LAXintl
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California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:03 pm

As follow up on the DOT reminder that proposed start-up California Pacific Airlines was quickly running out of the allotted 1-year deadline in achieving its air carrier certificate from the FAA and launching commercial services ( DOT Warns California Pacific - Fly Or Lose License (by LAXintl Jul 20 2012 in Civil Aviation) ) by August 25, 2012, the company has applied for a Request for Extension of Authority.

California Pacific states that is continues to work with the FAA on its 121 air carrier certificate, along with its fund raising efforts.

The carrier says its is currently in stage 2 of 3 stage process with the FAA and is in the midst of manual approvals which it expects to take another 90-days. Carrier hopes to enter the last stage "before the end of the year".

Additionally carrier continues to work on achieving $30-50mil funding with institutional investors.

To date start-up spending has been approximately $10mil.


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PHX787
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:10 pm

Well this seems like a shot to the gut, if you ask me. I really hope the best for CP Air but since they have the airplane already they really should be following up, but as previously stated, this has proven to be the blade of the sword for start ups.

How long does it usually take to go through the entire FAA procedure, and why aren't they and the DOT intertwined better?

I wonder what the CP Air rep on A.net has to say about this.

I strongly hope this pulls through (and service begins to PHX as well   )
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SANFan
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:40 pm

For anyone interested, CP Air's draft EA (Environmental Assessment) for their proposed CLD-service is available (via their website) at the following link:
EA%20Proposed%20Commercial%20Service%20Ops%20by%20CPA.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.flycpair.com/documents/Dr...ial%20Service%20Ops%20by%20CPA.pdf

The public comment period has been extended to August 25.

I looked through it and other than seeing that their plan is for "15 daily flights" that will "transition to EMB-190 within the first year of operation", I didn't really find any new details about schedules, destinations (order) or timing but it does have a lot of information about the airport and appears to be a thorough study.

  

bb

edit: Looks like the link might not work so here's the access page on their website:
http://www.flycpair.com/news/notices.htm
Click on the 3rd link (July 17) for the EA .pdf

[Edited 2012-08-08 09:44:22]
 
LAXintl
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:04 pm

Well looks like if they ever make it, will be a 2013 before first flight - likely a 3 year process from the initial May 2010 application formal start date.

Regarding the question about DOT and FAA, start-up carriers have two parallel tracks they must follow. One is the commercial economic authority which is granted by the DOT - this was issued in August 2011, and the other is the technical operating certificate from the FAA. The economic authority gets revokes for dormancy after 12-months of non-use and that was the problem these guys were facing.


Personally, I'm more curious about the financing that they are still trying to drum up - takes a hardly (some might say foolish) party to plow money into such a venture these days.
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
I looked through it and other than seeing that their plan is for "15 daily flights" that will "transition to EMB-190 within the first year of operation",

That's a new lil' tidbit...E190's!? I don't recall seeing that in the game plan before! Interesting!
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N202PA
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 4):

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
I looked through it and other than seeing that their plan is for "15 daily flights" that will "transition to EMB-190 within the first year of operation",

That's a new lil' tidbit...E190's!? I don't recall seeing that in the game plan before! Interesting!

Can an E-190 even take off from CLD without being weight-restricted? I thought that was the whole point of using the 170 in the first place.
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting N202PA (Reply 5):
Can an E-190 even take off from CLD without being weight-restricted? I thought that was the whole point of using the 170 in the first place.

Easy, the ERJ-190's performance is close to that of the ERJ-170 thanks to the larger wing - in fact it's better than the smaller ERJ-175. But as with most small jets these days it's not take off performance which is the limiting factor but the landing distance in wet weather - again though, the ERJ-190 would have no problem at CLD.


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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:26 am

Hopefully the 91 year old founder - Ted Vallas of Encinitas CA, who has put $14 Million of his own money into California Pacific, will get to see "his" airline actually fly. At that age, even as spry as Vallas seems, you just never know......   
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:32 am

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 7):
Hopefully the 91 year old founder - Ted Vallas of Encinitas CA, who has put $14 Million of his own money into California Pacific, will get to see "his" airline actually fly. At that age, even as spry as Vallas seems, you just never know......

