QF175
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Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:02 am

Welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread # 63. In the previous thread, the following points were discussed/raised:

* Qantas has quietly dropped its once-weekly 737-800 service from Sydney to Newman
* Hawaiian Airlines announces Honolulu - Brisbane services commencing November 2012
* Qatar Airways Perth inaugural flight touches down
* QantasLink opens a new state-of-the-art departure lounge at Brisbane Airport
* Qantas confirms extra services to Manila and Santiago over the Christmas period
* Qatar Airways possibly planning an alliance with Qantas
* Emirates announces flights to Adelaide commencing November 2012
* Virgin Australia places order for 23 737MAX
* Future Qantas International network
* Air Niugini confirms it will fly its new 737 to Sydney and Brisbane
* Qantas to install new pivotal bins on its 737 aircraft
* Qantas to deploy iPads to its pilots
* Qantas announces new closed charter services to Christmas Creek in Western Australia
* QantasLink announces extra Q400 flights from Melbourne, Tasmania and Canberra
* Perth Airport terminal construction
* Singapore Airlines confirms it will introduce a second A380 on MEL services later in 2012
* Qantas unveils its new marketing campaign - you're the reason we fly
* Qantas' operations to Santiago
* Air India reportedly puts forward RFPs for a range of services in MEL and SYD
* Virgin Australia's coast-to-coast product
* John Borghetti's performance as Virgin Australia CEO
* Diversions at various Airports due to the usual winter fog
* Qantas management
* Malaysia Airlines announces it will introduce the A380 to Melbourne on its KUL services in 2013
* Qantas announces a return to Gold Coast, with thrice daily 73H services commencing 28OCT12
* Etihad Airways reportedly set to announce an increase in Brisbane services to daily in 2013
* Brisbane Airport growth for 2011-2012 financial year

Australian Aviation Thread # 62
 
QF175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:07 am

Virgin Australia will drop its thrice weekly service from Brisbane to Hamilton in New Zealand effective 27OCT12. The Airline has cited poor loads for the move (hardly a surprise given Hamilton is a little over 100km from Auckland Airport). Virgin Australia dropped its nonstop Sydney - Hamilton services back in 2010.
 
Julian773
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:49 pm

Heard Go Cat 8172, Tiger 320 out of ML on ML centre before. After looking it up on flightaware saw its going to Changi via Darwin.
Anyone know why its going over there?

Cheers
 
thegeek
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:11 am

I know it's a little early, but how is the SYD-DFW going daily doing loadings and revenue wise so far?
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:41 am

Virgin have announced BNE-PER flights going to 19 a week up from 16.Weekdays will be 3 flights in each direction.Extra days are Tuesday,Wednesday and Thursdays.

Also from next month Brisbane's cross runway will be closed for 20 weeks as works need to be carried out to make it into a new taxiway for the new runway 01L/19R.Work on clearing for the NPR will also start in September.

BNE is experiencing record aircraft movements with over 18,600 movements in July.Weekdays are now between 630-680 a day whilst weekends are a lot quieter around 440 and 490 respectively.
tourismman
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:46 am

EY daily 332 BNE-SIN-AUH from FEB 2013.

CZ daily BNE from NOV 2012:
4x PEK-CAN-BNE-CAN-PEK + 3x CAN-BNE-CNS-CAN
BNE-CNS-CAN will be an evening departure
 
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eta unknown
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:51 am

EY daily 332 BNE-SIN-AUH from FEB 2013.

CZ daily BNE from NOV 2012:
4x PEK-CAN-BNE-CAN-PEK + 3x CAN-BNE-CNS-CAN
BNE-CNS-CAN will be an evening departure op by 332. PEK-CAN-BNE currently operated by 333.
 
vhebb
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:06 pm

Looks like in addition to the planned QF B763 upgrade, 16 of the original B73Hs will be upgraded:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nat...again/story-fndo317g-1226453285938

Anyone have any more details?

Seems strange to only upgrade 16 of the "older" B73Hs, also no mention of adding seat back IFE to match the newer B73H fleet?

Strange.....

Cheers
 
smi0006
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting vhebb (Reply 7):
Looks like in addition to the planned QF B763 upgrade, 16 of the original B73Hs will be upgraded:

I would assume the whole domestic fleet; 767, 73H and A330s will get the new carpets, seat covers, bulkheads etc. Except the 734s that should be leaving very soon. Hopefully we will see some photos next Thursday, perhaps even a glimpse at the longer term plans for the A330s.

