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enilria
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OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:40 pm

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

Quiet week  

9V MIA-BLA JAN 0.8>0.7 FEB 0.9>0.7 MAR 0.9>0.7 APR 0.9>0.7

AA LAX-JFK SEP 10>9 OCT 10>9 NOV 10>9 DEC 10>9 JAN 10>9 FEB 10>9 MAR 10>9 APR 10>9
AA ORD-FCO APR 0>1.0

AC DEN-YUL OCT 1.0>0.9
AC LAS-YUL NOV 1.0>1.3 DEC 1.0>1.3 FEB 1.2>1.3 MAR 1.0>1.3 APR 1.0>1.3
AC MCO-YHZ MAR 0.5>0.3 APR 0.5>0.3
AC MCO-YOW MAR 0.5>0.3
AC MEM-YYZ SEP 0.6>0.4
AC MIA-YUL DEC 0.4>0.7 JAN 0.4>1.0 FEB 0.4>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.4>1.0
AC MIA-YYZ DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
AC TPA-YYZ DEC 1.7>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3 MAR 2>3 APR 2>3

AM ATL-MEX FEB 0.9>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
AM LAS-MEX SEP 1.9>2
AM MIA-MEX DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5
AM SMF-GDL SEP 0.6>0.7

This market is going from 2x M88 and 1 CR7 to 4x M88. Interesting...
*DL ATL-CAK OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4
DL ATL-MAD FEB 0.7>0.6
DL ATL-ROA OCT 5>4
DL DTW-PIT SEP 6>5
DL HNL-FUK APR 0.8>1.0
DL JFK-VCE FEB 0.7>0.6
DL JFK-ZRH OCT 0.6>0
DL LGA-RDU OCT 8>9

F9 CLE-PUJ DEC 0.0>0.2
F9 DEN-ATL DEC 3>1.9
*F9 DEN-AZA DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
*F9 DEN-BKG JAN 0.5>0.2 FEB 0.6>0.1 MAR 0.6>.1
F9 DEN-LAS JAN 6>5 FEB 6>5
F9 DEN-SFO DEC 5>4
F9 ORD-PUJ DEC 0.1>0.4
F9 PHL-PUJ DEC 0.0>0.2
F9 RFD-MBJ FEB 0>0.1

FJ LAX-HNL DEC 0>0.1

*HA HNL-OAK OCT 0.9>0.5 NOV 1.0>0.6 DEC 1.1>0.6 JAN 1.0>0.5 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6 APR 1.0>0.6
HA HNL-OGG SEP 28>29 OCT 28>29
*HA HNL-SJC OCT 1.0>0.5 NOV 1.0>0.4 DEC 1.0>0.4 JAN 1.0>0.5 FEB 1.0>0.4 MAR 1.0>0.4 APR 1.0>0.4
*HA LAS-OGG NOV 0.3>0.0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.3>0 FEB 0.3>0 MAR 0.3>0 APR 0.3>0
*HA OAK-OGG OCT 0.6>1.0 NOV 0.6>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.6>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0
*HA SJC-OGG OCT 0.4>0.9 NOV 0.4>1.0 DEC 0.4>1.0 JAN 0.4>1.0 FEB 0.4>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.4>1.0

HU SEA-PEK APR 0.6>0.7

IB JFK-MAD NOV 2>1.7 DEC 2>1.5 JAN 2>1.2 FEB 2>1.4 MAR 2>1.7
IB MIA-MAD DEC 1.5>1.3 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.1 MAR 1.5>1.6
IB ORD-MAD NOV 1.0>0.8 DEC 1.0>0.7 JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.7 MAR 1.0>0.9
*IB SJU-MAD NOV 0.7>0.3 DEC 0.9>0.5 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.6>0.2 MAR 0.7>0.3
IB SJU-SDQ NOV 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.1

