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dlednicer
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:32 pm

Boeing updated the list prices of their commercial airliners yesterday and the 737-600 is missing from the list. This is interpreted to mean that its no longer available. It has been six years since the last 737-600 was delivered.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/prices/
 
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1337Delta764
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting dlednicer (Thread starter):
Boeing updated the list prices of their commercial airliners yesterday and the 737-600 is missing from the list. This is interpreted to mean that its no longer available. It has been six years since the last 737-600 was delivered.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/prices/

The non-ER versions of the 772 and 773 are also missing from the list as well. I wonder if they are also out of production.
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mauriceb
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting dlednicer (Thread starter):
Boeing updated the list prices of their commercial airliners yesterday and the 737-600 is missing from the list. This is interpreted to mean that its no longer available. It has been six years since the last 737-600 was delivered.

Most probably, yes. I love those little 737's, but there is so much more better equipment available in the 100+ range, and it will be even better with the MRJ, Cseries, E-jets(NG's) and possibly F120. The CASM is so high, that in these difficult economic times, even the advantage of fleet commonality hardly makes up for the extra costs.

Unfortunate, but i don't expect to see a lot of A318's and 737-600's in 2 to 3 years..


Maurice  
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:46 pm

Neither is the 737-900 (non-ER).
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting CO764 (Reply 3):
Neither is the 737-900 (non-ER).

The 737-900 ended production pretty much immediately after the 739ER entered service. It has been out of production for a while now.
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
The non-ER versions of the 772 and 773 are also missing from the list as well. I wonder if they are also out of production.

I think boeing would make them for you if you really wanted. All the parts are still made and the tooling is the same. I just think that they anticipate no orders and so no reason to even list them.

I seem to recall that the trip costs on the 736 were basically equivalent to the trip cost on the 73G and higher than the trip cost on the 735, so airlines really didn't much like them.
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mauriceb
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:13 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I seem to recall that the trip costs on the 736 were basically equivalent to the trip cost on the 73G and higher than the trip cost on the 735, so airlines really didn't much like them.

Another problem was that the TODR and LDR weren't near to what airlines would have liked to see, it was just way to heavy. Major point for airlines like WestJet and SAS which serve rather small markets. Also don't forget that it was designed in a time where fuel cost wasn't that much relevant, and they could easily just raise the ticket price for the nichemarket, as people where willing to pay for it anyway.
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:35 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I think boeing would make them for you if you really wanted. All the parts are still made and the tooling is the same. I just think that they anticipate no orders and so no reason to even list them.

Interestingly, the 764ER is still listed.
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:37 pm

Janet is going to be quite unhappy...   Of course, I'm sure Boeing would reneg for the government  
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mauriceb
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
Interestingly, the 764ER is still listed.

Maybe because they still believe it could be an interesting parcel plane, maybe for UPS in the future? And in the past it was intended to be used for the E-10 programm, which would have leaded to about 200+ 767-400's. So might it be that Boeing still believes that they will sell some to some forces in the future?
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:07 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Janet is going to be quite unhappy... Of course, I'm sure Boeing would reneg for the government

WS can always give them theirs when they are done with them.  
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I think boeing would make them for you if you really wanted. All the parts are still made and the tooling is the same. I just think that they anticipate no orders and so no reason to even list them.

I expect this is the case. With no orders for years for these models and better options available within the same family, I can see Boeing formally withdrawing them from general offer.



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
Interestingly, the 764ER is still listed.
Quoting MauriceB (Reply 9):
Maybe because they still believe it could be an interesting parcel plane, maybe for UPS in the future?

Boeing did pitch a 767-400ERF to FX as an alternative to the A330-200F, but in the end FX decided to order the 767-300F.

I expect the 767-400ER will eventually be withdrawn from offer, as well, once the 787-8's production is stable.
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:29 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 8):
Janet is going to be quite unhappy...

