ZKOJH
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Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:24 am

We knew it would happen sooner or later, the market is so hard to compete in.

As per 04AUG12 GDS inventory display, Hong Kong Airlines is cancelling Hong Kong – London Gatwick daily service starting 03SEP12. Reservation for this flight is closed for travel on/after 03SEP12, although its website shows “sold out”.

The service was only launched in March and lasted only 6 month,
Vietnam time..
 
BestWestern
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:42 am

No surprise. Wrong London airport, expensive timings, no feed on either end.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
kaitak
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:53 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 1):
No surprise. Wrong London airport, expensive timings, no feed on either end.

Agree completely; a morning departure from LGW might have worked better (there's only from from LHR). Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day.

This aircraft seems to be going downhill quickly; they've been ticked off severely by the HK CAA and it's rumoured they're not allowed to use gate positions due to non-payments of fees to HK Airport Authority. They will probably survive because they have financial strength behind them, but they need some decent management for get themselves back on track.
 
acedriver
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:55 am

Not surprising, really. HX is fighting against CX and BA on the London route, and it certainly is not a battle that HX can win.
It will be interesting to see how long CA's flight to LGW will last...
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:11 am

Not surprising, but sad to see them leaving LGW, was able to catch one of their aircraft parked up in LGW while on my way to MNI in June. I honestly couldnt believe how long they have the aircraft sitting there during the day between flight.

[Edited 2012-08-04 03:20:17]
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acedriver
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:17 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
This aircraft seems to be going downhill quickly;

There are rumours that the FAs and ground crew of this airlines is going on strike as well.
Things certainly are not going well for them at the moment....HU intervention anyone?
 
BestWestern
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:28 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day.

thats what I meant by expensive timings...

Quoting acedriver (Reply 5):
There are rumours that the FAs and ground crew of this airlines is going on strike as well.

i've flown them on numerous occasions, and the service is excellent, and flights punctual.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
VS239
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:46 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day.

Out of curiosity does that allow enough time for the inbound flight crew to fly back the same day? No idea if it would be, hence the question.   

[Edited 2012-08-04 03:46:57]
Who...me??
 
LondonCity
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:43 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day.

When asked about the poor aircraft utilisation, the carrier's executives would claim that it was there intention to charter out the plane during the LGW layover. But this never happened.

Quoting acedriver (Reply 3):
Not surprising, really. HX is fighting against CX and BA on the London route, and it certainly is not a battle that HX can win.

Not just BA + CX. There's also non-stop competition from VS + NZ. In addition there are those ever powerful Gulf carriers with indirect flights from both London and UK regional airports. HX offered only departures from LGW with no feed traffic from the UK regions.
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:45 pm

Very hard to make $$$ with a full-premium aircraft based in HK. It's already difficult in LHR and JFK...

They absolutely have to retrofit it their A332s and target YVR market IMO. (provided it has the range to do so).
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
by738
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:50 pm

Yip all very predictable and won't be the last of this apparent new breed of international long haul ex LGW. GIP I suppose did well to get them in the first place.
 
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Polot
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
When asked about the poor aircraft utilisation, the carrier's executives would claim that it was there intention to charter out the plane during the LGW layover. But this never happened.

No surprise there. Who would charter an all business class A330 that needs to be back in LGW in 15 hours? That isn't even enough time for a transatlantic roundtrip.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:34 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
they've been ticked off severely by the HK CAA and it's rumoured they're not allowed to use gate positions due to non-payments of fees to HK Airport Authority

So what do they do then?

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day

What could they really do with this time anyway? The only option to better utilize would require changing the arrival and departure times from HKG, correct?

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 6):
i've flown them on numerous occasions, and the service is excellent, and flights punctual

With 15 hours on the ground in LON, I would be very amazed if the flight didn't operate with a good on-time performance stat.

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
When asked about the poor aircraft utilisation, the carrier's executives would claim that it was there intention to charter out the plane during the LGW layover. But this never happened.