I would have thought the 16 73H mentioned her would be getting IFE plus the bigger overhead bins. How many 73Hs does QF have with and without PTVs excluding the Jetconnect ones?

Also a nice bit of an upgrade: QF will be offering free wifi in their five biggest domestic terminals:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-of...pper&utm_campaign=home-flipper

Will be interesting to see the second phase of their marketing program- 91 reasons to fly with us. The above article mentions a few double ups... awkward and poor marketing.
http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...:youre-the-reason-we-fly-2:lang:en
 
eaglefarm4
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:55 am

Virgin's first ATR-72-600 has landed in BNE with a 2nd one only a month away.This will give them 8 ATR'S.

Expect more routes to be announced shortly within QLD.
tourismman
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting vhebb (Reply 7):
Seems strange to only upgrade 16 of the "older" B73Hs, also no mention of adding seat back IFE to match the newer B73H fleet?

These are probably the original batch taken over from American and delivered back in 2002/2003. Out of all of the 738's they would need a refresh and modernisation although it wouldn' surprise me to see it done to all of the Domestic 738's in due course.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 8):
767, 73H and A330s will get the new carpets, seat covers, bulkheads etc.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that. The domestic A330's are relatively new so it'd probably make more sense to do it to the A330's coming from Jetstar back to QF domestic first. I'd also assume this would only affect the few 767's that will remain in the domestic fleet in the long run. Makes no sense spending $$$'s on a plane you're going to retire in a couple of years. But I assume we'll know alot more Thursday at QF's profit announcement.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 8):
How many 73Hs does QF have with and without PTVs excluding the Jetconnect ones?

According to my count 15 of the domestic 738's have PTV's excluding Jetconnect. QF group have 60 total, including 8 at Jetconnect so 15 of 52 domestic birds have PTV's.
 
smi0006
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:32 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 10):
I wouldn't necessarily assume that. The domestic A330's are relatively new so it'd probably make more sense to do it to the A330's coming from Jetstar back to QF domestic first

This is true I had forgotten about them eventually returning to QF. The domestic CEO Lyle is also on record stating that the A330s would receive and upgraded and consistency product, maybe they will hold out for this.

I hope the herald sun got their descriptions wrong, charcoal seat covers in business is too similar to the black of Jetstar and Virgin, and is still very dull. I think the dark red looked great on the pictures I saw on the 738s.

Good to finally see some consistency flowing and upgrades flowing into the domestic fleet.
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:07 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 11):
I hope the herald sun got their descriptions wrong, charcoal seat covers in business is too similar to the black of Jetstar and Virgin, and is still very dull. I think the dark red looked great on the pictures I saw on the 738s.

It looks miserable IMO -- AusBT has a story with renderings here. Going for the charcoal will probably save them a lot of money though -- they will be the same as what is used on the JQ seats. They might even reuse the old covers as JQ A330's get revamped for QF domestic (presumably with the new red leather seats).

I don't like the armrests either, and those Y seats look suspiciously similar to VA/DJ...
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:11 am

http://melbourneairport.com.au/News-...tal-passenger-growth-in-july-.html

Melbourne Airport has recorded a 5 per cent increase in total passenger numbers during July compared to the same period last year.

Domestic passenger numbers increased by 6 per cent to 1,929,506 passengers, reflecting the recovery in domestic activity following the disruptions at this time last year.

Melbourne Airport CEO, Chris Woodruff, said “Despite the challenges over the last two years, domestic airlines are providing more capacity and services. The recent announcements by Virgin Australia and Qantas to increase their A330 services between Melbourne and Perth are a great example of this. And it’s great for Victorian travellers.”

International passengers increased by 1 per cent on the same period last year.

China continued to lead international passenger growth, with an 8 per cent increase. Other markets, such as India, Vietnam, Sri Lanka and New Zealand also grew.

“We are in ongoing discussions with our airline customers about introducing more direct services to Melbourne, to bring more international visitors to Melbourne and Australia, and to provide Victorians with more travelling options.”

