AV8AJET
Topic Author
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Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:00 am

Just curious why DL didn't operate any B744's to LHR during the peak times to and from the Olympics? I remember back when ATL had them that even BA added B744 service with an additional B763ER service from LGW. I'm just surprised and did any other airline servicing LHR up gauge aircraft during this period?
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
PHX787
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:11 am

Given the fact that it's a O.W. hub and not a SkyTeam hub I don't really think such an upgage was necessary. However, I haven't really heard anything about any other upgages so any other upgage could be possible.
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spiritair97
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:32 am

I read somewhere that there really weren't any upguaged flights this year. I also knew some people who traveled to London and they said that everybody (locals) had left England because they were told that it would be so crowded and there was hardly a crowd. This was outside of the Olympi Village, but still.
 
doug_or
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:12 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):

Given the fact that it's a O.W. hub and not a SkyTeam hub I don't really think such an upgage was necessary.

Given Olympic traffic would be O&D not connecting it doesn't really matter whose hub it is, does it?

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):

I read somewhere that there really weren't any upguaged flights this year.

I've heard the Olympics tourists pretty much just displaced the normal summer tourists who are staying away to avoid the expected Olympic crowds.
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bmibaby737
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:45 am

Airlines were told over a year ago that they would not be allowed to bring in larger aircraft or any additional flights to those already scheduled at Heathrow.

Flew out of Heathrow this week to Geneva and the airport and flights were dead, and these were peak travel times. London was also very quiet.
 
GCPET
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:59 am

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 4):
Flew out of Heathrow this week to Geneva and the airport and flights were dead, and these were peak travel times. London was also very quiet.

I also flew out of Heathrow this week. No delay's what so ever and coming back we didn't even have to go in the holds! This was at peak times of the day too so maybe Heathrow is coping very well with the Olympics!

GCPET
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Bobloblaw
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:06 am

What DL had potential to gain would have to offset the loss of downgauging 744s to Japan in the summer. Shouldn't call it upgauging. It should be called a swap. Somewhere else there would be a downgauging.
 
skymiler
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:46 am

I think that the answer is "no demand"!

I received a notification from DL offering a very aggressive business class fare to LHR during the Olympics. Only catch was that I had to book by 4 July!

As an expat Brit, I would have taken it in a heartbeat, had my schedule permitted.
I love to fly, and it shows!
 
sw733
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:09 pm

A good friend of mine decided to head to the US Women's football game and flew over on Delta from MSP-LHR. Said the flight was only about 75% full, as opposed to the same flight last year that was 100% full during the same week (ironically, he went two years in a row during the same week). I have heard similar stories over the last couple weeks.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting GCPET (Reply 5):
we didn't even have to go in the holds! This was at peak times of the day

What??? That sounds very odd, if you don't mind me asking, what was the flight?
 
jumpjets
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:41 pm

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 4):
London was also very quiet.

Not really on topic but just had an e mail from the London transport authorities which said:

'During the Games, the Tube carried over 60 million passengers, an increase of 30 per cent compared to last year; that’s more passengers than at any time in our 149 year history. The DLR carried over 6 million passengers, an increase of over 100 per cent compared to last year and London Overground carried almost 6 million passengers, an increase of 47 per cent compared to last year.'

That's roughly transporting the whole population of New Zealand or Ireland every day that the games were on.

Don't know where they all were if you found London quiet, and it sounds like they weren't at heathrow either!
 
pualani
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:06 pm

I non revved there on 7/27 on AA and there was 60+ seats open. I can attest as to how crowded the Tube was...PACKED and no AC !! Coming home (also on AA) I was the last NR to get on.


pualani
 
CXfirst
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 10):
'During the Games, the Tube carried over 60 million passengers, an increase of 30 per cent compared to last year; that’s more passengers than at any time in our 149 year history. The DLR carried over 6 million passengers, an increase of over 100 per cent compared to last year and London Overground carried almost 6 million passengers, an increase of 47 per cent compared to last year.'

