Caspian27
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The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:39 pm

I haven't seen this discussed anywhere, but I have noticed all the new deliveries to UA have been with CO style N numbers, ie all numbers not NxxxUA. Does anyone know if UA plans to continue the CO practice or eventually add the UA at the end of the N numbers for new planes?
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
srbmod
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:55 pm

The likely answer there is that since CO already has a bank of registered N-Numbers that they've reserved and paid for (The 787 order predates the merger with United.), it makes sense to use them. Eventually UA will standardize their a/c registrations and I would not be surprised if they stick with the CO practice of all numbers as opposed to an NXXXUA or NXXXXU. United in the past used N-numbers that were all numbers after the N-prefix and it appears that this was applied to their prop a/c while NXXXXU registrations were applied to their jet a/c.
 
rfields5421
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:57 pm

Looking at the FAA Aircraft Registration database - I don't see any banks of unused N numbers for United Airlines Inc

However I see lots of unassigned N numbers reserved for Continental Airlines Inc

My guess would be that since the numbers are already reserved and the fee paid - why bother with extra expense to go to a UA series number.

I don't expect the airline to reregister any aircraft. After using up the CO reserved numbers, they might go back to the UA series. But again - just a guess.
 
AA737-823
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting Caspian27 (Thread starter):
I haven't seen this discussed anywhere, but I have noticed all the new deliveries to UA have been with CO style N numbers, ie all numbers not NxxxUA. Does anyone know if UA plans to continue the CO practice or eventually add the UA at the end of the N numbers for new planes?

It's also important to note that all deliveries since the merger have been "Continental" deliveries; United had no outstanding orders, save for the A350 several years down the road (and several years LONGER, if the A380 and B787 programs are any indication).
So I suspect that we'll see the Continental rego's for the time being.

Also, contrary to what someone in another thread said, there IS a system of reasoning for Continental's registrations.
The first two numbers relate to the aircraft type, IF POSSIBLE. I.e., several 737s start with N73, N37, N33, or whatever. But, due to the large number of civilian-registered aircraft in the USA, this is not always possible.
The third digit indicates fleet subtype; the 737-800s were all Nxx2xx, until they had a hundred of those, then they rolled to Nxx5xx. The 737-900's are Nxx4xx.
The last two digits are the sequential numerical indicator of the aircraft's delivery, i.e. 01, 02, 03, etc...

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
 
gigneil
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:25 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
(and several years LONGER, if the A380 and B787 programs are any indication

They are not.

NS
 
AA737-823
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 4):
They are not.

We'll see. It's already well behind.
But that's not the topic of this particular thread, so let's leave it alone.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:16 pm

It appears to me that the merger has resulted in all things Continental being retained except the name. CO paint scheme and CO registrations.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Caspian27
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 6):
It appears to me that the merger has resulted in all things Continental being retained except the name. CO paint scheme and CO registrations.

That's my impression as well. It just seems like CO was the only US airline left that wasn't using letters as part of the reg numbers. I personally found the old UA system a little easier, N1xxUA for 747, N2xxUA & N7xxUA for 777, etc. Made instant recognition of the type possible by the reg number...IMHO.
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
aznmadsci
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:52 pm

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 6):
It appears to me that the merger has resulted in all things Continental being retained except the name. CO paint scheme and CO registrations.
Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 7):
That's my impression as well.

Because the 788s that will becoming online for UA were originally destined for CO. These birds will be operated by sCO crew and based out of IAH.
The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
 
frosty328
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
United had no outstanding orders,

No true.. L-UAL ordered 25 A350's and 25 787's in December 2009 to replace the 747 and 767 fleets.
 
SWALUV
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 8):
based out of IAH.

No no, the 787 will be operating out of DEN first remember.   
 
frosty328
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 10):
No no, the 787 will be operating out of DEN first remember.

No.. we will be operating the 787 between EWR, IAH, and LAX (maybe MCO) begining in October so the pilots get their required flight time in the aircraft. DEN-NRT doesn't start until 2013.
 
SWALUV
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:54 am

Quoting frosty328 (Reply 11):
we will be operating the 787 between EWR, IAH, and LAX (maybe MCO) begining in October so the pilots get their required flight time in the aircraft. DEN-NRT doesn't start until 2013.

