gen2stew
Topic Author
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:15 pm

No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:13 am

While on a WN flight I overheard a conversation between a few pilots and cabin crew that the -800 is not working out as planned and that WN had deferred future deliveries to the -MAX. Any truth to this?
I don't know why blessings wear disguises. If I were a blessing, I'd run around nude!
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1539
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:36 am

Lol! No. Some were deferred due to saving money but they are still coming.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:10 pm

I know that I don't work for WN, but I did chat with a pilot during my layover in BWI a few weeks ago and he said the exact opposite. He said that WN all the NG aircraft, including the -800. He said the -800 was working out better than they had expected. Granted the crews aren't always the most informed, this guy seemed very knowledgeable.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11857
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 1):
Lol!

My first response.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
He said the -800 was working out better than they had expected. Granted the crews aren't always the most informed, this guy seemed very knowledgeable.

All indications are that the 738 is working for WN. If anything, I expect WN to slow growth by retiring 733s when they are due to heavy maintenance.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:55 pm

To Sum up here...

Quoting gen2stew (Thread starter):
-800 is not working out as planned

Not True...

Quoting gen2stew (Thread starter):
WN had deferred future deliveries to the -MAX

True...but for different reasons.

usflyguy pretty much got it down correctly.

WN's plan was indeed to take as many -800's as they could within a year, starting with I believe the count was around 34. However due to the cost within WN (not so much -800's cost), WN needed to defer the deliveries to help save some money and control the companies cost. They have a target in mind they want to bring in before WN can consider expanding/growing without cutting a single route or station.

By deferring the -800's, WN has slowed down the -300 retirement, I believe the -500's are still leaving at a rate but I am not sure how fast. (As lightsaber guessed correctly)

WN plans to keep the fleet quite stagnant, by getting rid of the 717's, halting the -300 retirement and slowing down the -800 deliveries there won't be too much aircraft fleet growth in terms of numbers.

As many have noticed and said over and over, WN's cost is not just high, but also rising, and WN is acting very quickly and reacting in a way to increase revenue in every way possible to control the high cost going on at the company.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
strfyr51
Posts: 2139
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:33 pm

rigning in costs is a no brainer. WN is going the responsible route as they really have nobody that they need to compete with. They are in a Niche of their own and nobody is going to usurp them anytime soon
 
frontierflyer
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:35 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:55 pm

Anything that can lower CASM and increase revenue will work.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:32 pm

Per their earnings call from two weeks ago, they were quite upbeat about the 738.

Southwest Post Q2 Profit - $228mil (by LAXintl Jul 19 2012 in Civil Aviation)

More specifically they said:

Newly introduced 737-800s producing results, contributing to the bottom line. Will have 34 on property by end of 2012.

and

2013 no fleet growth, slight ASM increase as 737-700/800s with extra seats arrive and 717s depart.

Sounds like the -800 is doing fine, and more are on the way...
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:34 pm

What are the chances we will EVER see a 717 in WN colors? I know they're leaving soon, but it would be nice to have something other than a 737 in WN colors.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1664
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4):
I believe the -500's are still leaving at a rate but I am not sure how fast.

So far there are 4 -500s that have been retired, with one more due for retirement in October.

I am sure somebody else pointed this out, but if you see any plane in the WN fleet that doesn't have winglets, odds are it wont be in the fleet much longer..

[Edited 2012-08-06 09:35:39]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
User avatar
kgaiflyer
Posts: 2589
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting gen2stew (Thread starter):
I overheard a conversation between a few pilots and cabin crew that the -800 is not working out as planned

Maybe not as planned to Hawaii, but they're going out of BWI full-up.

And if they put one on IAD-MDW, it would be full-up   
 
cargolex
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:20 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8):
What are the chances we will EVER see a 717 in WN colors?

With the deal for them to leave done, essentially zero.

But if you want to see another aircraft in (admittedly older) Southwest colors, there are photos of the small number of 727s WN operated in 1979 and later in the 1980s.
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4113
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8):
What are the chances we will EVER see a 717 in WN colors?

Umm about 0.0000000000000000000000001% at this point.  
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1664
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8):
What are the chances we will EVER see a 717 in WN colors? I
http://www.aimhigherjets.com/Boeing-...thwest-Airlines-Model-p/swa717.htm

That's about it..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2496
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 3):
If anything, I expect WN to slow growth by retiring 733s when they are due to heavy maintenance.