I've also heard that the lack of ordinary summer tourists offset (at least partly) the incoming Olympics tourists. So, I wouldn't be surprised if Heathrow didn't see much more than normal, as the additional passengers came through other London airports. As for public transport in London, I would hazard to guess that most of the additional passengers were not overseas passengers, but local population travelling into the centre, which combined with overseas passengers gave huge increases.

-CXfirst
 
onebadlt123
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:59 pm

I was thinking we would upgrade our flights as well (UA) but after I sat down, and started working my usual Europe routes I realized a lot of our flights still were 777 and 757 service to London. No changes or no upgrades. Meh
 
ordflier
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:01 pm

Generally during an Olympic Games one will find much lower than normal air traffic *while* the Games are active. The 3 week period leading up to, and generally the 1st week after the Games will be busy due to the arrival and departure of media, athletes, support structure, members of the Olympic Family, and of course spectators. Once the Games start traffic generally takes an abrupt turn downward unless the airport(s) and carriers(s) have strong historical connection traffic which can compensate.

During the Games, while not all business suspends, many locals tend to go on holiday to avoid what may be expected to be the challenge of local transport, security barriers, venue traffic, etc and thus drives down business air traffic during the games. Budget conscious tourism also takes a relative hit during the Games as hotel prices generally are inflated and many of the brand name hotels will be at capacity. This is especially true is medium sized cities.

If an up gauge in equipment was warranted, it would have occurred generally in the day or two at the conclusion when the bulk of the departure traffic operates. Given London's already strong transportation system with multiple airports as well as the high number of departures on all carriers that currently operate out of London to North America it is doubtful that any additional capacity would have been needed - or warranted.

[Edited 2012-08-13 08:03:48]
ORDflier
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:08 pm

Keep in mind many companies where avoiding normal business travel to London during the games due to perceived logistical issues, security, and expensive hotel rooms. So "normal" business travel likely dropped during the games for such that could be scheduled before or after the games.
 
GCT64
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:40 pm

There have been a few upgauges today (13 Aug) during Olympic departure day, but not many:

SU = 2 x A330s (normally A320/1)
LX = 1 x A330 (normally A320/1)

That looks to be about it.
Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,(..53 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:18 pm

Today is supposed to be a massive day at LHR with over 100,000 passengers transiting. But many of those bodies that are moving are also flying to nearby Europe on smaller more frequent aircraft.


That being said, in addition to not as many regular tourists not coming during this period as said above, Brits aren't traveling through Heathrow in normal numbers because everyone feared chaos. Brits that left London to escape the anticipated congestion drove, took the train and left from alternative airports as well.
So I think the cross Atlantic flights are probably flying fuller (it has still been a bit softer than usual before the Olympics) but I don't think many "special" flights have been added or major upgrades have taken place.
 
GCPET
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 9):

What??? That sounds very odd, if you don't mind me asking, what was the flight?

Came back on the BA276 from Hyderabad around 12 on Saturday  

GCPET
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FI642
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting skymiler (Reply 7):

That is exactly it, lack of demand.
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airbazar
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 10):
Don't know where they all were if you found London quiet, and it sounds like they weren't at heathrow either!

They were in the Tube going to and from the Olympic venues, rather than walking around the typical tourist sights 
Manny of them probably stayed outside of London where lodging is cheaper and took public transportation in and out. That's what usually happens during the Olympics in any city and in part why there is so much concern about Rio, because as I understand it the public transportation system in Rio is not on par with the likes of other hosting cities.
 
gigneil
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:05 am

The actual reality is there are flights to/from 3 major airports to just about every corner of the planet.

Atlanta has one airport, that (in 1996) was sparsely served internationally - a far cry from the routes there are today. Most itineraries were connecting ones at the time, London service was only to LGW, and as a result upgauging of flights from major carriers made a lot of sense.

NS
 
vv701
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:14 pm

Upgrading flights to LHR with larger aircraft cannot be carried out on a whim but requires the prior authority of the slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd. As their web site clearly illustrates the number of available slots varies from hour to hour. This variation at what for most of the day is a slot bound airport in part reflects variations in the aircraft size between different slots. Different minimum separation distances are required between both arriving and departing aircraft depending on the sizes of consecutive aircraft. Slot availability is also dependent upon the terminal's ability to handle the number of arriving and departing passengers and the availability of aircraft stands of a suitable size. Substututing a 744 for a smaller aircraft could potential cause problems on all three counts.