I doubt it. Janet's are all used aircraft, ex-Air China, and I'm sure they could easily find more used -600s if they needed them.
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:34 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
I doubt it. Janet's are all used aircraft, ex-Air China, and I'm sure they could easily find more used -600s if they needed them.

I am sure WS and SK would be more than willing to talk...
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:05 pm

OS also has a pair, but not sure for how much longer.
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:11 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
I expect the 767-400ER will eventually be withdrawn from offer, as well, once the 787-8's production is stable.

A new display system would have to be developed for the 767-400. The current 767-400 style display system (which is different from the 767-200/-300 and all other models) is not longer available from the supplier due to component obsolescence issues.

Several lower gross weight non-ER 767-200 and -300 variants are also no longer offered for sale.
 
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
I expect this is the case. With no orders for years for these models and better options available within the same family, I can see Boeing formally withdrawing them from general offer.

Exactly. But if (hypothetically) someone went to Boeing and said: "We really want more 777-200ER's, not LR's, not 77Ws." Boeing would not say: "No, we couldn't possibly take your money. We're too good for that. Go to Airbus and ask them what they can do for you."   They'd try to talk them into ordering LR's (the LR has only very slightly higher fuel burn on shorter segments than the 772 and otherwise is absolutely the superior aircraft), but they aren't going to refuse money.

Similarly, if you *really* want a 762 or 736 and won't settle for anything else, they can build you one, but they'll be scratching their heads all the way to the bank.

Now, if someone showed up begging for 757's, that tooling has been destroyed and so no-can-do. Here, have a look at our fine line of pre-owned aircraft...
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:30 am

Quoting dlednicer (Thread starter):
This is interpreted to mean that its no longer available.

I believe "assume" might be a better term. Until they say no more, I wouldn't bet on it.
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:00 am

Right. If airlines were still interested in the 600 (only SAS has a large fleet of those) Boeing would offer it in the MAX variant. Boeing is offering the 700, 800 and 900 in MAX variant, and not the 600, because they know that no airline would be interested. Even the BBJ doesn't exist as a 600 variant. I don't think SAS will order anymore 600s from Boeing.

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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:57 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Now, if someone showed up begging for 757's, that tooling has been destroyed and so no-can-do.

But based on all the threads on a.net, the line of people begging for 757s should be out the door a mile long.
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting hOmsaR (Reply 19):
But based on all the threads on a.net, the line of people begging for 757s should be out the door a mile long.

That's 757 enthusiasts begging for 757s. The airlines know they're not being built and won't be, so they'll go for something else. More accurately, they're going for something else; the closest thing that will meet their needs.
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:20 am

I agree .... The B757 replacement is needed......
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sweair
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:21 am

Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 20):
hat's 757 enthusiasts begging for 757s. The airlines know they're not being built and won't be, so they'll go for something else. More accurately, they're going for something else; the closest thing that will meet their needs.

So that's why Boeing has a study for a 757 replacement? They just love to waste resources and money.
 
ACdreamliner
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:27 am

Sad times indeed. Always said if I won the Euromillions, the first thing I'd do is jump on a plane to buy a 737-600 new build for a private jet... Love the hot rods!

Looks like it will have to be used  
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tonymctigue
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:35 am

Ok so a brand new B748i is US$351.4m and I have AU$800 in my bank account. Bit of saving to be done yet!

On a more serious note, it is always sad to see an aircraft end production (presuming that by not listing it Boeing has decided to stop producing the B736) but I don't think it comes as a major surprise to anyone. There aircraft was built in different times and was never particurarly popular. I believe that a fair few of these (including some of the now defunct Malev fleet) are already on their way to the scrap heap, some of the frames ten years old or less.
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Airboe
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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:49 am

Quoting dlednicer (Thread starter):
It has been six years since the last 737-600 was delivered.

Yes it is dead long time ago.  

Soon the A318 will follow, - i guess they only have a couple of VIP/Elite left - if not BA is going to surprise the marked again with another all business configuration - but I hightly doubt that.

Who is next in the line...762, 737 MAX 7 (any order yet?) ...???