JL ROR-NRT SEP 0>0.3

KL SFO-AMS NOV 0.9>0.7 DEC 0.9>0.7 JAN 0.8>0.7 FEB 0.9>0.7 MAR 0.9>0.7

KS BOS-PBG OCT 3>1.7 NOV 3>1.7 DEC 3>1.7 JAN 3>1.7 FEB 3>1.7 MAR 3>1.7 APR 3>1.7

TA MIA-GUA SEP 1.0>0.9
TA MIA-SAP SEP 1.0>0.9
TA MIA-TGU SEP 1.0>0.8

TS MCO-YUL JAN 0.5>0.4 FEB 0.7>0.6 MAR 0.9>0.7 APR 0.8>0.7

I think reverses a recent load
*UA CLE-FLL JAN 1.2>2.0 FEB 1.0>3 MAR 1.0>3
UA DEN-HSV OCT 1.7>1.0
UA DEN-YVR DEC 1.9>1.8
UA EWR-BOS DEC 10>9
UA EWR-BUF DEC 5>6
UA EWR-CHS DEC 3>4
UA EWR-GRR DEC 1.5>3
UA EWR-LAS DEC 7>5
UA EWR-YQB NOV 4>3
UA IAD-HSV DEC 1.8>1.4
This flight was being operated by Aer Lingus under a wet-lease of some sort
*UA IAD-MAD OCT 1.0>0.9 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0
UA IAD-YYZ DEC 6>5
UA IAH-MTJ OCT 0.1>0.0
UA LAX-HNL JAN 6>5 FEB 6>5 MAR 6>5 APR 7>6
UA LAX-KOA MAR 1.0>1.9
UA LAX-KOA MAR 1.0>1.9 APR 1.0>1.3
UA ORD-ATW DEC 5>4
UA ORD-BOS DEC 7>6
UA ORD-BZN MAR 1.2>3
UA ORD-DCA DEC 13>12
UA ORD-FLL MAR 2>3
UA ORD-LGA DEC 14>13
UA ORD-YYZ DEC 7>6
UA SFO-EWR DEC 9>10

US BOS-LGA NOV 14>13
US CLT-SJU NOV 1.9>3
US CLT-YUL NOV 2>1.8
*US DCA-MCI NOV 3>4 DEC 1.7>3 JAN 1.7>3 FEB 1.7>3 MAR 1.7>3 APR 1.7>3
US DCA-MSY NOV 4>5 DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 FEB 4>5 MAR 4>5 APR 4>5
US PHL-MDT NOV 8>7
US PHL-YOW NOV 4>3
US PHL-YUL NOV 6>5
US PHL-YYZ NOV 6>5
US PHX-YEG NOV 2>1.9
US PHX-YVR NOV 2>1.9

V2 CLE-MYR SEP 0.3>0.0
V2 CVG-MYR SEP 0.3>0.0
V2 IND-MYR SEP 0.3>0.0
V2 LCK-MYR SEP 0.3>0.0
V2 MYR-SDF SEP 0.3>0.1

WG LAS-YYZ OCT 0.4>0.5
WG MCO-YYZ OCT 0.1>0.2
WG PIE-YYZ OCT 0.1>0

WP BIL-HLN OCT 0.7>0 NOV 0.7>0 DEC 0.7>0 JAN 0.7>0 FEB 0.7>0 MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0
WP GDV-MLS SEP 1.7>0.7 OCT 1.7>0.7 NOV 1.7>0.7 DEC 1.7>0.7 JAN 1.7>0.7 FEB 1.7>0.7 MAR 1.7>0.7 APR 1.7>0.7