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 4):
London was also very quiet.

Not on the two occasions I ventured into London - once on a weekday, once on a Saturday - during the Olympics. For example on the Saturday visit there were passengers standing in my carriage for the whole of the 90 minute terminus-to-terminus homeward train journey. This was not a unique occurrence but it is far from usual. Similarly, as is confirmed by the Transport for London passenger figures referred to by jumpjets in Reply 10, all public transport within London was, while I was there very crowded. Clearly a 30 per cent year-on-year passenger growth on the tube to 60 million passengers creating the busiest ever period in 149 years in incompatible with any suggestion that London was "very quiet". Or did those 60 million passengers all stay underground?
 
AV8AJET
Topic Author
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:32 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
Upgrading flights to LHR with larger aircraft cannot be carried out on a whim but requires the prior authority of the slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd. As their web site clearly illustrates the number of available slots varies from hour to hour. This variation at what for most of the day is a slot bound airport in part reflects variations in the aircraft size between different slots. Different minimum separation distances are required between both arriving and departing aircraft depending on the sizes of consecutive aircraft. Slot availability is also dependent upon the terminal's ability to handle the number of arriving and departing passengers and the availability of aircraft stands of a suitable size. Substututing a 744 for a smaller aircraft could potential cause problems on all three counts.

That is very helpful thank you very much for the information!
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
skipness1E
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:14 pm

CENTRAL London was quiet, a very different story out East believe me!
 
lucky777
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:17 pm

From the sound of it, it would appear an equipment downguage might have been the better call for quite a few airlines. One would have to assume the Olympics scared off those not attending the games.
 
Dizzy777
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
Upgrading flights to LHR with larger aircraft cannot be carried out on a whim but requires the prior authority of the slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd. As their web site clearly illustrates the number of available slots varies from hour to hour. This variation at what for most of the day is a slot bound airport in part reflects variations in the aircraft size between different slots. Different minimum separation distances are required between both arriving and departing aircraft depending on the sizes of consecutive aircraft. Slot availability is also dependent upon the terminal's ability to handle the number of arriving and departing passengers and the availability of aircraft stands of a suitable size. Substututing a 744 for a smaller aircraft could potential cause problems on all three counts.

A further point to this is that, aside from slot provisions, there is a maximum pax inbound and out bound per hour at most international airports (incl LHR)

purely to illustrate point: http://www.coordaus.com.au/ this is a link to australia's coordination site (still searching for LHR version), click on "coordination guidelines" and select a season
 
jimbobjoe
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:06 am

Quoting skymiler (Reply 7):
I received a notification from DL offering a very aggressive business class fare to LHR during the Olympics. Only catch was that I had to book by 4 July!

What was the fare?
 
skymiler
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:08 pm

Quoting jimbobjoe (Reply 27):
received a notification from DL offering a very aggressive business class fare to LHR during the Olympics. Only catch was that I had to book by 4 July!

What was the fare?



I believe (and this may be touch off, so I apologise if wrong) about $US 1750 rt.
I love to fly, and it shows!
 
vv701
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting Dizzy777 (Reply 26):
A further point to this is that, aside from slot provisions, there is a maximum pax inbound and out bound per hour at most international airports (incl LHR)

This is correct. As I had altready pointed out

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
Slot availability is also dependent upon the terminal's ability to handle the number of arriving and departing passengers

At LHR these restrictions are:

T1: 1,500 domestic, 930 CTA and 1,600 arriving and 2,200 departing passengers in any one hour period
T3: 3,500 arriving and 3,000 departing passengers in any one hour period
T4: 1,800 arriving and 1,650 departing passengers in any one hour period
T5: 3,750 international arriving and 4,500 departing (all destinations) passengers in any one hour period

[Note: "CTA" equals Common Travel Area, namely the whole of the British Isles including the Republic of Ireland.]

