ANA787
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PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:06 am

PDX in talks with airlines for service to MEX, SJD. Also in talks with airlines to start PDX-S. Florida.

Wouldn't be surprised to see PDX-MCO return. Could AA start PDX-MIA?

As for Mexico I could see Aeromexico starting PDX service to MEX and maybe Alaska restarting PDX-SJD.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/i...es_coul.html#incart_river_business
 
alexinwa
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:13 am

No no and no,.........If anyone did this, it would be AS. Aeromexico has no appeal in PDX. AS is the boss!
You mad Bro???
 
dtwpilot225
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:32 am

I predict another couple of new routes for Spirit. Definitely the PDX SJD route. I don't know if the 319 could do FLL-PDX, they might have to wait until the neo comes for that.
 
BMI727
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting ANA787 (Thread starter):
Could AA start PDX-MIA?

I'd be more inclined to think JetBlue flying to FLL.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
flymia
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:55 am

I'm thinking NK to FLL. Would love to see AA on PDX-MIA but I don't see that for a while. NK or AS to FLL.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
SANFan
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:46 am

First of all, can someone please explain about the "Virgin America hanger" at PDX that is pictured and mentioned in the article? I certainly hadn't heard anything about VX having a hanger at this airport. So why then is PDX the 18th city to see Virgin service instead of one of the first? (To the best of my knowledge, Virgin's only major maintenance base is at SFO.)

The article includes a lot of stuff said by VX's Cush at an interview in Portland (I assume.) Just for the record, missing is absolutely anything positive involving his airline's future plans for PDX. (Because I'm sure there are none.) His comments were just general "growth" filler for the article.

In other words, this is just another of the many articles discussed lately on A.net where a city newspaper reports that "talks are underway", "the airport is meeting with ... to discuss new flights", "local delegates are traveling to ... to meet with airline route planners about new service from our city...", "our airport managers are seeking flights to ...", etc. (The most recent was an article from Houston -- just a week or two ago.)

The article is a Saturday space-filler with no substance whatever. Of course the PDX route planners (or managers) "hope to reinstate nonstop service to Mexico... We are also evaluating the business case for MCO and ... possibly FLL." (Quoted from a "spokesman" for the Port of Portland.) I'm sure they've been after AS ever since MCO was dropped about re-starting that route, as well as other nonstops. And guess what? If the routes were viable and AS thought they would be profitable, I'm sure the routes would be flown.

If Portland is planning on paying subsidies to cx to start some of these routes, then I guess anything is possible. But on its own, Mexico is still hurting from reduced tourism and business travel from the U.S. and I just don't see nonstops from PDX happening anytime soon. I would love to see some traffic figures of the local markets between PDX and Mexico.

As far as the domestic markets mentioned, the first thing I would check is the DOT traffic reports for those markets. If the numbers are low, it's unlikely that any carrier would be interested in flying them unless some sort of subsidies or guarantees are in place. And again, with a carrier in town that operates a hub there, it would most likely be that carrier that could make marginal routes successful. B6 to FLL? Ain't gonna happen. Transcons from Spirit? I really doubt that will happen anytime soon. (How high on NK's list of 300 potential city-pairs do you suppose PDX-FLL is?)

It's fine to dream and talk about future new service from PDX but the article offered nothing concrete except one or two lines of "hope" and "evaluation" of a couple of destinations that are obviously on PDX's "wish-list".

bb
 
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RWA380
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:07 am

Quoting ANA787 (Thread starter):
PDX in talks with airlines for service to MEX, SJD. Also in talks with airlines to start PDX-S. Florida.

Wouldn't be surprised to see PDX-MCO return. Could AA start PDX-MIA?

As for Mexico I could see Aeromexico starting PDX service to MEX and maybe Alaska restarting PDX-SJD

PDX I'm sure is looking for new services and carriers, as was said above, if something happens n/s to SJD it will be AS, also FLL or MCO. I doubt NK is going to expand PDX to FLL or SJD as those are long routes for an unproven market. PDX is NK's way of seeing how far they can get into the Northwest before AS shoots a bunch of buckshot across their bow.