I agree, but can only slow so much since they've committed to replacing the 717 1 to 1. By agreeing to do that, they've made it hard to trim any excess capacity like DL and UA were able to do in their mergers.

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 5):
WN is going the responsible route as they really have nobody that they need to compete with. They are in a Niche of their own and nobody is going to usurp them anytime soon

But they do compete with the legacy carriers now. They changed the business model away from peripheral airport and now serve business centers direct. Plus their labor costs are now among the highest in the domestic industry. They need more -800's to lower costs.
 
737tdi
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:05 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting toltommy (Reply 14):
But they do compete with the legacy carriers now. They changed the business model away from peripheral airport and now serve business centers direct. Plus their labor costs are now among the highest in the domestic industry. They need more -800's to lower costs.




Now how the heck do you know that? Not picking on you. I just here this alot on here. How does one determine the cost of employees at a company? What if I do twice the work of another airlines employee? Does that make my hourly wage 50% less? Look at the number of employees at WN and compare that with the norm. of other airlines. WN's labor costs per the number of aircraft is well below the other airlines. They now pay some of the best wages to retain and recruit the best they can get. JMO.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 13):
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8):
What are the chances we will EVER see a 717 in WN colors? I
http://www.aimhigherjets.com/Boeing-...thwest-Airlines-Model-p/swa717.htm

That's about it..

Reminds me of when Flight Miniatures went ahead and offered a FL 73G model in the old (1997) colors (of which I purchased) when it turned out later that FL launched their first 73G in their current (then-new) scheme.

Too bad, Flight Miniatures doesn't do similar w/the WN 717; it'd be a lot cheaper to purchase than the one offered by Aim Higher Jets.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Revo1059
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:14 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12):
Umm about 0.0000000000000000000000001% at this point.

So yer sayin theres a chance!!!!! (a classic movie)
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting gen2stew (Thread starter):
While on a WN flight I overheard a conversation between a few pilots and cabin crew

..Well there's your first problem.

Quoting gen2stew (Thread starter):
that the -800 is not working out as planned

My opinion is that this is the first time that WN has had a "sensitive" airplane with regards to weight and balance. The -700 is stubby and wide. In normal operation, I don't think you can make it so tail heavy that it touches the ground. The -800 might be able to, so you have to be careful. Also, it's a heavier plane that we are used to so landing in MDW and such has caused some weight issues at the departure station. The -800 is a fantastic airplane, but I think that employees thought it would be the end all be all of airplanes and that it'll lift and do anything you give it. When in reality, this is normal operation for nearly every other airline out there.

I also think that it's very popular to hate the -800 at WN. WN doesn't do change well so when it happens, people tend to freak out. I often hear people say, "Oh, I cant stand the -800!" and so I ask why they hate it. Hardly anyone has been able to give me a reason as to why they "hate" it. They usually just stand there and say, "uhhh, umm, it's an -800!" Ok, but what about the plane is so bad? "Ummm, uhhhh.... it's longer!" Yeah, ok....

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 10):
And if they put one on IAD-MDW, it would be full-up

It's currently flown LAX-LAS and it is 175. Not 174.... 175. We have always joked that we could put an -800 on the LAX-LAS route and it would be full too. Well, the Company sure showed us.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
PanAm788
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:43 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 15):

There's a difference between cost of labor and efficiency of labor. Where labor can be numerically differentiated, ie in gate agents or rampers, efficiency comes into play when we talk about "cost of labor". For example, it is better to have two happy rampers who make $55,000 a year and work as hard as three disgruntled rampers who make $40,000 year (I'm making all these numbers up by the way). The cost of labor may appear higher for the airline who pays its rampers $55,000 a year, but in reality, it's saving money because it's workers try harder.

But when labor cannot be numerically differentiated, efficiency isn't included. The FAA requires X crewmembers to operate a 737-800. WN has X crewmembers, DL has X crewmembers, and so on. If WN pays its employees higher, they might be nicer to the customers, but they are overall doing the same job as the lesser paid crewmembers on other airlines. Thus the cost of labor is higher for WN due to higher wages in some instances.
You know nothing Jon Snow
 
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:50 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8):
What are the chances we will EVER see a 717 in WN colors? I know they're leaving soon, but it would be nice to have something other than a 737 in WN colors.
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 12):
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8):
What are the chances we will EVER see a 717 in WN colors?

Umm about 0.0000000000000000000000001% at this point.  

