LAXintl
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Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:42 pm

All 3 routes end August 31st per announcement today.

Unlike normal routes which get chopped due to profitability, these are being dropped as G4 finds itself gateless at LAX.

Long story, but G4's initial terminal (T6) at LAX was taken over by Alaska in March, and since the carrier had to move in and be handled by Delta Airlines at T5. This has been a less than ideal situation cost and service wise.

Story:
http://www.kimatv.com/news/local/165628826.html
and
http://billingsgazette.com/news/loca...6-c4d9-5ff5-be4b-4010ba644f58.html

=

[Edited 2012-08-09 15:51:22]
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enilria
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:45 pm

Is G4 shutting LAX??
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Unlike normal routes which get chopped due to profitability, these are being dropped as G4 finds itself gateless at LAX.

There have also been some other unusual drops in the past on other, bigger airlines.

DL dropped FWA-MSP due to runway construction at MSP in 2009 that would have caused delays, but resumed the route several months later when construction was done. The resumption of FWA-MSP was initially on a summer seasonal basis, then made permanent after FWA-CVG was discontinued. Currently, it is 2x daily for the summer, but will revert to 1x daily for the fall and winter.

As for G4, I wonder if they will start looking at alternate airports for the LA basin. As much as they get panned here on a.net for their treatment of ONT, maybe LAWA can cut them a similar or better deal there so the terminals there can be used for more than just filming TV commercials.
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LAXintl
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:01 pm

No they will still have 6-7 markets for the fall from LAX at the moment.

G4 has a bit of odd scheduling with multiple flights almost on top of each other. DL notified them they cant handle and allocate gate space come 9/1 so G4 had to thin the schedule out.

Problem is, for the right money G4 can find a home at LAX, however with their thriftiness this is a bit of a challenge.

As they say, no money, no honey   
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:38 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
As for G4, I wonder if they will start looking at alternate airports for the LA basin. As much as they get panned here on a.net for their treatment of ONT, maybe LAWA can cut them a similar or better deal there so the terminals there can be used for more than just filming TV commercials.

   I don't think G4 will pay enough to open a terminal back up again...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):

Problem is, for the right money G4 can find a home at LAX, however with their thriftiness this is a bit of a challenge.

As they say, no money, no honey

Alas, their model is built on being *cheap*!

Lightsaber
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:59 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
As for G4, I wonder if they will start looking at alternate airports for the LA basin. As much as they get panned here on a.net for their treatment of ONT, maybe LAWA can cut them a similar or better deal there so the terminals there can be used for more than just filming TV commercials.

BUR and SNA obviously wouldn't work, ONT would be the only other option in the greater Los Angeles area that G4 could relocate to, if they needed or wanted to. I have always said it was short sighted of them to ditch their LGB slots. I know they could not support their entire LA basin operation via LGB, I hope they will add the flights back when they can, I'm sure the travelling folks in those communities would appreciate it.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:02 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
I don't think G4 will pay enough to open a terminal back up again...

Didn't G4 pay for most of the AZA terminal expansion?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
Alas, their model is built on being *cheap*!

  
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:10 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
BUR and SNA obviously wouldn't work, ONT would be the only other option in the greater Los Angeles area that G4 could relocate to, if they needed or wanted to

Just prior to the announcement of LAX, the rumor/thought/hope (you pick) was that they were going to open SBD. As far removed from the attractions of the region as SBD is, I understand why it or ONT might not be viable options.

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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:23 am

Why (other than cost) couldn't G4 use LAX Terminal 2? When I was there in May (on Sun Country) it was pretty empty and will be even more empty once NZ and AF move out.
 
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:07 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 7):
Just prior to the announcement of LAX, the rumor/thought/hope (you pick) was that they were going to open SBD. As far removed from the attractions of the region as SBD is, I understand why it or ONT might not be viable options.

Depends on the attraction. According to Google Maps, the ONT to Disneyland and LAX to Disneyland distances are within a couple miles of each other. I mostly see G4 pax as Disneyland/Orange County visitors, with Hollywood/Universal Studios/Beverly Hills being a side trip. The "Los Angeles" vacations on G4's website are (not surprisingly) tilted toward Orange County and Disneyland. ONT also happens to have available gates and ticket counter space. LAX neighbors would probably not miss the MD80 noise, or the dozens of carloads of tourists diverted off their roadways.