AA never has, and IMO, never will operate a flight n/s to MIA from PDX, they don't even offer an ORD n/s from PDX, I doubt PDX-MIA is on AA's radar.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
If the routes were viable and AS thought they would be profitable, I'm sure the routes would be flown

This part I agree with, AS is the dog that will run the race if it's ever started, On a side note, OUCH, your crushing our PDX dreams.  
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
HPRamper
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:04 am

No hangar is mentioned in the article. The picture is facing toward Marine Drive which means the hangar shown is over in the GA area or maybe down by UA cargo.
 
ROSWELL41
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:38 pm

These sound like potential NK routes to me.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:47 pm

That picture was taken at the older Flightcraft hangar. I can see a need for nonstop service to Mexico. On our 7pm SFO flight. We have been having large groups of GDL and MEX passengers every night this summer.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:10 pm

This arlicle is taken from the dreams of PDX airport management. There's a reason no one flies to South Florida or Mexico non-stop....like SANFan said you have to run the numbers. If there aren't enough people to justify a route then no one will touch it

AS tried MCO, SJD and PVR...not enough traffic. I could see these all returning, maybe even next year, but 3-4 flights a week at most. Maybe the Portland metropolitan area has grown enough since AS tried these routes prior to the recession and there would now be enough traffic....at the time there wasn't and they were axed.
 
iowaman
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:55 pm

I would be inclined to agree as well that NK would be the best candidate for MCO and/or FLL if or when it happens. Spirit would need to be priced much lower than the many connections available because as stated above there isn't a lot of traffic to begin with.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 11):

I would be inclined to agree as well that NK would be the best candidate for MCO and/or FLL if or when it happens. Spirit would need to be priced much lower than the many connections available because as stated above there isn't a lot of traffic to begin with.

NK hasn't launched anything that long in ages. I don't think NK has any interest in transcons, and it certainly doesn't bother with connections, even in FLL

Quoting Hiflyeras (Reply 10):
This arlicle is taken from the dreams of PDX airport management. There's a reason no one flies to South Florida or Mexico non-stop....like SANFan said you have to run the numbers. If there aren't enough people to justify a route then no one will touch it

I think the volume is there but the fares are obscene.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
point2point
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting Hiflyeras (Reply 10):
like SANFan said you have to run the numbers.

Q4, 2011 FAA PDEW numbers are:

PDX-MCO... 291
PDX-Miami/Fort Lauderdale area...233

Maybe? Although seems to be very, very long, and pretty thin......

 
 
spiritair97
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 2):
I don't know if the 319 could do FLL-PDX,

The a319could definitely do FLL-PDX. The a319 engine with the lowest maximum range is the International Aero Engines V2524-A5. This still gives it 3,131 miles. As per GCM, FLL-PDX is only 2694mi.



Quoting Hiflyeras (Reply 10):
I could see these all returning, maybe even next year, but 3-4 flights a week at most

Well that shouldn't be too hard for NK, given their latest strategy of 3-4flights a week, even on strong routes.
 
EddieDude
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting alexinwa (Reply 1):
If anyone did this, it would be AS. Aeromexico has no appeal in PDX. AS is the boss!

Interesting then that AS has never considered flying PDX-MEX nonstop.

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 9):
I can see a need for nonstop service to Mexico. On our 7pm SFO flight. We have been having large groups of GDL and MEX passengers every night this summer.

MX used to serve PDX from both GDL and MEX... or was it MEX-GDL-PDX? It'd be interesting if AM or Volaris takes any interest in PDX.