Source for the above data:

http://www.acl-uk.org/reportsStatistics.aspx?id=98&subjectId=33

"LHR S12 Start of Season", p. 3

I am not sure about the T5 data and the absence in the above report of data for domestic arriving passengers. In an earlier report ("S10 Start of Season") the slot coordinator, Airport Coordination Ltd, provided the following data for T5 maximum passenger capacity in any one hour:

T5 Domestic Arrivals: 1,150
T5 International Arrivals: 3,750
T5 Domestic Departures: 1,900
T5 Total Departures (Domestic + International): 4,500

The non-distinction between "Domestic" and "International" departing passengers reflects the fact that both types have to go through the same security procedures. The differentiation between arriving passengers reflects the requirement of "International" arrivals to pass through UK Border Agency controls.

As an aside the distinction between "Domestic" and "International" passengers suggests to me that we are unlikely to see consolidation of the CTA BA and BD flights (including DUB) at any time soon into T5. If this were to happen the CTA passenger handling facilities in T1 would be redundant and need to be updated to meet "International" passenger needs and T5 simply could not handle the total number of BA CTA passengers. I am therefore guessing that BA will consolidate most or all its UK mainland flights in T5 but will continue to use T1 for its recently acquired BHD and DUB flights at least for the foreseeable future and probably until well after the full reopening of T2 (assuming they maintain these services).
 
jumpjets
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:10 pm

There may not have been a DL 744 in town for the Olympics, but I read that QF sent a specially painted 744 to STN to pick up the Ozzie team - not sure if anyone can confirm that.
 
vv701
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 30):
I read that QF sent a specially painted 744 to STN to pick up the Ozzie team - not sure if anyone can confirm that.

This is being reported by the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19239328
 
vv701
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 30):
I read that QF sent a specially painted 744 to STN to pick up the Ozzie team

The Qantas Source at

http://www.theqantassource.com/

is reporting that the aircraft concerned was 744 VH-OJU that operated BNE-LAX as QF15 and then LAX-JFK as QF107 before positioning JFK-STN (QF6008) on 13 August.

It operated STN-???-SYD (QF6058) carrying the Australian Olympic team home.

The Qantas Source does not mention any special livery. It is possible that the BBC was confused as 'JU is painted in oneworld livery and not the standard QF livery.
 
jumpjets
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:14 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 32):
The Qantas Source does not mention any special livery

If I recall correctly from the article where I saw the story [but can't now remember where] the kangaroo on the tail had been given a pair of boxing gloves and there were additional boxing kangaroo stickers near the front of the plane.

Just found a picture - though not sure if this was the plane that came to Stansted.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-olymp...c-games-boxing-kangaroo-boeing-747

I also notice that the 'Spirit of Australia' strap-line has been amended to 'Spirit of the Australian team'
 
rutankrd
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:34 pm

Stansted has taken many/most of the Olympian charter flights

Various Russian State Il96 /Il62M and IL76, Azerbaijan 767/and smaller biz jets, the QF 744 yes it was VH-OJU with the boxing marsupial , Olympic A320, Transavia 737s , Kuwaiti A320, Czech AF A319, Basilian RJ, numerous government jets , including a 722 and 77A from Africa and 2 China southern A332s to mention just a few.

Also a US C17 and USA B737 visited (Wonder who for ?)

The regional airfields such as LTN/FAB Northolt and Biggin Hill have handled hundreds of BIZ JETs for Media/VVIP and Royals and Politicians
 
vv701
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 33):
Just found a picture - though not sure if this was the plane that came to Stansted.

Thanks for posting the photo. The accompanying text says:

"Anthony Jackson caught this great shot of the Boeing 747 (registration VH-OJU)" which is the aircraft that "The Qantas Source" reported as collecting the Aussie team from STN.
 
AV8AJET
Topic Author
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RE: Why No DL 744 Service To LHR During The Olympics?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:42 am

Would Love to see DL serve LHR from ATL on the B744 but not sure I'll ever see it.
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"