I think these mostly reverse changes from a week or two ago
Y4 FAT-GDL NOV 0.5>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.6>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0
Y4 LAS-GDL NOV 1.0>1.3 DEC 1.0>1.3 JAN 1.0>1.3 FEB 1.0>1.3 MAR 1.0>1.3 APR 1.0>1.3
Y4 LAS-MEX SEP 1.9>1.7 NOV 0.8>1.7 DEC 0.9>1.6 JAN 0.9>1.5 FEB 0.9>1.6 MAR 0.8>1.6 APR 0.9>1.5
Y4 LAX-AGU NOV 0.1>0.4 DEC 0.1>0.4 JAN 0.2>0.5 FEB 0.1>0.4 MAR 0.1>0.4 APR 0.1>0.4
Y4 LAX-GDL NOV 1.1>2 DEC 1.2>2 JAN 1.2>2 FEB 1.1>2 MAR 1.1>2 APR 1.2>2
Y4 LAX-MEX NOV 0.3>0.6 DEC 0.3>0.6 JAN 0.3>0.5 FEB 0.3>0.6 MAR 0.3>0.6 APR 0.3>0.6
Y4 LAX-MLM OCT 0.8>0.7 NOV 0.4>0.8 JAN 0.4>0.6 FEB 0.4>0.6 MAR 0.4>0.5 APR 0.4>0.6
Y4 LAX-UPN OCT 0>0.2 NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.2 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.2
Y4 LAX-ZCL NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.5 JAN 0.3>0.4 FEB 0.3>0.4 MAR 0.3>0.5 APR 0.3>0.4
Y4 MDW-BJX OCT 0>0.2 NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0>0.1 JAN 0>0.2 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.1 APR 0>0.1
Y4 MDW-GDL NOV 0.5>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.6>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0
Y4 MDW-MEX NOV 0.1>0.6 DEC 0.2>0.6 JAN 0.1>0.5 FEB 0.1>0.6 MAR 0.2>0.6 APR 0.1>0.5
Y4 MDW-MLM NOV 0.3>0.6 DEC 0.3>0.5 JAN 0.3>0.6 FEB 0.3>0.6 MAR 0.3>0.6 APR 0.3>0.6
Y4 MDW-ZCL NOV 0.1>0.3 DEC 0.2>0.3 JAN 0.1>0.3 FEB 0.1>0.3 MAR 0.1>0.3 APR 0.2>0.3
Y4 OAK-GDL NOV 0.7>1.3 DEC 0.7>1.3 JAN 0.7>1.3 FEB 0.7>1.3 MAR 0.7>1.3 APR 0.8>1.3
Y4 SAN-MEX NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.5 JAN 0.3>0.4 FEB 0.3>0.4 MAR 0.3>0.4 APR 0.3>0.4
Y4 SJC-GDL NOV 0.5>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.6>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0

ZK DEN-ISN NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4
 
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SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*HA HNL-OAK OCT 0.9>0.5 NOV 1.0>0.6 DEC 1.1>0.6 JAN 1.0>0.5 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6 APR 1.0>0.6
*HA HNL-SJC OCT 1.0>0.5 NOV 1.0>0.4 DEC 1.0>0.4 JAN 1.0>0.5 FEB 1.0>0.4 MAR 1.0>0.4 APR 1.0>0.4
*HA LAS-OGG NOV 0.3>0.0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.3>0 FEB 0.3>0 MAR 0.3>0 APR 0.3>0
*HA OAK-OGG OCT 0.6>1.0 NOV 0.6>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.6>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0
*HA SJC-OGG OCT 0.4>0.9 NOV 0.4>1.0 DEC 0.4>1.0 JAN 0.4>1.0 FEB 0.4>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.4>1.0

Very interesting happenings at HA. Switching the emphasis out of SJC/OAK to Maui, while axing LAS from OGG!

Looks like the changes from the Bay Area airports pretty much cancel each other out -- but still odd -- while perhaps the LAS-OGG a/c is needed for Brisbane and Sapporo, increased winter-season lift from the northwest, or some yet-to-be-announced addition...?

bb

[Edited 2012-08-13 10:31:02]

[Edited 2012-08-13 10:55:37]
 
tommy767
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:30 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA ORD-BOS DEC 7>6

Only 6x per day on ORD-BOS? Seems a little low for such a large business market.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
Very interesting happenings at HA. Switching the emphasis out of SJC/OAK to Maui, while axing LAS from OGG!

I wonder if G4 or AS is to blame for OGG being better now?

Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
while perhaps the LAS-OGG a/c is needed for AKL

I'm sure it is low fare. It's the one route of the bunch where the traffic is largely Hawaii originating.
 
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SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
I wonder if G4 or AS is to blame for OGG being better now?

Well, AS flies 1x daily from both SJC and OAK to both HNL & OGG (as well as the other islands) so I could see HA's connecting traffic to the outer islands via HNL could be seeing a downturn. In any case, this is, IIRC, the first time I've seen OGG-service outnumber HNL flights from any mainland city on HA! A few months ago we had a discussion going on about the new 'hub' that HA was developing at Maui. This might change the complexion of that idea. Very interesting...