“Just last week we welcomed an additional daily A380 service from Singapore Airlines and in October, Emirates will introduce their twentieth A380 into service here in Melbourne. Later in the year, Jetstar will also reintroduce direct services to Hawaii,” said Mr Woodruff.

"Our investment in terminals, aerobridges and baggage handling systems to serve the A380, is paying dividends with Melbourne becoming a leading A380 destination. We’ll continue to invest in infrastructure to provide more capacity for domestic and international airlines, including ongoing planning for our new Southern Precinct domestic terminal.”

------

http://melbourneairport.com.au/News-...lias-additional-a330-services.html

Melbourne Airport has welcomed Virgin Australia’s introduction of additional A330 services between Melbourne and Perth.

Melbourne Airport CEO, Chris Woodruff said, “Melbourne Airport is delighted Virgin Australia is expanding its A330s services on its Melbourne-Perth route.”

“As one of Virgin Australia’s busiest domestic airports, the additional A330 services will increase Virgin’s capacity on the Melbourne-Perth route by nearly 30 per cent, strengthening Melbourne’s status as a premier destination for Australian travellers. It’s a great vote of confidence in the Melbourne market,” said Mr Woodruff.

Virgin Australia will commence operating additional A330s on its Melbourne-Perth service from 21 September, increasing to five daily A330 services.

“In partnership with Virgin Australia, we are continuing work on the refurbishment of our Terminal 3. Works are progressing well and we’ll continue to work with Virgin Australia to minimise disruptions to passengers. We look forward to unveiling the more contemporary and modern space for travelers at the end of the year,” said Mr Woodruff.
 
smi0006
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:27 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
It looks miserable IMO -- AusBT has a story with renderings here. Going for the charcoal will probably save them a lot of money though -- they will be the same as what is used on the JQ seats. They might even reuse the old covers as JQ A330's get revamped for QF domestic (presumably with the new red leather seats).

I don't like the armrests either, and those Y seats look suspiciously similar to VA/DJ...

Yeah not a fan, I don't understand why they didn't go for red leather, has that idea been shelved completly- Still a drab cabin, international red seat covers would have looked good. Nor am I fam of the print on the bulkheads and curtains...

The QF press release did states:

“We will also refresh the fleet’s cabin interiors with a contemporary design that includes leather seat covers in Business and a new look and feel in the Economy cabin. Other enhancements include new carpet, lighting, curtains and dividers. The first of 16 aircraft to be refreshed will enter into service in October.

In addition to new aircraft deliveries (one A330 and two B737-800s this year), the B767 refresh forms part of a wider strategic investment across the domestic customer experience including enhancements to ground operations and further upgrades to other domestic aircraft over the next few years."

I found that interesting, I thought all future A330s would be heading to SIN or JQ. How many domestic A332s does this bring them up to now? Wouldn't hurt if they did a swap to bring the JQ ones fitted with PTVs to QF and replace them with the non-PTV QF ones.
 
vhebb
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:48 am

Here is th official B767 upgrade press release:

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...a-releases/aug-2012/5438/global/en

The original article about 16 B73Hs is incorrect it is actually 16 B763s that will be upgraded. 7 B763s (I assume the RR ones) will be retired meaning all remaining B763s (16) will be the upgraded ones.

The press release also states that other domestic aircraft will also be upgraded, I can only assume this means the older non PTV B73Hs?

Thanks

[Edited 2012-08-20 02:02:47]

[Edited 2012-08-20 02:03:28]
 
brad330
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:08 am

Will QF unify the configurations of the 763's?
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:29 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 14):
Yeah not a fan, I don't understand why they didn't go for red leather, has that idea been shelved completly- Still a drab cabin, international red seat covers would have looked good. Nor am I fam of the print on the bulkheads and curtains...

I'm hoping that the approaching retirement of these planes means that they are doing this refresh on a very small budget, and that the longer term style will be different. They are looking for maximum impact, which this will probably achieve with the money they have to spend.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 14):
I found that interesting, I thought all future A330s would be heading to SIN or JQ. How many domestic A332s does this bring them up to now? Wouldn't hurt if they did a swap to bring the JQ ones fitted with PTVs to QF and replace them with the non-PTV QF ones.

