customers wanted something closer to a 727 size then a 737-300 or 757-200, Boeing brought out the 737-400.

My mistake.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 32):
AA has ordered 130 A319s and 130 A321s (options for another 130 of each in NEO version).

Are you sure? I thought the NEO orders were firm, and that there were 130 OEO and 130 NEO.

That is, in fact, what the Airbus orderbook reflects.

NS
 
crAAzy
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):


Are you sure? I thought the NEO orders were firm, and that there were 130 OEO and 130 NEO.

That is, in fact, what the Airbus orderbook reflects.

You are correct ... my bad. I should have gone back to read the press release!

130 firm OEO (mix of A319 and A321 between now and 2017).

130 firm NEO (same mix).

Options for another 365 airbus.

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=3286
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15689
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting delawareusa (Reply 27):
The 757 was a size replacement for the 707. When customers wanted something closer to a 727 size then a 737-300 or 757-200, Boeing brought out the 737-400.

The 752 was designed as the 722 replacement. The additional 40 seats and the severe recession 1981-83 made early orders very slow to realize. By the mid-80's, the 733 was in service and the A320 and 734 were on the horizon which fragmented the 722 replacement market. Very few 707 were still in pax service by the early 80's hence very few airlines went right from the 707 to the 757 (bypassing the 722) although Monarch Airlines is one that did.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):
Quoting crAAzy (Reply 32):
AA has ordered 130 A319s and 130 A321s (options for another 130 of each in NEO version).

Are you sure? I thought the NEO orders were firm, and that there were 130 OEO and 130 NEO.

atbd.org is showing only the 130-frame order the A32x. An A32xneo order is not listed yet for AA, nor is the planned order for 100 more 738's. Has the neo order been finalized? I thought the 738, neo and 787 orders were delayed due to the Ch11 hiccup.

Incidently, atdb.org is still showing 11 firm A319 (with MSN's identified) for delivery July-Oct 2013. The other 119 are A321 with deliveries planned from 2014 (no MSN's id'ed yet).

Quoting zhiao (Reply 31):
Can anyone explain why AA only ordered 10 A319s?

No doubt more of the 119 order for A321 classics will convert to A319 over time.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22930
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 35):
atbd.org is showing only the 130-frame order the A32x. An A32xneo order is not listed yet for AA, nor is the planned order for 100 more 738's. Has the neo order been finalized? I thought the 738, neo and 787 orders were delayed due to the Ch11 hiccup.

Boeing lists the 100 frame 737-800 order placed in July 2011. The 737 MAX order remains an MoU.

The 787-9 order remains an MoU as AA did not wish to firm it until they had a signed agreement with their pilots.

As for the A320(neo) family order, I believe Airbus has chosen not to list them as firm orders due to AA being in bankruptcy reorganization.
 
lhcvg
Posts: 1255
Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 2:53 pm

RE: Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 35):

Quoting zhiao (Reply 31):
Can anyone explain why AA only ordered 10 A319s?

No doubt more of the 119 order for A321 classics will convert to A319 over time.

I think DL still only has a handful of 73G's too. As with AA's plans for the 319s, they specifically use them on various secondary routes when they aren't busy on hot and high or LA work. Given the higher CASM, you're probably not going to want more 73G/A319's than you need to run the niche routes where their performance is needed.
 
BlueSky1976
Posts: 1604
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 am

RE: Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:56 am

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 34):

130 firm OEO (mix of A319 and A321 between now and 2017).

130 firm NEO (same mix).

Options for another 365 airbus.

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=...=3286

Thank you for this information and for the link. This should put all "AA Airbus order is not firm" rumours, spread by well-known Airbus bashers, to rest.
POLAND IS UNDER DICTATORSHIP. PLEASE SUPPORT COMMITTEE FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, K.O.D.
 
Someone83
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

RE: Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:12 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 38):
Thank you for this information and for the link. This should put all "AA Airbus order is not firm" rumours, spread by well-known Airbus bashers, to rest.

It's not firm according to Airbus  


This is Airbus official overview, and no A319 or A321 orders for AA are listed here:
http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/back...ies_table/July_2012_Airbus_ODs.xls

But I'm sure it will be firmed up soon enough for the first aircraft to arrive in mid-2013  
 
sirtoby
Posts: 346
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:56 am

RE: Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:13 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 38):
Quoting crAAzy (Reply 34):

130 firm OEO (mix of A319 and A321 between now and 2017).

130 firm NEO (same mix).

Options for another 365 airbus.

http://aa.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=...=3286

Thank you for this information and for the link. This should put all "AA Airbus order is not firm" rumours, spread by well-known Airbus bashers, to rest.

Yes and no! The neo order is not in the Airbus O&D spreadsheet, as AA went in under Ch11 before the order was finalized. And I think it was said at the time that the ceo's might come from existing of new orders from lessors. It should get clear when the first aircraft will go to AA in 2013.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4540
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:27 am

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 37):
I think DL still only has a handful of 73G's too.

Delta has 10 73Ws but also has 50+ A319s.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:29 am

Quoting dkramer7 (Thread starter):
Would it not have been better to choose 1 only?

At this fleet size, no. The costs of an extra fleet are significant if you speek about fleets of 20, but if you have 50 each the extra costs compared to 100 one type are marginal, but if you make optimal usage of both fleets you just can save more.

And I expect the Airbus offer just was too good to say no, Boeing offered a plane that was completely undefined at this day also for a very good price I'm sure, so this is a deal where everybody can be happy about. American gets an ideal fleet, Airbus has a big US operator of the NEO and Boeing could launch the MAX and does not have to develop an all new NB before 2030.

And, since the future of AA is uncertain, both producers shared the risk if AA disappears equally, which again may a reason everybody is happy.
 
Northwest727
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:38 am

RE: Reasoning Behind American Choosing A320 & 737?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:21 pm

I'm surprised that AA bought something Airbus...I though AA was still in dispute over Airbus with who's at fault in AA587. Then again, that was going on 11 years ago, time heals I guess.