xtra1
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Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:27 pm

Thought I'll share these old CAAC 747SP publicity pics, circa 1980:-

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/xtra1/caac1.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/xtra1/caac7.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/xtra1/caac3.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/xtra1/caac4.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/xtra1/caac6.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/xtra1/caac10.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/xtra1/caac2.jpg
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:04 pm

The CAAC 747SP's were regularly scheduled at SFO. I used to see their presence at SFO all the time.
 
fly2yyz
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:05 pm

Gorgeous! Thanks for sharing!
 
xtra1
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
The CAAC 747SP's were regularly scheduled at SFO. I used to see their presence at SFO all the time.

The initial CAAC schedule to SFO and JFK.

 
flywrite
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:51 pm

Fantastic ramp shot of the era, showing Trident, 707s and IL-62. Thanks for sharing!
 
madog
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:02 am

I love these old photos. It shows how much china has grown in air travel compared to the 80's when they've started opened up. These days all we see are Boeings and airbuses, which is rather boring.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:07 am

Quoting xtra1 (Thread starter):
Thought I'll share these old CAAC 747SP publicity pics, circa 1980:-

Just curious where you found the photos?
 
26point2
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:38 am

Interesting old pics. I remember those old "air hose" earphones. You had to hold them into the ears to hear anything just as the woman in the photo has figured out.

Was this the same a/c that lost control over the Pacific? Did a couple of barrel tools if I remember and the crew threw the gear down well above Vlo and subsequently tore the gear doors off which then took out half the horizontal stab. Same one? I saw it sitting at SFO for a while.

Also, first time I have seen the configuration with the wall along the seat rows. What is behind this wall?
 
Viscount724
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:45 am

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 7):
Was this the same a/c that lost control over the Pacific? Did a couple of barrel tools if I remember and the crew threw the gear down well above Vlo and subsequently tore the gear doors off which then took out half the horizontal stab. Same one? I saw it sitting at SFO for a while.

That was China Airlines (CI, Taiwan), not Air China (CA). Photo of the CI 747SP after that event at SFO below.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19850219-0

 
WestWing
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:06 am

What were the panels with foggy mountains next to the orange seats for? Was there a crew rest area behind them?
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
codc10
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:17 am

Quoting WestWing (Reply 9):
What were the panels with foggy mountains next to the orange seats for? Was there a crew rest area behind them?

It appears that there is a galley installed lengthwise, similar to present-day TG 747s.
 
WestWing
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:27 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 10):
a galley installed lengthwise

Oh, yes. Thank you. One can see an aircraft door and exit sign in the photograph of the galley.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
SQA350
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:20 am

I flew on that bird B-2442 in October of 1994 from ZRH to PEK. It was a very exciting trip for me back then, especially as it was the SP. Service though was quite basic.
"No more window seats in business class, sir!" "Any in economy? Yes? Then downgrade me!"
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:35 am

I can remember seeing CAAC 747SP at Melbourne back in the early 90s, I often woundered why they had the same livery as Aeroflot only difference was having the Chinese flag on the tail and not the old Soviet flag on the tail.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:39 am

Ha! Oh the irony of a communist airline offering first class, distinct from economy. Love it. And those fantastic wall paintings.
 
palmjet
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:21 am

Brilliant pics -thanks for this.

Yes, it's amazing seeing that tarmac shot how far China's commercial aviation industry has changed, in such a relatively short space of time.

P/jet
Eastern - Number One To The Sun
 
xtra1
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:26 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Just curious where you found the photos?

From an early CAAC in-flight magazine . Kept it since I toured Chna as a child, with my parents in the late 1970/early 1980s.

[Edited 2012-08-19 03:32:00]
 
ardian
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:08 am

The wall paintings are beautiful! I wish more carriers these days took the liberty to add a bit more specialty inside their planes. Nowadays it all looks very plain, generic and boring.
 
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flylku
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:03 pm

Best part of A.net is sharing this type of thing.