SBD is about 20 miles east of ONT, but it is closer to Palm Springs. In 2010, the Development Agency was offering $2M for 2 years + $1M in startup costs to the first two airlines to offer 12 flights a week. However within the last year that funding vanished in one of our state's numerous budget crises.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:42 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 9):
nds on the attraction. According to Google Maps, the ONT to Disneyland and LAX to Disneyland distances are within a couple miles of each other. I mostly see G4 pax as Disneyland/Orange County visitors, with Hollywood/Universal Studios/Beverly Hills being a side trip. The "Los Angeles" vacations on G4's website are (not surprisingly) tilted toward Orange County and Disneyland. ONT also happens to have available gates and ticket counter space. LAX neighbors would probably not miss the MD80 noise, or the dozens of carloads of tourists diverted off their roadways.

Well, from personal experience ONT has worked fine for me - in a pinch - to go to Disneyland/Orange County but I ususally use Long Beach. I actually haven't been through LAX in years. If ONT is truly equidistant, I guess that's good.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 9):
SBD is about 20 miles east of ONT, but it is closer to Palm Springs. In 2010, the Development Agency was offering $2M for 2 years + $1M in startup costs to the first two airlines to offer 12 flights a week. However within the last year that funding vanished in one of our state's numerous budget crises.

I find ONT to be a perfectly suitable gateway to Palm Springs so SBD would not seem to offer too much - closer to the desert but much further away from the attractions.

I enjoy ONT and wish it would have more success. The economy out that way seems to really be in the dumps.

-Dave
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:46 am

I am quite sure ONT would be happy to play ball and offer low landing fees and other offers to attract a large operation like G4, leaving the possibility of ONT-HNL service, in fact I'm surprised G4 has not announced the route. It seems with BOI and GEG being announced from HNL, G4 is not afraid of starting new unproven markets with flights to and from HNL.
If G4 can't get what they want from LAX go elsewhere, they are no strangers to using secondary airports AZA, BLI, SFD why not ONT? G4's cheap needs could likely be met out there, and plenty of space to accommodate the current schedule plus room to expand with little restraint.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Problem is, for the right money G4 can find a home at LAX, however with their thriftiness this is a bit of a challenge.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
Alas, their model is built on being *cheap*!

On one side, cutting these routes right at Labor Day weekend and screwing over vacations for a number of customers is not the smartest business sense for a small market -- one could argue they could easily make other accomodations, especially at least for Labor Day weekend and then ease out of the markets if needed. On the other side, the sudden reduction of service *at* Labor Day weekend could be seen as a bellwether for market performance.

Pick your poison.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:16 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 11):
If G4 can't get what they want from LAX go elsewhere, they are no strangers to using secondary airports AZA, BLI, SFD why not ONT? G4's cheap needs could likely be met out there, and plenty of space to accommodate the current schedule plus room to expand with little restraint.

You do know that ONT is slot restricted and has serious noise rules that are not favorable to the MD80's series of planes that G4 currently has.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 13):
You do know that ONT is slot restricted and has serious noise rules that are not favorable to the MD80's series of planes that G4 currently has.

I find that incredibly unlikely given the dearth of service and the UPS hub there. Perhaps you were kidding but forgot the smiley?

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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:55 pm

Sorry I was thinking SNA! My bad.
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stapleton
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:00 pm

Wasn't Allegiant going to end Billings - Los Angeles service in November anyway? Missoula - Los Angeles still shows ending in November along with Northwest Arkansas - Los Angeles.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:20 pm

Allegiant does lots more than bring tourist to LA basin.

In one of their earning calls they had a chart that showed that the LA flights had a surprisingly high component of local sales of people that opted to travel on G4 to many of these smaller communities.

Moving to an ONT or SBD would virtually kill that side of the business for G4.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:50 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
Didn't G4 pay for most of the AZA terminal expansion?

They funded some of the first terminal expansion, which was needed but a FAA grant is funding the second expansion which is going on now.

How many gates does AS have in T6? Also since DL is handling AS now (correct?) DL is parking planes at T6 as well?