Quoting Hiflyeras (Reply 10):
If there aren't enough people to justify a route then no one will touch it

So, are there or are there not enough people between PDX and GDL/MEX? I really can't recall if MX quit way before its demise (in which case loads and/or yields were the culprit) or shortly before suspending ops.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
OB1504
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
First of all, can someone please explain about the "Virgin America hanger" at PDX that is pictured and mentioned in the article? I certainly hadn't heard anything about VX having a hanger at this airport. So why then is PDX the 18th city to see Virgin service instead of one of the first? (To the best of my knowledge, Virgin's only major maintenance base is at SFO.)

I know they also have their new deliveries sent to MIA for pre-acceptance work.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
As far as the domestic markets mentioned, the first thing I would check is the DOT traffic reports for those markets. If the numbers are low, it's unlikely that any carrier would be interested in flying them unless some sort of subsidies or guarantees are in place. And again, with a carrier in town that operates a hub there, it would most likely be that carrier that could make marginal routes successful. B6 to FLL? Ain't gonna happen. Transcons from Spirit? I really doubt that will happen anytime soon. (How high on NK's list of 300 potential city-pairs do you suppose PDX-FLL is?)

With the right incentives, an airline could be motivated to start PDX-FLL, possibly seasonally. If anything, they can just cut their losses and drop the route, something NK has never been afraid to do.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
NK hasn't launched anything that long in ages. I don't think NK has any interest in transcons, and it certainly doesn't bother with connections, even in FLL

FLL is NK's largest connecting hub. The morning and evening banks are specifically tailored to allow for connections between the United States and the Caribbean/Latin America and vice-versa. You're correct that NK isn't pursuing transcon flights at the moment, but they've always tried to maximize connection opportunities.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 14):
Well that shouldn't be too hard for NK, given their latest strategy of 3-4flights a week, even on strong routes.

"Strong routes" get 3-4 flights a day. 3-4 flights a week sounds about right for a new, unproven market, especially considering their limited fleet size. They're still wet leasing an Xtra Airways 737-400 to fly FLL-LGA and back due to an equipment shortage. Besides, NK's target audience doesn't care about frequency or schedule, but price.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 16):
FLL is NK's largest connecting hub. The morning and evening banks are specifically tailored to allow for connections between the United States and the Caribbean/Latin America and vice-versa. You're correct that NK isn't pursuing transcon flights at the moment, but they've always tried to maximize connection opportunities.

They've said they're 90% local, so while they may be timed to connect, they're not driving any volume
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
spiritair97
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
It'd be interesting if AM or Volaris takes any interest in PDX.

I'd bet on Volaris doing PDX before I would AM.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 16):
"Strong routes" get 3-4 flights a day.

I didn't mean Strong just to NK. Take DFW-PHL. They have announced the startof it a 3x weekly. That could definitely be a daily flight at the VERY LEAST. The only very strong routes I see on their schedule with what I believe is maximum frequencies is FLL-LGA.
 
kwbl
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:30 pm

I've never undeerstood the statement "If the route was viable, then someone would already be flying it". If that were the case, then there would be no more new routes to fly.

I think the PDX-Florida routes could work, given the daily passenger loads but there would probably need to be some connectivity on at least one end of the flight. PDX to MCO could be done by AS (PDX feed) or B6 (MCO feed). I know AS did this a few years ago but it went away due to a number of factors, not the least of which was a horrible economy and really expensvive fuel (I think it left in 2008). Within the next year or two, maybe there will be enough rebound to reinstate. I think AA PDX-MIA would be good but would need some help on connections to S. America. I just don't think AA has any realy interest in the PDX market (they have rarely added flights, but have cut almost everything they gained through the mergers of AirCal, RenoAir, and TWA).

Mexico is a large market from Oregon - both leisure and business. I just don't know that any one destination is popular enough to warrant a nonstop flight
 
SANFan
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
Q4, 2011 FAA PDEW numbers are:
PDX-MCO... 291
PDX-Miami/Fort Lauderdale area...233

As in the 'AZA' thread, I'm not sure what kind of "FAA" numbers you are finding point', but the DOT figures (found here):
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/X-5...e_files/consumerairfarereport.htm?
show TOTAL daily traffic which has to be cut in half to produce approximate PDEW numbers.

