olddominion727
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IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:44 pm

I was reading an article in the SF Chronicle last week about how OW is really trying to get another international presence in SFO to take on *A. IF that happens analysts were saying ST would need to woo AZ back to SFO to compete against them both... Of course *A is the largest operator at SFO but ST isn't too shabby, ST flies to HNL, TYO, PAR & AMS n/s from SFO, with AZ they would add MIL or ROM... which would be great service.

OW is hardly represented with only 3 international destinations: TYO, HKG, LON... IB/AB would make it a smidge more competitive out of SFO but would that take away from 2x daily BA traffic through to continental Europe?

I am curious where IB/AB would get the frames?

Is the one reporter's pipe dream?
 
PHX787
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
with AZ they would add MIL or ROM... which would be great service.

I'm half-surprised that AZ hasn't had any service to FCO from SFO yet. I'd think it would be a good route, load wise. Yield wise (those infamous words) I haven't a clue.
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n782nc
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:59 pm

Not to nitpick but LAN Peru and Air Berlin fly to LIM and DUS respectively as well.

IMO, I don't see OW expanding much beyond what they already have at SFO. Maybe extra frequencies and upguaging by the current carriers, but not much else. If we're lucky maybe a BA A380.

Maybe with the JV in full swing Iberia will take a crack at SFO sometime in the next few years. Quite a few carriers starting/resuming flights into SFO the last couple years...
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olddominion727
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:04 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):

AZ USED TO FLY SFOMIL with a 767 nonstop, I have pics of it. Granted it was about 15 years ago.
 
olddominion727
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:10 am

Quoting N782NC (Reply 2):

you are right about LAN I have a pic somewhere in my personal archive of the 763 with winglets. Does AB fly into SFO? It would make sense for IB to take a crack at it. Really then OW is slightly behind *A (not by the number of cities) but by the continents...

Interesting. Still seems like a pipe dream of a reporter in the travel section... maybe not. I don't believe anything until I see it pull up and park...  

Thanks for the info
 
as739x
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:19 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 4):

AB currently fly's 2 weekly SFO-DUS

AZ will most likely never return. Its a very long low yield market to Italy.

BA In my opinion will fly the A380 seasonally to SFO, when they have enough 380's in the fleet.

LanPeru currently is 5 weekly I believe and doing very well.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
SCL767
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:26 am

LAN Perú operates the route as GRU-LIM-SFO and code-shares with Cathay Pacific at SFO. CX code-shares on LAN's LIM-SFO route and LAN code-shares on Cathay's SFO-HKG service.
 
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legacyins
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:31 am

ST member China Eastern is starting PVG-SFO next April.

OP, can you provide a link to the story. I would be interested in reading it.

[Edited 2012-08-17 17:43:42]
 
SFOA380
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:32 am

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):
AZ will most likely never return. Its a very long low yield market to Italy.

Couldn't be too much worse than LAX. The same was said about the on again / off again start of SK to CPH. We'll see how that does. Judging by the sheer number of Italians in San Francisco and how much they spend...AZ should give SFO a crack.
 
as739x
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:51 am

Quoting sfoa380 (Reply 8):

SK has a huge Star feed now at SFO. There is not much difference between CPH and HEL and Helsinki failed quickly when operated by Finnair. SK will be much more successful.

AZ has tried and failed at SFO. They have more feed and a larger population base in LAX. And the large amount of Italians in SF is not a great argument, example (A) Aer Lingus which had the huge Irish population, a shorter flight then Italy and UA feed and failed. I can be proven wrong, but don't see a return of AZ.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
LONGisland89
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:44 am

What are some of the largest int'l markets not served from SFO?
 
olddominion727
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:36 am

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 10):

I think some of the largest markets would be SAO, ADL, MAA, SIN, SGN, HAN, MEL, MAD, ROM, BRU, TLV... on the whole, I think SFO really does have a great choice of markets. With SJC having the 2nd largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam, I think VN would do wonderfully there, adding another link the ST chain. Correct me if I am wrong, but VN could currently operate one of their A330's or 777's into SJC a few times a week and do quite well. But I think UA would have a FIT if that occurred. Besides, SFO has more of an international draw for connecting traffic. DL could feed VN flights quite nicely in SFO with their 7 or 8 connection cities...
 
bioyuki
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:13 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 11):
Correct me if I am wrong, but VN could currently operate one of their A330's or 777's into SJC a few times a week and do quite well.

