PHX787
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Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:59 am

So a curiosity search of Dulles International turned up that the EI flight from IAD to MAD is ending on Oct. 30.

I may have missed something (OAG thread, Irish thread) but I have a few questions:

Why was this route around? It's no where near Ireland. Was there some sort of codeshare connected to it?

Why is it therefore going away? Some things come to mind: 1) economy of Ireland 2) slumping EI and 3) the route itself


Thanks, and my apologies if this was covered before
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ASFlyer
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:14 am

It was operated on behalf of UA. There was quite a bit of controversy surrounding it when it started. Many thought it was UA's beginning of an attempt to break their unions. The crews on this flight were US based and US citizens that were hired specifically for this one flight.
 
PHX787
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:18 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 1):
It was operated on behalf of UA. There was quite a bit of controversy surrounding it when it started. Many thought it was UA's beginning of an attempt to break their unions. The crews on this flight were US based and US citizens that were hired specifically for this one flight.

is EI in *A ?
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ei912
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:25 am

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Why is it therefore going away? Some things come to mind: 1) economy of Ireland 2) slumping EI and 3) the route itself

1) More so the economy of Spain, as the route itself has nothing to do with the Irish market.

2) I would hardly call EI 'slumping' at the moment, they might not be going through huge growth at the moment, but they are performing very well both short and long haul considering the current situations in Ireland and the EU.

3) The route was started before the UA/CO merger when UA's own long haul aircraft were considered a bit premium heavy, and EI could operate the route cheaper than UA could. EI managed all operations of the route (aircraft, crew etc.) while UA promoted and sold the route via the UA network. The route caused huge tension among the ranks of UA crew and pilots as it was considered outsourcing, which it was. UA now also have access to CO's aircraft, which are configured more suitably to the market. One question though, does UA plan to continue the route on their own?

Nevertheless, it was a successful project for EI as the route performed pretty well and it allowed them to stabilise the 330 fleet while restructuring the long haul strategy in the past years.
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hiflyer
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Think about it...the EI IADMAD was a large thorn in the side of ALPA at United who considered it their work contracted out. ALPA was taking it public and up to Congress. However...after two years of complaining and no still new contract the route was canceled the first part of the week and ALPA had a tentative agreement two days later. Coincidence? If you still believe in the tooth fairy...yes.
 
bhmdiversion
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:32 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):

is EI in *A ?

Aer Lingus is a member of OneWorld
 
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aerdingus
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 5):
Aer Lingus is a member of OneWorld

Nope EI left a good few years ago, as restructuring began to reinvent itself as an LCC.
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rutankrd
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:53 pm

Aer Lingus is nonaligned.

Codeshares with KLM (Skyteam) to Amsterdam, BA to Heathrow (One world) and UA (*A) to Heathrow and for a few weeks more (MAD-IAD) and interlines with many more !
 
a318
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:54 pm

I'm still trying to figure out what's going to happen to the US based cabin crews. Are they being laid off? I posted this question in the thread that first mentioned the ending of this route but no one knew the answer.
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STT757
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting EI912 (Reply 3):
One question though, does UA plan to continue the route on their own?

I think UA will, at some point, launch IAD-MAD on their own. The 757 would be perfect for the route, IAD-MAD is shorter than EWR-BCN.
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Eagleboy
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 4):
Think about it...the EI IADMAD was a large thorn in the side of ALPA at United who considered it their work contracted out................However...after two years of complaining and no still new contract the route was canceled the first part of the week and ALPA had a tentative agreement two days later. Coincidence?

I would guess it was a factor but not a decisive factor. it seems that the 'New' United were not as happy with the UA/EI joint venture than the pre merger UA.

Quoting A318 (Reply 8):
I'm still trying to figure out what's going to happen to the US based cabin crews. Are they being laid off?

I would guess they will be laid off. Anecdotally there was a large turnover of staff. In addition these staff were US citizens and would not have been able to work in the EU.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
I think UA will, at some point, launch IAD-MAD on their own. The 757 would be perfect for the route,

This makes sense.The original choice of EI as a partner seems to based on the economics of the EI A330 (which is Y heavy) over the more C/J configured UA aircraft.
 
BestWestern
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:44 pm

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 10):
it seems that the 'New' United were not as happy with the UA/EI joint venture than the pre merger UA.