That would be truely tragic to not see the fruits of your imprint on the company.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
As follow up on the DOT reminder that proposed start-up California Pacific Airlines was quickly running out of the allotted 1-year deadline in achieving its air carrier certificate from the FAA and launching commercial services

I hope this is not a sign of things to come, they do have the cards stacked against them, it still remains to be seen if they will take off. I have had very high hopes for this fledgling carrier to make a solid niche for themselves serving affluent N San Diego. I hope they do get what they need to make it big.
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:57 pm

I would love nothing more than to see this airline succeed, this video shows that they have the right ideas IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl_cON8pZzU
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 4):

That's a new lil' tidbit...E190's!? I don't recall seeing that in the game plan before! Interesting!

I wonder if these are the 5 additional E90s that RJET mentioned might be pulled from F9 in the future.
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting B737-112 (Reply 9):
I would love nothing more than to see this airline succeed, this video shows that they have the right ideas IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl_cO...8pZzU

Great find! I hadn't seen this before. Thanks for posting it, B737'. (It stars an A.netter too -- a frequent poster here on these CP Air threads!)

bb
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:32 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 11):
(It stars an A.netter too -- a frequent poster here on these CP Air threads!)

I'm hoping he would show up here soon and shed some light on the extension request.

Quoting B737-112 (Reply 9):
I would love nothing more than to see this airline succeed, this video shows that they have the right ideas IMO.

   Agreed! The video was put together really well!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
I looked through it and other than seeing that their plan is for "15 daily flights" that will "transition to EMB-190 within the first year of operation",

Interesting. I thought CPAir's fleet would be all E-170's? I wonder if CPAir's first plane is still at CLD?
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 12):
Interesting. I thought CPAir's fleet would be all E-170's? I wonder if CPAir's first plane is still at CLD?

Yeah SANMAN' (and B6JFK'), the mention of the 190s has me scratching my head a bit also. I seem to remember way back at the early beginnings of this endeavor by Ted, reading something about various a/c types but everything lately has pretty much been all "170s".

Possibly the mention in the EA was an old statement that was not edited out before submission or maybe there are some plans that haven't been talked about (publically) yet... Sure, a mixed fleet of 170s and 190s (for the high volume routes!) would be great but, as I've said before about trying to predict the future for our friends at CP Air, let's get them off the ground first!

And it does seem (to me) like we're at a pretty major obstacle right now so    that things keep moving forward right now.

bb
 
Wingtips56
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:29 pm

Have they received any more planes yet, or just that first E170?
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:01 am

I wish them all the luck. Sounds like they've found a niche.

In the You Tube video it mentioned what I'll call the the launch airframe was picked up in BNA. I'm curious if it belonged to another customer or does Embraer? have operations in the greater Nashville area.
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 15):
In the You Tube video it mentioned what I'll call the the launch airframe was picked up in BNA. I'm curious if it belonged to another customer or does Embraer? have operations in the greater Nashville area

I was under the impression that is where the carrier took delivery of the aircraft.

[Edited 2012-08-09 17:38:46]
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Wingtips56
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:19 am

IIRC, it was painted at Embraer facility at BNA and delivered from there. Ex-Cirrus machine.
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:33 am

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 12):
I wonder if CPAir's first plane is still at CLD?

I was just at CLD today (8/9/12 @ 14:30 local) and CPAir's plane was still on the tarmac. it was my first time seeing the plane in person and i do like the tail logo.
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 10):
I wonder if these are the 5 additional E90s that RJET mentioned might be pulled from F9 in the future.

Weren't these just announced as being acquired by US Airways?
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:32 am

No big deal in my opinion. They need a little more time to dot the Is and cross the Ts. CP does not appear to be in a big rush, but I am sure they wish they had already gotten airborne by now. The 190 would be a great plane to add for LAS, as I am sure it will pack a 170 in no time. Excited to see this airline get airborne!
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting Falcon Flyer (Reply 19):

Quoting mikefrommke (Reply 10):
I wonder if these are the 5 additional E90s that RJET mentioned might be pulled from F9 in the future.

Weren't these just announced as being acquired by US Airways?

Yep, they are going to US.
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:10 am

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 21):
Yep, they are going to US

That's a different 5. There are 5 going to US, 5 slated for charter work out west (not sure if it's been officially announced but that's a rumor I've heard), leaving 7. 2 were leased and can be returned to the lessor soon, leaving 5 ships for this thread's rumor.
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SANFan
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:51 am

There's absolutely no time frame mentioned. If this whole 190-thing is even accurate, it might be 3 or 4 (or more) years in the future. In any case, I wouldn't expect it to be a factor for at least a couple of years. After all, CP Air has a definite fleet of 170s on the way which will easily get them to their currently-planned 15-departure schedule out of CLD.

bb
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:44 am

Why don't they just do CLD - AZA in the interim? ... They could have bikini clad girls perform a fashion show on the first flight, or maybe every flight, that could be their hook.
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:02 am

I'm surprised that the aircraft still wear the registration N176EC. The new registration will be N760CP...
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:42 am

I imagine our resident California Pacific Sales person could shed light on whats going to happen, but likely can not for corporate privacy reasons. Hows many days left before they are to be up and running? Since there is no route announcement or official releases from them, I'm expecting an Aug startup date is out of the question for sure. I wish only the best for this new carrier, and much luck and good A.netter thoughts.
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LAXintl
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:22 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 26):
I'm expecting an Aug startup date is out of the question for sure.

No way they will launch service in the coming weeks. They don't even have their air carrier certificate yet.

As the starter thread states, at best they estimated to it will take another 90-days to complete stage 2 of 3 of the FAA certification process, then by the end of the year they can commence stage 3 which is the route proving runs.
This takes them into 2013 easy.

They also have the little detail of needing to secure the remaining $30-50mil in launch funding.....
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flycpair
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Our target is first quarter of 2013, subject to regulatory approval. Last week we resubmitted thousands of pages of manuals and training programs back to the FAA which is a part of design assessment for Phase II of certification. And yes, we continue to work on the not so little detail of completing financing for our operations.

Our E-170 will switch over to N760CP once Wells Fargo Bank, the owner of the aircraft that we lease, files the appropriate paperwork with the FAA.

There are five potential aircraft types we are looking at for the future, but the environmental firm focused on the 190 just as a larger aircraft, a "straw man" so to speak as an old boss of mine would call them, to fill the role of something bigger and heavier for the EA. Our focus is firmly on getting the 170 operation certified and into revenue service, and only then would we seriously evaluate alternative aircraft options for the future.
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting flycpair (Reply 28):
Our target is first quarter of 2013

Thank you for your comments 'cpair. I know I appreciate the update and clarifications very much.

Continued good luck to you and the whole team on getting this done!

bb
 
ridgid727
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:13 am

Quoting flycpair (Reply 28):
Our target is first quarter of 2013, subject to regulatory approval. Last week we resubmitted thousands of pages of manuals and training programs back to the FAA which is a part of design assessment for Phase II of certification. And yes, we continue to work on the not so little detail of completing financing for our operations

thanks for your update, but would it not have been a little more reasonable to buy someone elses certificate and then proceed. maybe Comair or Mesaba or something like that. Back when America West started, they bought the certificate of Hawaiian Pacific to expedite startup. (hence the code HP)

This has been 2 years since this was announced.
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:20 am

Quoting B737-112 (Reply 9):
this video shows that they have the right ideas IMO.

I'd love to agree, but unfortunately I don't see anything here that differentiates them from anyone else. They even have the same stock grey seats we're used to seeing in US Airways' original E170s.

If by "the right ideas" you mean they aren't trying to totally screw their customers, then yeah I suppose so. Is that enough to sustain an airline, though?
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flycpair
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:23 pm

We looked at a variety of options for how to get certificated. The bar for "transferring" a certificate is getting so high though that we decided it was more prudent to apply for our own. To transfer a certificate, you need to retain its current management, the same aircraft, and most of its infastructure. There were no available 121 certs out there that fit our need. 10-20 years ago, it was a lot easier to go this route.
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 30):
thanks for your update, but would it not have been a little more reasonable to buy someone elses certificate and then proceed. maybe Comair or Mesaba or something like that. Back when America West started, they bought the certificate of Hawaiian Pacific to expedite startup. (hence the code HP)
Quoting flycpair (Reply 32):
We looked at a variety of options for how to get certificated. The bar for "transferring" a certificate is getting so high though that we decided it was more prudent to apply for our own. To transfer a certificate, you need to retain its current management, the same aircraft, and most of its infastructure. There were no available 121 certs out there that fit our need. 10-20 years ago, it was a lot easier to go this route.