PDX-MCO averaged, for all 4 quarters of 2011, a PDEW of ~150 O&D. That is probably not going to secure a nonstop -- certainly not daily anyway -- and is probably why AS isn't flying the low-yielding route anymore. No matter how much the Port of Portland would like to see it. (I didn't run the correct S Florida numbers but from your quoted figure, it's less than MCO so again, probably is not likely anytime real soon.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
On a side note, OUCH, your crushing our PDX dreams.

Hey, hey, '380, I said it's great to dream and discuss -- lordy knows I do plenty of that myself -- but some facts and figures help make it realistic. (And a fluff piece like the article quoted means nothing at all.) That's really all I'm saying.

bb
 
MAV88
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
Quoting Hiflyeras (Reply 10):
like SANFan said you have to run the numbers.

Q4, 2011 FAA PDEW numbers are:

PDX-MCO... 291
PDX-Miami/Fort Lauderdale area...233

Maybe? Although seems to be very, very long, and pretty thin......

Boston is a little bigger than both MCO-PDX and MIA/FLL-PDX and it is able to maintain year round service on AS (less than daily off season) and B6.

Are there any important business ties between Portland and Florida? There are some good ties between Boston and Portland.
 
SANFan
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:17 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7):
No hangar is mentioned in the article.

Excuse me 'Ramper. Here's the caption of the picture in the article (taken inside the hangar):

Quote:
Virgin America airlines celebrated its expansion to Portland International Airport in June with the first flight arrival and a party for the Portland business community at the Virgin America hangar. Virgin America CEO David Cush, Portland Mayor Sam Adams and actor Kyle MacLachlan (Portlandia's mayor) spoke after the first flight arrived.

So the article is wrong -- there is no Virgin America hangar?

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 21):
Boston is a little bigger than both MCO-PDX and MIA/FLL-PDX and it is able to maintain year round service on AS (less than daily off season) and B6

Actually, PDX-BOS had a 3Q11 PDEW of ~274, as opposed to PDX-MCO's PDEW of ~141 for the same quarter. That's why BOS sees 2 cx operating 1 flight each... and PDX-MCO sees no service. (That of course is not the only reason but is a good part of why; BOS is also, I assume, a much better yielding -- more business-oriented -- market than Orlando or S Florida.)

Quoting KWBL (Reply 19):
I've never undeerstood the statement "If the route was viable, then someone would already be flying it". If that were the case, then there would be no more new routes to fly.

No, because in 2 years the route COULD be viable and then the airlines, seeing profitability, might fly it. Right now, it's not a route that the airlines feel would make any money. Economies change, fuel prices change, traffic dynamics change, the airlines' strategies change...

bb
 
wnflyguy
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:37 pm

I can see WN adding FL service PDX -SJD and PDX-MEX.
This would go along great with the rumor of WN adding FL STL-MEX and CUN service.
I can see a 2 plane 2day route like
Orig ATL-MDW-CUN- STL(overnight service)MEX(early am flight)-PDX-SJD-SNA-LAS-(red eye)ATL.
Orig ATL-LAS-SNA-SJD-PDX-(red eye)MEX-STL-CUN-MDW-ATL.
Any thoughts? Wnfg 
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
SANFan
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 23):
Any thoughts?

I sure wouldn't bet any money on it...  
Quoting KWBL (Reply 19):
Mexico is a large market from Oregon - both leisure and business.