Of course G4 doesn't fly directly from either OAK or SJC but they will be going from MRY, FAT, and SCK to HNL so there may be a bit of impact, especially for folks that may currently drive to the Bay Area to catch their Island-bound flight, from those new options.

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
I'm sure it is low fare. It's the one route of the bunch where the traffic is largely Hawaii originating

I'm trying to find the announcement of OGG-LAS service (and whether it was seasonal or not) but I know that it's a relatively new route for Pualani. I can say that Maui has apparently not worked out in some other markets in the past so this may just be another instance of that...

bb
 
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL JFK-ZRH OCT 0.6>0

Seasonal or another Star non-compete.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 2):
Only 6x per day on ORD-BOS? Seems a little low for such a large business market.

All A319s, small front cabin. Right now the route is operating with A320s, 738s and 739s.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
This market is going from 2x M88 and 1 CR7 to 4x M88. Interesting...
*DL ATL-CAK OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4

ATL-CAK is getting a lot more capacity
Current: 2x CR7, 1x CR9, 1x M88
Eff 8/14: 3x M88
Eff 10/1: 1x D95, 3x M88
Eff 11/5: 4x M88

DTW-CAK goes from 4x CRJ to 3x CRJ effective 10/1

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL JFK-ZRH OCT 0.6>0

Seasonal or another Star non-compete.

Seasonal. DL moved up the end-date to now be at the end of September. It was already scheduled to a be a seasonal flight.
 
peanuts
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL JFK-ZRH OCT 0.6>0

Ok, we know *Alliance rules @ZRH but you would think DL could at least attempt to go year-round on this route if they want to have any shot at some reliable premium traffic in the long run. Geez.

If I were DL, and I invest heavily in NYC for O&D and Premium traffic growth, why the hell tinker with ZRH? Put a 757 on it in Winter if you have to!

And while I'm at it: don't forget about GVA, DL...

Follow the high roller money trail.

*Alliance does plenty of damage @AMS with SkyTeam. SkyTeam shouldn't shy away from *Alliance strongholds.
 
diverdave
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA DEN-HSV OCT 1.7>1.0
UA IAD-HSV DEC 1.8>1.4

No love from UA for HSV.

They have pulled down the HSV schedule quite a bit, which is odd considering that the departure of AirTran (effective yesterday) should benefit yields.

David
 
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 7):
Ok, we know *Alliance rules @ZRH but you would think DL could at least attempt to go year-round on this route if they want to have any shot at some reliable premium traffic in the long run. Geez.

It's not like Switzerland is a VFR / sun/ beach market like Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey etc.. It's a business destination.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
peanuts
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:22 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
It's not like Switzerland is a VFR / sun/ beach market like Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey etc.. It's a business destination.

My point.

DL's mindset: let's keep bringing Pisa back every year!!! Yay!

Reason I'm aggravated about this: If you buy into DL's NYC mission, tinkering with ZRH and not challenging *Alliance strongholds is a huge mistake and lacks long term vision.
I know DL is trying to make short term balance sheets look great but this is crossing the line.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:29 pm

At least DL flies ATL- ZRH year-round.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:21 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
ATL-CAK is getting a lot more capacity
Current: 2x CR7, 1x CR9, 1x M88
Eff 8/14: 3x M88
Eff 10/1: 1x D95, 3x M88
Eff 11/5: 4x M88

So much for my theory that they would decide there is no point to throwing capacity at WN, as opposed to an independent FL...

Quoting diverdave (Reply 8):
They have pulled down the HSV schedule quite a bit, which is odd considering that the departure of AirTran (effective yesterday) should benefit yields.

Not odd. You will find the legacies add capacity where there is LCC competition and cut it when they leave. It's because when they jack up the fares the market shrinks and the reverse when an LCC enters and fares come down.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
At least DL flies ATL- ZRH year-round.

Does it seem to you like originally DL was trying to maintain year-round services out of NYC and more seasonal from ATL, but that has reversed in the last 2 years?
 
PVD757
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 2):
Only 6x per day on ORD-BOS? Seems a little low for such a large business market.

All A319s, small front cabin. Right now the route is operating with A320s, 738s and 739s.

ORD-PVD is also now showing 1X 320 for DEC. I know times have changed, but 5 or so years ago, there were 10X PVD-ORD flights at it's peak between AA and UA (all mainline). A 90% reduction is pretty amazing for this market pair, even in the current environment.
 