I don't think CP wants a bunch of useless 50 seater CRJs.

Hurry up and get 'r' done   Once you guys get started I'm sure you shouldn't have to worry about a customer base (since all of us who post on CP threads are quite eager to see this succeed      )
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RWA380
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:39 am

Quoting flycpair (Reply 32):
We looked at a variety of options for how to get certificated. The bar for "transferring" a certificate is getting so high though that we decided it was more prudent to apply for our own. To transfer a certificate, you need to retain its current management, the same aircraft, and most of its infastructure. There were no available 121 certs out there that fit our need. 10-20 years ago, it was a lot easier to go this route.

Your comments are both interesting and informative, thank you for taking the time to keep us buffs up to speed on the progress. I think the vast majority of comments regarding your operation here on A.net have been positive from what I have read. It appears you have a lot of well wishers supporting the CPAir operation. IMHO, your updates are always welcome and appreciated.
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting flycpair (Reply 28):
There are five potential aircraft types we are looking at for the future
Quoting flycpair (Reply 28):
Our focus is firmly on getting the 170 operation certified and into revenue service,

Where compatibility meets cost I would think the E90 would also fit neatly assuming some of the parts for the E70 and E90 are interchangeable. I use to manage 8-10 million dollars in military aviation spare parts; repairable, consumable, avionics et all for both rotor and fixed wing aircraft. We parts pooled often with the Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard because each of services flew the same aircraft with slight variations although each service had unique and different missions.
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diverdave
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:59 pm

Here's an article profiling Steve Vallas in today's LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...w-airline-20120822,0,4787474.story

David
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting diverdave (Reply 36):
Here's an article profiling Steve Vallas in today's LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...story

Thanks for posting the article. (BTW, it's TED Vallas.)

bb
 
diverdave
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 37):
Thanks for posting the article. (BTW, it's TED Vallas.)

Thanks, good thing Ted's mind is sharper than mine.  Wow!
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting flycpair (Reply 28):
And yes, we continue to work on the not so little detail of completing financing for our operations.

First of all, thanks for posting on here...I think it's a nice gesture to have some 'official' presence here if that's your capacity.

However, I'm skeptical. What's the market plan? Target audience? I read in the LA Times article that about 40% of SAN customers are on the north side, but that stands to reason given the demographics and economics of the people in La Jolla, Del Mar, Rancho, Carlsbad, etc...there's a boatload of money there. And as if starting an airline PERIOD isn't a ludicrous enough idea, doing it in a major recession is worse and doing it in CA where regulations and cost of doing business add more weight to that already imblanced equation.

SJC, OAK, SMF, LAS, PHX and SJD. Meh. Has to be all local traffic besides.

Good luck, but I'd rather tell Ted to spend that money golfing and doing something philanthropic with it in his golden years. I admire the man and his entrepreneurialism, but this is likely to just become another carrier code on the ashheap.
 
PHX787
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 39):
SJC, OAK, SMF, LAS, PHX and SJD. Meh. Has to be all local traffic besides.

At the risk of not being credible, I believe it's been established that these routes were made for business travelers/leisure travel between the San Diego area and these markets, and vice versa. I know some people here in the valley that frequent SAN and I told them about this start up service. They told me that, at the right price, this seems more reasonable (given CLD has a rental car facility)
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ScottB
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 40):
I know some people here in the valley that frequent SAN and I told them about this start up service. They told me that, at the right price, this seems more reasonable (given CLD has a rental car facility)

But therein lies the problem. What's "the right price?" The E170 is a higher-cost aircraft than the 737's that WN uses to offer 8-11 round-trips in each of those markets from SAN. Will the convenience of a shorter drive to CLD be enough to offset the less convenient schedule? Can they charge a premium for what is essentially a boutique service, or will they be forced to undercut WN (and US to PHX)?
 
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RE: California Pacific Asks DOT For Start-up Extension

Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:29 am

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