Interesting any chance of hub to hub service like IAH-IAD???? Or am I just getting my hopes up!  
 
frosty328
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:06 am

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 12):
Interesting any chance of hub to hub service like IAH-IAD???? Or am I just getting my hopes up

I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if the company did a tour to all the hubs before they put the aircraft into revenue service. CAL flew the 767 and 777 (revenue flights) between EWR, IAH, LAX, and MCO when they first got the aircraft before they were sent international. These cities are also maintenance facilities. I would expect the same for the 787. The company is planning on IAH-AMS, IAH-LOS, IAH-LAX-PVG, IAH-LAX-NRT and IAH-DEN-NRT in early 2013. Of course that is all subject to change.
 
AA737-823
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:15 am

Quoting frosty328 (Reply 9):
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):United had no outstanding orders,
No true.. L-UAL ordered 25 A350's and 25 787's in December 2009 to replace the 747 and 767 fleets.

Wow... way to selectively quote what I said, while completely ignoring the next four words I typed... allow me to quote myself more thoroughly that you have:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
United had no outstanding orders, save for the A350

I left out the 787, but UA's deliveries were also YEARS away.

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 7):
I personally found the old UA system a little easier, N1xxUA for 747, N2xxUA & N7xxUA for 777, etc. Made instant recognition of the type possible by the reg number...IMHO.

As I explained above, so did the CO system... look at the third digit, and you know exactly the same info as the UA system.
Either way, either system is equally as good at identifying the bird. But then, if you see a 767 pull up, it's not typcal that you're looking for that particular digit, as you already know it's a 767. Where it came in handy with CO was discerning an ex-ATA 757-33N from a CO 757-324.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 6):
It appears to me that the merger has resulted in all things Continental being retained except the name. CO paint scheme and CO registrations.

Head over to Flyertalk; those of us that were CO elites feel very differently.
 
boilerla
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
It's also important to note that all deliveries since the merger have been "Continental" deliveries; United had no outstanding orders, save for the A350 several years down the road (and several years LONGER, if the A380 and B787 programs are any indication).

Slight correction but UA had orders for the 788 and 359 on order. These 788s that are delivered first are CO's order; UA's deliveries are scheduled for 2016. Since pmUA's order is for a far larger amount (25), and are all for 788s (CO's order is split between 788s and 789s) I am guessing the pmUA order will be used to replace the oldest 767s and 777s when they arrive, while the newer deliveries that CO made will be used for new routes.
 
SWALUV
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:20 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 15):
the oldest 767s and 777s when they arrive, while the newer deliveries that CO made will be used for new routes.

That is UA's plan for the 767-300's but with the 777's or the few that are operating domestic, N211UA just to name one( I think last time I checked), will they operate a few 787's like ANA on domestic routes?
 
AirframeAS
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
The last two digits are the sequential numerical indicator of the aircraft's delivery, i.e. 01, 02, 03, etc...

Actually, that isn't correct. The first 787 N number has nothing to do with delivery: N20904. N20902 & N20903 (I believe) is still at the factory getting rework done..... while 904 (line number 53) is the first to be received.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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Schweigend
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:40 am

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 7):
It just seems like CO was the only US airline left that wasn't using letters as part of the reg numbers.

True, CO didn't use letters in its reggos, but there have been exceptions. Here are some interesting photos:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © George W. Hamlin



N26864 747-124 at ORD on 4 Nov 71.
Original Bob Six CAL, using all numbers.



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



N538TX DC9-32 at SAN in Oct 83.
This bird came to CO with Texas International, and was eventually re-registered as N12538. It wears a hybrid livery.



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert M. Campbell
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert M. Campbell



N966C A300B4-203, rr as N14966.
First pic is at PHL in Aug 86, second is EWR in Nov 86. I don't know why the frames delivered to CAL directly from Airbus originally had oddball NxxxC reggos.



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



N213EA A300B4-103 at LAX in Aug 89, rr as N13983.
This is an ex-Eastern bird.

...

I don't think it matters too much whether aircraft are registered NxxxUA or Nabxxx, so long as there are three clear "xxx" numbers included.

Cheers --

Scottie
 
AA737-823
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:30 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
Actually, that isn't correct. The first 787 N number has nothing to do with delivery: N20904. N20902 & N20903 (I believe) is still at the factory getting rework done..... while 904 (line number 53) is the first to be received.

Wow... you guys are really picking nits tonight.
It's GENERALLY CORRECT. As a GENERAL RULE, 777 #001 was delivered before 777 #002.
767 #051 was delivered before 767 #052.
757 #851 was delivered before 757 #852.
737 #401 was delivered before 737 #402.