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The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:38 am

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 24):
Ok so a brand new B748i is US$351.4m and I have AU$800 in my bank account. Bit of saving to be done yet!

On a more serious note, it is always sad to see an aircraft end production (presuming that by not listing it Boeing has decided to stop producing the B736) but I don't think it comes as a major surprise to anyone. There aircraft was built in different times and was never particurarly popular. I believe that a fair few of these (including some of the now defunct Malev fleet) are already on their way to the scrap heap, some of the frames ten years old or less.

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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:51 am

Well it was only a matter of time before Boeing took the 737-600 out of its offering. Like the -900 (original version) it wasnt a strong seller and its smaller size didnt help either, just like the A318 for Airbus.

Quoting airboe (Reply 25):

Who is next in the line...762, 737 MAX 7 (any order yet?) ...???

IMO it would be the 762ER and the 764ER, they have no current orders and soon enough they will be withdrawn. For the 737 MAX 7, I think its too early to be withdrawn, im sure it can fit some airlines needs.
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:53 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 14):
OS also has a pair, but not sure for how much longer.

Both went to St Athan, have been stripped of parts and appear to be awaiting the final stages of scrapping.
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:58 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 14):
OS also has a pair, but not sure for how much longer.

No they were scrapped. I believe it was April or May this year that they made their final voyage to the scrapper at St Athan, Wales.


Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 15):
A new display system would have to be developed for the 767-400.

Didn't Boeing develop a 787 style flight deck for the 767s that Fedex has on order?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
"We really want more 777-200ER's, not LR's, not 77Ws."

The Boeing 777-200ER is still very much in production. The most recent one (JA741A) was delivered to ANA in March this year. ANA still has a few outstanding orders for the 777-200ER.
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tonymctigue
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:18 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 26):
Between you and I we couldn't even afford a wiper balde .

Not with that attidute we won't! Never say never!

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 27):
IMO it would be the 762ER and the 764ER, they have no current orders and soon enough they will be withdrawn.

I'm surprised that the 764ER of all is still listed since there were only 37 of them built, all of which are owned by DL and UA. The 767 program as a whole is clearly in its twilight years. It is being kept alive by orders for freighter and tanker versions but passenger airlines are seem to be opting for the B777, B787 or A330 rather than new build B767s.
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:21 pm

I believe the 757 replacement is the A321NEO... First of all most airlines operate it in a higher config than the 757 and with extended range on the new variant, it should be able to cope with most 757 missions.

AA have ordered a few of them so maybe that is why!
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 29):
The Boeing 777-200ER is still very much in production. The most recent one (JA741A) was delivered to ANA in March this year. ANA still has a few outstanding orders for the 777-200ER.


There has been delivered three -200ER so far in 2012. ANA has received two, one in April and one in May, while the most recent one was one to Asiana, which was delivered in July  
 
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Stitch
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
So that's why Boeing has a study for a 757 replacement? They just love to waste resources and money.

Boeing does plenty of concepts and studies that never see the light of day. The funding and staffing levels are probably very low.
 
msp747
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:34 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 15):
A new display system would have to be developed for the 767-400. The current 767-400 style display system (which is different from the 767-200/-300 and all other models) is not longer available from the supplier due to component obsolescence issues

Boeing's own website says the 764's cockpit design is the same as the 777, to minimize training between the two aircraft. If that's the case, why would there be an issue, since the 777 is still a hot seller?
 
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting msp747 (Reply 34):
Boeing's own website says the 764's cockpit design is the same as the 777, to minimize training between the two aircraft. If that's the case, why would there be an issue, since the 777 is still a hot seller?

There are similarities in display formats, although the 777's flight deck has far more capability. However, not only is the design architecture very different, but the two models' display systems aren't even made by the same supplier.
 
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 22):
So that's why Boeing has a study for a 757 replacement? They just love to waste resources and money.

Boeing also has a study for a 1500 person flying boat and one for a 500' wingspan ground-effect cargo plane...this does not mean any of them have a snowball's chance in hell of ever being built. You always need to know the answer to "If our customers come asking us for X, what do we say?". That doesn't mean you have any intention of building X, but you'd better have looked at it so you know what to say.

