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CARST
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BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:04 pm

Newslink:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...liveries-to-be-pushed-back-375070/

Pushed back to 3rd quarter 2013 !!!


Are there still enough airlines left who want their A380s now (and not later)? Or is Airbus already building a backlog of aircraft in Toulouse and Finkenwerder?

[Edited 2012-08-06 06:05:47]
 
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moo
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:36 pm

Quoting CARST (Thread starter):
Are there still enough airlines left who want their A380s now (and not later)?

From the way the article is worded, its not BA thats pushing the aircraft back - its Airbus, as a result of the impact of the rib cracking issues.

Quote:

Parent company International Airlines Group's chief, Willie Walsh, says it is "in discussions" with Airbus regarding a delivery date.

Walsh says the deliveries will probably be pushed back, adding that the aircraft are still "likely" to arrive in 2013 but "towards the third quarter".

That, to me, indicates that Walsh is unsure when the delivery will happen - if hes pushing them back himself, then I would expect that comment to be firmer in wording.
 
mikey72
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:40 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 1):
That, to me, indicates that Walsh is unsure when the delivery will happen - if hes pushing them back himself, then I would expect that comment to be firmer in wording.

OFGS...can't anyone deliver an aircraft on time these days ?

I hope adequate compensation is being discussed.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
GRIVely
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:20 pm

Has the "final" fix for the current rib feet cracking been approved by the regulators? Any idea of how many hours that fix will take? (More or less than the 8,000 hours for the interim repair?) Why would an airline want to have aircraft that it is paying for sitting around for 16 or more weeks out of service while being repaired?
 
col
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:24 pm

Good decision for both. The 380 will eventually arrive and is superb, but getting them with good wings will mean they will not come in and out for repairs. Once the fix is available could Airbus set up other lines, say in Sing to carry out the mods?
 
mikey72
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:27 pm

Quoting col (Reply 7):
but getting them with good wings

Would be desirable one imagines....

(lol)
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting GRIVely (Reply 6):
Has the "final" fix for the current rib feet cracking been approved by the regulators?

Not yet. They hope to get approval in autumn 2012
 
AA737-823
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:06 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 2):
OFGS...can't anyone deliver an aircraft on time these days ?

No! Safety FIRST, timeliness a distant SECOND, please.

Cracking wings is a big, expensive problem, and they're much better off fixing it before delivery than after it enters revenue service.
 
sevenheavy
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:25 pm

First VS, now BA. They're both as bad as each other   

Joking aside, this is a big deal for Airbus. I wonder if they will ever break even on the A380 (although EK seem happy to take all they can get!)
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 8):
First VS, now BA. They're both as bad as each other.     

BA at least placed their order with the intention of taking delivery. I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.
 
mikey72
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
BA at least placed their order with the intention of taking delivery. I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.

Isn't this just about Airbus pushing BA back and not the other way around ?
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:44 pm

This is actually good news. I feared worse. The reality is that Airbus has an *expensive* issue and airlines want a permanent fix. Adding the down time that exceeds a pair of D-checks (one for the temp fix, one for the permanent) is not something fun to budget for in these tough time.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 2):
OFGS...can't anyone deliver an aircraft on time these days ?

Nyet.

Quoting col (Reply 4):
Once the fix is available could Airbus set up other lines, say in Sing to carry out the mods?

Are we talking pre-built wings, parts, or assembled aircraft? Multiple MRO shops will do the last. Parts might be the 'long pole,' Airbus is going to have to pay heavy expediting fees... But honestly a few tens of millions more is chump change. As to working on pre-built wings, that would require duplicate jigs. I would say buy the jigs; they'll be needed for accelerated A380 production.   I hope...

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
virgincrew
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:54 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
No! Safety FIRST, timeliness a distant SECOND, please.

deffo !!!!

The whole A380 issues brings back a flight crew phrase "I ain't going if it ain't Boeing & I hate flying on the ScareBus"

I must admitt I don't think I will ever want to fly on the A380...