[Edited 2012-08-10 11:51:34]
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:42 pm

Pretty sure the old NW gates are sitting wide open and have been for quite sometime.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):
How many gates does AS have in T6?

Its a bit variable as they have preferential use of a couple also. But essentially they could have up to 8 at time, but the schedule does not call for anything as busy.
Also FIS is open till 7pm. After they go to TBIT.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):
Also since DL is handling AS now (correct?)

No DL has nothing to do with AS handling in T6. They have their own staff above wing, and Menzies below.


Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):
DL is parking planes at T6 as well?

Yes but rarely these days.
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aaway
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:05 pm

I suspect G4 will move to T-3 in due course, once the renovations are completed.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:31 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
BUR and SNA obviously wouldn't work,

Why not BUR? Farther from Disney, yes, but is that it?

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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 22):
Why not BUR? Farther from Disney, yes, but is that it?

I would think lack of space as BUR is pretty compact, and is kept pretty busy with the current schedule. The other reason is noise, The MD-80 would probably not be looked at favorably by the locals.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:41 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Allegiant does lots more than bring tourist to LA basin.

In one of their earning calls they had a chart that showed that the LA flights had a surprisingly high component of local sales of people that opted to travel on G4 to many of these smaller communities.

Moving to an ONT or SBD would virtually kill that side of the business for G4.

Maybe things have changed but I thought G4 really didn't want people who are buying an airline ticket only. The company makes it's money of ancillary revenue and that the airlines was just a means to an end. I thought rental cars, hotel rooms, etc are where the cash comes in.
 
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 23):

I would think lack of space as BUR is pretty compact, and is kept pretty busy with the current schedule. The other reason is noise, The MD-80 would probably not be looked at favorably by the locals.

AA flew MD80s there for years and only just recently pulled out. BUR would be nice, still close to everything like Hollywood, Universal Studios. Would there be enough space to run a focus city operation there? I flew there a couple years ago and the terminal seemed rather cramp
 
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 25):
AA flew MD80s there for years and only just recently pulled out. BUR would be nice, still close to everything like Hollywood, Universal Studios. Would there be enough space to run a focus city operation there? I flew there a couple years ago and the terminal seemed rather cramp

I haven't been there in years -- it used to be my local airport -- but in the 90's the place was hopping, with AA, WN, HP, , DL, and AS operating multiples of flights (and few if any RJs), seemingly like a well oiled machine, despite the vintage facilities. My understanding it that traffic is well off from that peak, so thought there would be room, particularly on the west end of the terminal where most of the majors have cut back.

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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting aaway (Reply 21):
I suspect G4 will move to T-3 in due course, once the renovations are completed.

Who is currently in T3? Doesn't G4 only use two gates in LAX?
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting rampart (Reply 22):
Why not BUR? Farther from Disney, yes, but is that it?

BUR would work for G4 also. It is only a few miles further from OC than ONT or LAX is, and the CPE probably about 25% of those other airports. Makes you wonder why G4 didn't go with BUR in the first place, unless it was too crowded then but isn't now.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
LA flights had a surprisingly high component of local sales of people that opted to travel on G4 to many of these smaller communities.

The idea of business travelers booking itineraries that have less than daily frequencies, no FF program, on a carrier catering to vacationers with kids is counter intuitive. Maybe the idea of non-stop mainline equipment rather than regional jet or prop could attract a few reverse-flow customers. But any reverse-flow business travel on G4 would be surprising. The question is how big that business market between LA and Billings, Pasco, or Sioux falls really is. Then we would know what a dent in that market segment really would cost G4.
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iowaman
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:44 pm

Certainlly disappointing to see these routes cut. I'm assuming these were routes that were overlapping other higher performing routes. This leaves the following routes from LAX:

BLI
XNA
SGF
DSM
EUG
FAR
GJT
IDA
MSO
ICT
MFR
 
LAXintl
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:03 pm

G4 is free to try BUR, there is vacant space, and low rents, however from what I gather that would have performance issues with the MD-80 at BUR and is why they ruled it out previously.

The sardine 166 seat MD-80 would not get too far off 6700ft runway and nearby hills.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 28):
The idea of business travelers booking itineraries that have less than daily frequencies, no FF program, on a carrier catering to vacationers with kids is counter intuitive. Maybe the idea of non-stop mainline equipment rather than regional jet or prop could attract a few reverse-flow customers. But any reverse-flow business travel on G4 would be surprising. The question is how big that business market between LA and Billings, Pasco, or Sioux falls really is. Then we would know what a dent in that market segment really would cost G4.

Its not business travelers - its leisure folks - LA residents that maybe want to go see family in various cities.

G4 in one of their management presentations said that its Los Angeles focus market had the highest percentage of outbound local sales in its network and were pleasantly surprised at this niche it developed.
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:41 pm

If memory serves me RIV (March Air Force Joint Reserve Base) and ONT are close to each other. Do both facilities share runways or are they two separate airfields? If RIV is set up to handle commercial flights it seems like it would be G4 would have it in their line of sight.
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Beardown91737
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
The sardine 166 seat MD-80 would not get too far off 6700ft runway and nearby hills.

OK back to ONT for G4.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
local sales of people
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
Its not business travelers - its leisure folks - LA residents that maybe want to go see family in various cities.

My mistake, I was reading "local sales people". Maybe they will follow G4 to ONT, since not everyone who gets on a plane at LAX lives near it. After all, no one lives west of LAX.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 31):

March ARB does not have the PAX facilities. It is 20 mi east of ONT. SBD is about 10 mi north of RIV.

Quoting LV (Reply 24):
Maybe things have changed but I thought G4 really didn't want people who are buying an airline ticket only. The company makes it's money of ancillary revenue and that the airlines was just a means to an end. I thought rental cars, hotel rooms, etc are where the cash comes in.

Agreed, but to ban ticket sales in the opposite direction they would have to be a charter operator like "Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays operated by ATA" was.
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aaway
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:53 am

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 27):
Who is currently in T3? Doesn't G4 only use two gates in LAX?

Jetblue, Spirit, Virgin America, Virgin Australia. Alaska's 40 (+/-) arrivals/departures have been backfilled by only approximately 20 arrivals/departures.
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CIDFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:24 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
G4 is free to try BUR, there is vacant space, and low rents, however from what I gather that would have performance issues with the MD-80 at BUR and is why they ruled it out previously.

The sardine 166 seat MD-80 would not get too far off 6700ft runway and nearby hills.

how many seats did AA's MD80's have? They used to fly to DFW from there.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 34):
how many seats did AA's MD80's have? They used to fly to DFW from there.

140.

When temps were very high, or winds kicked in needing runway 33, AA would have to make short hop over to ONT, LAS, PSP etc before continuing.
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
G4 in one of their management presentations said that its Los Angeles focus market had the highest percentage of outbound local sales in its network and were pleasantly surprised at this niche it developed.

I don't remember more recent info, but this Sept 2009 presentation slide put LAX at 35% reverse (outbound) traffic.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...0110465909055581/g271151mmi017.gif
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dbo861
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting iowaman (Reply 29):
Certainlly disappointing to see these routes cut. I'm assuming these were routes that were overlapping other higher performing routes. This leaves the following routes from LAX:

BLI
XNA
SGF
DSM
EUG
FAR
GJT
IDA
MSO
ICT
MFR

Is DSM still operating? Their website doesn't show any flights available after 8/12.
 
iowaman
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:00 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 36):
I don't remember more recent info, but this Sept 2009 presentation slide put LAX at 35% reverse (outbound) traffic.

That's impressive. I believe a few years ago I read that LAS was just in the single digits.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 37):

Is DSM still operating? Their website doesn't show any flights available after 8/12.

Good catch!

It looks like LAX-FAR is suspended from now until 11/14.
LAX-GJT ends tomorrow.
LAX-IDA is gone.
LAX-ICT Is gone

This leaves:
BLI
EUG
MSO
MFR
FAR (restarts 11/14)
XNA
SGF
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):
That's impressive. I believe a few years ago I read that LAS was just in the single digits.

The same 2009 slide put LAS at about 14% at that time.
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stlgph
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):

Last conference call did state Allegiant was wanting to boost Orlando departures by 20% - planes have to come from somewhere. Personally would have liked to have seen Los Angeles work though, but we'll see what ends up happening (ultimately) at the station.
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stapleton
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 38):
It looks like LAX-FAR is suspended from now until 11/14.
LAX-GJT ends tomorrow.
LAX-IDA is gone.
LAX-ICT Is gone

This leaves:
BLI
EUG
MSO
MFR
FAR (restarts 11/14)
XNA
SGF

A couple of corrections:

IDA returns 11/16
MSO ends 11/12
XNA ends 11/11

This would leave the following after the middle of November I believe:

BLI
EUG
MFR
FAR
IDA
SGF
 
SANFan
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:05 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 40):
Personally would have liked to have seen Los Angeles work though, but we'll see what ends up happening (ultimately) at the station.

I don't know if this thread is about a failing operation at a SoCal airport or just a temporary setback there due to space and money issues. Probably a bit of both?

I just thought I'd mention that Allegiant has not set the world on fire at SAN either. There was talk -- before they opened LAX -- of a possible 'destination' being established at Lindbergh Field. That never happened of course, but even their experiment of starting a second route from SAN (to MRY, in addition to BLI) only lasted a little over a year. And now G4 is down to just 2 weekly flights to BLI this summer. (From as many as 4x weekly in 2010.) And they never even tried SAN-FAT (in spite of lots of encouragement from a few of us!) Now AS is in both the MRY and FAT markets from SAN, and it wouldn't completely shock me if we woke up some morning to see AS announce a couple of BLI-routes to at least 2 aiports in the "bottom" of California...

PSP is really the only other SoCal airport served by Allegiant and it only has one route as well - also BLI. (I don't particularly consider SMX as a Southern California station but if it's included, in addition to LAS, it will see service to HNL. So ultimately, 2 destinations.)

In other words, G4 and SoCal don't seem to be a match made in heaven so I guess I'm not real surprised to see LAX being "consolidated". Personally, I would be very surprised to see Allegiant try to open a station at any other LA-area airport. Seems kind of strange to see a very successful carrier keep striking out in a pretty popular tourist area that has pretty good year-round weather...

bb
 
stlgph
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 42):

If Allegiant wouldn't had been cheap and had put some money forward and made an investment, they could have staked a claim to their own space. Instead, they're 'relying on someone else' and now it's "far too convenient" to suddenly have space issues.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
LAXintl
Topic Author
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:05 pm

For those that say G4 should look at a secondary airport in LA basin, you forget that G4 already had that opportunity and settled on LAX on two occasions.

When the whole SoCal focus market was being formed in late 2008, other airports including ones such as SBD were heavily courting G4 but they settled on LAX.
Also for some reason G4 picked up some LGB slots in 2010, but by end of 2011 they walked away from the airport and settled on LAX again.

As has been shown over and over, each one of the smaller airports is OK on its own for what they are - a local community airport. However its hard to serve the broader LA basin from them as people are not willing to drive far and wide to access them.
Many airlines have discovered this - JetBlue probably being the most visibile recent one which also had to set up shop at LAX to capture the broader basin market.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 36):
I don't remember more recent info, but this Sept 2009 presentation slide put LAX at 35% reverse (outbound) traffic.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...0110465909055581/g271151mmi017.gif
It is almost all VFR. But as they pointed out, they don't advertise in the LA basin. Passengers find the nonstops to the small cities thru word of mouth or other means.

Thanks for digging that up.

Its rather amazing percentage imo, considering G4 has ZERO advertising in this market. Clearly there are good number of keen local folks that want to access some of these markets and find out about G4.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 43):
If Allegiant wouldn't had been cheap and had put some money forward and made an investment, they could have staked a claim to their own space. Instead, they're 'relying on someone else' and now it's "far too convenient" to suddenly have space issues.

  . LAX is a big airport and lots of options, however it can cost a little money to play like the big boys.

But ultimately, I can see G4 find a home in another terminal like T3 or T2.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 42):
I don't know if this thread is about a failing operation at a SoCal airport or just a temporary setback there due to space and money issues. Probably a bit of both?

Allegiant historically has not been afraid to say why routes are being cancelled, sometimes upsetting locals with the honesty.

I expect space is this reason and these are the least profitable of the LAX operation at this time.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 42):
And they never even tried SAN-FAT (in spite of lots of encouragement from a few of us!) Now AS is in both the MRY and FAT markets from SAN,

So far, it looks to me like AS' new FAT-SAN flights have been filling with business traffic rather than vacation/VFR. Fares don't show movement upward except for travel within 7 days of booking. But many of the flights appear to have good loads when they do depart.

The route going to AS instead of G4 may been the best move if vacation travel is running lower than we expected.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 44):
For those that say G4 should look at a secondary airport in LA basin, you forget that G4 already had that opportunity and settled on LAX on two occasions.

Its an interesting contrast with Orlando. G4 experimented with moving from SFB to MCO in 2010 but in less than a year decided to stay at the secondary airport.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 44):
Its rather amazing percentage imo, considering G4 has ZERO advertising in this market. Clearly there are good number of keen local folks that want to access some of these markets and find out about G4.

Probably the family and friends back home tell the Southern California residents about the nonstops.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 44):
But ultimately, I can see G4 find a home in another terminal like T3 or T2.

My guess is T3 will be the ultimate home. But we will see.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:09 am

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 13):
You do know that G4 currently has.

Quite the opposite, ONT is the only other LA area airport that could even come close to handling G4's operation vs LAX.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 44):
Its rather amazing percentage imo, considering G4 has ZERO advertising in this market. Clearly there are good number of keen local folks that want to access some of these markets and find out about G4.

I've noticed the same thing in the Bay Area, I think most people who fly G4 are going to LAX, than leaving LAX, unless you need to go to one of G4's secondary cities and you don't require flexibility in your travel plans.

ONT is a natural fit for G4, using alternate airports everywhere they fly, if possible. hy not then in the LA Basin? It's not like one would be flying G4 to connect via LAX to other airlines, so IMO LAX and G4 don't really fit to the rest of the network. I'm not saying they always are using alternate fields but many are.

[Edited 2012-08-17 01:55:26]

[Edited 2012-08-17 01:57:48]
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Beardown91737
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 44):
As has been shown over and over, each one of the smaller airports is OK on its own for what they are - a local community airport. However its hard to serve the broader LA basin from them as people are not willing to drive far and wide to access them.
Many airlines have discovered this - JetBlue probably being the most visibile recent one which also had to set up shop at LAX to capture the broader basin market.

I don't know if the extra 25 miles LAX-LGB was that big a deal, but considering it is on the 405, maybe it was. It would seem that B6 wanted some relief from a slot shortage at LGB.

News articles about the BIL / FSD / PSC service ending say that the CPE at LAX is $2 less than at ONT. If that isn't true now, it was when Allegiant moved into LAX. For 10 flights of 166 seats, that is about $3300 per day, which gets into the $1M per year range.

G4 is now announcing they will serve Columbus OH from the smaller Rickenbacker (LCK) airport, so they sure aren't looking for big city glitz, but when they get a $1M hit in the bottom line, they put up with flying 45 NM farther on each leg, and taxiing an extra few minutes for arrival and departure, and all the chaos that surrounds LAX.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 45):
My guess is T3 will be the ultimate home. But we will see.

G4 will eventually wind up at ONT. LAWA doesn't accomodate them at LAX. BUR doesn't have the runway, LGB doesn't have enough slots, SNA doesn't have the runway or slots.
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LAXintl
Topic Author
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:13 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 47):
I don't know if the extra 25 miles LAX-LGB was that big a deal, but considering it is on the 405, maybe it was. It would seem that B6 wanted some relief from a slot shortage at LGB.

25-miles mattered as overnight B6 saw jumps in yield as the door was opened to a whole new market and population base which would never venture to a community airport like LGB.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 47):
PE at LAX is $2 less than at ONT.

Yes LAX is lower cost then ONT.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 47):
G4 will eventually wind up at ONT.

If it does, I think it will have a hard time.

It might be workable trying to sell ONT to outsiders as being Los Angeles, however virtually no one from the LA basin will venture out to ONT to catch a flight - a group that makes up 35% of their customer base at LAX.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC

Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 47):
G4 will eventually wind up at ONT. LAWA doesn't accomodate them at LAX. BUR doesn't have the runway, LGB doesn't have enough slots, SNA doesn't have the runway or slots.

Maybe, but only if costs at ONT drop.

I think too many people confuse Allegiant's model. They go into the lower cost airport in their destination cities, typically that is a secondary airport but it isn't always.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain

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