Figures please. (And please provide a source as I'd love to know where you get your stats for how large a market Oregon-Mexico is.)
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 16):
With the right incentives, an airline could be motivated to start PDX-FLL, possibly seasonally

I mentioned subsidies and guarantees in at least one of my posts in this thread and that certainly changes the playing field. The Portland area has offered these in the past and there's no saying that they won't do it more. As far as the "usual" incentives most airports are allowed to, and do, offer the airlines for new routes, I don't see that swaying a carrier to start a marginal route from PDX as opposed to any other city in a similar situation.

bb
 
kwbl
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:40 pm

I guess I don't have actual links to international destinations. When Mexicana was here, flying ONLY to MEX and or GDL (their schedules changed frequently), they carried over 55,000 passengers each year or about 150 PAX per day. I have readd numerous articles over the year that indicated there well over 100,000 pax per year from Oregon to Mexico. Some of those articles also indicated Mexicana's demise (in addition to the economic factors above) was that they were only capturing a miniscule portion of the leisure destination traffic which was being split mostly between AS, UA(see ramprats response), and US. I don't think it is stretch, even without statistical information, to surmise the market from PDX to Mexico is large - the issue is it large enough to any one destination to generate enough traffic to have a profitable nonstop flight - especially given the numerous connecting opportunities in SFO, PHX, LAX, IAH, and DFW.
 
lhpdx
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:58 pm

SANfan..........Why are you hating on Portland big time? I commend the Port of Portland for trying to attract new service out of PDX.........Are you still upset that Alaska got the flight to National out of PDX and not San Deigo?
 
SANFan
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 27):
SANfan..........Why are you hating on Portland big time? I commend the Port of Portland for trying to attract new service out of PDX...?

I don't how else I can say it, lh', since I've already said it twice on this thread. This thread is fine, opinions and dreams are what A.net is all about. I have never hated Portland and I don't now. I, being in some other city to the south, have actually felt there are many similarities in the civil aviation world between my city and Portland. And I continue to root for the smaller players who are in the shadow of their BIG neighbors to the north!

It is still my opinion that the article that inspired this thread is meaningless (and I said the same about the Houston-one of a couple of weeks ago and most posters on that thread agreed with me. Perhaps you noticed that some folks agreed with me on this thread as well...)

My other point remains that I feel there should be at least an attempt to support a statement of a wish for a new route with some basis. Shouldn't there be a little thought as to why it's even remotely possible that carrier XXX would consider a flight between PDX and ZZZ? (Existing pax traffic numbers in a market are a great place to start.)

There were a couple of destinations specifically mentioned in the article and in the OP. I said I didn't think they were really very likely. Is that a sign of hating PDX? I sure don't see it that way.

And besides...   ... my comments seem to have gotten this weekend-thread off the ground and stirred up some interest!

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 27):
Are you still upset that Alaska got the flight to National out of PDX and not San Deigo?

IF I were upset about that, my anger would go toward the DOT, not PDX (nor AS, or anyone!) Heck, I looked at a couple of seatmaps of SAN's US fight to DCA for later this month and almost every seat shows full! It turns out that, IMHO, both of our cities did very nicely in that hearing - we both got another airport crossed off our "wish-list"!

bb
 
HPRamper
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
Excuse me 'Ramper. Here's the caption of the picture in the article (taken inside the hangar):

Ah. I looked only in the body of the article.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
So the article is wrong -- there is no Virgin America hangar?

Nope. They may have used that hangar for the day but they sure don't have any kind of lease or anything on it.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 28):
My other point remains that I feel there should be at least an attempt to support a statement of a wish for a new route with some basis. Shouldn't there be a little thought as to why it's even remotely possible that carrier XXX would consider a flight between PDX and ZZZ?

Completely agree. Anybody can write a bad article about how executives at airport X want nonstop service to everywhere. Wish in one hand...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:02 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 23):
I can see WN adding FL service PDX -SJD and PDX-MEX.
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
Interesting then that AS has never considered flying PDX-MEX nonstop.
Quoting KWBL (Reply 25):
Some of those articles also indicated Mexicana's demise (in addition to the economic factors above) was that they were only capturing a miniscule portion of the leisure destination traffic

AA and others will sell you a roundtrip ticket PDXMEX for $328 plus taxes. That's $164 each way, spread over 2 segments--a 6.4 cent yield. By contrast, WN's lowest PDXOAK fare around the same time is $164+taxes roundtrip, or a yield of 15 cents. Nobody is going to touch PDX with a ten foot pole.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
SANFan
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:22 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 29):
They may have used that hangar for the day but they sure don't have any kind of lease or anything on it.