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 8):
Joking aside, this is a big deal for Airbus. I wonder if they will ever break even on the A380 (although EK seem happy to take all they can get!)

This is very true, EK seem to very happy and can't get theirs quick enough....

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
BA at least placed their order with the intention of taking delivery. I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.

I don't think for a second that VS made the order with the intention of not taking delivery... If they don't take delivery it will be because of how much the airline industry and market has changed as a whole, since the original orders were placed...
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
wolbo
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
The whole A380 issues brings back a flight crew phrase "I ain't going if it ain't Boeing & I hate flying on the ScareBus"

Good thing they didn't specify it further as "I ain't going if it ain't Boeing 787" or they would not have been going anywhere for three years.  

That sure sounds like a seriously ignorant flight crew.
 
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Stitch
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 10):
Isn't this just about Airbus pushing BA back and not the other way around?

That appears to be the case. Based on Mr. Walsh's comments, BA is not asking for a deferral.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting col (Reply 15):
Am talking about completed aircraft. SQ Engineering have worked closely with Airbus on the wing issue already and have a lot of experience, more so than any other 380 Airline.

That they have. But so have other MRO shops (LH Technic). The training is the issue, not the ability.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
col
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:46 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
That they have. But so have other MRO shops (LH Technic). The training is the issue, not the ability.

Interesting on LH, thanks for sharing. I know SQ have discussed many things with Airbus about the issue going forward, but we will all have to be patient until the fix. With the 787/380, I think we have all learnt to be patient!
 
sevenheavy
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
BA at least placed their order with the intention of taking delivery. I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.
Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
I don't think for a second that VS made the order with the intention of not taking delivery...

If nothing else they wanted the option. They certainly didn't place the order for the PR....lets face it, there hasnt been too much positive PR surrounding the A380 for a while.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
I must admitt I don't think I will ever want to fly on the A380...

I have no problem flying on one, and I don't think for a minute that they aren't safe. The 787 (and every other "revolutionary" design before them) has had design or mechanical/structural issues. Its just a shame that neither really makes me want to take a flight just for the fun of it. Compared to an old B747 or B757 they just seem so sterile... 
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 10):
Isn't this just about Airbus pushing BA back and not the other way around ?

Seems that way. I wonder why it took this long though. Presumably both Airbus and BA were well aware that these airframes would be affected?
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 2):

OFGS...can't anyone deliver an aircraft on time these days ?

I hope adequate compensation is being discussed.

Could this actually suit BA, they are currently working on the integration of the bmi fleet. An extra month or two may actually be convenient for BA. I don't think think they had planned on a specific route launch based on the A380 delivery?
 
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OA260
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:54 pm

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 13):
That sure sounds like a seriously ignorant flight crew.

Indeed you would hope that they would be more educated but then again .....

The A380 is a fantastic aircraft to fly on and very spacious. I would certainly choose the A380 over a B747 legacy model but Id like to try the revamped B747 ie: 747-8i

[Edited 2012-08-06 16:58:47]
 
col
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:58 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
Count me in too. I have no desire to fly on the WhaleJet, Flying Forehead, or any other name the A-380 will have.

Names as well, great reply. Well thought out based on zero flights on the 380, but what more should we expect?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
When was there any positive news?

Passenger satisfaction, based on people who actually have flown on it. But hey do passengers really count when we have your experience as gospel.

Try to be a little more unbiased, it wears thin when you have no experience of the product. HARD FACTS is the term I use.
 
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kanban
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
As to working on pre-built wings, that would require duplicate jigs. I would say buy the jigs; they'll be needed for accelerated A380 production.