What possible "charter" could this airline operate from LGW, that would allow for the aircraft to back to LGW in enough time to make the return trip to HKG? If this was supposed to be a consistent "charter" what kind of flying could they provide or offer flying out of the UK to what possible destinations?
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acedriver
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting VS239 (Reply 7):
Out of curiosity does that allow enough time for the inbound flight crew to fly back the same day?

Yep, the flight crew will probably be stuffed into a LD6 and shipped back to HKG same day via UPS  
Probably one of the causes for the FA strike at HX...
 
BestWestern
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
With 15 hours on the ground in LON, I would be very amazed if the flight didn't operate with a good on-time performance stat.


Never flew them to London, just to Mainland China and down to Singapore. Great service, clean aircraft, friendly crew.

Considering 70 - 80% of the traffic from China to Europe is group lead, ignoring the economy cabin was a radical decision. Adding an economy cabin would have killed per pax yield, but increased revenues dramatically, allowing them to grow the brand in Europe.

With the exception of routes like BKK and SIN which attract many fifth freedom carriers, the HKG market is not over served - there is a niche for Air Hong Kong as a value alternative to the excellent CX and Dragonair. I note that Air HK are to code share with China Eastern on all chinese services from HKG - What does this mean for the Jetstar JV plan?
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:06 pm

The flight is cancelled most days anyway. Like tonight.

Quoting acedriver (Reply 3):
Not surprising, really. HX is fighting against CX and BA on the London route, and it certainly is not a battle that HX can win.

They won't survive regardless of any competition by BA and CX. The flight's wrong from the very beginning. The whole company is wrong indeed.

The only reason people fly them is because they are cheap. On a good day they are fine but every little thing seems to have the potential to escalate into a disaster for this company. Cathay took 3 days to return to normal after the typhoon last week and this bunch is still suffering. Just check the departure board - most flights are late. Management appears to be oblivious to the scale of the problems.

The press carried a story about CAD modifying their AOC to prevent them from getting any more planes.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...ong-airlines-idINL4E8J31LM20120803

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 14):
Great service, clean aircraft, friendly crew.

Poor crew. They are very underpaid and since HX's cleaning contractor at HKIA left allegedly due to unpaid fees (as did their line maintenance contractor, fuellers and the press also reported unpaid parking charges), the poor crew were "forced to volunteer" to clean the aircraft in between flights. That's the reason for your clean aircraft.
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lutfi
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:52 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
they've been ticked off severely by the HK CAA and it's rumoured they're not allowed to use gate positions due to non-payments of fees to HK Airport Authority

So what do they do then?

They park remote & use bus to terminal.
 
HDA212
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:13 am

This certainly doesn't surprise anyone
 
richcandy
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:20 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
What possible "charter" could this airline operate from LGW, that would allow for the aircraft to back to LGW in enough time to make the return trip to HKG? If this was supposed to be a consistent "charter" what kind of flying could they provide or offer flying out of the UK to what possible destinations?

I "guess" flights to cities like VCE,NCE,MRS,BCN etc on behalf of high end cruise operators, might of been a market they could of looked at. However this sort of market would be kind of limited.

Alex
 
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RWA380
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:45 am

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 18):

I "guess" flights to cities like VCE,NCE,MRS,BCN etc on behalf of high end cruise operators, might of been a market they could of looked at. However this sort of market would be kind of limited.

That's pretty creative thinking there Alex, I couldn't come up with anything. Would a HK registered aircraft be able to operate within Europe like that, or would they have to re-register the aircraft each time they flew it within the EU? Like AF/BA used to do with Concorde flying inter-change flights to DFW in collaboration with BN.
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BestWestern
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:46 am

Qantas, from memory used to do this.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
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OA260
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:15 pm

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 18):
I "guess" flights to cities like VCE,NCE,MRS,BCN etc on behalf of high end cruise operators, might of been a market they could of looked at. However this sort of market would be kind of limited.
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 20):
Qantas, from memory used to do this.

Indeed QF used to run charters for the major cruise operators . Shame they dont do it anymore.
 