Southwest id going to pay to have the 717s painted in Delta Airlines colors.
Why would Southwest paint an aircraft twice?   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
chrisair
Posts: 1787
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting gen2stew (Thread starter):
While on a WN flight I overheard a conversation between a few pilots and cabin crew that the -800 is not working out as planned and that WN had deferred future deliveries to the -MAX.

Well, since pilots are the most informed people at the company, and the FAs are the second most, this must be true...

 
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 18):
It's currently flown LAX-LAS and it is 175. Not 174.... 175. We have always joked that we could put an -800 on the LAX-LAS route and it would be full too. Well, the Company sure showed us.

I sat next to a few WN FAs on a PHX parking lot bus who were complaining about the 738s. Apparently a lot of employees are non-reving on them "just to fly the -800." They were upset since they had to do non-rev on a multi-stop flight home since "there were too many non-revs flying for no reason" on the 738.
 
jreuschl
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:04 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 21):
non-reving on them "just to fly the -800."

Sounds like they could all be airliners.net members   I think all of us on here would book a flight based on aircraft type. But that's for another tread...
 
737tdi
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:05 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 19):
The FAA requires X crewmembers to operate a 737-800. WN has X crewmembers




I agree with most of your points. Alls I'm saying is that WN uses/employees a much smaller work force for the number of flights/aircraft.

As far as the FAA requiring a certain number of crew members, remember this is only the number required to physically operate the aircraft with passengers. They have no such number regarding mechs., cleaners, ramp agents, ops. agents, etc.. An airline can run as lean as they want as long as all is done correctly.
 
rising
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:59 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:29 pm

Didn't they only install two lavs on the 800's, like on the 700's. How is that working out?
If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1539
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting rising (Reply 24):

No. 3 lavs.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
rising
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:59 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:40 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 25):

Is it one in the front and two in the rear? (I am glad to hear that by the way I always thought it was just 2, from a prior thread. Cross-country on a 700 usually has a line the whole way I couldn't imagine on an 800!)
If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11006
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting gen2stew (Thread starter):
a few pilots and cabin crew that the -800 is not working out as planned and that WN had deferred future deliveries to the -MAX.

You do know all of WN's B-737MAX orders are for the B-737-8MAX, they are the launch customer for the type. I don't think anyone has ordered the B-737-7MAX yet.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8):
but it would be nice to have something other than a 737 in WN colors.

WN flew 3 or 4 B-727-200s from about 1972 to about 1985 or so. They started out with just 3 B-737-200s in 1971, I think.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:58 pm

Quoting rising (Reply 26):

IMHO, using a -700 on a transcon is pretty silly for this one reason. If an airline really insists to use a -700 on such a route, add another Lav.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
alggag
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:34 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:07 am

I really don't see how -800s wouldn't be working out. It's no secret that WN's fares have gone up quite a bit and load factors are also higher than ever and it's not uncommon to see flights totally sold in advance making it impossible to buy a full fare ticket even if you wanted to. On top of that, isn't the cost to operate a -800 supposedly very similar to the -700?
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11857
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:32 am

Quoting toltommy (Reply 14):
I agree, but can only slow so much since they've committed to replacing the 717 1 to 1. By agreeing to do that, they've made it hard to trim any excess capacity like DL and UA were able to do in their mergers.

Agreed. But once they have a single crew and single aircraft, WN will be very flexible and that should prime them for future growth.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
I don't think anyone has ordered the B-737-7MAX yet.

I'm not aware of any order. In fact, orders for the A319NEO are very sparse too. I've posted before how each engine upgrade on the 737 family has 'up-gauged' the preferential size.

At first it was the 732.
Then with an engine upgrade it was the 733 (not the 732 sized 735).
Then with the NG, which had a wing and engine upgrade, the most popular size has been the 738 (not the 73G at the 733 size).

The MAX will undoubtedly make the 739 length far more popular. The question is, will the 738 or 739 be the most popular? In other words, the 73G is fated to become the next 736. Who would loan money on that airframe? WN will probably have little choice once interest rates are included.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
IMHO, using a -700 on a transcon is pretty silly for this one reason.

Its silly on CASM. Turn time no longer applies as a major cost variable on TCON flights. Most of those should be 738s.

Quoting alggag (Reply 29):
it's not uncommon to see flights totally sold in advance making it impossible to buy a full fare ticket even if you wanted to.

Really? That is poor yield management in a very classy fashion.   