Thanks, 'Ramper. I kind of suspected the article was wrong about the hangar.

BTW, I wanted to mention something about Spirit and the suggestions of new PDX-route-possibilities mentioned in this thread: SJD and FLL.

If you look at what NK has done so far on the west coast's new cities -- PDX, OAK, and SAN -- it's routes already served. PDX-Vegas and DFW, OAK-Vegas and DFW, and SAN-Vegas, DFW and Cabo were/are all served by someone else already. NK's list of 300 has never been said to be unserved routes and I would bet most are markets that have service; that makes Spirit's job easier: routes that have service and a good deal of pax traffic so Spirit can slide in and take the ULCC part of that known market. Neither PDX-SJD nor PDX-FLL is served by anyone. That's because they are low-volume routes and I don't think NK would likely select either of those markets.

My guess for PDX expansion by Spirit would be more along the lines of OAK, LAX, SAN and AZA. I would be surprised if they went for DEN, ORD, or DTW; MSP... a little less surprised. Any of these destinations would be far more likely (IMO) than FLL or MCO.

  

bb
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting KWBL (Reply 19):
Mexico is a large market from Oregon - both leisure and business. I just don't know that any one destination is popular enough to warrant a nonstop flight


I don't have figures, I could probably dig some up. But I do know that when I was working in Portland in the mid 2000s, SJD was the number 1 international destination from PDX. This was, of course, before tourist traffic declined into the Mexican resorts starting at the end of the decade. AS did well for a few years with winter nonstops 4x a week and 2 daily directs through SAN or SFO.

Currently direct PDX-SJD is weekends only via SJC, but I've observed consistently that more than 50 percent of the customers on the flight originate in PDX. In the winter however, when SJC-SJD goes daily, it will originate in SEA. PDX-Cabo will be via connection only. If there were an increased demand for seats PDX-SJD nonstop, I'm sure AS would jump on it. In the meantime, AS is playing it safe.

Tom SJC
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RWA380
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:25 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
Interesting then that AS has never considered flying PDX-MEX nonstop.

I am sure they have considered it, if they did it would likely be from SEA instead, the fact they don't shows that the market is really not there for such a long flight.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
MX used to serve PDX from both GDL and MEX... or was it MEX-GDL-PDX? It'd be interesting if AM or Volaris takes any interest in PDX.

MX served PDX-GDL-MEX for several years, MX also served SEA-MZT-MEX and SEA-PVR-MEX for more years than PDX flights operated, but in the end, none survived.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 18):

I'd bet on Volaris doing PDX before I would AM.

I'd bet either flying to SEA before PDX, the fact AS doesn't do this already shows you the market isn't there. Most of us PDX'ers fly via California, Arizona or Texas to Mexico.

Quoting KWBL (Reply 19):
I just don't think AA has any realy interest in the PDX market (they have rarely added flights, but have cut almost everything they gained through the mergers of AirCal, RenoAir, and TWA).

One of the truest statements made in this thread.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 20):
Hey, hey, '380, I said it's great to dream and discuss -- lordy knows I do plenty of that myself -- but some facts and figures help make it realistic. (And a fluff piece like the article quoted means nothing at all.) That's really all I'm saying.

I'm sorry Bob, your cool with me, I was trying to be funny, which is why the big grin icon after my statement.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
Actually, PDX-BOS had a 3Q11 PDEW of ~274, as opposed to PDX-MCO's PDEW of ~141 for the same quarter. That's why BOS sees 2 cx operating 1 flight each... and PDX-MCO sees no service. (That of course is not the only reason but is a good part of why; BOS is also, I assume, a much better yielding -- more business-oriented -- market than Orlando or S Florida.)