It's all down to the Spanish economy. Since IB pulled the route, there is nobody operating it this winter.

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 10):
This makes sense.The original choice of EI as a partner seems to based on the economics of the EI A330 (which is Y heavy) over the more C/J configured UA aircraft.

UA had no suitable fleet pre merger. Not sure if this route will return with a 757 next summer.
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PHX787
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 11):
It's all down to the Spanish economy. Since IB pulled the route, there is nobody operating it this winter.

Does this route run with profitability, though?
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flylku
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:49 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
I think UA will, at some point, launch IAD-MAD on their own. The 757 would be perfect for the route, IAD-MAD is shorter than EWR-BCN.

What about one of the domestic 767-300s or an ex CO 767-400s. One post suggested that UA wide bodies where a bit too premium heavy for this route. Would the two aircraft I mentioned above be more in line with the EI A330 that was on the route (in terms of premium to economy ratio)?
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maxamuus
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 11):
It's all down to the Spanish economy. Since IB pulled the route, there is nobody operating it this winter.

I venture to say it was killed 100% at the hands of ALPA.
 
SKY1
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:38 pm

On Nov. 2010 the former Continental's station manager at MAD told me the joint-venture with EI to IAD was about to get its end. On that time it was being scheduled to be the last flight MAD-IAD on March 31, 2011 but if wasn't because according some rumor EI could take CO to the court claiming breach of contract. I have no idea what happened and nor about that rumor is or isn't true but I'm sure CO wanted finished their EI cooperation as early as 2010 ...so this is not a taken-yesterday decision at all.

About UA having a plan to continue the route on their own, the answer seems to be "no". Their plans is even cutting their Madrid services out of Newark to 4xW services for the next winter except during Xmas.
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kiwiandrew

RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:05 am

Between the merger, the state of the Spanish economy, and the disappearance of Spanair which was the *A partner in Spain it is not too surprising that UA no longer sees this service as useful. It makes a nice easy concession to ALPA to give up something which no longer served it's purpose.
 
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:26 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 7):
Codeshares with KLM (Skyteam) to Amsterdam, BA to Heathrow (One world) and UA (*A) to Heathrow and for a few weeks more (MAD-IAD) and interlines with many more !

UA also codeshare on all of EI's US routes.
 
SKY1
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:40 am

The Spanair demise has had nothing to do about it. CO/UA gets few connections through Barajas airport and most are for domestic destinations in Spain across IB or UX

The UA biggest obstacle for the Spanish market is the current economy, the highly sensitive USA-Spain market between high and low season and a big, comprehensive competition specially on the NYC-MAD route.
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GALLEYSTEW
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:44 pm

I feel sorry for the people hired as cabin crew to fly this route. They were promised the world with new routes to come/expansion. Anyone in this business, however, knows "promises," aren't genuine and aren't lived up to. If you are to survive this industry, you have to expect change and lots of it. As someone stated earlier, there has been a lot of turn over. One route, same trip, bad layover location in Madrid. No real future. Those that were hired for this "TEST," have been considered back stabers/SCABS by both Aer Lingus and UA employess. I don't think so, and in this economy, jobs were hard to come by. I wish them all luck with future endevours in these turmultuous times.
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OA260
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting GALLEYSTEW (Reply 19):
I feel sorry for the people hired as cabin crew to fly this route. They were promised the world with new routes to come/expansion. Anyone in this business, however, knows "promises," aren't genuine and aren't lived up to.

Indeed I wish them all well in getting new jobs and I guess it wont look bad on the CV anyway having EI on it .
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Aer Lingus Ending IAD-MAD; Questions

Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting GALLEYSTEW (Reply 19):
Those that were hired for this "TEST," have been considered back stabers/SCABS by both Aer Lingus and UA employess. I don't think so, and in this economy, jobs were hard to come by

Nearly every U.S. airline, except AA, has been hiring since the inception of this ridiculous idea. These people could have applied with UA, CO, DL, AS, WN, B6, FL, VX, US, not to mention all of the regionals that are constantly hiring. All of these airlines have hired FA's in the last several years since EI/UA started this operation. These people made the CHOICE to work for EI to cover these flights. While the economy hasn't been great, Flight Attendant jobs have been readily available for those that were interested. I don't feel bad for them at all. Most of them were well aware of the controversy surrounding this operation when they agreed to take these jobs.

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