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Caspian27
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:48 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 21):
I sat next to a few WN FAs on a PHX parking lot bus who were complaining about the 738s. Apparently a lot of employees are non-reving on them "just to fly the -800." They were upset since they had to do non-rev on a multi-stop flight home since "there were too many non-revs flying for no reason" on the 738.

I'd bet it's because there were more open seats. Pretty simple logic, when you're nonrevving you have to go where the seats are.
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:50 am

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 31):

I have to agree. Non-revving on the sole reason it's a 738 and a new plane type, but you're right..... Go where the sears are. FA's shouldn't be complaining about the non-revs. It's like crying over spilt milk, IMO.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1660
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:06 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 21):
I sat next to a few WN FAs on a PHX parking lot bus who were complaining about the 738s. Apparently a lot of employees are non-reving on them "just to fly the -800." They were upset since they had to do non-rev on a multi-stop flight home since "there were too many non-revs flying for no reason" on the 738.

So??? Hows that the -800s fault? And why can't non-FA employees fly just to fly... it IS the Freedom to Fly, no? Welcome to the world of Non-reving. Sounds to me that the FAs are just mad because flights are full. FAs are not owed a seat anymore than another NRV Employee.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
AU795
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:31 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:24 am

Any Southwest employee (ramp, hdq, csa) can sit in the extra cabin jumpseats. On the -800 there are two additional jumpseats in the rear galley. It can be very difficult to work back there and get the carts pulled out and set up if you have two additional jumpseaters as they can not move, even stand up as long as the seatbelt sign is on. Personally, I like the aircraft, but I can see why people complain if the flight is full and they have 2 non-reving jumpseaters in the back.
 
arffguy
Posts: 106
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:20 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:01 am

I recently flew on the -800 from Vegas to Chicago. It was OK except it seemed to take forever to load everyone on board. With longer flights you had better bring your own IFE though!
Time to spare, go by air.
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4113
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:24 am

Quoting Revo1059 (Reply 17):
So yer sayin theres a chance!!!!! (a classic movie)

Everything is always subject to change until it is actually done...especially in this industry. LOL
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 1474
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:38 am

Quoting AU795 (Reply 34):
It can be very difficult to work back there and get the carts pulled out and set up if you have two additional jumpseaters as they can not move, even stand up as long as the seatbelt sign is on.

Are you saying that WN is finally joining the 21st century and installed CARTS on the -800's?
 
spiritair97
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:28 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:49 am

Quoting Hiflyeras (Reply 37):

I like that there are no carts. Since they only bring a few drinks out at a time, not only does the absense of the cart make the plane feel less-claustrophobic, it makess it seem classier. Would you rather see the F/A carrying a tray like a waitor/waitress, or somebody pushing a bulky, ugly big metal cart, pulling drinks and snacks out of random doors and hatches? It makes it seem a little more personal, as well. This is one of the reasons I love flying WN. Jame with B6.
 
AU795
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:31 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:03 am

Quoting Hiflyeras (Reply 37):

Yes, we are using half carts on the -800's. Each FA works off their own half cart. Trays are being tested for short flights, but as of now FA's are suppose to use the carts on all flight regardless of length. Did PHX-SNA (blocked at 1 hour 10min.) with 175 and the carts worked fine. People just don't like change.
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 1413
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:06 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
WN flew 3 or 4 B-727-200s from about 1972 to about 1985 or so.

I didn't think their 727s lasted 13 years. I thought it was a very short-term deal, like a year or two tops. IIRC, they did operate 727s on two separate occasions, though.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word, and doesn't even make sense.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4706
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:41 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 20):
Delta Airlines colors.

Air Lines

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 23):
As far as the FAA requiring a certain number of crew members, remember this is only the number required to physically operate the aircraft with passengers. They have no such number regarding mechs., cleaners, ramp agents, ops. agents, etc.. An airline can run as lean as they want as long as all is done correctly.

yep only for Cabin crew.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
At first it was the 732.
Then with an engine upgrade it was the 733 (not the 732 sized 735).
Then with the NG, which had a wing and engine upgrade, the most popular size has been the 738 (not the 73G at the 733 size).

and my bet is the 739MAX will be the most popular.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
Silver1SWA
Crew
Posts: 4458
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:29 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 18):
Quoting gen2stew (Thread starter):that the -800 is not working out as planned
My opinion is that this is the first time that WN has had a "sensitive" airplane with regards to weight and balance. The -700 is stubby and wide. In normal operation, I don't think you can make it so tail heavy that it touches the ground. The -800 might be able to, so you have to be careful.