Quoting zkojq (Reply 29):
Didn't Boeing develop a 787 style flight deck for the 767s that Fedex has on order?

That's for the KC-45 tanker. I don't know if they're backing it into the FedEx 767F's.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
Boeing does plenty of concepts and studies that never see the light of day. The funding and staffing levels are probably very low.

Exactly. Having a study does not imply *anything* about likelihood of construction. You may do a study explicitly to show why you *don't* want to build something.

Tom.
 
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Stitch
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:13 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 29):
Didn't Boeing develop a 787 style flight deck for the 767s that Fedex has on order?
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 36):
That's for the KC-45 tanker. I don't know if they're backing it into the FedEx 767F's.

Boeing and Rockwell Collins have developed a new flight deck for the 757 and 767 leveraging the KC-46A flight deck - http://www.rockwellcollins.com/sitec...CS/FY12CSNR35-767_Flight_Deck.aspx

I believe FX is installing it on their new-build 767-300Fs.
 
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:25 pm

Statements like these make many believe they are serious about it.

"Boeing chief executive Jim McNerney confirms a replacement for the long-haul 757-200 market segment is being studied internally, adding potentially a new layer to the 737 Max concept."

Why would they bring it up at all? Certainly most people can see a gap that 757/767/A330 will leave behind in the future?

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Stitch
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:36 pm

When Jim McNerney confirms a replacement for the long-haul 757-200 market segment is being launched, that is when I will believe they are serious about it.  
 
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:13 pm

I would love to see Boeing try to sell a new 736 vs. the C-series.     
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
I'm sure they could easily find more used -600s if they needed them.

That to me summarizes this whole discussion. Boeing used to say "The number one competition to a new Boeing plane is a used Boeing plane." The models that are no longer offered have too much competition on the used market to be worth offering new.

IF Boeing's backlog was shorter, they might have a different attitude on discounting.

Quoting dlednicer (Thread starter):
It has been six years since the last 737-600 was delivered.

I've only flown once on the 736 and really liked it. However, since the flight was 100% full, I was wondering why they didn't fly the 73G...

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
but in the end FX decided to order the 767-300F.

We both know financing now has a huge impact on aircraft purchases. The 764F would have been unique and thus of low resale value. The same is true of those models Boeing doesn't offer as new build anymore. The low resale value of used examples makes them more attractive than new (Boeing has no reason to produce at a loss today).

In the case of the 736, even relatively new examples are worth more as parts than flying.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Similarly, if you *really* want a 762 or 736 and won't settle for anything else, they can build you one, but they'll be scratching their heads all the way to the bank.

And demanding cash on the barrel as what bank would finance either low-resale value airframe?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Here, have a look at our fine line of pre-owned aircraft...

   With appropriate service contract...

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tdscanuck
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 38):
"Boeing chief executive Jim McNerney confirms a replacement for the long-haul 757-200 market segment is being studied internally, adding potentially a new layer to the 737 Max concept."

Why would they bring it up at all? Certainly most people can see a gap that 757/767/A330 will leave behind in the future?

There is a *huge* difference between a 757 replacement (what you brought up) and a replacement for the 757-200 *market segment* (that McNerney brought up). The former is an airplane, the latter is a mission.

Everyone, including the OEM's, can see the gap between the largest narrowbody and the smallest widebody. Something will show up to fill that gap when before the 757's disappear (in about another 15-20 years). That is NOT the same thing as replacing the 757.

Tom.
 
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RE: The End Of The 737-600?

Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 30):
I'm surprised that the 764ER of all is still listed since there were only 37 of them built, all of which are owned by DL and UA.

There were 38 built and the last is reportedly a VIP bird.

37 were built for CO (now UA) and DL. Much later one was built for the US military to be used as a prototype for the E-10A. The program was canceled and the 38th was sold to Bahrain as a VIP aircraft.

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