reifel
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:00 pm

Just FYI
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...rlin-results-idUSL6E8J8EI220120808

It's always fuel (understandable) and of course german air travel tax (which is lower this year than it was last, although only marginally). While I like AB from a passenger side of view I don't understand their strategy (if there is one).
 
Pe@rson
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting reifel (Thread starter):
I don't understand their strategy (if there is one).

Indeed, AB is a highly 'stuck-in-the-middle-airline' that doesn't know what it wants to be. This is a highly dangerous area strategy-wise.

Alas, AB suffers dreadfully from poor financial performance. Between 2004 and 2011, it made an operating loss in 4 years and a net loss in 6 years. In 2011 it made its worse operating and net loss; in terms of its operating loss it was €247m.

Quoting reifel (Thread starter):
While I like AB from a passenger side of view I

Me too. I enjoyed my STN-TXL-MUC-DUS-STN flights.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
LAXintl
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:16 am

Begs the question - now what ?

Cant blame fuel forever. AB like others need to come to accept the new normal in regards to fuel.

Seems to me their 2010 strategic overhaul is not producing much change in the area of finances.
Still as messy as ever trying to be 3-4 type of airlines all in one.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JimJupiter
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:28 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Begs the question - now what ?

Cant blame fuel forever. AB like others need to come to accept the new normal in regards to fuel.

Seems to me their 2010 strategic overhaul is not producing much change in the area of finances.
Still as messy as ever trying to be 3-4 type of airlines all in one.

Well, apparently they are still suffering from a very bad deal with TUI. When they took over TUIfly in 2009 (and parent company TUI became a 10% or so shareholder of AB), they agreed on a long term leasing deal für TUIfly aircraft, including crew, who now operate under the AB brand, but at considerably higher costs. That money goes to TUI. SPIEGEL estimates a resulting loss of about EUR 100 m p.a.

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-86752082.html

(A chart in that article shows the chronological relation between leasing deal and their poor financial performance lately.)
One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
 
LAXintl
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:34 pm

Sounds like the carrier to reduce debt and improve liquidity will sell 8 narrow-body aircraft to generate €300 million by years end.

Air Berlin to sell planes as finances crumble
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...lin-earnings-idUSLNE87E01R20120815

Air Berlin to sell eight aircraft to reduce debt
http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...l-eight-aircraft-reduce-debt-0816?

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Wingtips56
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:34 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Sounds like the carrier to reduce debt and improve liquidity will sell 8 narrow-body aircraft to generate €300 million by years end.

Neither article says if this would be a sale/lease-back or if this would further shrink the fleet. Any insights? Not that I trust Wikipedia, but other than the stored A319's (double overwing exits good for Allegiant high-density expansion??), nothing looks like the obvious frames to reduce.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
 
LAXintl
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:41 am

Shrink fleet -

Article says --
By the end of June, AB reduced its fleet to 152 from 165 in the year-ago period. By year end, its fleet will be reduced to 144 aircraft.

152-144 = 8

Sounds like the 8 are departing the fleet for good.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Wingtips56
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:05 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):

Ah, thanks. I missed that.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
 
WROORD
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Article says --
By the end of June, AB reduced its fleet to 152 from 165 in the year-ago period. By year end, its fleet will be reduced to 144 aircraft

Yes it is the second time they are reducing their fleet to fix the finances, but I read some place (can't remember now) that some of those aircraft will be shifted to Niki. I guess it was not true.
The continually moving date of opening BBI does not help them as well as the fact that their route map has major white areas.
 
LAXintl
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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:35 pm

Also apparently, Etihad loaned AB $250mil to help make predelivery payments for 787s.
Seems they believe AB can achieve an operating profit in 2013.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...t-turnaround-at-air-berlin-375597/

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
senatorflyer
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RE: Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:05 pm

 
columba
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RE: Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:58 am

Etihad wants to get rid of Air Berlin´s CEO:

Link in German:http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-dienstleister/grossaktionaer-etihad-air-berlin-chef-mehdorn-soll-gehen/7044334.html
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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Semaex
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RE: Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:19 am

Quoting columba (Reply 11):

Just started a new thread on the matter, sorry.


@ Mods, feel free to merge the threads.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
Sheridan125
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RE: Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:15 pm

With AB's abysmal financial performance and no obvious strategy it is baffling why anyone should invest in the company or loan it money. Putting money into AB cannot posibly be the best use of Etihad's funds. The news from AB is bound to get worse. What, for example is going to happen to their outstanding aircraft orders? Presumably they will have to be cancelled because AB may not be able to finance them. With an unknown opening date for BER what is the business effect going to be on AB over the next year of that debacle. Probably terrible. A year or two back I was involved in nursing an airline that was in financial intensive care. It looks to me that the ambulance for AB might be on standby. I hope not but the signs look very poor.
 
columba
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RE: Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2

Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:01 am

So there is a lot of speculation about a change of management, the latest rumor is that EY wants one of their own people to become the new CEO, someone with "airline experience"
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong