flybry
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Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:37 pm

Looks like Air India's dream of eventually joining Star Alliance is officially over and the airline will now pursue a tie up with either Skyteam or oneworld.

"To be part of the alliance, every member has to agree and that has not happened, especially after the pilots' strike, when we lost a lot of credibility," said Ajit Singh, India's minister for civil aviation. "They have said no. We have asked Air India to look for other options and alliances."

http://www.thenational.ae/thenationa...ar-alliance-fails-to-gain-lift-off

http://www.travelbizmonitor.com/air-...on-to-star-alliance-rejected-17293

http://www.business-standard.com/ind...a/news/ais-star-dream-ends/482772/
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:48 pm

This was in the 9W thread but deserves its own discussion.

The question is, will any alliance want AI post the latest strike? They are not the airline they were when LH sponsored them for *A. (IIRC 2007)

Lightsaber
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Motorhussy
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:48 pm

Just hope AI's major shareholder doesn't continue to put up obstacles to real competition in the India market and creates an even playing field for other sub-continental carriers.

Glad they're finally giving up on star - good luck to oneworld and Skyteam.
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cmf
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:43 am

Quoting flybry (Thread starter):
To be part of the alliance, every member has to agree and that has not happened, especially after the pilots' strike, when we lost a lot of credibility

Is the pilot strike a reason for the rejection or is it a display of what made the other airlines didn't want to approve them? Or is it AI's excuse?

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 2):
Glad they're finally giving up on star

With the other airlines rejecting them, how do you conclude AI gave up?
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lightsaber
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:18 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 2):
good luck to oneworld and Skyteam.

To gaining 6E?   

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b777a340fan
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:55 am

If AF or BA can join an alliance, I have hope that AI can too.
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:52 am

I called the HK office because I wanted to see if I needed a transit visa, and I needed to see why I could not book HKG-DEL-YYZ online. They were rude and impudent. I will not recommend it as a suitable alliance partner to ANY of the alliances until they understand what customer service really means.
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kiwiandrew

RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:21 am

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 6):
I called the HK office because I wanted to see if I needed a transit visa, and I needed to see why I could not book HKG-DEL-YYZ online. They were rude and impudent. I will not recommend it as a suitable alliance partner to ANY of the alliances until they understand what customer service really means.

If we are going to ban airlines from alliances on the basis of one very bad experience at one office then the alliances are going to have very few members!
 
jumpjets
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:47 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 5):
If AF or BA can join an alliance, I have hope that AI can too.

I doubt even the most AF/BA phobic a.netter would put them in the same camp as AI! However your comment raised a thought in my mind.

AF/BA didn't so much join an alliance as start one [in conjunction with a few friends]. Maybe this is the route for AI - form a new alliance with some of the other non-aligned airlines. They could use the EU and US blacklists as a good place to start.
 
larspl
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:47 am

Yes Jumpjets, the main reason of starting an alliance is not flying to every place yourself however you can send your passengers every where via your alliance partners.
If you build your alliance around partners who are not allowed to fly any where, your alliance is going no where.

Or should i read your post with sarcasm and is the smiley missing?
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bastew
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:55 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 5):
If AF or BA can join an alliance, I have hope that AI can too.

Yes AI is very similar to BA of AF.....maybe 25 years ago!
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 5):
If AF or BA can join an alliance, I have hope that AI can too.

I hope your not serious. AF and BA are in a WAY better position than AI at the moment!
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airbazar
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 8):
Maybe this is the route for AI - form a new alliance with some of the other non-aligned airlines.

The point you're missing is that no one seems to want to partner with AI, the biggest problem being the Indian government's deep involvement and protection of the airline.

Quoting cmf (Reply 3):
Is the pilot strike a reason for the rejection or is it a display of what made the other airlines didn't want to approve them? Or is it AI's excuse?

I'm going to say that the Indian government not allowing LH to operate the A380 into Indian airports in order to protect AI had to play a part in it too.
 
jumpjets
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:14 pm

Quoting larspl (Reply 10):
Or should i read your post with sarcasm and is the smiley missing?

Yes you are of course absolutely correct worth a heavy layer of sarcasm. In my naivety I imagined that even for a.net my statement was totally ridiculous and the sarcasm would shine through loud and clear. I'll remember the smiley next time. Sorry   
 
karan69
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:26 pm

Lets see who finally chooses them

The likes of BA/QF/CX/JAL/QR/UL/MH/RJ which we know as One World and are primarily national airlines or legacy carriers and are wholly or partly govt owned themselves just like AI

Or sky team which really needs some asian presence

But i highly doubt any alliance wants them especially after a 4 year debacle with Star



Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
I'm going to say that the Indian government not allowing LH to operate the A380 into Indian airports in order to protect AI had to play a part in it too.

That was more a knee jerk reaction to AIs rejection by star last year

Karan
 
jumpjets
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 18):
The likes of BA/QF/CX/JAL/QR/UL/MH/RJ which we know as One World and are primarily national airlines or legacy carriers and are wholly or partly govt owned themselves just like AI

I am sorry to criticise but that's a pretty inaccurate statement. The major players in Oneworld - IAG [BA and IB], LAN, FI,AB are all publicly quoted companies on their local stock exchanges. AA and JL are transitioning through restructuring but will be fully listed once those processes are complete.

S7 is 70%+ owned by two individuals [don't know who own the rest]

CX is 30% held by Air China which I guess makes it in effect partly government owned but its major shareholder is a non-Chinese business.

So that leaves RJ and newcomer MS as government owned.

I am not sure Oneworld would look upon an airline run by a government who sees operational intervention as a right as a prime new member. I will now of course be proved wrong and AI will be welcomed onto Oneworld by the end of the week.  
 
EddieDude
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:44 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 18):
Or sky team which really needs some asian presence

Does it really? China Airlines, China Eastern, China Southern, Korean Air, Vietnam Airlines and soon Garuda and Xiamen Airlines do not seem to me to equate to poor or lacking Asian presence. If you get technical, substantial portions of Russia (whose flag carrier is Aeroflot) Lebanon (whose flag carrier is MEA) and Saudi Arabia (whose flag carrier is Saudia) are in Asia too, although I am assuming you meant East Asia only. Where SkyTeam lacks presence is the Indian subcontinent.
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sq_ek_freak
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 8):
Maybe this is the route for AI - form a new alliance with some of the other non-aligned airlines. They could use the EU and US blacklists as a good place to start.

LOL!

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 12):

What qualities or lack thereof do you use to make that profound sophmoric statment?

Not really dodgy, but not world class or an industry leader - Aeroflot, Vietnam Airlines, China Southern Airlines, TAROM, CSA, China Eastern, AeroMexico, MEA, Kenya Airways, China Airlines - and none of these airlines are particularly known for their service either. Alitalia from what I understand is improving rather dramatically.

In my mind its really Delta, KLM, Air France and Korean Air that prop the alliance - be it through the stellar service they offer or the expansive network they have, or both. CZ's and MU's service is really really poor but then again CA in Star isn't exactly known for service either - but access to China is important and no mainland Chinese carrier offers you a nice product.

True outlier in my opinion is Saudia - I don't get what the hell they offer to the alliance in terms of a reputable product, a network, or connectivity at any of their hubs (hell, even access to their hubs is severely restricted as is!).

Future members Aerolineas Argentinas has been on the brink forever and offers substandard service. I don't know much about Xiamen Airlines but Garuda should prove to be a great member.

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 20):
So that leaves RJ and newcomer MS as government owned.

Did I miss something here - Egypt Air is in Star I thought?
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karan69
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:37 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 16):
although I am assuming you meant East Asia only. Where SkyTeam lacks presence is the Indian subcontinent.

Yes my friend, Also South East Asia, there is a lot of traffic between India and SIN/HKG/BKK/KUL and i doubt if any sky team airline serves the market

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 15):
I am not sure Oneworld would look upon an airline run by a government who sees operational intervention as a right as a prime new member

I agree as i said no alliance would want AI especially after what happened with Star,

But do not under estimate the power of government intervention especially in India, just see the result of LH not being allowed to get their 380s into India and no further talks on bi laterals between India and Germany , this ofcourse a kneee jerk entry to LH and star rejecting AI.

Infact LH did use this[government intervention] to their advantage when AI initially looked to be a promising partner, i do know some cases but without proof i do not want to start a debate

Karan
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 11):

I hope your not serious. AF and BA are in a WAY better position than AI at the moment!

It was more a sarcastic comment. But the previous discussions centered mainly on AI's recent strike, which isn't an unfamiliar sight at AF and BA. I do know that financially, etc., AF and BA are in different positions.
 
jumpjets
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 17):
Did I miss something here - Egypt Air is in Star I thought?

Yes you missed one tiny point - my post concerned the ownership of Oneworld members, not Star.
 
drmlnr1
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm

I hope that OW can come to an agreement on AI joining and them kicking out Kingfisher. AI would be better for OW than Kingfisher. Any thoughts?
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staralliance85
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:02 am

9W should join *A. ENd of story
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:43 am

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 22):
9W should join *A. ENd of story

Little late for that, now, wouldn't you say?
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LJ
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 22):
9W should join *A. ENd of story

My recollection of the financial performance of previous quarters is that 9W isn't actually doing great financially. though not a s bad as IT, 9W doesn't seem to be able to make a profit as well. Thus though 9W might be a good addition from a service point of view, it's not that Star would add a strong partner (financially).

Quoting Drmlnr1 (Reply 21):
I hope that OW can come to an agreement on AI joining and them kicking out Kingfisher. AI would be better for OW than Kingfisher. Any thoughts?
Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 17):
Not really dodgy, but not world class or an industry leader - Aeroflot, Vietnam Airlines, China Southern Airlines, TAROM, CSA, China Eastern, AeroMexico, MEA, Kenya Airways, China Airlines - and none of these airlines are particularly known for their service either. Alitalia from what I understand is improving rather dramatically.

AI would be perfect for Skyteam. Skyteam loves to pick up run down national airlines, which can be turned around into much better airlines. Good example is KE which is now seen as a good airline (and if I'm not mistaken AZ and GA are also going the same route).

BTW AM may be not so good, but there is no option in Mexico at the moment. If you look at Skyteam it looks like the managed to get the airlines in their top markets. Saudia is a usefull airline for oil traffic (one of AF/KLs core focus market). Kenya enables Skyteam to protect its position in Africa (which African airline will OW pick up?) and it is able to have a foothold in the lucrative (and increasing) China - Africa markets.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 18):
Also South East Asia, there is a lot of traffic between India and SIN/HKG/BKK/KUL and i doubt if any sky team airline serves the market

But is India indeed a market where you can make a lot of money? You can't serve every market and India hasn't proven to be a very profitable market for its own airlines (with the exception of the LCCs). Moreover other than the Gulf airlines I doubt many airlines make a lot of money on India (at least from Europe or the US).
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Star Alliance Shuts Air India Out For Good

Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 3):
With the other airlines rejecting them, how do you conclude AI gave up?

A sense of irony is sometimes hard to convey subtly in writing; I was meaning that with the *alliance making it patently obvious they are not wanted, AI will finally give up their aspirations to join the world's largest airline network. Good luck to the other networks with this hot-mess trying to join them now.
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