There are four domestic A332's -- two with the older 2-2-2 J layout (with the same seats as the Jetconnect 737's), and two with the newer 2-3-2 J layout (same as the two most recent JQ planes). The Y seats are identical on both (some slight layout difference to cram more in the newer configuration), and all seats have PTV's.

It will be interesting to see how this last aircraft is configured -- the existing 2-3-2 layout (not popular), or the red leather seats in 2-2-2. This will be a better indication of what will happen down the track.
 
maxter
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:27 pm

An interesting little tidbit, some new renders of the Virgin pier for PER...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...ts-look-at-best-in-airport-design/

Apologies if it has already been discussed.
maxter
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
I'm hoping that the approaching retirement of these planes means that they are doing this refresh on a very small budget, and that the longer term style will be different. They are looking for maximum impact, which this will probably achieve with the money they have to spend.

That's what I'm hoping as well! The Red Leather does look much better!

Quoting maxter (Reply 18):
An interesting little tidbit, some new renders of the Virgin pier for PER...

Interesting. It'll also be interesting to see what they do in the old Domestic terminal once Virgin has moved over into it's new home. Do they, and Qantas, spend more dollars on re-configuring it into one terminal or do they leave it as is and divide up the Qantas services somehow? More to the point, it'll be interesting to see what they do in relation to having 1 security checkpoint for all QF pax because that'll hamper connections unless they only have the one checkpoint.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 17):
or the red leather seats in 2-2-2. This will be a better indication of what will happen down the track.

Let us hope Red Leather 2-2-2. They'll need that config to remain competitve with VA anyway. On a side note, and correct me if I'm wrong, but on the one's that are 2-3-2, aren't the middle seats in the 3 blocked off so they're effectively 2-2-2 anyway?
 
vhebb
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:50 am

Quote:
Will QF unify the configurations of the 763's?

Yes... The remaining couple of B763s with the old intl style 25J cabins will be converted to the 30J domestic style config during the upgrade.

As HNL is the only B763 international route I'm guessing it will go A330 eventually, or JQ only route?

The 16 B763s getting upgraded are all the existing GE powered birds OGG thru OGV.

The 7 ex BA B763s will be retired.

Thanks
 
vhebb
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:58 am

A few other recent Qantas changes:

*Refreshed Qantas website has been launched at www.qantas.com.au

*Free Qantas domestic terminal wifi will be launched in SYD, MEL, BNE and PER from the end of the year:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-offer-free-airport-wifi

*Qantas CityFlyer branding is being phased out by the end of the year. CityFlyer signage and branding is already being removed from domestic terminals, and CityFlyer references during announcements have ceased.

Cheers
 
carryon
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting maxter (Reply 18):
An interesting little tidbit, some new renders of the Virgin pier for PER...

It seems the current Gate 1 of the int terminal, apron position 51, will become Gate 51 and potentially an exclusively Emirates gate. The images are heavy with Emirates branding, and the gate is also situated next to the carrier's airport lounge.

Additional images here http://www.carry-on.com.au/airports/...h-airport-airport-design-unlikely/

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 19):
Do they, and Qantas, spend more dollars on re-configuring it into one terminal or do they leave it as is and divide up the Qantas services somehow?

Perhaps the current Terminal 3 will become a dedicated QantasLink terminal?

Virgin Australia will also replace EMB190 aircraft with ATR72s on the Sydney - Albury route.

[Edited 2012-08-26 05:47:55]
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting vhebb (Reply 21):
Qantas CityFlyer branding is being phased out by the end of the year. CityFlyer signage and branding is already being removed from domestic terminals, and CityFlyer references during announcements have ceased.

What are the implications for this with regards to product offering? Are they going to roll out the CityFlyer product network wide?

Quoting vhebb (Reply 20):
or JQ only route?

I hope not, at that point I'd think that QF management has finally lost it. I was under the impression that HNL was the unsung star of the international network (with JNB)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
smi0006
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 23):

What are the implications for this with regards to product offering? Are they going to roll out the CityFlyer product network wide?

What is the distinctive product offering? News papers and free beer and wine week days after 4 (which is also offered on all QFLink service too).

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 23):

I hope not, at that point I'd think that QF management has finally lost it. I was under the impression that HNL was the unsung star of the international network (with JNB)

Hopefully with a new domestic A330 headed our way soon this will free some A332 international flying off domestic and it can be sent to HNL!
 
ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting carryon (Reply 22):
It seems the current Gate 1 of the int terminal, apron position 51, will become Gate 51 and potentially an exclusively Emirates gate. The images are heavy with Emirates branding, and the gate is also situated next to the carrier's airport lounge.

Apart from EK, the only other A380 operator I see in PER is SQ, which is still very unlikely seeing as it's only a 5 hour flight. So it makes sense to use alot of EK branding at the gate.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting vhebb (Reply 15):
Here is th official B767 upgrade press release:

http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airl...a-releases/aug-2012/5438/global/en

The original article about 16 B73Hs is incorrect it is actually 16 B763s that will be upgraded. 7 B763s (I assume the RR ones) will be retired meaning all remaining B763s (16) will be the upgraded ones.

and there is my proof finally released...

Quoting vhebb (Reply 20):
The 7 ex BA B763s will be retired.

        

EK413
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Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:16 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 26):
and there is my proof finally released...

Interestingly for what they've said will be replaced they're only spending the grand total of $20million. ($1.25 million per plane).

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 25):
Apart from EK, the only other A380 operator I see in PER is SQ, which is still very unlikely seeing as it's only a 5 hour flight. So it makes sense to use alot of EK branding at the gate.

I don't really see SQ as an A380 operator to PER. Not when their A330's and 77W's can easily service the market at the frequency level they currently have. And, as you say, for 5 hours it hardly seems worth firing up an A380.
 
tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:29 am

SQ unlikely to serve PER with A380 unless they order more. They have just about received the final A380 ordered (19) and don't have much availability given they will be using the A380 to slot constrained airports like FRA, LHR and SYD. If they do a follow-up order, this may change but PER wouldn't top of their list.
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qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 19):
on the one's that are 2-3-2, aren't the middle seats in the 3 blocked off so they're effectively 2-2-2 anyway?

Yes they are (with tacky plastic contraptions that look like booster seats), though the width of the seats/aisles is narrower than in a true 2-2-2 configuration (though the difference doesn't feel that big).

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 23):
I hope not, at that point I'd think that QF management has finally lost it. I was under the impression that HNL was the unsung star of the international network (with JNB)

QF has a tricky decision to make with HNL. As it stands, their expenses are relatively pretty low (ie using cheap/fully owned 767's which are pretty efficient for the route) and moving to A332's might push core costs up to an unprofitable level (ie high lease/repayments, higher trip cost etc). JQ has proven that they can profitably run the route with A330's, so it might simply make more sense for them to take over, potentially less than daily from SYD along with the announced flights from MEL and potentially BNE/AKL.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 27):
Interestingly for what they've said will be replaced they're only spending the grand total of $20million. ($1.25 million per plane).

Does that cost include fitting the wireless IFE systems? That will be a big chunk of the expense if it does.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:45 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 29):
Yes they are (with tacky plastic contraptions that look like booster seats), though the width of the seats/aisles is narrower than in a true 2-2-2 configuration (though the difference doesn't feel that big).

Maybe they'll do a re-fit of these once the 787's start to arrive at JQ? It would make sense to gear up to do a refresh of all of the domestic A332's at that stage so they have a standard product on board.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 29):
Does that cost include fitting the wireless IFE systems? That will be a big chunk of the expense if it does.

It was an all up cost and wasn't broken down so not sure what the component costs are. Maybe someone closer to the action can comment?
 
thegeek
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 29):
QF has a tricky decision to make with HNL. As it stands, their expenses are relatively pretty low (ie using cheap/fully owned 767's which are pretty efficient for the route) and moving to A332's might push core costs up to an unprofitable level

An A332 would be able to haul more freight on the route though, increasing revenue potential. I think this 767 product has to go from international as it tarnishes the brand.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:55 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 31):
An A332 would be able to haul more freight on the route though, increasing revenue potential. I think this 767 product has to go from international as it tarnishes the brand.

By the looks of what is happening to the 767 fleet it will be gone with this refresh. Maybe they'll keep using the 767 but in a domestic configuration with Q streaming Ipads and full service? For economy pax it'll be a step up, in business it'll be identical to the JQ hard product but with QF full service.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:11 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 31):
I think this 767 product has to go from international as it tarnishes the brand.

There was word going around earlier in the year that the SYD - HNL service would be upgraded to a A332 but nothing has materialised...

