hellogorgeous
Topic Author
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:04 am

HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:10 am

What are your thoughts on HA ordering the A320 NEOs to fly thin West Coast-HNL and inter-island routes?

I don't think A330s can sustain HNL to SMF, OAK, PDX, and SEA. The 767s and 717s will need to be replaced within 10 years.

From my understanding the NEOs will be powered by the PW1000G. Sort/medium range aircraft such as the C Series and MRJ will also be powered by a variation of the engine. Does this mean the PW1000s will be better suited flying shorter routes than the 737 MAX's CFM engines? I know Aloha had problems flying 737-400s with the CFMs on inter island routes. If so, the NEOs could fly West Coast and inter islands flights, which would increase aircraft utilization and revenue per aircraft.

NEO's could replace 767s by offering more frequencies and also open new markets such as COS, RNO, ONT, TUS, ABQ.
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3956
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:23 am

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):

I don't think A330s can sustain HNL to SMF, OAK, PDX, and SEA.

Sure they can. It's hardly a large increase in number of seats from the 767.

If they were to change their stately and start flights from the mainland to LIH/KOA, sure, but I see no good reason that will happen.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
BMI727
Posts: 11094
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:27 am

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts on HA ordering the A320 NEOs to fly thin West Coast-HNL and inter-island routes?

Not going to happen.

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):
The 767s and 717s will need to be replaced within 10 years.

Probably not actually. Maybe the 717s, but the 767s are fairly young and won't be going anywhere for some time. The A330s are mostly for expansion. I think right now only three 767s are scheduled to be removed from the fleet. Half of the 767s are over 20 years old and half are under 11 according to what I've found.

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):
NEO's could replace 767s by offering more frequencies and also open new markets such as COS, RNO, ONT, TUS, ABQ.

I doubt any of those markets with the possible exception of Ontario can sustain nonstop service to Hawaii on any aircraft.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
SWALUV
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:28 am

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts on HA ordering the A320 NEOs to fly thin West Coast-HNL and inter-island routes?

Maybe LIH-Main Land as previously stated but it would be perfect for inter island routes.

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):
NEO's could replace 767s by offering more frequencies and also open new markets such as COS, RNO, ONT, TUS, ABQ.

NEO's to COS from the island's????? Highly Doubt it. ABQ and TUS also seem out of range and maybe would face restrictions due to the heat during the summer.
 
redrooster3
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:35 am

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:35 am

There have been earlier threads on this,

HA & 738 MAX Or 739ER (by olddominion727 Jan 13 2012 in Civil Aviation)

What If HA Ordered NB's? (by redrooster3 Dec 20 2011 in Tech Ops)

The conclusion was that the market is already over saturated with AA, DL, UA, G4, AS, and WS to even sustain profitability. HA has looked at 752's, but didn't want to mix the fleet, and couldn't come up with a good price on the order, so HA didn't order. The 767 has a lower seat/mile cost than the 737, and the 320. So it wouldn't fit correctly into's HA fleet.
The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
 
SWALUV
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:37 am

Any chance of a 787 or 767-400 order???
 
hnl-jack
Posts: 251
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 10:34 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:58 am

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 5):
Any chance of a 787 or 767-400 order??

Highly unlikely with the A-350's on order.
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:13 am

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):
I don't think A330s can sustain HNL to SMF, OAK, PDX, and SEA. The 767s and 717s will need to be replaced within 10 years.

I think that if SAN can sustain an a330, I think SEA and OAK can.
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8120
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:08 am

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 5):
or 767-400 order???

- Why would on earth they order these when they have new A330's on the fleet, more to come and A350's in the pipeline?
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3209
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:20 am

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 8):
- Why would on earth they order these when they have new A330's on the fleet, more to come and A350's in the pipeline?

Because one too many a.netters think every airline should have every airplane on the market, just because everyone else has them.

If they bothered to do 5 seconds (10 on a slow connection) of research, they would get their answer rather fast!  
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 4441
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:33 am

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):
HNL to SMF, OAK, PDX, and SEA

PDX and SEA have sustained L-1011, DC-10 and now 767 service by HA since the mid eighties, I think a 330 will be just fine serving any of the above cities you mentioned.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3140
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 3):
NEO's to COS from the island's????? Highly Doubt it. ABQ and TUS also seem out of range and maybe would face restrictions due to the heat during the summer.

I'd be more worried about COS-islands. 6200 foot elevation and 100 degree temps would really put a hole in your payload.

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 3):
Maybe LIH-Main Land as previously stated but it would be perfect for inter island routes.

Except for cooking the engines. There's a reason you don't see any CFM or IAE powered aircraft doing the interisland hops.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
SWALUV
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:17 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 11):
Except for cooking the engines.