It is my understanding that the SP had a range advantage for a short period of time. What was the time-frame? What non-stop routes did it make possible. What aircraft usurped its range advantage? This is not a quiz, I really want to know.
...are we there yet?
 
aquariusHKG
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:04 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 18):
It is my understanding that the SP had a range advantage for a short period of time. What was the time-frame? What non-stop routes did it make possible. What aircraft usurped its range advantage? This is not a quiz, I really want to know.

I didn't look up the specific date, but the timeframe when SP is the longest range aircraft is between its first flight ~1975/1976 to when the 747-200B have enough performance updates that it can perform most of the SP's route.

Some routes opened by 747SP are:

JFK - TYO (by PA)
SYD - SFO (by QF)
JFK - THR (by IR)
(not 100% sure) HKG - SFO (by PA)
JNB - Europe (by SA, long range over the Atlantic as the flight cannot fly over the Africa continent due to the Apartheid)
 
CX711
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:20 pm

I remember that PA flew the 747SP on SFO-HKG non stop (PA005/006) from at least 1976 to the mid 1980's. I do not think there was a non stop flight on the 747-200 until much later. I remember Braniff did the Pacific crossing to HKG in the late 70s, and it may also have been with the 747SP. CX introduced a HKG-YVR non-stop flight (747-200B) in the early 80s, and UA the HKG-SEA route in a DC10-30. These of course are shorter journeys.

The PA005/006 was a true game changer, as all flights from SFO-HKG before then required a stopover, generally in Tokyo. It was also a bit touch and go in the westward direction, as winter winds meant it frequently having to make an unscheduled technical stop in Okinawa or Taipei. My father who took those flights in the late 70s told me that there was a short introductory talk on the flight given by PA staff at SFO departure lounge before boarding, and that they weighed each passenger at check-in.
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 18):
It is my understanding that the SP had a range advantage for a short period of time. What was the time-frame? What non-stop routes did it make possible. What aircraft usurped its range advantage? This is not a quiz, I really want to know.

The 747SP wasn't matched in terms of range until the 747-400 came along in 1989. The -400 also had the benefit of being able to carry more passengers what with the stretched upper deck and the standard 231 foot fuselage. That pretty much spelled the dealth knell for the 747SP. Some routes that seem routine today, such as Lax-Syd or Jfk-Jnb could only be operated nonstop with the 747SP. The extra range came from shrinking the fuselage from 231 feet to 184 feet, so, shorter than an A330-200 but with the same wing and engines as the 747-200.

It's amazing how far technology has come. 22 years ago, when the 74L was just starting to be replaced, the notion of a twin capable of flying from Lax-Syd or Atl-Jnb would have been unthinkable.
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
xtra1
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 10):
It appears that there is a galley installed lengthwise, similar to present-day TG 747s.

Typical 747SP config:-
 
by738
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:00 pm

The engines look massive in the first night time ramps shot.
 
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deltacto
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:33 pm

Fascinating website all about the 747-SP

http://747sp.com/
 
Viscount724
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 10):
Quoting WestWing (Reply 9):
What were the panels with foggy mountains next to the orange seats for? Was there a crew rest area behind them?

It appears that there is a galley installed lengthwise, similar to present-day TG 747s.

And KL 744s and 74Ms combis. Pan Am 747SPs also had the longitudinal galley option. TWA's SP's did not.

KL current seat maps showing the lengthwise forward galley. Their 747-300s and later GE-powered -200s (converted to -200SUDs) were the same
https://www.klm.com/travel/ch_en/prepare_for_travel/on_board/seating_plans/b747.htm
https://www.klm.com/travel/ch_en/prepare_for_travel/on_board/seating_plans/747-400Combi.htm
 
DID747
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:52 am

747SP VS 747 classic.

Waimanalo
 
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Loran
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:06 am

Fantastic pictures, thanks for sharing. I wish I had a time machine to join a flight.