With all the International route changes there must be a spare frame to operate the popular holiday destination...

EK413
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tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:19 am

Page 15 of Results announcement presentation does not mention HNL in future QF int"l routes making me think that HNL will be JQ only very soon.
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zkokq
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:40 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 34):
Page 15 of Results announcement presentation does not mention HNL in future QF int"l routes making me think that HNL will be JQ only very soon

Interesting to see them taking on Hawaiian. I think QF would be stupid to drop this with HA using their 767's on the route.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:54 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 35):
HA using their 767's on the route.

HA have upgraded to a A332 daily and will be introducing BNE services... If QF drop the HNL and route expect to go head to head with HA utilizing JQ good luck...

EK413
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 29):
QF has a tricky decision to make with HNL. As it stands, their expenses are relatively pretty low (ie using cheap/fully owned 767's which are pretty efficient for the route) and moving to A332's might push core costs up to an unprofitable level (ie high lease/repayments, higher trip cost etc).

True, but we've got to remember that QF's prices to HNL are almost as high as to LAX. I don't have any scientific data to back that up, but choose any day at random and compare the fares to HNL (in both Y and J) to LAX. A couple of times I've even seen J higher than LAX - I'd be pretty miffed if I was paying more for a 767 J than A380!

Obviously this doesn't mean anything of itself, but it does show that there is still demand for a full service airline to HNL. HA are p*$$ing circles around QF on that route right now, and while they have lower operating costs I can't believe that costs alone can explain a difference of 4 weekly flights (+BNE).

I'm don't usually consider myself a JQ basher, but in this case I genuinely believe that QF have been blinded by the words "leisure market" and "JetStar". Those two terms are not - of themselves - directly congruant, especially on a 10 hour flight. If QF were to pull out of HNL I would guess that the vast majority of their passengers would move over to HA and NZ rather than JQ.
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Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 37):
I'm don't usually consider myself a JQ basher, but in this case I genuinely believe that QF have been blinded by the words "leisure market" and "JetStar". Those two terms are not - of themselves - directly congruant, especially on a 10 hour flight. If QF were to pull out of HNL I would guess that the vast majority of their passengers would move over to HA and NZ rather than JQ.

It's an interesting quandry. Certainly it appears as if HNL has been in a holding pattern and it'll be interesting to see if JQ starting MEL-HNL takes people away from the QF SYD service or the JQ SYD service. An upgrade to the A332 would be nice however I fear that the current International config A332's might be a bit premium heavy with 36J vs only 25 in the International 767's. This is where a refresh of the QF International A332's might be in order to reduce them to say 24 Skybed 1's and 230 odd economy seats. That would make them perfect for places like HNL, MNL etc where full service can be justified but you also need the economy seats for the tourists and would actually increase economy seats from 205 in the International 767's to closer to 230.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 37):
True, but we've got to remember that QF's prices to HNL are almost as high as to LAX. I don't have any scientific data to back that up, but choose any day at random and compare the fares to HNL (in both Y and J) to LAX. A couple of times I've even seen J higher than LAX - I'd be pretty miffed if I was paying more for a 767 J than A380!

I have to agree, but the loads to HNL on QF are very high, I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of their more profitable routes (especially with the fact the 763 are 100% owned by QF).

Quoting EK413 (Reply 33):
There was word going around earlier in the year that the SYD - HNL service would be upgraded to a A332 but nothing has materialised

I remember a question was raised about this to QF exec. committee and the answer was along the lines of they were waiting for a spare 330, and once one was available, then they would be introduced to HNL
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 39):
I remember a question was raised about this to QF exec. committee and the answer was along the lines of they were waiting for a spare 330, and once one was available, then they would be introduced to HNL

That's good to hear.

The other thing to keep in the back of your head is that (high cost) BA have a very successful Caribbean network. The stage lengths from the UK are about the same as HNL, and while these flights are (mostly) operated using the lower cost LGW base it does show that there is demand for full service from "premium leisure travellers".
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ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:29 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 37):
If QF were to pull out of HNL I would guess that the vast majority of their passengers would move over to HA and NZ rather than JQ.

