727LOVER
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How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:48 pm

A few months ago, I saw a DL 757-200 with winglets and noticed that it was a -232. IBefore this, I did not realize that -232 had these. I knew that some of the NW birds had some. The only other ones I knew about were the exTWA/AA birds, and those only generally do transcons so I never see those. So when did DL start winglets on the -232s & how many sport these. Was this before the merger? Was it halted after the merger? Are there more planned?



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B757Forever
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
So when did DL start winglets on the -232s & how many sport these.

I don't recall exactly when the winglet installs started on the -232 domestic aircraft. It has been ongoing but very slow, I assume due to the nature in which DL controls capex. I have not looked recently but as of Jan 1, 2012, these aircraft (by DL ship number) were winglet equipped:
627
638
640
641
648
649
650
658
659
660
661
662
663
664
665
666
667
669
672
686
687
688
689
691 (not a -232 but I included it anyway)
693
694

So the emphasis is definately on the newer frames. I was a bit surprised to see ship 627, an April 1987 delivery, with winglets. I know the installs are ongoing and that the -300 aircraft are planned for winglets as well.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
727LOVER
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:33 am

OK, thanx------that is something I had just not noticed before.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
bmibaby737
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting B757forever (Reply 1):

I know of only three additional aircraft; N690DL, N692DL & N695DL
 
sweair
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:36 am

WL equipped 752s have a 4100 nm range compared to 3900 nm without, nice range boost with a wingtip. Probably saves a bit of fuel on domestic routes too?
 
mauriceb
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:19 am

Delta won't retrofit them all, since its replacement, the 737-900ER, will start to replace the oldest ones from 2013. Sure, a part of the deliveries will replace the A320 and 767 domestic, although the major part will be 757's.
And even though they only have 100 on order, im sure we will see some follow up orders to replace more frames.

I believe those winglets will pay themselves back in a couple of years, so im sure the people at DL are bussy doing the math  
 
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United_fan
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting B757forever (Reply 1):
I know the installs are ongoing and that the -300 aircraft are planned for winglets as well.

Are P&W 753's certified for them?
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B757Forever
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 6):
Are P&W 753's certified for them?

I can only make an assumption based on the data provided by APB on their website...

http://www.aviationpartnersboeing.com/products_757_300.php

Since DL owns the only 16 757-300 aircraft ever built with PW engines, it makes you wonder if the information on the APB website is purely marketing or a statement that they are readily available and certified.
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lucky777
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting B757forever (Reply 1):
I know the installs are ongoing and that the -300 aircraft are planned for winglets as well.

I'm fairly certain Delta IS NOT equipping the -300's with winglets. If they are i never saw the accouncement at least.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):

All they have ever said is Boeing 757s. Never said 200s or 300s.
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lucky777
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
All they have ever said is Boeing 757s. Never said 200s or 300s.

Indeed, but since winglets have only been certified on the RB-300's and not the PW's one would have to assume that winglets aren't in the cards for the Delta -300.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:32 pm

You'll notice that none of the early '80s deliveries, either PMDL or PMNW are getting winglets. Those are going to disappear in short order. Later deliveries (even late '80s and early '90s) will stick around a few more years, so the ROI is worth it in today's fuel price environment.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
I'm fairly certain Delta IS NOT equipping the -300's with winglets. If they are i never saw the accouncement at least.

A fairly knowledgeable poster here claimed yesterday on another thread that the -300s will get winglets as they will do even more long-distance flying following the retirement of the GE 763As. I don't think it would be all that difficult to certify them, given that there are only minor differences between the RR and P&W 753s. It wouldn't require the same amount of flight test that was needed for the original 753 certification.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
I'm fairly certain Delta IS NOT equipping the -300's with winglets. If they are i never saw the accouncement at least.

757Forever is a Delta mechanic. He was the one that also told us about the 757 CRTs being replaced with LCD monitors. He's also the one that kept us abreast of 624AG's progress. I think i'll take his word for it...

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 10):

Indeed, but since winglets have only been certified on the RB-300's and not the PW's one would have to assume that winglets aren't in the cards for the Delta -300.

Not currently being certified means exactly nothing. Because they're not currently certified doesn't mean they CAN'T I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. DL is the only one with the type so they will have to pay for the STC process. Apparently, they are ready to do so to get them certified. 10 or more years of flying is a LOT of time to get your money back.
What gets measured gets done.
 
B757Forever
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
I'm fairly certain Delta IS NOT equipping the -300's with winglets. If they are i never saw the accouncement at least.

Not every fleet initiative has a formal announcement. Upgrades such as Wi-fi, layflat seats or IFE typically get formally announced as they are customer friendly upgrades and the airline likes to draw attention to them. I am fairly certain most customers couldn't care less whether or not an aircraft has winglets. We will see the 757-300 aircraft getting winglets as they go through their heavy maintenance checks in the 2014-2015 time frame.
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United_fan
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:29 pm

FWIW,When I was @ FLL and MIA in April,I saw a lot of non-winglet DL 757's . I would imagine that they are using these non-winglet planes for relatively short flights til thier leases are up .
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 14):
FWIW,When I was @ FLL and MIA in April,I saw a lot of non-winglet DL 757's

It does appear to be that way but for those in the active fleet, it's the luck of the draw. There are quite a few 75Xs (PMDL 757s w/AVOD) that do not have winglets yet; yet they are regularly on the mid-cons ex ATL/DTW/MSP and transcons out of JFK (outside of LAX/SFO).