I suspect that the 787 deliveries are all out of whack. But who knows- maybe someone at ContiNited just thought that the first one should be number 4 to mix things up a big.
 
 
srbmod
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Please keep the discussion on-topic, as the thread is about UA registrations, not where the 787 will be flying from first or future fleet plans in regards to where some a/c types may be shifted to in the future. If users continue to post off-topic, this thread, like some many other United threads as of late, will be locked. Quit hijacking the discussions or else!
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:07 pm

Further complicating the issue is the number of aircraft of the merged fleet, which stands at 700 mainline aircraft. Since most fleets don't have exactly 100 aircraft, the use of 3 numbers isn't enough. Moving forward the use of NXXXUA will not do the trick in the long run. NXXXXU would work, allowing for several thousand aircraft. If the PMCO method is to be kept, it could be hard to fine the final 4 digits to match as today the final 3 just have to match.

At this time there is duplication in the use of several number series.
100 UA 747*, CO 752 & 762*
200 UA 772, CO 738
400 UA 320, CO 739
500 UA 752, CO 738
600 UA 763, CO 735*
700 UA 772, CO 73G
800 UA 319 CO 753
* fleets probably retired within a decade
As some of these fleets go away, numbers could be rationalized, but probably with a 4 digit system, not 3.

the other question is whether the new UA will continue to add a leading digit to indicate configuration. Right now, UA has a leading digit on all fleets except the 744. Continuing to use this system could apply to former/future PMUA units - expadning to PMCO units (which now all have a leading "3") could be problematic if a unified system is to be accomplished sometime in the future.
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Carpethead
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:30 am

How about ending with UC? (or CU if that particular number in UC is already taken.)
Since the merged company parent name is United Continental Holdings.
 
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Schweigend
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 21):
Moving forward the use of NXXXUA will not do the trick in the long run. NXXXXU would work, allowing for several thousand aircraft. If the PMCO method is to be kept, it could be hard to fine the final 4 digits to match as today the final 3 just have to match.

This is a brilliant idea! Using NxxxxU would be perfect, as it would allow the full 4-digit tail number to be incorporated in the registration itself, and avoid the difficulty of finding available Naxxxx numbers. You are right, the combined fleet is HUGE, and the old effective three-digit registrations simply won't do for the future.

Thanks!
 
bhmdiversion
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:26 pm

Sorry for the random question, but I was at ATL several months ago going out of D14 with a Continental 737-500 next to us. There was something painted under the registration but I could not read it. Does anyone know what is under these registrations?
 
United1
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:18 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 24):
There was something painted under the registration but I could not read it. Does anyone know what is under these registrations?

Left over from before SOC...it says "Operated by CALA014A." It's a legal requirement that all airlines operating under a different name have their actual name (or certificate number) somewhere on the aircraft.

Just too throw my two cents into the mix I feel that the N number is really irrelevant to the airline. It's the ship number that
airlines use to identify aircraft....UA (and now CO by adding a 3 in front of the old three digit ship numbers) use a four digit ship number that is painted on the nose somewhere.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
bohica
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:26 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 21):
Moving forward the use of NXXXUA will not do the trick in the long run. NXXXXU would work, allowing for several thousand aircraft. If the PMCO method is to be kept, it could be hard to fine the final 4 digits to match as today the final 3 just have to match.

The NxxxxU registrations have been used by UA before. The Caravelle, 727's, 732's, 747 classics, DC-8's, and DC-10's all had NxxxxU registrations. I believe UA switched to NxxxUA when they took delivery of their first 767 back in the early 80's.

I agree UA should go back to NxxxxU registrations. That way there would be more combinations available.
 
The777Man
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RE: The New UA And N Numbers

Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 21):
the other question is whether the new UA will continue to add a leading digit to indicate configuration. Right now, UA has a leading digit on all fleets except the 744. Continuing to use this system could apply to former/future PMUA units - expadning to PMCO units (which now all have a leading "3") could be problematic if a unified system is to be accomplished sometime in the future.

UA has a leading digit for all PMUA aircraft; 8 is the leading digit for the 747 fleet. The great thing with the PMUA system is that it's possible to know the configuration of the aircraft just by looking at the fleet number; 2829 is a 777 with the new IPTE seats.

It would be great to get the same system on the PMCO aircraft. For the large 737 fleet, it would be possible to use two or perhaps three leading digits.

Current leading digits for the PMUA fleet:

2xxx 777
4xxx 319/320
5xxx 757
6xxx 767
8xxx 747

The777Man
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