Mr. Mof
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Pan Am - 1977

Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:45 pm

Good Morning,

I was hoping someone would be able to tell me about the aircraft Pan Am used in 1977. I wrote this site several years back, but I am not sure if I received the answer. My family and I flew to FCO from JFK in August, 1977. We left JFK in early August at night about 7:00 (It was totally dark when we took off; remember it was my first time flying at night) I was just 6 years old.
Can someone tell me if it was a DC-8 or a 707-300 that would have carried us across the pond? I do recall it being a single aisle aircraft as I sat with my parents on one side and my grandmother sat across from us with two other, older people....
 
N202PA
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:04 pm

Should have been a 707-300 at that point. The DC-8's had been moved on to other airlines (ie, Delta and United) by the end of the '60s.
 
Mr. Mof
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:07 pm

I thought that would have been it. Someone said a 747, but I knew that it was a narrow body plane...LONG! I also recall that a grounds crew member backed a stair truck (not sure of "official" name) into the wing and the ENTIRE plane shook... God knows if anyone even got out to inspect the plane then!
 
citationjet
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:13 pm

If it was a narrow body, then it would have been a 707-320. I flew PAA from JFK to FCO in spring of 1980. It was scheduled to be a 747, but they substituted a 707 that day. The loads were so light that we still made the flight as non-revenue standbys (off-line airline (Frontier) employees at that).
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
Clipper002
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:24 pm

That would have been flight 110 which left JFK at 1830 Lcl if my memory still serves me.

Ed
Ed
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:52 pm

In 1967 I flew PA76 JFK-KEF-PIK, and I had always thought it was a 707 that I had flown in. Years later, I saw an interior shot of a PA DC-8 and remembered the built-in seat light. My second flight, my first jet. May 18 departure, reg. anyone?
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
Viscount724
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting Mr. Mof (Thread starter):
My family and I flew to FCO from JFK in August, 1977

By then Pan Am had retired roughly half their 707 fleet.
 
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American 767
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:39 pm

At that time, Pan Am had an all Boeing fleet consisting of 707s, 727-100s (the Stretch 200s came only in the early 80s mostly from the merger with NA, although a few were ordered directly from Boeing), 747-100 and SPs. The 737s, DC-10s, L1011s and Airbus arrived only during the 80s. So if you tell me it was narrow body equipment then chances are you were on a 707.

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:10 am

Pan Am did not retire the 707 until the early 1980's. The last 707 flight was in 1983 to celebrate the 25th anniversary of jet travel across the Atlantic.

I was recently watching a documentry on the Jonestown Massacre. It showed Congressman Leo Ryan, who was murder in Jonestown, boarding a Pan Am 707 bound for Port of Spain at the JFK Worldport in November of 1978.
 
doulasc
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:58 am

In 1977 Pan Am had the Boeing 747-121,747-SP,Boeing 707-321B and some Cs,The non fans 321 and 121Bs were gone from the fleet, and Boeing 727-21s used mostly in German Internal service,However they did have some here in the US mostly from Miami to the Caribbean,but when Pan Am dropped most of their Caribbean destinations some of their 727-21s were retired.
 
doulasc
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):

The non fan 321s,121Bs,I think their older 321B(ventral fins)N760PA-N764PA were gone from the fleet by 1977.However the 321B(advanced-no Ventral fin) and some Cs were the main stay in Pan Am's 707 fleet until William Seawell grounded the 707 fleet in 1980 before he retired..
 
Mr. Mof
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:56 pm

Thanks everyone. I was thinking it was the 707...I do remember the lighting in the ceiling...a ROUND light about 18-22 in. For some reason, I was fixated on how "cool" that light looked at night just before the cabin was dimmed for takeoff.
I do remember it being long...and having those 2 engines per wing. We sat just aft the wing on the port side of the craft and I remember being at the window seat looking out and back at that long wing...
 
milesrich
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:08 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 7):
At that time, Pan Am had an all Boeing fleet consisting of 707s, 727-100s (the Stretch 200s came only in the early 80s mostly from the merger with NA, although a few were ordered directly from Boeing), 747-100 and SPs. The 737s, DC-10s, L1011s and Airbus arrived only during the 80s. So if you tell me it was narrow body equipment then chances are you were on a 707.

Ben Soriano

Two of the 727-200A's were Ozark aircraft that Pan Am purchased before Ozark took delivery but at least one was painted in Ozark colors. When did Pan Am dump the 707-121B's, and the 720-030B's they acquired from Lufthansa. These aircraft were flown out of JFK to the Caribbean but not to Europe unless used as an equipment substitution, and neither could fly NY to Rome, nonstop, with much of a load. The JT-4 powered -321's were gone by 1972, if I remember correctly, so the flight to FCO, in 1977, if not a 747, was most likely a 707-321B.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting milesrich (Reply 12):
When did Pan Am dump the 707-121B's, and the 720-030B's they acquired from Lufthansa.

One fleet list shows the -121Bs retired in 1974, and the 9 720Bs (6 ex-LH and 3 ex-AA) between 1972 and 1974.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 12):
so the flight to FCO, in 1977, if not a 747, was most likely a 707-321B.

Or -321C.
 
globalflyer
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:57 pm

Yes this was PA110. I flew it in June of 1980. I was scheduled on AZ but they went on strike so we were placed on PA. I remember it was a 747 but was only 11 and not into airline registrations at that time so I did not get the tail number but for some really odd reason I remember that it departed Gate 14 from the Pan Am Worldport. There was also a sign on the counter that had a picture of the National SunKing logo and Pan Am logo talking about the merger. IIRC, the flight continued onto IST. At one time PA110 flew JFK-FCO-IST-THR. I guess that ended in 1979?
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 14):
Yes this was PA110. I flew it in June of 1980. I was scheduled on AZ but they went on strike so we were placed on PA. I remember it was a 747 but was only 11 and not into airline registrations at that time so I did not get the tail number but for some really odd reason I remember that it departed Gate 14 from the Pan Am Worldport. There was also a sign on the counter that had a picture of the National SunKing logo and Pan Am logo talking about the merger. IIRC, the flight continued onto IST. At one time PA110 flew JFK-FCO-IST-THR. I guess that ended in 1979?

I think it's interesting Pan Am was still operating PA110 seven years after the terrorist attack on PA110 at FCO in 1973. The 1973 PA110 was flying Rome-Beirut-Tehran. Terrorists stormed the plane on the ground at FCO. They threw grenades into the cabin and killed about thirty passengers and one of the Pursers.
 
doulasc
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:05 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 15):

Was that a Pan Am Boeing 707-321B N407PA.
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting doulasc (Reply 16):
Was that a Pan Am Boeing 707-321B N407PA.

Yes it was. Purser Diana Perez was murdered along with Captain Andrew Erbeck's wife who was in First Class, along with 28 passengers.
 
doulasc
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RE: Pan Am - 1977

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 17):

N407PA,that registration is now on a helicopter today.Saw that on Flickr.com