Disagree that additional wing jigs are warranted...the work can be done in the shipping fixtures or interim supporting material. wing jigs would require removal of all subsequent system hardware. They are not disassembling the wing, just changing the in-spar rib feet. if one proceeds a rib at a time the wing remains stable. however if you remove all the affected ones first, you'll play hell getting it back together with the same aerodynamics
 
col
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:54 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 24):
Disagree that additional wing jigs are warranted...the work can be done in the shipping fixtures or interim supporting material. wing jigs would require removal of all subsequent system hardware. They are not disassembling the wing, just changing the in-spar rib feet. if one proceeds a rib at a time the wing remains stable. however if you remove all the affected ones first, you'll play hell getting it back together with the same aerodynamics

This is interesting, has this been accepted as the fix method, or likely to be the road to go down. I know Boeing/Lockheed have a lot more experience in wing re-builds etc. Will be interesting to know time for each fix.
 
BestWestern
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.

Just like the sonic cruiser

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):

Yawn. A.net needs an ignore user option.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
col
Posts: 1695
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 26):
Yawn. A.net needs an ignore user option.

He is also going to be upset as the Red Sox beat Texas tonight - Go Sox.

By the way, do not believe that all people from USA do not like 380's. My family don't want to fly anything else, but price is a dictator. I will not tell you the most hated long haul plane as it is their own preference and national pride comes into play a little.

Anyway an ignore button would be good, along with stuck record, topic start per week restriction, and an automatic rethink your reply one.  
 
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kanban
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:58 am

Quoting col (Reply 25):
This is interesting,


As I understand the causes, some lay in the process of applying a major flat skin to contoured ribs and forcing it into place. Then attaching the two in a pattern that that created high stresses on the first feet fastened.. (coupled with use of some questionable fasteners) .. Visualize the torquing pattern for a standard car valve cover... do it wrong and the chance of problems increase... now multiply that times 10,000 fasteners.. lose the torque sequence (if they had one) and those poor feet just gave up.

So now that all are attached, replacing them can be done a rib at a time without the skin going BOING!!!! They may have to high some vertically challenged mechanics..
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
The whole A380 issues brings back a flight crew phrase "I ain't going if it ain't Boeing & I hate flying on the ScareBus"

No it doesn't.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
I must admitt I don't think I will ever want to fly on the A380...

Then you shouldn't leave your house ever again - being mowed down by a coach is far more likely.

NS
 
RickNRoll
Posts: 1252
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:43 am

The "Whole 380 issues" is two, one of which is an engine issue, another one of which is a manufacturing issue. There is no safety issue with the plane itself. I look forward to flying Boeing and Airbus.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:58 am

Further, what about the 787? 4 years late due to structural failure, fires aplenty, software failures, you name it.

The bottom line is, I'm going to hop right on either plane and not think twice.

NS
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:32 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 21):
Disagree that additional wing jigs are warranted...the work can be done in the shipping fixtures or interim supporting material. wing jigs would require removal of all subsequent system hardware. They are not disassembling the wing, just changing the in-spar rib feet. if one proceeds a rib at a time the wing remains stable. however if you remove all the affected ones first, you'll play hell getting it back together with the same aerodynamics

Its all a question of precision. An assembled wing has a far stiffer root and thus it will not flex much. Maybe the jigs can be bypassed... Maybe not.

Quoting kanban (Reply 25):
So now that all are attached, replacing them can be done a rib at a time without the skin going BOING!!!! They may have to high some vertically challenged mechanics..

The issue is if neighboring ribs have more significant cracks and do going 'BOING.' I do not worry about a wing assembled into an aircraft. It is the wing halves before they are mated onto the aircraft.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 28):
The bottom line is, I'm going to hop right on either plane and not think twice.

Correction: Hope on either plane and post a trip report.  

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
fcogafa
Posts: 884
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RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:28 am

The delay could be a blessing in disguise for BA, as introducing two new types at once (787/380) was going to be a challenge. The delay alleviates this a bit....as long as the 787 deliveries aren't delayed of course!
 
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kanban
Posts: 3661
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:00 am

RE: BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:41 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 25):
They may have to high some vertically challenged mechanics

Intended to say "hire" not high.

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