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:42 pm

Quoting pvd757 (Reply 13):
ORD-PVD is also now showing 1X 320 for DEC. I know times have changed, but 5 or so years ago, there were 10X PVD-ORD flights at it's peak between AA and UA (all mainline). A 90% reduction is pretty amazing for this market pair, even in the current environment.

PVD is doing a lot better than other markets like OAK, where CO and UA both have drawn down 100%. PVD, like OAK, suffers from being too close to a major airport.
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ANA787
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
Looks like the changes from the Bay Area airports pretty much cancel each other out -- but still odd -- while perhaps the LAS-OGG a/c is needed for Brisbane and Sapporo, increased winter-season lift from the northwest, or some yet-to-be-announced addition...?

Perhaps bringing back PDX-OGG.
 
codc10
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
All A319s, small front cabin. Right now the route is operating with A320s, 738s and 739s.

I expect larger equipment to be on the route once the final schedules are loaded closer to date of departure. The A319 is a placeholder much like the 737-800 was at old CO.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
PVD is doing a lot better than other markets like OAK, where CO and UA both have drawn down 100%. PVD, like OAK, suffers from being too close to a major airport.

They just got B6 which I'd say was surprising given B6 had stopped adding NE only stations with just Florida service.
 
PHX787
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-ATL DEC 3>1.9

Hmmmmmmm interesting reduction. Is WN pretty tough on this route?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
FJ LAX-HNL DEC 0>0.1

Hm Fiji is starting this route? Interesting.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*HA LAS-OGG NOV 0.3>0.0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.3>0 FEB 0.3>0 MAR 0.3>0 APR 0.3>0
*HA OAK-OGG OCT 0.6>1.0 NOV 0.6>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.6>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0
*HA SJC-OGG OCT 0.4>0.9 NOV 0.4>1.0 DEC 0.4>1.0 JAN 0.4>1.0 FEB 0.4>1.0 MAR 0.5>1.0 APR 0.4>1.0

Hm I guess HA is having difficulties with OGG on some routes but is doing better on others. This is interesting. Congrats to SJC and OAK? Are these A330 flights?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
This flight was being operated by Aer Lingus under a wet-lease of some sort
*UA IAD-MAD OCT 1.0>0.9 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

Ahhhh answers all the question on a previous thread:
www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5536622/
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tommy767
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
All A319s, small front cabin. Right now the route is operating with A320s, 738s and 739s.

Doesn't seem right at all. ORD-BOS usually gets 757s several times a day. Why the downgrade? Are they trying to loose business to AA on purpose?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
codc10
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:50 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):
Doesn't seem right at all. ORD-BOS usually gets 757s several times a day. Why the downgrade? Are they trying to loose business to AA on purpose?

Wait and see. The December schedule is not finalized.
 
Q
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:58 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):

Maybe Southwest MDW-BOS is cheaper fares than ORD-BOS markets.

Q
 
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RWA380
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:40 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
Very interesting happenings at HA. Switching the emphasis out of SJC/OAK to Maui, while axing LAS from OGG!
Quoting SANFan (Reply 4):
A few months ago we had a discussion going on about the new 'hub' that HA was developing at Maui. This might change the complexion of that idea. Very interesting...

Yes you are totally correct we were talking about the OGG secondary hub concept, IIRC HA had already increased flying OGG-ITO/KOA/LIH I wonder if this means those connecting flights may disappear as well.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 15):
Perhaps bringing back PDX-OGG

From your lips to Gods ears. I prefer taking the HA 767 vs AS 738 if given a choice, maybe it will come back for the season.
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masseybrown
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:19 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 6):
ATL-CAK is getting a lot more capacity
Current: 2x CR7, 1x CR9, 1x M88
Eff 8/14: 3x M88
Eff 10/1: 1x D95, 3x M88
Eff 11/5: 4x M88

CAK is probably seeing more Marcellus/Utica gas/oil traffic from IAH, MSY, and other Gulf Coast airports. Lots of drilling going on in eastern Ohio these days.
 
panamair
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
Seasonal or another Star non-compete.