VN has never operated in the United States.
Next flight: UA 35/NH 40/UA 876: SFO-KIX-HND-SFO
 
LIPZ
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:15 am

AZ could eventually come back to SFO on a seasonal base (Apr-Oct), the route during the summer should work fine since SFO is one of the largest markets in U.S.A. from Rome (and Italy in general).

AZ used to fly MXP-SFO during late '90s, then they dropped it in 2000 or 2001, I guess it was the longest route with their 767s at the time.
 
Talaier
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:15 am

I know for sure that Spanish institutions are very fond of a direct flight given the increasing traffic arising from the technology business between Spain & SFO (as well as Europe in general). They have been pressuring IB quite a bit to open a direct flight between MAD and SFO for some time.

IMO, with the ATI in place a 3-4x weekly MAD-SFO flight would work given the large feed into Europe (esp. France and Italy) that IB has in its network. However chances of that happening before LAX consolidates itself and reaches at least 1 or 2 extra weekly frequencies and/or AA takes over BOS freeing up an extra plane are slim.
 
UALWN
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:43 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 3):
AZ USED TO FLY SFOMIL with a 767 nonstop, I have pics of it. Granted it was about 15 years ago.
Quoting LIPZ (Reply 13):
AZ used to fly MXP-SFO during late '90s, then they dropped it in 2000 or 2001, I guess it was the longest route with their 767s at the time.

MXP-SFO operated until shortly after 9/11. I lived in San Francisco at the time, and had some friends visiting from Milan the week before 9/11 who came on that flight. They ended up staying with us longer than they intended...
AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/787/AB6/310/32X/330/340/380
 
mfc
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:37 pm

I'm sure IB will fly to SFO once LAX is consolidated and there will be enough fleet available and economics improve. Maybe in 2 or 3 years...
So, we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past
 
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aal151heavy
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:11 pm

If you guys don't mind some self-plugging:


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Ben Wang


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Ben Wang


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Photo © Ben Wang



Ben
 
SCL767
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting aal151heavy (Reply 17):

Here are some good photos of LA2809 departing SFO for LIM and GRU:


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Photo © Ben Wang


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Ben Wang

 
KaiTak747
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 12):
I think some of the largest markets would be SAO, ADL, MAA, SIN, SGN, HAN, MEL, MAD, ROM, BRU, TLV... on the whole, I think SFO really does have a great choice of markets. With SJC having the 2nd largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam, I think VN would do wonderfully there, adding another link the ST chain. Correct me if I am wrong, but VN could currently operate one of their A330's or 777's into SJC a few times a week and do quite well. But I think UA would have a FIT if that occurred. Besides, SFO has more of an international draw for connecting traffic. DL could feed VN flights quite nicely in SFO with their 7 or 8 connection cities...

I agree, that is a logical first destination in the US for VT. East coast I would imagine is too far. The biggest problem would be filling the front of the plane, I don't think there would be enough premium traffic, instead mostly VFR and tourists.
 
EddieDude
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
ST flies to HNL, TYO, PAR & AMS n/s from SFO, with AZ they would add MIL or ROM... which would be great service.

I think you are forgetting AM's MEX-SFO. AM is a founding SkyTeam member.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
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legacyins
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:08 am

I see the growth of Sky Team at SFO more than OneWorld. Delta is now the second largest carrier at SFO, passenger wise. ST has, DL,AF,KL,AM, MU (starting April), KE. I do not forsee AZ returning to SFO. They are only seasonal (?) into LAX.

Star will always be the largest carrier and will continue to grow, IMO.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:23 am

I doubt growing at SFO is a priority for OW but an IB (or any other carrier) MAD-SFO would be a horrible performer. There is pretty much no local market (especially in the premium cabins) despite the connectivity on the MAD end and the length means it burns a lot of fuel. Heck, the jury is still out on MAD-LAX which is a much more lucrative market.
 
mikeology
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RE: IB/AB & AZ Eyeing SFO?

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:02 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):
AB currently fly's 2 weekly SFO-DUS

3 X weekly. Monday, Wednesday & Friday.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
I was reading an article in the SF Chronicle last week about how OW is really trying to get another international presence in SFO to take on *A. IF that happens analysts were saying ST would need to woo AZ back to SFO to compete against them both... Of course *A is the largest operator at SFO but ST isn't too shabby, ST flies to HNL, TYO, PAR & AMS n/s from SFO, with AZ they would add MIL or ROM... which would be great service.

Link to article? Can't find on SFGate

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