One things is certain, the company didn't do all their homewok before adding the -800 to the fleet and a few operational headaches have occured as a result. You're right, they figured it would be as simple as the other types in the fleet. They almost learned the hard way that if you don't offload/load the aircraft in a specific forward/aft sequence, the tail will tip. I work with a few people who have prior experience loading 737-800s at other airlines and they were familiar with the proper loading procedures. When being trained locally on the 737-800, the question was raised. I even asked about it here! But management had not heard about the potential problem and shrugged it off. A month later, we have a memo advising us of new loading procedures.  
Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 18):
I also think that it's very popular to hate the -800 at WN. WN doesn't do change well so when it happens, people tend to freak out. I often hear people say, "Oh, I cant stand the -800!" and so I ask why they hate it. Hardly anyone has been able to give me a reason as to why they "hate" it. They usually just stand there and say, "uhhh, umm, it's an -800!" Ok, but what about the plane is so bad? "Ummm, uhhhh.... it's longer!" Yeah, ok....

In general, I think most employees are excited and curious about the 737-800s. The only group I find a lot of opposition is the ramp who have been freaking out about the extra workload and staffing. They need more hands working these flights but the company refuses to negotiate.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
JONC777
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:41 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:11 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 21):
I sat next to a few WN FAs on a PHX parking lot bus who were complaining about the 738s. Apparently a lot of employees are non-reving on them "just to fly the -800." They were upset since they had to do non-rev on a multi-stop flight home since "there were too many non-revs flying for no reason" on the 738.

hmmm. . .fas complaing about employees non reving for no reason. . .lol. . .who cares, im tempted to nrsa now just to tick an fa off!

making my listing now. . .
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:05 pm

Quoting hOmsaR (Reply 40):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 27):
WN flew 3 or 4 B-727-200s from about 1972 to about 1985 or so.

I didn't think their 727s lasted 13 years. I thought it was a very short-term deal, like a year or two tops. IIRC, they did operate 727s on two separate occasions, though.

WN first flew the 727-200 in 1979, not 1972. The occassion lasted only about a year. They flew the type again a few years later.

Let's not forget that when WN aquired Muse Air in the mid-80s; they did briefly fly DC-9s and MD-80s under the Transtar brand.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
Caspian27
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:48 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting AU795 (Reply 34):
Any Southwest employee (ramp, hdq, csa) can sit in the extra cabin jumpseats. On the -800 there are two additional jumpseats in the rear galley. It can be very difficult to work back there and get the carts pulled out and set up if you have two additional jumpseaters as they can not move, even stand up as long as the seatbelt sign is on. Personally, I like the aircraft, but I can see why people complain if the flight is full and they have 2 non-reving jumpseaters in the back.

I bet those FA's won't complain so much when they are nonrevving and it comes down to either being in those jumpseats themselves, or not making it on a flight...
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 41):
Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 20):
Delta Airlines colors.

Air Lines

NIT PICKER. Got anything better to do KIDO......   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
SkyTeamTriStar
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:47 pm

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:33 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 8):
What are the chances we will EVER see a 717 in WN colors? I know they're leaving soon, but it would be nice to have something other than a 737 in WN colors.

It would be very cool to see a 717 in WN colors but just like DL never repainted their TriStars into the flowing fabric scheme back then. Bummer, I know!
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1539
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 42):
They need more hands working these flights but the company refuses to negotiate

Just like the union has refused to negotiate with the company on certain things... it's a two way street.

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 43):
hmmm. . .fas complaing about employees non reving for no reason. . .lol. . .who cares, im tempted to nrsa now just to tick an fa off!


Don't waste your time or energy, the flight attendants don't care. I'm sure whoever heard that fa's were getting pissed, more than likely heard it from a non-fa. But if it's true, DH'ing FA's could start taking the jumpseat to keep non-revs off of them, then you wouldn't be able to get on weather it's to travel or just to do it tick off a FA.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
737tanker
Posts: 255
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:47 am

RE: No More -800's For WN?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:44 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 48):
DH'ing FA's could start taking the jumpseat to keep non-revs off of them

At WN the F/As do not get priority when it comes to the cabin jumpseats, it is 1st come 1st serve. If there are any scheduled DH'ing F/As on a flight they are all guaranteed a passenger seat and are nt required to ride the cabin jumpseat..