 
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RWA380
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):
Indeed QF used to run charters for the major cruise operators . Shame they dont do it anymore

Guess it's ok for QF because of their charters being operated from the UK? What allowed a foreign registered aircraft to have the ability to operate rotes in the EU? 5th freedom rights?
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fcogafa
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting FG...

==========
"We believe that a regional model focused on Asia-Pacific is most appropriate for Hong Kong Airlines at this stage of our growth," says airline president Yang Jian Hong in a statement.
==========

This infers that a firm order for B748s and or A380s is very unlikely to happen for a long time, if ever..

[Edited 2012-08-08 06:57:46]
 
LH422
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:24 pm

On a mostly unrelated note, LH is also dropping LGW next winter, after having flown there only for a year.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:30 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
This infers that a firm order for B748s and or A380s is very unlikely to happen for a long time, if ever..

Well, the A 380-order for 10 airframes is firm (see Airbus Orders&Deliveries spread sheet).
 
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:08 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 26):
Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
This infers that a firm order for B748s and or A380s is very unlikely to happen for a long time, if ever..

Well, the A 380-order for 10 airframes is firm

Ooops, but maybe not so firm as before: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...ong-airlines-idUKL4E8J31LM20120803
 
lutfi
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:09 am

Yes, firm doesn't mean will be delivered, but likely need to lose deposit if they never get delivered (or negotiate to trransfer to another aircraft order)
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:13 am

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 24):
"We believe that a regional model focused on Asia-Pacific is most appropriate for Hong Kong Airlines at this stage of our growth," says airline president Yang Jian Hong in a statement.

Its the only thing that truly made sense all along. LGW was never going to work for it, especially using a premium only cabin. No idea what they were thinking.

HKG is an ultra competitive location, so its going to be hard for them to really find a true niche though.
 
gabrielchew
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:32 am

Whilst the LGW-HKG experiment was a nice idea, I never saw this lasting. If they had put a small Y cabin at the back, then there's a chance they'd have been more sucessful. There's just not enough demand nowadays for such an aircraft on such a route on such an airline. Shame, but the cancelleation was inevitable.
http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights: LGW-FNC-PDL-TER-LIS-LUX-LHR-MUC-BRN,BSL-LHR
 
LondonCity
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:54 am

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 31):
If they had put a small Y cabin at the back, then there's a chance they'd have been more sucessful.

Perhaps ... but remember that Oasis tried a two-class B747 on this route a few years ago and that service also failed.
 
fcogafa
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:37 am

Probably as firm as the Virgin order!

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 32):
Whilst the LGW-HKG experiment was a nice idea, I never saw this lasting. If they had put a small Y cabin at the back, then there's a chance they'd have been more sucessful. There's just not enough

Wasn't the problem that the bi-laterals excluded this option as all the permitted Y capacity was used up by the majors?
 
Flyingfox27
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:48 am

I think one of the main reasons is, people dont mind being cramped up for 4 to 6 hours in a LCC short haul plane with no frills etc, but for 12 hours i think many people including myself would rather pay the extra bits for extra comfort for 12 hour flights, i think that they realise this so thats why they are pulling out.
 
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Polot
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:43 pm

Quoting Flyingfox27 (Reply 34):
I think one of the main reasons is, people dont mind being cramped up for 4 to 6 hours in a LCC short haul plane with no frills etc, but for 12 hours i think many people including myself would rather pay the extra bits for extra comfort for 12 hour flights, i think that they realise this so thats why they are pulling out.

You realize this was an all business class flight right? Clearly not enough people were willing to pay the extra bits for extra comfort for 12 hour flights. HX is not an LCC, let alone a ULCC.
 
LH121GLA
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:10 pm

Quoting LH422 (Reply 25):

On a mostly unrelated note, LH is also dropping LGW next winter, after having flown there only for a year.

I think they drop LGW for winter and come back in the summer
 
LH121GLA
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep

Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:13 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 1):

No surprise. Wrong London airport, expensive timings, no feed on either end.

Not true. They did have fares with other airlines to LGW and other airlines from HKG. Whether there was any uptake, only HX will know.

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