As a frequent traveller to HNL, I tried NZ out for the first time this year and I can officially say you'll never find me stepping on board a QF 767 or JQ to HNL ever again!
 
carryon
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:54 am

Virgin Australia has announced a full year tax profit of $22.8 million, and a full year underlying profit before tax of $82.5 million. The airline has also completed its game change programme and is moving to the next phase called "Game On". A new focus will be building the airline loyalty programme membership to 5 million and increasing its international network. Orders will also be placed for either A350s or B787s.

http://www.carry-on.com.au/blog/virgin-aus-profit/
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:22 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 31):
An A332 would be able to haul more freight on the route though, increasing revenue potential

This is true, but a daily JQ A332 has the same freight capacity (perhaps more, if less passenger bags are checked in) as a 4-5 weekly JQ A332 and 2-3 weekly QF A332. It might also be more profitable to carry freight on dedicated freighter services.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 37):
True, but we've got to remember that QF's prices to HNL are almost as high as to LAX.

Very true, and I would find it hard to believe that it is a poorly performing route (predominately for this reason). Economy fares are also significantly higher than JQ, even once you bundle in a meal/baggage etc to bring JQ up to the same service level.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 38):
Certainly it appears as if HNL has been in a holding pattern

And this is what suggests to me that it's a route that's in the balance. If it was such a runaway success (as is suggested by the high fares), then surely they would be trying to gradually push some more capacity towards the route while sustaining the higher fare level.

We also have to remember that the A332's have 11 more J seats than the 763's (a 44% increase in supply), so it would be reasonable to assume that fares would drop significantly if QF wanted to sustain existing load factor.

I would argue that the route only works for QF because the fares are kept so high due to undersupply. Adding capacity, while upping costs, would threaten their yield and profitability. The question now is whether they can find a balance between what they have today, and what an A330 would offer.

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 39):
I have to agree, but the loads to HNL on QF are very high, I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of their more profitable routes (especially with the fact the 763 are 100% owned by QF).

Just because it's profitable on a 767 doesn't mean that it will be profitable on an A330. If it was clear that using A330's would sustain existing profitability (and perhaps even increase it due to additional pax and cargo capacity), then they would have done the switch years ago before all the international A330's suddenly became domestic planes.
 
thegeek
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:59 am

FWIW, it doesn't look like there is much demand for air freight on SYD-HNL - May 2012 only had 316 tonnes, counting both directions. SYD-LAX had 2116 tonnes for comparison.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:30 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 43):
We also have to remember that the A332's have 11 more J seats than the 763's (a 44% increase in supply), so it would be reasonable to assume that fares would drop significantly if QF wanted to sustain existing load factor.

That's true. As I said above, I wonder if it makes more sense to re-configure the current A332's to have less premium seats, higher economy count for these sorts of routes. With the hops they're doing to places like CGK, MNL and on PER-SIN I'm sure they would be better config'd for the market with the reduction. But maybe that'll wait until the A332's start coming back from JQ which will also need a refit.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:58 am

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 39):
I remember a question was raised about this to QF exec. committee and the answer was along the lines of they were waiting for a spare 330, and once one was available, then they would be introduced to HNL

For the love of me I have never understood why QF continue to shoot them self in the foot by providing an outdated product on the SYD-HNL route while the competition upgrades the equipment... I can't wait to see the introduction of the A332 to the route...

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 41):
never find me stepping on board a QF 767 or JQ to HNL ever again!

and if the A332 is introduced would that change your mind...

EK413
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qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:25 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 45):

They were a bit unlucky with configuring the A332's, given that they settled on a pretty J-heavy config just before the economy went downhill. Perhaps something like a 24J/28W/220Y config could be done after the 747's are finished, to last until the end of this decade once QF starts taking 787's and can return these planes to domestic. That would work well for routes like HNL and those that you list... I'm not holding my breath though.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 46):
why QF continue to shoot them self in the foot by providing an outdated product on the SYD-HNL route while the competition upgrades the equipment...

Yet the route is performing well by all accounts...
 
ben175
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:02 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 46):
and if the A332 is introduced would that change your mind...

Probably not, as it's almost impossible to get Frequent Flier seats on QF (or JQ for that matter!)
I got seats PER-AKL-HNL using SQ KrisFlyer points on first attempt with no problems whatsoever.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread # 63

Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:06 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 47):

& for how long will it continue...?

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 48):

Valid point...

EK413
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