Originally scheduled to end Oct 27 but moved up now. It ran until late October last summer as well, and performed decently, but Switzerland is ultimately still a pretty small market and in addition, this year there are some other factors working against it:
- the Swiss Franc is down this year against the US dollar, which means fewer Swiss are flying to the U.S, compared to the previous summers/fall when the Swiss would be heading to the US with empty suitcases to buy it up
- Swiss (LX) has added capacity this year by turning the ZRH-EWR flight into an A343 instead of a Privatair-operated all-Business BBJ, thus adding more Y seats to the market.
- Fall transatlantic travel is usually more Europe point-of-sale driven, and given the weakness across the continent, traffic is expected to be worse than previous years.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 10):
Reason I'm aggravated about this: If you buy into DL's NYC mission, tinkering with ZRH and not challenging *Alliance strongholds is a huge mistake and lacks long term vision.

Well, they do keep JFK-FRA running all year round despite the LH dominance and it being the weakest performer relative to FRA-ATL and FRA-DTW. The problem with ZRH is this:

- Switzerland is a small market, and given the lack of an alliance partner on one end, it cannot support two nonstops year-round (from both JFK and ATL). AA only serves ZRH from JFK, for example, given they also lack support on the Swiss end. Also, unlike say Belgium, where the local airline only entered the transatlantic fray recently, LX is a quality and dependable carrier that has been in the market for a long time (transitioning relatively seamlessly from SR). The bulk of the premium traffic in this market is carried by LX.

- Problem for DL and JFK-ZRH is, ATL-ZRH performs well. Only way to keep JFK-ZRH running year-round is to make ATL-ZRH seasonal, but like the German markets, the Switzerland to the Southeast USA market (and other beyond connections) performs better than to the Northeast.

- DL's mistake with JFK-ZRH began back in 2001 when it exited after 9/11, and AA entered JFK-ZRH. Given the size of the market, DL has had trouble re-entering it. They had the 757 for a few summers but the J product was frankly non-competitive, and they switched to the 767 last summer (2011) where it did decently well though the . As mentioned above, this year the market is not performing as well, and going into the fall with a 767 is just too much capacity....
 
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ADent
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:31 am

Quoting diverdave (Reply 8):
No love from UA for HSV.

They have pulled down the HSV schedule quite a bit, which is odd considering that the departure of AirTran (effective yesterday) should benefit yields.

Not only that but DEN-HSV used to be CRJ-700. Now it is typically ERJ-145.
 
JONC777
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:45 am

im sure DL's upgrade of service to CAK is a response to WN starting CAK. Although there is no WN, CAK-ATL its a protective move im sure. There will be a new WN schedule in 2 weeks opening up march, well see what happens.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-ATL DEC 3>1.9

Hmmmmmmm interesting reduction. Is WN pretty tough on this route?

I'm sure WN is going to be much stronger than FL was. Not sure that is already in effect. It takes time.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
FJ LAX-HNL DEC 0>0.1

Hm Fiji is starting this route? Interesting.

Looks to me like a Holiday special op or 2 or 3.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
Hm I guess HA is having difficulties with OGG on some routes but is doing better on others.

Keep in mind LAS is the only market among those where the tickets are largely sold in Hawaii. It is a very different market.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
This flight was being operated by Aer Lingus under a wet-lease of some sort
*UA IAD-MAD OCT 1.0>0.9 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

Ahhhh answers all the question on a previous thread:
www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/ge...6622/

I don't really get why this thing existed. I only noticed it this week.

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 26):

im sure DL's upgrade of service to CAK is a response to WN starting CAK.

I guess. They aren't going to get them to leave. It'll be interesting to see how WN responds to DL pressure.
 
chopchop767
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:51 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 20):
Wait and see. The December schedule is not finalized.

I too am surprised to see these reductions. I recall multiple 757s on the routing and BOS being one of the BusinessOne destinations out of ORD back in the day. Even with Southwest on the MDW routing, between US, UA, LH, Swiss, BOS surely has a large *Alliance FF base to keep people on UA metal. Moreover, Southwests' fares aren't always the cheapest.
this year: nap, lgw, fra, dub, fco, add, jib, muc, iad, sea, dca, bos, cdg, ist, bah, prg, ord, hsv, cmn
 
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SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:56 pm

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 15):
Perhaps bringing back PDX-OGG.
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 22):
From your lips to Gods ears. I prefer taking the HA 767 vs AS 738 if given a choice, maybe it will come back for the season.