Not too many years ago, PDX didn't have a non-stop to BOS, now we have two, who knows maybe FLL or MCO may be down the road, but I agree with you, AS would be flying it from SEA or PDX by now if it were viable.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 23):
I can see WN adding FL service PDX -SJD and PDX-MEX.

Really? WN can't even commit to a non-stop to Southern California from PDX let alone Mexico.

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 27):
SANfan..........Why are you hating on Portland big time? I commend the Port of Portland for trying to attract new service out of PDX.........Are you still upset that Alaska got the flight to National out of PDX and not San Deigo?

Honestly, SANFan is pretty PDX friendly for a guy who doesn't live here, I'm apt to agree with most of what he says, I know he wanted an AS DCA-SAN flight, but was very happy for us when we got one, he's ok in my book. I said Ouch too, dreams are dreams, and airlines don't fly charity routes any more.

Quoting tomassjc (Reply 32):
Quoting KWBL (Reply 19):Mexico is a large market from Oregon - both leisure and business. I just don't know that any one destination is popular enough to warrant a nonstop flight

One of the reasons the WA now DL flights from PSC have survived all these years, I was a travel agent in Hermiston Oregon for a few months until I ran screaming back to Portland, and a good percentage of our business was PSC-SLC-GDL tickets.
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point2point
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:31 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 20):
As in the 'AZA' thread, I'm not sure what kind of "FAA" numbers you are finding point', but the DOT figures (found here):
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/X-5...e_files/consumerairfarereport.htm?
show TOTAL daily traffic which has to be cut in half to produce approximate PDEW numbers.

My brain was still in that amuck state.........


  
 
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ramprat74
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:35 pm

I read that same article in the Sunday Oregonian. It's just bad journalism from the Oregonian as usual. I stopped reading that dead fish rapper over tens years ago. My fiancee subscribes to it, not me.
 
HPRamper
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:53 pm

The Columbian is a better paper, honestly.
 
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:22 pm

Alright...... Alright....Maybe I was a little brass and way to protective of our little airport that could.(PDX)...Sanfran you personally should understand my passion for my home airport for you share the same for yours..Take care bud.............
 
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:58 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
there is no Virgin America hangar?

There is no VX hangar. The hangar in the photo is next to the Boeing paint hangar. Years ago, Skywest did maintenance back there, along with ATI/BAX Global. I got to sit in the cockpit of a DC-8 when they were doing some engine work.

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 35):
I read that same article in the Sunday Oregonian. It's just bad journalism from the Oregonian as usual. I stopped reading that dead fish rapper over tens years ago.

Who is this rapper "Dead Fish?" Anyway, if you don't read the paper, how did you read the article in the Sunday O? Just askin'....

 
 
SANFan
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 33):
Honestly, SANFan is pretty PDX friendly for a guy who doesn't live here, I'm apt to agree with most of what he says...
Quoting lhpdx (Reply 37):
Sanfran you personally should understand my passion for my home airport for you share the same for yours..Take care bud.............

Guilty as charged! Correct on all counts. And thanx to you both. I'll salute all of you local A.netters next time I head across the rivers as I pass through the City of Roses - indeed a very pretty city!

Quoting point2point (Reply 34):
My brain was still in that amuck state.

I travel a lot and that's a state I spend a lot of time in myself...  

bb
 
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RWA380
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:25 am

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 37):
Alright...... Alright....Maybe I was a little brass and way to protective of our little airport that could.(PDX)...

How could you not be PDX is the best airport out there, I really challenge you to find an airport that is more user friendly than PDX. I enjoy departing my hometown airport, I live right downtown, so I can take a 30 minute train ride and I'm in the airport ready to check in, the prices at retailers and service businesses are to be commensurate with what that same retailer charges anywhere else in the Portland area. We have a nice variety of shops and places to eat in several price ranges, and the list goes on, C concourse is my favorite and I know if it were me not living here but another Northwest city, I'd try and connect PDX whenever it would be prudent to do so vs SEA, SFO or LAX. Sorry for the rant, I love PDX as well.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 39):
Guilty as charged! Correct on all counts. And thanx to you both. I'll salute all of you local A.netters next time I head across the rivers as I pass through the City of Roses - indeed a very pretty city!