What DL has been doing is sending newer, low cycle frames to the desert to sit and having generally older frames doing the brunt of the flying. Running the cycles on those up. Also should be of note that PMNW 757s (non ETOPS ones) are primarly within the lower 48 as they are not overwater certified like DL's 752s.
What gets measured gets done.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:51 pm

I rode a Delta bird up to DTW that was a 232 with winglets, then flew a former Northwest one down N555NW that also had winglets.

There were a couple Delta 757-200s in the wavey gravy colors with winglets that I got pictures of at TPA and ATL. Any 757s they took from elsewhere like AA or TWA never went into wavey gravy colors to my knowledge, they went straight to the current scheme. These planes below are numbered N648DL and N660DL, which I assume were always Delta.


http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/618448.html

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/264726.html
 
B757Forever
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:53 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 16):
These planes below are numbered N648DL and N660DL

N648DL (DL ship 648) was the first -232 to have winglets installed.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:57 pm

Quoting B757forever (Reply 17):
N648DL (DL ship 648) was the first -232 to have winglets installed.

I assume 648 and 660 were wingletted before they revealed the new paint scheme with red widget. I didn't see any other pictures in my collection of Delta 757s that are in wavey gravy and winglets besides those 2 birds
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:23 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):
I assume 648 and 660 were wingletted before they revealed the new paint scheme with red widget. I didn't see any other pictures in my collection of Delta 757s that are in wavey gravy and winglets besides those 2 birds

Nope. Ship 638 was the first a/c to wear the new colors and it was unveiled to employees on April 30th 2007 during the companies BK emergence party in Atlanta. But 648 didn't get blended winglets until very late 2008 early 2009 not sure of the exact date.

[Edited 2012-08-14 15:26:55]
What gets measured gets done.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:58 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19):
Nope. Ship 638 was the first a/c to wear the new colors and it was unveiled to employees on April 30th 2007 during the companies BK emergence party in Atlanta. But 648 didn't get blended winglets until very late 2008 early 2009 not sure of the exact date.

I think we both misunderstood each other, but then you did answer my question about 648. I guess my question would be were any 757s wingletted before the reveal of the new paint scheme? 648 and 660 are the only 2 I know about that flew in wavey gravy with winglets and you said it was late 2008 for 648. The first 757s I ever saw in new colors at MCO were the wingletted ex TWA birds.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 20):
I think we both misunderstood each other, but then you did answer my question about 648. I guess my question would be were any 757s wingletted before the reveal of the new paint scheme? 648 and 660 are the only 2 I know about that flew in wavey gravy with winglets and you said it was late 2008 for 648. The first 757s I ever saw in new colors at MCO were the wingletted ex TWA birds.

No I understood you; the short answer's no. No DL 757 carried winglets before the new paint scheme came out. Shit 648 was the first PMDL 757 and that wasn't until late 2008. Before that, the ex TWA 757s got paint and winglets at the same time. So techically, they were the first but no, not before the new scheme was revealed. The paint scheme was officially revealed (on ship 638) on 30 April '07.
What gets measured gets done.
 
B757Forever
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:26 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 21):
No DL 757 carried winglets before the new paint scheme came out. Shit 648 was the first PMDL 757 and that wasn't until late 2008

Maybe I don't understand what you are saying   This photo shows 648 with winglets and a wavy gravy paint scheme.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta...d=2eec72a5a6a0566eed132c0dee515201
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:45 am

Quoting B757forever (Reply 22):
Maybe I don't understand what you are saying This photo shows 648 with winglets and a wavy gravy paint scheme.

His question is, did any DL 757 sport winglets before the new paint scheme came out. That would be no because the new paint scheme came out on 30 April 2007. Not one 757 was wingleted before then. It's already been established that some wore winglets in the wavy gravy but he was asking did any have winglets before Onward and Upward came out.

See

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 18):
I assume 648 and 660 were wingletted before they revealed the new paint scheme with red widget.

Onward and Upward was revealed 4/2007. 648 was wingleted in the winter of 2008. Really, the first would be whichever -2Q8 (ex-TWA) came on property first. They came to TechOps for the mods in the winter of 2007 and took a while to complete. So, the first -232 was 648 like our friend said but the first 57 to sport winglets in the fleet would be one of the 75Es.

[Edited 2012-08-14 19:56:13]
What gets measured gets done.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:41 am

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 10):

All Delta has to do is pay for the STC. Not a big deal.
New airliners.net web site sucks....
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DocLightning
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:10 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 12):
Not currently being certified means exactly nothing. Because they're not currently certified doesn't mean they CAN'T I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. DL is the only one with the type so they will have to pay for the STC process. Apparently, they are ready to do so to get them certified. 10 or more years of flying is a LOT of time to get your money back.

Also, the certification process can be simplified given that an identical type varying only with different powerplants is certified.

The 753's are among the most recent 757s built, so it makes perfect sense to winglet them, especially given some of the longer routes that they fly.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:54 am

Quoting B757forever (Reply 22):
Maybe I don't understand what you are saying This photo shows 648 with winglets and a wavy gravy paint scheme.

Yeah I already posted links to 2 Wavey Gravy 757s 648 and 660. The question we were discussing was whether 648 and 660 were given winglets prior to the current paint scheme or if they were given winglets later on but not repainted while given winglets. FlyASA determined Ship 648 got winglets in late 2008 or so, but didn't get a repaint until later. There is also 660, which I assume got winglets post new scheme but didn't get repainted until later.
 
B757Forever
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RE: How Many DL 757-232 Wingletted? ......more Coming?

Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 23):
His question is, did any DL 757 sport winglets before the new paint scheme came out

Thanks. Got it. I guess I need glasses. Look at my profile and you'll understand  
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