Having looked into and thought about this some more since yesterday, I'd bet that the OGG-LAS a/c is in fact destined to help start the CTS (Sapporo) and BNE (Brisbane) routes (both starting in November when LAS-OGG stops and both also op'ing with the 763ER.) Maybe she'll also be used for the occasional NFL charter?

I believe the nonstop Maui-Vegas service began in fall of 2010 (October) and although operating ever since, has never gone daily. (It started out twice weekly.) My guess is that HA felt the a/c could be better used elsewhere.

Also, since PDX-OGG has not been announced for winter by now, I'd be pretty certain that the service is not returning this year.

bb
 
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RWA380
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:31 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 27):
Keep in mind LAS is the only market among those where the tickets are largely sold in Hawaii. It is a very different market.
Quoting SANFan (Reply 29):
Also, since PDX-OGG has not been announced for winter by now, I'd be pretty certain that the service is not returning this year.

There you go again crushing us Portlanders Bob.  
You are likely correct but since we don't get as many Hawaii flights as you spoiled SAN'ers we love to dream, plus in the season Oregonians pour over to the Islands, I know we will this year, but it will likely be G4 from EUG,UGH! speaking of G4's EUG-HNL flight, I expect that service to meet or beat expectations.
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SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 30):
You are likely correct but since we don't get as many Hawaii flights as you spoiled SAN'ers we love to dream, plus in the season Oregonians pour over to the Islands.

Hey now, last time I checked the winter sked's, PDX has nonstops (on AS) to all 4 islands plus a daily HA to HNL. Compare that to SAN's 2 AS flights (to only HNL and OGG) and 1 daily HA to HNL and I think the scale is definitely tipped in your favor!  

Who knows. The way things are happening now at HA, maybe we'll see them change their service pattern from PDX like they're doing in the Bay Area -- re-start PDX-OGG and cut PDX-HNL back to less than daily. There are a lot of the same dynamics in Oregon now as at SJC/OAK with G4 perhaps taking away some of the PDX-HNL traffic by adding nonstops from EUG plus AS flying nonstop to all the islands.   

But I will repeat that since it is now mid-August, IF Hawaiian were going to offer PDX-Maui service this "season" (with a November start date) they would be doing it VERY soon, just as they are announcing the winter changes from SJC and OAK now.

bb
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
PVD, like OAK, suffers from being too close to a major airport.

I'll take PVD over BOS even with the fifty miles which separate the two airports. At PVD there's less auto and people traffic which makes its easier to pass through security. Rental cars are less expensive when compared to BOS which is a no fault State. You save the airport fees if you rent off the airport; Time and time again I've found the airfares into and out of PVD are lower when compared to BOS.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
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RWA380
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:23 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 31):
with G4 perhaps taking away some of the PDX-HNL traffic by adding nonstops from EUG plus AS flying nonstop to all the islands.

OK, you are correct we do have 4 738's and a 763 a day to Hawaii, your flights will come as AS take delivery of a few more 738's, I feel it in my bones, or a seasonal lull may free up a frame.

As far as G4 making a dent out of the PDX market, I'd venture to say if it's a family or group of 4 or more, taking one car down to EUG then yes, it's worth it at a savings of about $100.00 per person on air only vs the regular fare on AS from PDX. After you take into account gas down to EUG and back, the 2 hour per direction drive, and parking at the EUG airport.

I may end up on it because we are going for 2 weeks with a couple from Springfield and they want to do this new service so I agreed, but I think it will cost more in the end. Plus a tightly packed 757 for 5 1/2 hours is not my idea of real fun, I take it only IFE is the stuff you bring with you or the clouds and water out your window?
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MSYtristar
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-ATL DEC 3>1.9

When will this change be made public? I still see 3 flights a day on many days in December.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 8/17/2012: DL/F9/UA/US

Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-ATL DEC 3>1.9

When will this change be made public? I still see 3 flights a day on many days in December.

It should be loaded in their system now. Could be an error or you just need to look at more days. Look between 12/25 and 1/1 and see if they cut to only 1 rt, for example...

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