Thanks for the kind words about our beautiful home, honestly if I did not live here in Portland, I'd be living in San Diego, also a very beautiful place, the similarities of our cities are many, despite the weather. But we both have a much larger city/airport just north of us which keeps us off International airlines radar, we have a good mix of carriers that get us to most important places in the US non-stop, and some International. SAN has LHR and Mexican resort cities, PDX has NRT and AMS but no Mexico.

If you ever stop in PDX I'd love to meet for coffee...
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LV
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:35 am

Somehow I see the "talks" going like this:

PDX: "Please start flights to FLL or SJD, please????"
AS/NK: "Have you seen the price of fuel lately? No way, we can't make any money on that."
PDX: "But we have bacon flavored donuts!"
AS/NK: "Oh, bacon flavored donuts! But seriously, have you seen the price of fuel?"
 
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RWA380
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:46 am

Quoting LV (Reply 41):
PDX: "But we have bacon flavored donuts!"

And dang if those bacon/maple bars aren't extremely good, Another reason I love my hometown, Portland Oregon... Voodoo donuts. I live less than a mile away from their downtown location, it's only for when friends come in from out of town.
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ramprat74
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:52 pm

Like I mentioned up top. That picture was taken in the old Flightcraft hangar. You can see Marine Drive in the background. The two AMC hangars are a lot bigger.

 
HPRamper
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:36 pm

No, no...they are *bacon-topped* maple bars!

mmmm.
 
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RWA380
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 44):
No, no...they are *bacon-topped* maple bars!

mmmm

Your right, I remember being impressed that the two tastes together were way better than good. We do enjoy the most incredible spot in the country to live, sans a little more rain than say, Phoenix, we got it made here. I live downtown in the Pearl and couldn't be happier, I've moved away from Portland 6 times, and each time I eventually came back for it's great way of life and cost of living, still better than most other cool places to live like San Francisco and Honolulu, both places I've lived, but came back here from.
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RWA380
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:19 am

Quoting LV (Reply 41):
PDX: "Please start flights to FLL or SJD, please????"
AS/NK: "Have you seen the price of fuel lately? No way, we can't make any money on that."
PDX: "But we have bacon flavored donuts!"
AS/NK: "Oh, bacon flavored donuts! But seriously, have you seen the price of fuel?"

If AS were going to add another east Coast destination I'd expect EWR first vs FLL. SJD could work on a less than weekly basis seasonally. Cabo really is the only part of Mexico you can vacation and be more or less removed from the violence that has happened on the main body of Mexico, it only has a few real big drug routes that cartels want to control at any cost.
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hiflyeras
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting tomassjc (Reply 32):
Currently direct PDX-SJD is weekends only via SJC,

Not true....daily direct service to SJD is available on AS thru SFO. As far as I can tell this flight in in the schedule throughout the upcoming winter season as well.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 47):
Not true....daily direct service to SJD is available on AS thru SFO. As far as I can tell this flight in in the schedule throughout the upcoming winter season as well.



Sorry HiFlyer, you're so right! For some reason it shows broken up PDX-SFO and then SFO-SJD in my availability display, but it's flight 234 all the way!   

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
BigGSFO
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:58 pm

I can see AS adding EWR and possibly more ORD and perhaps DFW out of PDX. Not South Florida though. Maybe a post bankruptcy AA will be more aggressive with expansion to MIA, but PDX would be after SAN, SNA, in my opinion.
 
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RWA380
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RE: PDX In Talks To Start Service To Mexico/S. Florida

Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:00 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 49):
I can see AS adding EWR and possibly more ORD and perhaps DFW out of PDX. Not South Florida though. Maybe a post bankruptcy AA will be more aggressive with expansion to MIA, but PDX would be after SAN, SNA, in my opinion.

Your insight sounds right to me, couldn't argue with what you said..............
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