Are we sure that the NEO's and MAX's are going to suffer the same fate as the NGX's or the A320's???
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:32 pm

TUS is also a 100 miles to the south of PHX. They have a 767 to PHX and most people drive the distance in an hour and a half to get to a HA flight. I would think if the demand was high they would upgrade to the 330.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 11):
Except for cooking the engines. There's a reason you don't see any CFM or IAE powered aircraft doing the interisland hops.


Yep, AQ cooked the engines of the 737-400's on their inter-island flight. The turn time and low flight altitudes did not allow time for the cores to cool down enough and they were causing high engine wear. the 717 is working well for HA and they have enough to cover their market. They are adding turboprops to their fleet in the future and this could be a possible replacement for the 717. The turboprops solve a lot of this problems, but the public perception is what would need to be changed. IMHO

Type Date of delivery

767-332 01/10/2006 N594HA 6 years old
767-332 01/10/2006 N596HA 6 Years Old
767-332 01/10/2006 N597HA 6 Years Old
767-332 01/10/2006 N598HA 6 Years Old
767-3G5ER 10/05/2002 N585HA 10 Years Old
767-3G5ER 22/03/2002 N584HA 10 Years Old
767-3G5ER 01/07/2002 N586HA 10 Years Old
767-33AER 04/03/2002 N583HA 10 Years Old
767-33AER 14/11/2001 N582HA 11 Years Old
767-33AER 24/09/2001 N580HA 11 Years Old
767-33AER 24/10/2001 N581HA 11 Years Old
767-33A/ER 23/09/2002 N587HA 10 Years Old
767-33A/ER 13/11/2002 N589HA 10 Years Old
767-3CBER 24/10/2002 N588HA 10 Years Old
767-3CBER 06/12/2002 N590HA 10 Years Old
767-3CBER 03/02/2003 N592HA l9 Years Old

Also remember that the cycles are low on these planes as they are flying such far distances.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4606
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 13):
767-332 01/10/2006 N594HA 6 years old
767-332 01/10/2006 N596HA 6 Years Old
767-332 01/10/2006 N597HA 6 Years Old
767-332 01/10/2006 N598HA 6 Years Old

Those are the dates when HA got the planes. These were all built in 1986.

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 13):
767-3G5ER 10/05/2002 N585HA 10 Years Old
767-3G5ER 22/03/2002 N584HA 10 Years Old
767-3G5ER 01/07/2002 N586HA 10 Years Old
767-33AER 04/03/2002 N583HA 10 Years Old

Manufactured in 1989 or 1992(the last one).

The other 8 were all delivered new to HA.
 
Spacepope
Posts: 3140
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 12):
Are we sure that the NEO's and MAX's are going to suffer the same fate as the NGX's or the A320's???

Why do you put apostrophes before the s? It's A320s not A320's!

I'd wager it should be thought of as a problem till shown not to be. With a geared fan, the problem could very well be worse.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
SWALUV
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:43 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 15):
It's A320s not A320's!

OOPS!
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting hellogorgeous (Thread starter):
What are your thoughts on HA ordering the A320 NEOs to fly thin West Coast-HNL and inter-island routes?

I think they would be horrible for inter-island routes and dont see what routes that HA would fly from HNL to west coast that would make it profitable to order a new fleet type.
 
fpetrutiu
Posts: 643
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 17):
I think they would be horrible for inter-island routes and dont see what routes that HA would fly from HNL to west coast that would make it profitable to order a new fleet type.

Acctually I agree with you. The NEO will loose all benefits they say they have over the MAX on those short trips.It is well known that the MAX is expected to be more efficient on those sectors than the NEO, just like the NG is over the A320.

If anything the C-series or the E-jets would serve HA best as replacements for the NB's.
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:30 pm

This could be the domain for A319NEO, less the 320.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22948
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: HA To Order A320 NEO?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting SWALUV (Reply 3):
Maybe LIH-Main Land as previously stated but it would be perfect for inter island routes.
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 17):
I think they would be horrible for inter-island routes and dont see what routes that HA would fly from HNL to west coast that would make it profitable to order a new fleet type.
Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 18):
Acctually I agree with you. The NEO will loose all benefits they say they have over the MAX on those short trips.It is well known that the MAX is expected to be more efficient on those sectors than the NEO, just like the NG is over the A320.

Per this thread in TechOps - Why No NG Boeing 737's Flying HI Inter-island? (by Valorien Jul 17 2012 in Tech Ops) - the CFM56 engine isn't really suited for the kind of flying inter-island missions require. Unless LEAP-X addresses this, that rules out the MAX and if the GTF also suffers the same, then that rules out the A320neo and the C-Series.