Quoting aquariusHKG (Reply 19):
Some routes opened by 747SP are:

JFK - TYO (by PA)
SYD - SFO (by QF)
JFK - THR (by IR)
(not 100% sure) HKG - SFO (by PA)
JNB - Europe (by SA, long range over the Atlantic as the flight cannot fly over the Africa continent due to the Apartheid)

I recall Pan Am also operated LAX-SYD or SFO-SYD, which was a designated 747 SP route.
A former PA captain I know said they sometimes got towed to the runway threshold to save as much fuel as possible. Sounds like this route was close to the limits for the SP.

Even today's United 744 operating LAX-SYD is weight restricted, I think they block about 50 seats or so...
703 717 727 732-9 747 757 767 777 788 AB2/6 310 318-321 330 340 380 D8M D91/3/5 D1C M11 M81-90 L10 AN2/3/F/4/6/28/74/40/48/58 IL1/8/6/7/W/9/4 TU3/5/2 YK4/2
 
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United_fan
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting Loran (Reply 27):
I recall Pan Am also operated LAX-SYD or SFO-SYD, which was a designated 747 SP route.
A former PA captain I know said they sometimes got towed to the runway threshold to save as much fuel as possible. Sounds like this route was close to the limits for the SP.

Even today's United 744 operating LAX-SYD is weight restricted, I think they block about 50 seats or so...

I read that QF's RR engines got better 'mileage ' than PA's P&W's. I read that QF swapped their 4 best engines to the SP's on that route. I read that PA had to divert enroute while QF rarely did.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
tonyban
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting WestWing (Reply 9):

What were the panels with foggy mountains next to the orange seats for? Was there a crew rest area behind them?

There is a galley on the other side. This is just behind the first class section.
 
The777Man
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting Loran (Reply 27):
Even today's United 744 operating LAX-SYD is weight restricted, I think they block about 50 seats or so...

That vaaries from day to day. Most of the time, no weight restrictions, sometimes 10-20 seats but very rarely is there a need to go with 30 or over seats blocked.

The777Man
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting xtra1 (Reply 3):
The initial CAAC schedule to SFO and JFK.

Yep, they eventually added LAX, in addition to JFK, as a tag-on a few days a week to SFO.
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting flywrite (Reply 4):
Fantastic ramp shot of the era, showing Trident, 707s and IL-62.

Here, here!

That is more or less my dream fleet! They even had Viscounts back then too. A few sectors flying around China back then would have made me VERY happy!

Superb, rare photos. Thanks for sharing with us.
 
DID747
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:38 am

Another very rare photo of old Shangai airport with 2 CAAC 747SP.

Waimanalo
 
DID747
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:22 pm

Anymore info and pictures???
Waimanalo
 
humanitarian
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:37 pm

I flew on one of these CAAC 747SP's sometime in the late 1980's from PEK to HKG. It was only half full and the F/A's spent much of the flight sleeping with newspapers covering their faces in the back of the plane. Also flew on one of their 707-320's from Tianjin to HKG and on a 767-200 from PEK to NRT around the same time frame. All interesting flights.
 
vincewy
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:11 am

Quoting DID747 (Reply 33):
Another very rare photo of old Shangai airport with 2 CAAC 747SP.

FYI, the international flights out of SHA (Hongqiao) still use this same old terminal (called Terminal 1), the difference today, though, is how much the city has grown and rather than lush green environment the surrounding looks like part of the city now.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Caac 747SP , Old Publicity Pics

Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:31 am

Just like the A388 today, it looks like a pair of wings with a fuselage grafted on as an afterthought. Incredible that today's 777-300ER, with two fewer engines and carrying at least 120 more pax, can fly over 1000 nm further. Shows how far fuel burn has come over the years.

The -200B never reached the SP's range. But the SP was well short of the -400 in turn. LAX-SYD and SFO-HKG were certainly weight restricted on the SP. It had comparable range to the A330-200.

[Edited 2012-08-21 22:32:09]